Fully Electric Cars

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ChrisG
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by ChrisG » Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:18 pm

clarethomer wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:34 pm
Charging per the mile seems the approach that I have seen mentioned most but I genuinely don't know how they would do it in reality. How would they know what miles are done.

New cars won't officially report the mileage to the government until they go into a MOT so I can imagine when you get to that point, you could get charged that way but then that brings up issues of when you sell and buy mid point between these - presume you would need to report the mileage on the Sale document and have lease companies be responsible for reporting or ensuring the tax is settled upon the return of a car.

Would it instead use camera technology that exists similarly to how they charge and capture payments for the dartford crossing/clean air zones/Bus Lanes/Congestion charges to capture use of car and time spent? Not sure how they would determine the miles I had done and whether it would charge a flat fee so it works so it doesn't matter whether you had done 100 miles in that area or driven 1mile and parked up for most of the day and driven a mile back out?

Currently charging at a public charger attracts 20% VAT I think compared to 5% at home, so the government are recouping some of that tax back already for the use of the car. Could this see governments seeking to use smart meters or energy companies to find a way of separating your domestic use energy and your car charging energy and increasing the VAT on that element?

Will be interesting to see what they do. Can't imagine they will want to show their hand/discuss it too early at the fear of pushing adoption further out.
Surely they would just use GPS, or a black box telematic box which will send off the odometer data after a set period?

IanMcL
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by IanMcL » Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:11 pm

Hopefully, gas/diesel guzzlers get charged and electric don't!
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clarethomer
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by clarethomer » Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:25 pm

ChrisG wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:18 pm
Surely they would just use GPS, or a black box telematic box which will send off the odometer data after a set period?
I just cant see them expecting for cars to have these added aftermarket and I cant see that this would go down with privacy in mind

Bosscat
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Bosscat » Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:26 pm

clarethomer wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:25 pm
I just cant see them expecting for cars to have these added aftermarket and I cant see that this would go down with privacy in mind
When a Car reaches 3 years old they have Odometers checked in the MOT every year

Pearcey
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Pearcey » Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:40 pm

I’ve recently been looking at PCP deals for a new car and considered an electric car. I was put off by the price and the fact that we have family dotted about around the country so range would be an issue. It’s a shame as I think they’re a good idea.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by dsr » Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:35 pm

clarethomer wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:34 pm
Charging per the mile seems the approach that I have seen mentioned most but I genuinely don't know how they would do it in reality. How would they know what miles are done.
The problems they have with charging per mile, which is probably why they have never done it, is that either they charge flat rate per mile, which is a disproportionate charge to people who live in the country miles from the shops or they charge by some sort of GPS system, which is perceived as an invasion of privacy. Neither is politically popular. Of course, with petrol/diesel cars it isn't needed because fuel duty has the same effect - them as use more, pay more.

GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Jan 11, 2023 11:56 am

In a Pay and display car park near me, there's an EV using the charging point and they've been given a parking fine for not purchasing a Pay and Display parking ticket ...

1968claret
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by 1968claret » Wed Jan 11, 2023 1:51 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Jan 11, 2023 11:56 am
In a Pay and display car park near me, there's an EV using the charging point and they've been given a parking fine for not purchasing a Pay and Display parking ticket ...
Happens a lot this. Just because they are at a charging point doesn’t remove the parking restrictions in place for that area. So if you are in a car park then you abide by the same rules as everyone else in terms of paying, length of stay etc.
On at street charging bays you need to read the signs. Most will limit the stay but you are usually allowed longer (usually around 3 hours) than the standard 40 minutes

BennyD
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by BennyD » Wed Jan 11, 2023 2:09 pm

EVs will be paying VED from next year. This tax will be applied to all EVs, not just the ones bought after the intro date. The great financial ‘claw back’ is gathering pace.

clarethomer
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by clarethomer » Wed Jan 11, 2023 2:09 pm

1968claret wrote:
Wed Jan 11, 2023 1:51 pm
Happens a lot this. Just because they are at a charging point doesn’t remove the parking restrictions in place for that area. So if you are in a car park then you abide by the same rules as everyone else in terms of paying, length of stay etc.
On at street charging bays you need to read the signs. Most will limit the stay but you are usually allowed longer (usually around 3 hours) than the standard 40 minutes
Albeit there are carparks where it does. Like you say, you can't just assume though. Do see a lot of people getting caught out by it though.

GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:22 pm

1968claret wrote:
Wed Jan 11, 2023 1:51 pm
Happens a lot this. Just because they are at a charging point doesn’t remove the parking restrictions in place for that area. So if you are in a car park then you abide by the same rules as everyone else in terms of paying, length of stay etc.
On at street charging bays you need to read the signs. Most will limit the stay but you are usually allowed longer (usually around 3 hours) than the standard 40 minutes
I'd never thought about that tbh, but I don't have an EV so...

The ticket had been issued at 9am, so I'm going to guess the person wasn't aware they had to pay and there's nothing on or next to the EV charging point informing them whether they need to pay for parking or not.

clarethomer
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by clarethomer » Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:03 pm

BennyD wrote:
Wed Jan 11, 2023 2:09 pm
EVs will be paying VED from next year. This tax will be applied to all EVs, not just the ones bought after the intro date. The great financial ‘claw back’ is gathering pace.
Is it not April 2025 this starts?
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IanMcL
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by IanMcL » Wed Jan 11, 2023 6:31 pm

Often parking charges apply. I have had free parking at Tesla Supercharger in Inverness multi storey and in a 7kw charger bay (there was 6 bays and chargers) in Stirling, where parking and electricity was free for EV drivers bang in the centre!

Free parking at every Tesla supercharger, I think, although some time limited.

clarethomer
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by clarethomer » Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:00 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Wed Jan 11, 2023 6:31 pm
Often parking charges apply. I have had free parking at Tesla Supercharger in Inverness multi storey and in a 7kw charger bay (there was 6 bays and chargers) in Stirling, where parking and electricity was free for EV drivers bang in the centre!

Free parking at every Tesla supercharger, I think, although some time limited.
The SUC that I see catching people out is Scotch Corner I think it is because they don't register their reg details at reception to ensure the cameras discount them from the parking charges. £100 fine for people that miss the notice to do so.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Dinks » Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:10 pm

FB_IMG_1673518976885.jpg
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BennyD
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by BennyD » Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:40 pm

clarethomer wrote:
Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:03 pm
Is it not April 2025 this starts?
You might well be right and if so, thanks for correcting me. Tbh, I didn’t take that much notice as I’ll never be buying one. :oops:

IanMcL
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by IanMcL » Thu Jan 12, 2023 7:06 pm

clarethomer wrote:
Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:00 pm
The SUC that I see catching people out is Scotch Corner I think it is because they don't register their reg details at reception to ensure the cameras discount them from the parking charges. £100 fine for people that miss the notice to do so.
Yes the reception isn't always manned!

clarethomer
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by clarethomer » Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:09 am

Tesla have dropped their prices today

Tesla Model 3: £48,490 -> £42,990 (-£5,500, -11.34%)
Tesla Model 3 Long Range: £57,490 -> £50,990 (-£6,500, -11.30%)
Tesla Model 3 Performance: £61,490 -> £57,990 (-£3,500, -5.69%).

BMW 3 series brand new starting at £38,990 before you add on all of the extras on to get some of the stuff that comes as standard on the Tesla.


£4K difference

No Ney Never
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by No Ney Never » Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:31 pm

Newcastle upon Tyne will be introducing a clean air zone in 2023, won't affect the private car initially, these things are always introduced in phases.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:33 pm

Not good news that Britishvolt has gone into administration today

cbx750
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by cbx750 » Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:48 pm

Bosscat wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:26 pm
When a Car reaches 3 years old they have Odometers checked in the MOT every year
Only if it works. The LCD display on my bike works when it feels like it, my MOT tester says he can put mileage unknown if it is not lit up at test time.

