Bury : No Wages

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dsr
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by dsr » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:21 pm

Sausage wrote:The use of a Compulsory Purchase Order is not an option. You can't forcibly buy land or property off someone because you don't like them or their motives. CPOs are used to acquire land for development where the owner is either unwilling to sell or is demanding a ludicrous price for the land and the land is necessary to deliver a tangible public benefit (i.e. betterment).

The Council might be better served by advising a Bury Fans Trust to register as a community group (possibly a charity) and requesting the Council to register Gigg Lane as an Asset of Community Value. This would give the fans the opportunity to put together a bid to buy the ground if the current owner ever wishes or is forced by creditors to sell. The designation of the stadium as an ACV, coupled with the enforceable covenant, would likely cause any speculative developer to run a mile, leaving the field free for the Fans Trust to buy the ground.
Thnak you. Then that's what the council should be doing.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Clarets4me » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:25 pm

dsr wrote:I could see the council buying the ground (would compulsory purchase be possible?) and leasing it to a Phoenix club in accordance with the covenant. But to rescue the existing club from its pit of corruption would be ridiculously expensive and pointless.

A phoenix club gives them the chance to start at level 8 or so, get huge gates for the level of competition, and build up some winning momentum for working their way back up the leagues.
Hereford FC, the phoenix rising from the ashes of Hereford United, are now in their 2nd season back in National League North.

They reformed in late 2014, won the Midland League - Premier ( 9th tier ) in 2015/16, won the Southern League - South and West, in 2016/17, and then they won the Southern League - Premier in 2017/18, giving them three successive promotions ....

They faltered a bit last season, but avoided relegation. They seem like a decent template to follow ....

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:38 pm

Councillor James Daly, what is his connection with Dale? How many £s does he expect Bury Council to be able to spend on buying a football club?

I'd assume one or two of Bury's councillors were supporters of their town club - which is not unreasonable - will they all have to remove themselves from any votes as they have an interest?

Where does this end, if Bury Council can influence EFL decisions? Should we expect Manchester or Liverpool or Birmingham councils speaking with the Premier League or FA to arrange that their team win the league/the cup that season?
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by NL Claret » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:27 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Councillor James Daly, what is his connection with Dale? How many £s does he expect Bury Council to be able to spend on buying a football club?

I'd assume one or two of Bury's councillors were supporters of their town club - which is not unreasonable - will they all have to remove themselves from any votes as they have an interest?

Where does this end, if Bury Council can influence EFL decisions? Should we expect Manchester or Liverpool or Birmingham councils speaking with the Premier League or FA to arrange that their team win the league/the cup that season?
I'd have a guess at no connection at all with Dale and for what it is worth, Daly is a Huddersfield Town fan.
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by NL Claret » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:12 am

Council voted against buying the ground / club which as a council tax payer in the borough is the correct decision. Instead they will look to find a suitable buyer.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:10 pm

Their MP James Frith keeps pushing for them to be in League 2 next season

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49776759" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HMRC however just want to see the back of them

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 0230373376" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:21 pm

It appears that Steve Dale is alive and as delusional as ever

https://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/2019/sept ... low-clubs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Dark Cloud » Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:34 pm

Another "piece" which ultimately says absolutely nothing whatsoever of substance. It's just words! How many times can he write that "given time we will get the truth out". Just write it Steve! And what pending legal actions are preventing him saying more? Are there actually any? One of the principle villains of the piece trying to (yet again) appear like a man of the people. Does anybody ever believe any of it?

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:44 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:Does anybody ever believe any of it?
I very much doubt it

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Andingle » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:52 am

Chester Perry wrote:It appears that Steve Dale is alive and as delusional as ever

https://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/2019/sept ... low-clubs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sounds like he wants his £1 back

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Andingle » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:02 am

"If we could have our academy status back whilst this unravels, we can continue to help the youth as it is unfair that they have been hurt by these unjust events."
How uninformed is he on the Football Club he owns ?
As soon as the club had their membership to the EFL removed , Academy contracts were void and all players had to be officially released, most are now registered with Cat 1 & 2 clubs along with the Academy staff.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by elwaclaret » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:13 am

Paul Waine wrote:Councillor James Daly, what is his connection with Dale? How many £s does he expect Bury Council to be able to spend on buying a football club?

I'd assume one or two of Bury's councillors were supporters of their town club - which is not unreasonable - will they all have to remove themselves from any votes as they have an interest?

Where does this end, if Bury Council can influence EFL decisions? Should we expect Manchester or Liverpool or Birmingham councils speaking with the Premier League or FA to arrange that their team win the league/the cup that season?
Not sure if I agree you but a fantastic argument, non the less.

