Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:10 pm

I wish!

I think we both will be around though

Look, you know its going to happen and that it has to happen

Why pretend otherwise?

Because I have a practical viewpoint. It may well happen but not for a long time yet. We are led by a bunch of idiots who haven't got the planning in place for the full transition to renewables and missing out on nuclear ten years ago was a massive dropped b0llock!!!

The Centre Spot wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:04 pm

Congratulations and welcome to the club.
In addition to the benefits, they're actually really nice to drive, would never want to go back to manual gears.

Been driving ICE auto's for over 10 yrs now (am keeping my Jag E-Pace Oil burner for long distance ... cos I love that) ... but wanted an EV to replace the wifes Citroen C3 petrol auto, for local stuff, shopping etc .

So we've bought a 18 month old Citroen E C4 from Motorpoint ... and on trade in actually got almost £400 more than we paid for the C3 4 yrs ago (which has almost paid for the Ohme Home Pro charger ... happy days. The E C4 is a very comfortable car and easy to drive ...

Stayingup wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:22 pm

Because I have a practical viewpoint. It may well happen but not for a long time yet. We are led by a bunch of idiots who haven't got the planning in place for the full transition to renewables and missing out on nuclear ten years ago was a massive dropped b0llock!!!

No arguments from me about us being led by a bunch of idiots!

Whitgord wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:10 pm

The vast majority of my time sees the car running on electric mode alone. It is just a pain that electricity is so expensive now.

Simple solution.......Re-Nationalize the Electric companies!
Some things are too important to hand over to a bunch of lying, price-fixing Thieves.
They've had their chance & look what they've done with it.

Let's not spoil the thread with politics please.

The charging infrastructure does still need to improve though and I think the planning process as it takes ages for them to be installed and put live.

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:10 pm

I wish!

I think we both will be around though

Look, you know its going to happen and that it has to happen

Why pretend otherwise?

I think the point is that it is currently way behind schedule. My sister bought her electric car 3 years ago, since when they have used up 30% of the time needed to roll out the infrastructure, find a more reliable source of renewable electricity, improve the vehicle technology, and bring down the price to ICE levels. They haven't come close to any of those things and are showing no signs of doing so before 2030.

Obviously they still have the nuclear option of simply pricing half the population out of the market, but that isn't politically possible. People like cars too much.

dsr wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 25, 2023 12:43 am

I think the point is that it is currently way behind schedule. My sister bought her electric car 3 years ago, since when they have used up 30% of the time needed to roll out the infrastructure, find a more reliable source of renewable electricity, improve the vehicle technology, and bring down the price to ICE levels. They haven't come close to any of those things and are showing no signs of doing so before 2030.

Obviously they still have the nuclear option of simply pricing half the population out of the market, but that isn't politically possible. People like cars too much.

Price parity for ICE to EV was always quoted as 2025-26 from what I have read previously.

You can pick up the base tesla model 3 and the ICE 3 series for more or less the same money. Especially if you have to add on extras to the BMW it’s probably there now.

The charging structure needs local councils to become more open to it. Lamp post charging and allowing charging solutions to work for people who don’t have off street parking etc. if you can increase the ability to charge at home, you can increase the adoption. I bet a large % of people in this country could easily exist on home charging if they had access to it on their streets.

I read an article a few weeks ago that said in 2016 there were 16 cars for every rapid charger. Today there are 30 cars per charger.

The rate of charger installation would need to increase by 288% if charger availability is to keep up with new vehicle sales

Just built a BMW 320 sport up to what the base model 3 tesla equivalent has as standard

BMW is over £3k more

Croydon Claret wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 25, 2023 8:05 am

I read an article a few weeks ago that said in 2016 there were 16 cars for every rapid charger. Today there are 30 cars per charger.

The rate of charger installation would need to increase by 288% if charger availability is to keep up with new vehicle sales

That doesn’t surprise me. I know a few people that rely on them because they don’t have home chargers.

Rapid charging relies on installing units that offer DC charging. Having more people that can charge off the existing infrastructure on AC charging would reduce some of the pressure of DC charging.

Imagine if all car parks had chargers that were designed for cars that were going to be sat there for 2-5 hours. People would park there whilst in they shop/work etc.

Don’t necessarily need rapid chargers to pick up the pain here.

3.6kWh charging can add 16 miles of range for each hour it’s charging. Sharing a 7.2kWh charging point means 2 cars sat there for 2-5 hrs on one could give cars enough mileage to complete most daily journeys.