Tricky Trevor
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Tricky Trevor » Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:54 pm

Good article on RTE news about getting the best from your electric battery.
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2023/0117 ... cond-hand/

GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:37 pm

cbx750 wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:48 pm
Only if it works. The LCD display on my bike works when it feels like it, my MOT tester says he can put mileage unknown if it is not lit up at test time.
I used to shine a torch across the mileage at an angle to read it if the display wasn't lit up.
Worked 99% of the time.

Casper2
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Casper2 » Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:07 pm


Billyblah
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Billyblah » Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:40 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:33 pm
Not good news that Britishvolt has gone into administration today
Britain being left behind again. The only such battery production in the UK will controlled by the Chinese.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:58 pm

I'm not at any stage expecting to treat GB News as a viable news source on stuff like this

its bankrolled by climate change deniers and fossil fuel magnates

Taffy on the wing
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Taffy on the wing » Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:28 pm

cbx750 wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:48 pm
Only if it works. The LCD display on my bike works when it feels like it, my MOT tester says he can put mileage unknown if it is not lit up at test time.
Don't insurance companies ask for Odometer readings every year?
Mine does over here.

Casper2
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Casper2 » Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:47 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:58 pm
I'm not at any stage expecting to treat GB News as a viable news source on stuff like this

its bankrolled by climate change deniers and fossil fuel magnates
Balanced as always :roll:

clarethomer
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by clarethomer » Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:53 pm

Taffy on the wing wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:28 pm
Don't insurance companies ask for Odometer readings every year?
Mine does over here.
Nope. However if you were in an accident, the insurance company could potentially see whether you have under declared your annual mileage and that would be the only reason why they were interested in your mileage.

Rileybobs
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Rileybobs » Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:00 pm

Have you actually read that sham of an article? It starts with the sentence;

’Electric car owners have been warned that the range of battery-powered vehicles can halve by up to 50 per cent…

How the hell can something halve by up to 50%? I should have stopped reading there because if a ‘journalist’ has written that, then read it back and still decided it’s publishable then they have little credibility.

However, the article then goes onto state;

’Car Magazine suggest that the cold weather can trim off anywhere between 10 and 15 percent of a motor’s range.

So the claim made in the fake news click bait headline has exaggerated the effect that cold weather has on a battery range by up to 500% (see what I did there). And you fall for this rubbish? Presumably because you’re so desperate to believe it.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Rileybobs » Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:04 pm

…the article also states that a Tesla’s range was reduced by just 5.6% in the cold weather. I suppose you could round that up to 50% though just to be on the safe side.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:13 pm

Taffy on the wing wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:28 pm
Don't insurance companies ask for Odometer readings every year?
Mine does over here.
Not in the UK.
They ask how many miles you're likely to do, most people tend to put 10k ish, but it's not uncommon to exceed that and the insurance companies don't check the MOT history.

clarethomer
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by clarethomer » Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:13 pm

Got to the kids school yesterday really early as I had a meeting finish sooner and it wasn't worth going home to come back. I spent 75 mins with heated seat and climate on at 21.5 degrees. Lost 1 mile from my range.

Not that I was worried but it shows should I get stuck on a motorway closure, on a full moon night, where the wind is blowing easterly and its minus 20 that I will at least keep warm and not impede my range too much. Unless I only have a few miles of range less perhaps.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:15 pm

The cold weather doesn’t do much to my Tesla. 5%-10% probably the max drop off.

A bigger issue is that it used to have a maximum of about 295 miles on the capacity and now a year or two later it is 266. I can use it up with a trip to the Turf and back with a few side trips in between. There are no superchargers on the way either nor any in Burnley when I get there.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Rileybobs » Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:15 pm

clarethomer wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:13 pm
Got to the kids school yesterday really early as I had a meeting finish sooner and it wasn't worth going home to come back. I spent 75 mins with heated seat and climate on at 21.5 degrees. Lost 1 mile from my range.