Think a town like Bury has little enough going for it as Manchester spews all over it. Think of Bury most think of footy or the market. I think it should be considered a special case for that alone.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by duncandisorderly » Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:06 am

I know it's a bit old hat these days to criticise spelling and grammar, but that statement is so poorly written it's almost like he's a nigerian prince offering you a share of his inheritance.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:14 am

Dark Cloud wrote:Another "piece" which ultimately says absolutely nothing whatsoever of substance. It's just words! How many times can he write that "given time we will get the truth out". Just write it Steve! And what pending legal actions are preventing him saying more? Are there actually any? One of the principle villains of the piece trying to (yet again) appear like a man of the people. Does anybody ever believe any of it?
File under that "dossier" that super deluded Rovers fan had I think

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:48 pm

duncandisorderly wrote:I know it's a bit old hat these days to criticise spelling and grammar, but that statement is so poorly written it's almost like he's a nigerian prince offering you a share of his inheritance.
Virtually all of his statements have been that badly written
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:50 pm

ClaretTony wrote:All of his statements have been that badly written
corrected that for you CT
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:19 pm

Andingle wrote:"If we could have our academy status back whilst this unravels, we can continue to help the youth as it is unfair that they have been hurt by these unjust events."
How uninformed is he on the Football Club he owns ?
As soon as the club had their membership to the EFL removed , Academy contracts were void and all players had to be officially released, most are now registered with Cat 1 & 2 clubs along with the Academy staff.
We've recruited someone called Dee Moore who has joined our medical team. She was the lead sports rehabilitator at Bury. We've also signed Sam Unwin who I think is a first year scholar. He's been on the bench for the last two youth games.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Andingle » Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:00 pm

ClaretTony wrote:We've recruited someone called Dee Moore who has joined our medical team. She was the lead sports rehabilitator at Bury. We've also signed Sam Unwin who I think is a first year scholar. He's been on the bench for the last two youth games.
Indeed , Good player is Sam , ironically was at Burnley as an U8 but signed at Man.Utd at U9s and Bury signed him at U14s.
Burnley have got some good Academy players from Bury since the release , especially at U13s , including a very good U16 who was at Burnley from U7s, signed at U9s and released as an U11 when he then signed at Bury , now back at Burnley and played some games in Burys Youth Team as an U15 last season.
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:11 pm

absolutely no surprise - Bury will not be in League 2 next season

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49841324" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by claretdj » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:16 pm

Another kick in the teeth for Bury fc fans.. sad day indeed! :cry:

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:23 pm

No one was going to vote them in when they was no concrete plan on the table and with all the debt (which is increasing rapidly), fraud investigations and an owner who is probably only liked in his own mirror

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:32 pm

EFL statement

The EFL and its Member Clubs have determined a preferred direction of travel for how best to return the League to its full membership of 72 Clubs from the 2020/21 season. The discussions followed the withdrawal last month of Bury FC’s membership, which had the effect of reducing League One from 24 to 23 Clubs for the current campaign.

As previously confirmed, the number of relegation places in League One will reduce to three for this season. At a quarterly meeting of EFL Clubs today, discussions established an agreement in principle whereby only one Club, rather than the usual two, should be relegated from League Two to the National League at the end of the current season and the Board will now formulate proposals that will be brought forward for adoption by Clubs at a general meeting in due course. This would mean that both League One and League Two have a full complement of 24 Clubs for the 2020/21 season.

During today’s meeting, the EFL and its Member Clubs considered and debated a number of options, with all Clubs given the opportunity to air their views. The debate included consideration of the proposal submitted by the Bury FC Rescue Board for the Club to be admitted to League Two under new ownership in season 2020/21. Following in-depth discussions, it became clear that the proposal did not have the necessary support and that EFL Clubs favoured extending the existing principle of a reduction in relegation across all divisions as a means of returning to 72 Clubs now and for the future.

Debbie Jevans CBE, EFL Executive Chair, commented: “While we are saddened that Bury FC is no longer part of the EFL, the Board’s difficult decision to withdraw membership was only taken after every opportunity to find a resolution was exhausted. Since then, in recognition of the efforts made on behalf of the Club, the EFL has engaged with supporters’ groups, shared their submissions with our members and debated at length the issues raised.

“Following the discussion today, Clubs have established that the preferred direction of travel is to reduce relegation from League Two as a means of returning to 72 Clubs. The Clubs felt that, in a difficult situation, this approach maintains fairness for all members and upholds the principle of the football pyramid.”

In a separate discussion at today’s meeting, EFL Clubs gave their endorsement to the proposed appointment of Rick Parry as EFL Chairman. The appointment will now go forward for formal ratification at a general meeting.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Sausage » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:54 pm

This was the one of the biggest exercises in p!ssing into the wind in football history. The Football League bent over backwards to extend the deadlines again and again for Bury, to no avail, and yet is being accused of betrayal by people associated with Bury FC. You've got to wonder why the Bury FC Rescue Board thought an undertaking from Steve Dale to sell the club would carry any weight when none of the debts have been addressed and he has proven incapable of separating fact from fiction. It's no wonder the other 71 FL clubs want nothing to do with Bury.

The FL needs to change the rules to ensure that no football club can ever begin a season while in the midst on an insolvency event (either a CVA or administration). This will prevent clubs from routinely delaying going into admin until the end of a season and instead force them to resolve their issues during the course of a season, while taking points deductions that have some real impact on their league position. It will also give certainty to players and staff who could then look for new clubs.