I think I posted a while ago on this.

Whilst I’m still of the opinion it’s great to have as company car for BIK reasons, I would never purchase one myself. The infrastructure is nowhere near fit for purpose. Someone mentioned further up that the numbers have increased, but from my experience I’m finding at least 1 in 3 don’t work. The providers are so obsessed with getting your data through apps that on some it becomes impossible to pay for, or just plain don’t work. So much time is added on for long journeys now to charge, that I use the wife’s petrol car for anything north of 100 miles.

Until I see much more of the electric forecourts like the one in Braintree, I would steer clear, unless it’s a company car and you have a second car. Way too much hassle.

LAM wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:01 am

I think I posted a while ago on this.

Whilst I’m still of the opinion it’s great to have as company car for BIK reasons, I would never purchase one myself. The infrastructure is nowhere near fit for purpose. Someone mentioned further up that the numbers have increased, but from my experience I’m finding at least 1 in 3 don’t work. The providers are so obsessed with getting your data through apps that on some it becomes impossible to pay for, or just plain don’t work. So much time is added on for long journeys now to charge, that I use the wife’s petrol car for anything north of 100 miles.

Until I see much more of the electric forecourts like the one in Braintree, I would steer clear, unless it’s a company car and you have a second car. Way too much hassle.

You sound similar to this guy.

dsr wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 25, 2023 12:43 am

I think the point is that it is currently way behind schedule. My sister bought her electric car 3 years ago, since when they have used up 30% of the time needed to roll out the infrastructure, find a more reliable source of renewable electricity, improve the vehicle technology, and bring down the price to ICE levels. They haven't come close to any of those things and are showing no signs of doing so before 2030.

Obviously they still have the nuclear option of simply pricing half the population out of the market, but that isn't politically possible. People like cars too much.

Being cynical this could be a plan to vastly reduce the number of vehicles on the roads. Then again could a politician even think of that. Personally I don't think.it is as the car manufacturers will surely not wish to reduce priduction capacity and of course their profits.

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:32 pm

Been driving ICE auto's for over 10 yrs now (am keeping my Jag E-Pace Oil burner for long distance ... cos I love that) ... but wanted an EV to replace the wifes Citroen C3 petrol auto, for local stuff, shopping etc .

So we've bought a 18 month old Citroen E C4 from Motorpoint ... and on trade in actually got almost £400 more than we paid for the C3 4 yrs ago (which has almost paid for the Ohme Home Pro charger ... happy days. The E C4 is a very comfortable car and easy to drive ...

Was that you Bosscat, driving up Belvedere road (after the match) in a white E C4 after the game?

Wokingclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:23 pm

Was that you Bosscat, driving up Belvedere road (after the match) in a white E C4 after the game?

Could've been we went up Belvedere Rd from the Tennis Club... we didn't nearly run you over or owt silly did we

Must have been you then, before the Ormerod hotel,

Very smart

Wokingclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:59 pm

Must have been you then, before the Ormerod hotel,

Very smart

Love it as a 2nd car the Mrs drove it for the 1st time today after a brief run through the controls ... she likes it too.

Don't think I would be brave enough just yet to do journeys requiring a charge enroute, so will be keeping the Jag Oil Burner .

We’re two weeks in with our I-Pace, and the public charging infrastructure is infuriatingly unreliable and also expensive.

We need to get a home charger sorted ASAP.

BurnleyFC wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 27, 2023 3:06 pm

We’re two weeks in with our I-Pace, and the public charging infrastructure is infuriatingly unreliable and also expensive.

We need to get a home charger sorted ASAP.

I ordered the home charger before the car ... it was fitted 4 days after we picked up the C4 ...

Essential to have a home charger.

Almost got an I-pace to replace the E-pace and keep the C3 but decided to do it the other way round ... Keep the E-pace for high days and Holidays ... and get an E C4 for a shopping trolley and local journeys.

clarethomer wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 25, 2023 8:03 am

Price parity for ICE to EV was always quoted as 2025-26 from what I have read previously.

You can pick up the base tesla model 3 and the ICE 3 series for more or less the same money. Especially if you have to add on extras to the BMW it’s probably there now.

The charging structure needs local councils to become more open to it. Lamp post charging and allowing charging solutions to work for people who don’t have off street parking etc. if you can increase the ability to charge at home, you can increase the adoption. I bet a large % of people in this country could easily exist on home charging if they had access to it on their streets.

