Fully Electric Cars

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BurnleyFC
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by BurnleyFC » Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:09 pm

BurnleyFC wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 9:25 pm
The wife has an iPace on order, due in December.

I like the fact that it looks like a normal car and not a monstrosity like most EVs do.
And just like that, the car we were supposed to be picking up next month has now been pushed back to March 2023.

:angry:

Belial
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Belial » Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:46 pm

BurnleyFC wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:09 pm
And just like that, the car we were supposed to be picking up next month has now been pushed back to March 2023.

:angry:
I know what you mean about the looks, but it sits soooo high on the wheels. Could fit a football team in them wheel arches. Other than that, decent spec, and I agree with the looks in comparison to some others around

No Ney Never
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by No Ney Never » Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:47 pm

dsr wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:55 pm
No MOTs in the first 3 years.

It doesn't apply to electric cars, of course, but with petrol/diesel vehicles the tax on the fuel you use fulfils the same purpose of increasing tax with increased mileage. Your way is more of a replacement of fuel duty rather than RFL on that basis.
Indeed, it combines the two, reducing administration costs.
Given that it would be difficult to distinguish between electric used to charge a vehicle from that used for other purposes, it would make sense to use the measure of mileage to charge the motorist.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by bfcjg » Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:02 pm

No Ney Never wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:50 pm
Road tax should be based on mileage. Mileage is recorded on each MOT.

A matrix of vehicle weight to determine amount of tax per mile x number of miles clocked in 12 months = VED payable.
i.e under 2 tonnes charged at 0.5p/mile, 2-4 tonnes 1p/mile, etc.

For a vehicle of under 2 tonnes that clocked 10,000 miles in 1year would sum as 0.5p x 10,000 = £50

Surely the more of the road you use, the more you pay is fair?
To complicated you will get dodgy garages falsifying records, a fee on fuel will cover high mileage users, re electric it will have to be a road tax.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by BurnleyFC » Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:05 pm

Belial wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:46 pm
I know what you mean about the looks, but it sits soooo high on the wheels. Could fit a football team in them wheel arches. Other than that, decent spec, and I agree with the looks in comparison to some others around
Gone for 22” wheels (with air suspension) which fill the arches nicely, if it ever turns up.

Luckily, it’s a salary sacrifice company car with maintenance and tyres included because I wouldn’t want to have to fork out for new tyres for it.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by No Ney Never » Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:16 pm

bfcjg wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:02 pm
To complicated you will get dodgy garages falsifying records, a fee on fuel will cover high mileage users, re electric it will have to be a road tax.
Technology and AI has moved on to the point that a picture of the mileage can become part of the criteria, negating the requirement to manually input the data. This eliminates errors and falsification given that this measurement is normally digital these days.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by bfcjg » Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:28 pm

No Ney Never wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:16 pm
Technology and AI has moved on to the point that a picture of the mileage can become part of the criteria, negating the requirement to manually input the data. This eliminates errors and falsification given that this measurement is normally digital these days.
I just think everything electronic can be hacked, ludite 😁

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by No Ney Never » Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:53 pm

bfcjg wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:28 pm
I just think everything electronic can be hacked, ludite 😁
Quite right, it will be the ability to disconnect the equipment (i.e. sensor) that records and sends the data to the recorder (digital display) that will enable the falsification of the mileage travelled. Alternatively maybe a software that in some way manipulates the data for the desired effect.
Don't think there's ever been a time in history where no one has looked for a hack where a cost/tax is concerned, we just happen to be moving forward in the digital age.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Belial » Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:19 pm

BurnleyFC wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:05 pm
Gone for 22” wheels (with air suspension) which fill the arches nicely, if it ever turns up.

Luckily, it’s a salary sacrifice company car with maintenance and tyres included because I wouldn’t want to have to fork out for new tyres for it.
Sounds like you've got the right idea

My missus' firm has just started something like that - do you get your insurance and everyhing else all in as well? Mate of mine has had a Tesla for a couple of years on similar scheme - think it's worked out around 40% cheaper through his work

Been looking myself at options for next car and I did look a few times at the IPace (just that wheel gap looked fugly, but woudl be intersted to see what the bigger wheels look like on it).