Not that I was worried but it shows should I get stuck on a motorway closure, on a full moon night, where the wind is blowing easterly and its minus 20 that I will at least keep warm and not impede my range too much. Unless I only have a few miles of range less perhaps.
So you’re saying your range literally halved by 0.4%? Scary.
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Casper2
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Casper2 » Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:29 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:00 pm
Have you actually read that sham of an article? It starts with the sentence;

’Electric car owners have been warned that the range of battery-powered vehicles can halve by up to 50 per cent…

How the hell can something halve by up to 50%? I should have stopped reading there because if a ‘journalist’ has written that, then read it back and still decided it’s publishable then they have little credibility.

However, the article then goes onto state;

’Car Magazine suggest that the cold weather can trim off anywhere between 10 and 15 percent of a motor’s range.

So the claim made in the fake news click bait headline has exaggerated the effect that cold weather has on a battery range by up to 500% (see what I did there). And you fall for this rubbish? Presumably because you’re so desperate to believe it.
Sounds like you’re the one with the problem, calm down you’ll do yourself some damage.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Rileybobs » Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:34 pm

Casper2 wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:29 pm
Sounds like you’re the one with the problem, calm down you’ll do yourself some damage.
I’m quite calm thanks. I just like to help out people who are gullible enough to fall for rubbish like the article you posted.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:46 pm

Casper2 wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:47 pm
Balanced as always :roll:
Its GB news

They are backed by climate deniers and fossil fuel magnates

I have absolutely no idea if that effects their editorial output, but the clips I see of their shows suggests that accuracy isn't their strongpoint

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Casper2 » Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:49 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:46 pm
Its GB news

They are backed by climate deniers and fossil fuel magnates

I have absolutely no idea if that effects their editorial output, but the clips I see of their shows suggests that accuracy isn't their strongpoint
Can you tell me which news outlet is accurate?

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Bosscat » Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:35 pm

Theres a youtube programme with monthly films about Electric car ownership

Look up on youtube "Petrol Ped" ... very informative

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:42 pm

Casper2 wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:49 pm
Can you tell me which news outlet is accurate?
Ones that aren't paid for by billionaires with scant interest in the truth would be a good start

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Darthlaw » Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:07 pm

Had to use my 2 year old Tesla for two return trips to Glasgow in the past week. Range of my car is apparently 340 miles but on both occasions I have had to charge it en route, to ensure I get to the destination, which was 220 miles away. Both times driven at the speed limit and as if mMiss Daisy herself was in the back.

So apparently I’ve lost up to a half of a third of the range of the vehicle ;)

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by 1fatclaret » Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:16 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:15 pm
The cold weather doesn’t do much to my Tesla. 5%-10% probably the max drop off.

A bigger issue is that it used to have a maximum of about 295 miles on the capacity and now a year or two later it is 266. I can use it up with a trip to the Turf and back with a few side trips in between. There are no superchargers on the way either nor any in Burnley when I get there.
I’m struggling with that. On a decent journey I’d say I’m losing 20-30% now compared to the autumn when I got the car.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by 1882Clarets1882 » Wed Jan 18, 2023 3:30 pm

95% of electric cars are still on the road. The other 5% actually made it home.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Taffy on the wing » Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:06 pm

Piles of nonsense being posted about electric cars on here......all of it by people who don't own one.
I've had mine for 4 years.......best car i've ever had...by miles.
I smile every time i drive past a Gas station....i smile a lot.
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:40 pm

Some will just parrot whatever they are told on Talk Radio, GB News etc.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by claret2018 » Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:43 pm

Years of reading the tabloids and watching right wing news has some people absolutely terrified of any kind of change.
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Bosscat » Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:45 pm

1882Clarets1882 wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 3:30 pm
95% of electric cars are still on the road. The other 5% actually made it home.
🤭 not bad ...

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by karatekid » Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:15 pm

If you leave your EV at Manchester airport for a fortnights holiday will it hold the charge sufficiently to get you home to Burnley when you get back or does it lose some charge over time?

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Stayingup » Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:32 pm

Pearcey wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:40 pm
I’ve recently been looking at PCP deals for a new car and considered an electric car. I was put off by the price and the fact that we have family dotted about around the country so range would be an issue. It’s a shame as I think they’re a good idea.
Have you thought about a Hybrid? Very good solution.

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