Lamp post charging is cloud cuckoo land. There are about 50 houses on my street, and 6 lamp posts. For proper charging points that don't leave wires trailing across every pavement, they need underground wiring - which of course they could run alongside the lamppost wiring, no need to dig new tunnels, but they would definitely need higher capacity wires to carry the load. Not going to happen in 7 years.

I'm not too fussed about the cost of new electric vehicles. People who can afford to buy one can always make do with slightly lower spec if they have to. What about the cost of second hand ones - when will there be a reliable second hand vehicle that can be expected to do 5+ years trouble free and still has the full range of a new one? That costs say £5k-£8k? The Vauxhall Corsa equivalent, say?

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 27, 2023 3:16 pm

Essential to have a home charger.

The biggest hurdle for me, leasehold apartment with parking space.

This seems like such a huge blind spot as this situation will be very common in urban areas where the air quality is lowest and the push to EVs most encouraged.
All very well requiring charging in new building but the freeholders of existing buildings will need to be dragged kicking and screaming by the government to even consider some kind of charger installation scheme. Was hard enough putting new windows in!

CombatClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:04 pm

The biggest hurdle for me, leasehold apartment with parking space.

This seems like such a huge blind spot as this situation will be very common in urban areas where the air quality is lowest and the push to EVs most encouraged.
All very well requiring charging in new building but the freeholders of existing buildings will need to be dragged kicking and screaming by the government to even consider some kind of charger installation scheme. Was hard enough putting new windows in!

Can see it would be a problem CC

My dad lives in a housing association property. He decided that his next car would be an EV but a condition of the sale (mobility) was that you must have a home charger installed.

The housing association dragged their feet for months before eventually refusing.

He's now getting an SUV gas guzzler instead

dsr wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 27, 2023 3:19 pm

Lamp post charging is cloud cuckoo land. There are about 50 houses on my street, and 6 lamp posts. For proper charging points that don't leave wires trailing across every pavement, they need underground wiring - which of course they could run alongside the lamppost wiring, no need to dig new tunnels, but they would definitely need higher capacity wires to carry the load. Not going to happen in 7 years.

I'm not too fussed about the cost of new electric vehicles. People who can afford to buy one can always make do with slightly lower spec if they have to. What about the cost of second hand ones - when will there be a reliable second hand vehicle that can be expected to do 5+ years trouble free and still has the full range of a new one? That costs say £5k-£8k? The Vauxhall Corsa equivalent, say?

Lamp posts are one part of the solution and there are other solutions too which I have seen, like cable arms that clear the path in the air.

But of course, you have a point, 50 houses in a row and considering lamp posts tend to be 3.6kWh its not pragmatic for every user.

Most people have more than one car so 50 houses is a lot of cars so even just parking your car can be an issue before you start trying to introduce charging.

Thats why a combination of street charging and more destination chargers are required.

If your car is only ever parked for several hours from getting home from work until you go out the next day - home charging.on street is probably essential.

If you are someone who commutes to an office, and have the car stood for 7-8 hrs at work, then having a charger you can use in this time is likely to be sufficient given you could get 200 miles a charge easily within around 6hrs.

It all depends on your car usage. I do 30 miles a day during the week. I could charge up on Sunday and make it through to Saturday easily enough without any problems. I could charge at the office once a week, or go and spend 40 mins on a local rapid charger whilst i go and grab a brew. Either way, I could easily survive without the need for a home charger - even though I have one.

It feels strange to someone who thinks like an ICE driver (as I once did) and its a bit weird to start off with but home charging isn't always essential in a lot of user cases.

You could pick up a zoe or leaf probably for that price. Battery degredation isnt really a consideration on a used EVs (some Zoes have a battery rental so you can have peace of mind that they will replace when they get below a certain point) but defining 100% of new range isn't the measurement you need to consider. Its can the car meet my range needs for the next 5 years. You don't go shopping for a used car asking if it still has the same power and MPG as the day it was bought.

My Tesla has now done 101,053 miles! Missed the 100k celebration toot! Another 470 tomorrow!

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:08 pm

My Tesla has now done 101,053 miles! Missed the 100k celebration toot! Another 470 tomorrow!

Have you re-lined the brakes yet? Any service of note?

clarethomer wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:00 pm

Lamp posts are one part of the solution and there are other solutions too which I have seen, like cable arms that clear the path in the air.