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by BurnleyFC » Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:27 pm

Belial wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:19 pm
Sounds like you've got the right idea

My missus' firm has just started something like that - do you get your insurance and everyhing else all in as well? Mate of mine has had a Tesla for a couple of years on similar scheme - think it's worked out around 40% cheaper through his work

Been looking myself at options for next car and I did look a few times at the IPace (just that wheel gap looked fugly, but woudl be intersted to see what the bigger wheels look like on it).
Yes, insurance is included too and when you factor that in it works out about 60% cheaper than a PCP.
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Casper
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Casper » Mon Dec 12, 2022 12:28 pm

Wonder how the electric cars are fairing stranded on ungritted motorways for 8 hours

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Dec 12, 2022 12:40 pm

Casper wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 12:28 pm
Wonder how the electric cars are fairing stranded on ungritted motorways for 8 hours
Just as fair as fuel cars.

They use next to no energy when stationary

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Casper » Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:45 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 12:40 pm
Just as fair as fuel cars.

They use next to no energy when stationary
Really at -10 :roll:

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by clarethomer » Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:50 pm

Casper wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:45 pm
Really at -10 :roll:
Having a cold battery impacts on range. Just as it being windy and wet can impact the range.

Its all the same for normal cars too - your MPG is affected by these conditions.

If I was sat stationary on a motorway - it wouldn't be adversely affected in comparison to a non-ev.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Casper » Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:58 pm

Its all the same for normal cars too - your MPG is affected by these conditions.

So you saying MPG is affected the same in a petrol/diesel vehicle?

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by dsr » Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:06 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 12:40 pm
Just as fair as fuel cars.

They use next to no energy when stationary
How does fuel use with the heater on compare with petrol/diesel? Possibly the main disadvantage in the very rare case of being stuck in snow for hours on the motorway, would be that there are too few charging points at the next services.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by clarethomer » Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:06 pm

Casper wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:58 pm
Its all the same for normal cars too - your MPG is affected by these conditions.

So you saying MPG is affected the same in a petrol/diesel vehicle?
Yep

Weather conditions affect mpg. Weather affects the miles you can drive for every kWh of energy used

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by clarethomer » Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:00 pm

dsr wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:06 pm
How does fuel use with the heater on compare with petrol/diesel? Possibly the main disadvantage in the very rare case of being stuck in snow for hours on the motorway, would be that there are too few charging points at the next services.
So heating an EV is quicker than an ICE I believe. I can also heat whilst plugged in at home so I don't have to waste any capacity in my battery before setting off. Unlike ICE vehicles that use their fuel to do so when starting a journey.

I am not sure whether sat idling for several hours in an ICE is more efficient than sat in my car with my heating on using a heat pump. Would it be any better/worse in terms of lost "fuel" when it comes to continue my journey? I can't honestly say.

The fact is that, I have never been stuck on a motorway for hours and hours in my 20+ years of driving.

If the weather was that bad, or there was a risk to the weather being that bad, I probably wouldn't have been caught out and planned accordingly.

If you look at the more likely situation of a motorway closure in normal weather. I don't use much energy being stationary. Just as an ICE car wouldn't if they sat there with their engine off.

These kind of questions on the whole are not things I ever get concerned with. Its like saying you better wear your cold weather clothes just in case of that 1% chance happens. Nobody lives their lives like that...

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:03 pm

dsr wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:06 pm
How does fuel use with the heater on compare with petrol/diesel? Possibly the main disadvantage in the very rare case of being stuck in snow for hours on the motorway, would be that there are too few charging points at the next services.
Shouldn’t make a difference.

The power to heat the car in comparison to moving it is next to nothing.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by 1fatclaret » Mon Dec 12, 2022 5:59 pm

dsr wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:06 pm
How does fuel use with the heater on compare with petrol/diesel? Possibly the main disadvantage in the very rare case of being stuck in snow for hours on the motorway, would be that there are too few charging points at the next services.
Done about 6000 miles in 2 1/2 months of owning one. Not once have I turned up at any charging location and not been able to charge. I hope the investment in charging points keeps pace with the increased sales of EV’s but at present there really is no issue that I can see

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Casper » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:11 pm

clarethomer wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:06 pm
Yep

Weather conditions affect mpg. Weather affects the miles you can drive for every kWh of energy used
Stop being bloody stupid

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by clarethomer » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:18 pm

Casper wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:11 pm
Stop being bloody stupid
Lol.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by IanMcL » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:20 pm

Just as an example, when I use camp mode in my Tesla, overnight, it would lose about 20-25 miles, depending on length of night, temp etc.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Croydon Claret » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:25 pm

Casper wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:11 pm
Stop being bloody stupid
There's a whole host of reasons why cold weather is bad for mpg in a petrol/diesel car
- it takes longer for the engine to warm up. Whilst warming up it is less efficient
- cold weather reduces the air pressure in tyres so you get more rolling resistance
- cold air is denser so your car has to fight harder to push its way through it
- using anything electrical to heat the interior/windows needs more work from your alternator

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:26 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:20 pm
Just as an example, when I use camp mode in my Tesla, overnight, it would lose about 20-25 miles, depending on length of night, temp etc.
Yes, mines similar. I was stuck in the car in Jan last year for 6 hours and lost 1%

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by IanMcL » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:30 pm

At least my Tesla is 4 wheel drive!

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:35 pm

But what would happen if you drove your electric car into the sea and sunk it? Or set fire to it and let it burn?

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Croydon Claret » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:39 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:30 pm
At least my Tesla is 4 wheel drive!
What would the plan be if you had to drive 300 miles in one day, returning the following day, but had nowhere to charge overnight?

How much time would you typically be sat charging it to get you there and back?

Presumably whatever figure you come up with will be significantly longer for something other than a Tesla?

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:43 pm

Croydon Claret wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:39 pm
What would the plan be if you had to drive 300 miles in one day, returning the following day, but had nowhere to charge overnight?

How much time would you typically be sat charging it to get you there and back?

Presumably whatever figure you come up with will be significantly longer for something other than a Tesla?
Unless your driving it into the middle of the desert I’m pretty sure you will find a public within a 10 minute drive.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Bosscat » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:43 pm

Croydon Claret wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:39 pm
What would the plan be if you had to drive 300 miles in one day, returning the following day, but had nowhere to charge overnight?

How much time would you typically be sat charging it to get you there and back?

Presumably whatever figure you come up with will be significantly longer for something other than a Tesla?
Am sure any EV with fast charging (as most are these days) would be comparable to the Tesla on charging times etc.... but I am no expert really ... just doing research online

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Bosscat » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:44 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:35 pm
But what would happen if you drove your electric car into the sea and sunk it? Or set fire to it and let it burn?
Be in the same sh!t as someone with an ICE motor 🤣🤣🤣

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by No Ney Never » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:45 pm

At this time of year, it's great to be able to pre heat my Leaf via the app on my phone.
Defrosted windscreen, seat heated, Steering wheel heated and car at a lovely 26c.
No freezing, no scraping just get in and go.👍😀
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Croydon Claret » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:46 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:43 pm
Unless your driving it into the middle of the desert I’m pretty sure you will find a public within a 10 minute drive.
I don't doubt that. Just have no idea how long I'd have to sit there charging a nearly flat battery back to 100%

Obviously depends on the car and the speed of the charger but any kind of ballpark/range?

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:47 pm

Croydon Claret wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:46 pm
I don't doubt that. Just have no idea how long I'd have to sit there charging a nearly flat battery back to 100%

Obviously depends on the car and the speed of the charger but any kind of ballpark/range?
About half an hour to get to 80% charge.

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Croydon Claret » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:48 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:47 pm
About half an hour to get to 80% charge.
That's not so bad, with further top ups along the way

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by IanMcL » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:48 pm

Croydon Claret wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:39 pm
What would the plan be if you had to drive 300 miles in one day, returning the following day, but had nowhere to charge overnight?

How much time would you typically be sat charging it to get you there and back?

Presumably whatever figure you come up with will be significantly longer for something other than a Tesla?
Well my Tesla is a 2016 S so not as quick charging as newer models (by a lot)

When I travel to Burnley on my 470 round trip, I leave home with about 200 miles on the clock. That does mean a real 200. Depends on conditions. I drive to Hilton Park services and stay 15 -20 mins. I pay visit to use the facilities, so no issue.

I then drive to Charnock Richard and stay 45-60 mins. I eat, drink, do emails and stuff.

I can then get to Burnley watch the match and all the way back to Hilton Park. Similarly, 45-60 mins and that gets me home with some for next day.

Different lifestyle. I used to drive, watch, return. Not a good idea!
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Bosscat » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:52 pm

Croydon Claret wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:46 pm
I don't doubt that. Just have no idea how long I'd have to sit there charging a nearly flat battery back to 100%

Obviously depends on the car and the speed of the charger but any kind of ballpark/range?
You wouldn't charge to 100% ... I heard most charge to 80% which extends the life of the Batteries 🤔
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Croydon Claret » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:53 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:48 pm
Well my Tesla is a 2016 S so not as quick charging as newer models (by a lot)

When I travel to Burnley on my 470 round trip, I leave home with about 200 miles on the clock. That does mean a real 200. Depends on conditions. I drive to Hilton Park services and stay 15 -20 mins. I pay visit to use the facilities, so no issue.