But of course, you have a point, 50 houses in a row and considering lamp posts tend to be 3.6kWh its not pragmatic for every user.

Most people have more than one car so 50 houses is a lot of cars so even just parking your car can be an issue before you start trying to introduce charging.

Thats why a combination of street charging and more destination chargers are required.

If your car is only ever parked for several hours from getting home from work until you go out the next day - home charging.on street is probably essential.

If you are someone who commutes to an office, and have the car stood for 7-8 hrs at work, then having a charger you can use in this time is likely to be sufficient given you could get 200 miles a charge easily within around 6hrs.

It all depends on your car usage. I do 30 miles a day during the week. I could charge up on Sunday and make it through to Saturday easily enough without any problems. I could charge at the office once a week, or go and spend 40 mins on a local rapid charger whilst i go and grab a brew. Either way, I could easily survive without the need for a home charger - even though I have one.

It feels strange to someone who thinks like an ICE driver (as I once did) and its a bit weird to start off with but home charging isn't always essential in a lot of user cases.

You could pick up a zoe or leaf probably for that price. Battery degredation isnt really a consideration on a used EVs (some Zoes have a battery rental so you can have peace of mind that they will replace when they get below a certain point) but defining 100% of new range isn't the measurement you need to consider. Its can the car meet my range needs for the next 5 years. You don't go shopping for a used car asking if it still has the same power and MPG as the day it was bought.

Good points. But one of the crucial ones is the one about most people having two cars, and of course people with two cars have a lot more flexibility in making one of them electric.

I don't have any ideological objection to electric cars, but for my sort of driving they just won't do. Either the technology needs to change, or the network needs vastly expanding. If people going to work are planning to charge their cars there, then every space (or at least a significant majority) needs to have charging facilities, because it isn't reasonable to expect people to move the cars at lunchtime. And even then, if I go horse racing (as I do) it's going to be a long time before the fields they use for parking in have charging points at every blade of grass.

Second hand ICE cars can be relied on to have reasonable mpg relative to their original figures, and top speed of plenty for the motorway. That's all I need. We don't know yet what a 10 year old Leaf will do.

It's not that electric cars would be impossible for me, just that the inconveniences are too great in comparison with petrol. The technology will no doubt improve, and it has to. And I don't think it will be within the 7 years that the government is hoping for.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:08 pm

My Tesla has now done 101,053 miles! Missed the 100k celebration toot! Another 470 tomorrow!

I guess with fewer moving parts the mileage is less of a concern than with an ICE car.

Croydon Claret wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 28, 2023 5:59 pm

I guess with fewer moving parts the mileage is less of a concern than with an ICE car.

Have been told a service plan for my C4 is approximately 1/2 what I had on my C3 ICE 1.2 Automatic so yes far fewer moving parts

Croydon Claret wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 28, 2023 5:59 pm

I guess with fewer moving parts the mileage is less of a concern than with an ICE car.

No concern at all. They do hundreds of thousands. Crazy world.

I've had mine 4.5 yrs ......still no service done.
2 flat tyres ...that's it.

Electricity Network (Senior) Designer here.

The ramifications of adding all this EV charging goes way further back than just the equipment you might find in the street.

Equipment costs alone for 500kVA substation are circa £50k not including any of the ancillary costs associated with install and connection to the existing HV network. Also excluded are the costs for the charging equipment and associated civil works.

500kVA will get you 22no. 22kW chargers, more if you want a lower charge rate. Then theres the space to install a substation, which is at a premium in cities. You’d probably want a carpark for this.

Connection to street lighting is possible but only if the capacity is there on the network already. Streetlights electricity infrastructure is typically rated to max 25A at 230v / single phase.

https://news.yahoo.com/evs-far-cleaner- ... 00937.html

Hope this helps the "what about the Cobalt mining"? crew.

I prefer ICE, it just sounds way cooler

Shaggy wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 04, 2023 3:27 am

I prefer ICE, it just sounds way cooler

So does Sean Dyche

I received an email informing me that the new Tesla 3 was available, longest range quickest charging etc….
I have absolutely no intention of getting one. It’s unsuitable for my lifestyle for a start.
I did a quick tot-up of the cost per mile, based on lease cost, deposit, annual allowed mileage, claimed range and at home charging cost.
£ 1.28p per mile! That equates to £153.60p for my 120 mile round trip to The Turf. F@@k that!

enduroclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:58 am

I received an email informing me that the new Tesla 3 was available, longest range quickest charging etc….
I have absolutely no intention of getting one. It’s unsuitable for my lifestyle for a start.
I did a quick tot-up of the cost per mile, based on lease cost, deposit, annual allowed mileage, claimed range and at home charging cost.
£ 1.28p per mile! That equates to £153.60p for my 120 mile round trip to The Turf. F@@k that!