I then drive to Charnock Richard and stay 45-60 mins. I eat, drink, do emails and stuff.

I can then get to Burnley watch the match and all the way back to Hilton Park. Similarly, 45-60 mins and that gets me home with some for next day.

Different lifestyle. I used to drive, watch, return. Not a good idea!
Cheers for that.

My round trip is a bit longer at 550 miles. Good to hear about real world experiences for such journeys. In an ideal world there would be somewhere to charge it whilst you're watching the match. I'm sure that will come in time

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:54 pm

Croydon Claret wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:53 pm
Cheers for that.

My round trip is a bit longer at 550 miles. Good to hear about real world experiences for such journeys. In an ideal world there would be somewhere to charge it whilst you're watching the match. I'm sure that will come in time
There are charging points on the wall next to the Jimmy McIlroy turnstiles. Presume they’re for staff on non-match days though.
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Croydon Claret » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:54 pm

Bosscat wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:52 pm
You wouldn't charge to 100% ... I heard most charge to 80% which extends the life of the Batteries 🤔
No more turning it up to 11 :D
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by IanMcL » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:57 pm

Bosscat is right. After 80% the charge speed drops considerably.

Just put my journey in the ABRP app and it says 10h 32 mins 470 miles. At present, best route via Trafford Centre supercharger!
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by clarethomer » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:57 pm

Croydon Claret wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:25 pm
There's a whole host of reasons why cold weather is bad for mpg in a petrol/diesel car
- it takes longer for the engine to warm up. Whilst warming up it is less efficient
- cold weather reduces the air pressure in tyres so you get more rolling resistance
- cold air is denser so your car has to fight harder to push its way through it
- using anything electrical to heat the interior/windows needs more work from your alternator
Toyota haven’t got a clue either.

https://mag.toyota.co.uk/why-does-fuel- ... in-winter/
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by IanMcL » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:59 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:35 pm
But what would happen if you drove your electric car into the sea and sunk it? Or set fire to it and let it burn?
Well at first, I think is designed to float, so I can think about it from there!

I could drive along the bottom, I suppose! Got to come out somewhere!

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by IanMcL » Mon Dec 12, 2022 7:04 pm

Croydon Claret wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:53 pm
Cheers for that.

My round trip is a bit longer at 550 miles. Good to hear about real world experiences for such journeys. In an ideal world there would be somewhere to charge it whilst you're watching the match. I'm sure that will come in time
Depends which way you have to come/go. There are chargers on motorway services and the ZapMap app shows every charger, speed, cost in the land.
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by No Ney Never » Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:40 pm

Croydon Claret wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:46 pm
I don't doubt that. Just have no idea how long I'd have to sit there charging a nearly flat battery back to 100%

Obviously depends on the car and the speed of the charger but any kind of ballpark/range?
Mine took 3 hours to charge 36% on a 7kw charger (most home chargers and the public ones).
Other people I've spoken to say theirs also averages 12%/hour.
Of course the rapid chargers generally do 80% in 30-40 mins.
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:15 pm

There are chargers on Kingsway in Burnley, normally free. Very close to the Bridge bier huis for a quick real ale before the game.
Normally free.

1fatclaret
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by 1fatclaret » Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:29 pm

Croydon Claret wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:39 pm
What would the plan be if you had to drive 300 miles in one day, returning the following day, but had nowhere to charge overnight?

How much time would you typically be sat charging it to get you there and back?

Presumably whatever figure you come up with will be significantly longer for something other than a Tesla?
Regularly do this kind of journey. I’d leave fully charged and add 20 minutes to each 300 mile trip.

Basically stop for a ****, grab a brew and catch Ip on my emails for 15 minutes. The off again.

It’s really not difficult
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Casper
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by Casper » Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:57 am

Fancy waiting 30-40 minutes to fill up your car with petrol and being brainwashed into thinking it was a great idea 😂😂
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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by IanMcL » Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:34 am

Casper wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:57 am
Fancy waiting 30-40 minutes to fill up your car with petrol and being brainwashed into thinking it was a great idea 😂😂
Normal journeys there would be mo waiting. That is most of people's journeys. The odd long haul, the rest will do you good!

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Re: Fully Electric Cars

Post by dsr » Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:50 am

IanMcL wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:34 am
Normal journeys there would be mo waiting. That is most of people's journeys. The odd long haul, the rest will do you good!
Depends if you have two drivers. Two drivers = no need to stop for a rest.

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