To present a less biased counter-argument, and one based on actual experience, I will be travelling to tomorrow's game in my electric car and the 100 mile round trip will cost me £2.80, which is considerably cheaper than the £30 it cost me in petrol in my previous car.

enduroclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:58 am

I received an email informing me that the new Tesla 3 was available, longest range quickest charging etc….
I have absolutely no intention of getting one. It’s unsuitable for my lifestyle for a start.
I did a quick tot-up of the cost per mile, based on lease cost, deposit, annual allowed mileage, claimed range and at home charging cost.
£ 1.28p per mile! That equates to £153.60p for my 120 mile round trip to The Turf. F@@k that!

What would the cost per mile be in a 3 series BMW on the same lease terms be just out of curiosity?

Taffy on the wing wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 24, 2023 4:36 pm

Simple solution.......Re-Nationalize the Electric companies!
Some things are too important to hand over to a bunch of lying, price-fixing Thieves.
They've had their chance & look what they've done with it.

And you want to hand it to the government in the hope that it’s no longer in the hands of lying price fixing thieves?

Let me know how that goes….

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 30, 2023 1:13 pm

To present a less biased counter-argument, and one based on actual experience, I will be travelling to tomorrow's game in my electric car and the 100 mile round trip will cost me £2.80, which is considerably cheaper than the £30 it cost me in petrol in my previous car.

Surely your £2.80 is just the electrical cost?
What about purchase/lease cost?

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 30, 2023 1:13 pm

To present a less biased counter-argument, and one based on actual experience, I will be travelling to tomorrow's game in my electric car and the 100 mile round trip will cost me £2.80, which is considerably cheaper than the £30 it cost me in petrol in my previous car.

Luckily, my over 500 mile trip (I have to go south before north, first) will still cost zilch.

I love free supercharging!

enduroclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 30, 2023 1:36 pm

Surely your £2.80 is just the electrical cost?
What about purchase/lease cost?

Yes of course it's just running costs, all vehicles come with a purchase/lease cost.

For the record the monthly cost is about £40 more than my previous car, but I don't pay road tax which is saving me over £500 per year, so that more than evens out.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 30, 2023 1:42 pm

Luckily, my over 500 mile trip (I have to go south before north, first) will still cost zilch.

I love free supercharging!

To be fair I got £100 energy credit when I changed to an EV tariff so that's between 3500-4000 free miles, so in effect the journey is costing me nothing for the foreseeable.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 30, 2023 1:42 pm

Luckily, my over 500 mile trip (I have to go south before north, first) will still cost zilch.

I love free supercharging!

Oh f@#k oorfff will ya Ian - we know already

bobinho wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 30, 2023 1:30 pm

And you want to hand it to the government in the hope that it’s no longer in the hands of lying price fixing thieves?

Let me know how that goes….

That would no doubt be a Labour Govt.........so you wouldn't have to worry about such things.

Just topped mine up today at home ... Sunshining on our solar panels ... checked meter before top up and after ... used 3 kwh but added 11 kwh to the E C4 ... thats 44 miles added for 60p should cover our trip to TM tomorrow night (not all of us have Ians free charging but not grumbling )

enduroclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 30, 2023 1:36 pm

Surely your £2.80 is just the electrical cost?
What about purchase/lease cost?

But what about the purchase/Lease cost on an ICE car and Road fund licence etc etc involved in running an ICE car haven't you factored that in

Taffy on the wing wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:26 pm

That would no doubt be a Labour Govt.........so you wouldn't have to worry about such things.

I honestly don’t think it matters which one we get…. The only difference between any of em is the colour of the rosette….

bobinho wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:52 pm

I honestly don’t think it matters which one we get…. The only difference between any of em is the colour of the rosette….

Then you're not paying attention!

bobinho wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:52 pm

I honestly don’t think it matters which one we get…. The only difference between any of em is the colour of the rosette….

True it doesn't matter who you vote for

"The Government get in"