I do feel sorry for the fans of Bury FC but the FL needed to make an example of an insolvent club sooner or later to prevent this sort of nonsense happening again and to force a change in governance within football.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:35 pm

As much as I have sympathy for their supporters, I’d have been amazed if they’d won this battle. I don’t believe the clubs had any choice but to reject their attempts to get back in the league.

Who will Dale blame now?

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:41 pm

Chester Perry wrote:No one was going to vote them in when they was no concrete plan on the table and with all the debt (which is increasing rapidly), fraud investigations and an owner who is probably only liked in his own mirror
I believe the mirror is no longer convinced
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Buxtonclaret » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:51 pm

It would have been a shock if Bury had got anywhere near winning this vote.
Really hope the FL....sorry EFL, take steps to see chancers of Dale's ilk are never allowed near football clubs again.
Won't hold my breath though.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Dark Cloud » Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:18 pm

Like most (on here and elsewhere) I have total sympathy for Bury's genuine and long suffering fans, but the EFL and the other member clubs had absolutely no choice and are not the enemy. Dale is and he is the reason (along with Day and maybe certain others) why they are in this mess. That's where the blame lies.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by thelaughingclaret » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:54 pm

With Bury there’s so many local MP’s, councillors and mayors trying to interfere with football matters and think that politics should run football. Why are these idiots given a platform? If we get relegated this season should we all complain to our MP and get them to write a letter to the premier league and get other politicians to intervene so we can try and stay up? Make some angry politicians think they can have any kind of say in what happened in football. Disgusting behaviour.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by tiger76 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:59 pm

ClaretTony wrote:As much as I have sympathy for their supporters, I’d have been amazed if they’d won this battle. I don’t believe the clubs had any choice but to reject their attempts to get back in the league.

Who will Dale blame now?
One thing is certain it won't be himself.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:11 am

@AndyhHolt gives the lowdown on why Bury will not play in League 2 next season - and it wasn't voted on - no need given the lack of a plan and strength of feeling

https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 6498735105" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by ElectroClaret » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:21 pm

Macclesfield Town players now claiming they haven't been paid for September. Club refusing to comment.
(Granada Reports).

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:26 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:Macclesfield Town players now claiming they haven't been paid for September. Club refusing to comment.
(Granada Reports).
That has happened almost every month this year - part of the reason Sol Campbell left - also have issues with HMRC amongst others - staved off a couple of winding up orders already and back at the high court again on the 23rd

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:23 pm

There will be some people who think some crooks have yet to be arrested - a big burglary at Steve Dales house - note the amount of ready cash and how long people at the club have gone unpaid

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/li ... d-17051921" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:47 am

Posted on the Magic Money Tree thread but also sits comfortably here

The Price of Football's first ever podcast - The demise of Bury

https://share.transistor.fm/s/cb5acec7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These charts make sad reading https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 5407208448" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:19 am

meanwhile the hope gets churned again

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... oenix-club" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:48 pm

Looks like Steve Dale treated himself to a long liquid lunch today

https://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/2019/octo ... m-bury-fc/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Dark Cloud » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:21 pm

I've said it before, but are there REALLY any outstanding/ongoing court cases??

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:54 pm

Chester Perry wrote:Looks like Steve Dale treated himself to a long liquid lunch today

https://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/2019/octo ... m-bury-fc/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I almost want to say the bloke has lost the plot completely but I'm not sure he ever had the plot.
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:02 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:I've said it before, but are there REALLY any outstanding/ongoing court cases??
yes High court next Wednesday for another review of the winding up petition from the HMRC

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:12 pm

I have to say I think @AndhHolt got this wrong today -

https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/11 ... 5835584520" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

no one should profiteer from the game like this

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by ElectroClaret » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:24 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:I've said it before, but are there REALLY any outstanding/ongoing court cases??
I think Macclesfield were in court this week, but it got adjourned. (Again)

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:09 am

The phoenix club is the way it seems to be going

https://twitter.com/BuryPhoenix/status/ ... 4967889922" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

though Bill Kenwright wanted to help save the club

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -1m-pounds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

well meaning stupidity - Dale would have laughed his head off

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by tiger76 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:25 am

In the circumstances a phoenix club seems their best option,at least in that scenario the power and decisions will be at the behest of fan groups,indivduals who have the clubs best interests at heart.

I guess their first major hurdle will be finding a stadium to play in,once they manage that,then the rest of the infrastructure can be slowly built over time.

This sorry tale should act as a wake-up call to the EFL,but i'm not holding my breath.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by NL Claret » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:03 pm

tiger76 wrote:In the circumstances a phoenix club seems their best option,at least in that scenario the power and decisions will be at the behest of fan groups,indivduals who have the clubs best interests at heart.

I guess their first major hurdle will be finding a stadium to play in,once they manage that,then the rest of the infrastructure can be slowly built over time.

This sorry tale should act as a wake-up call to the EFL,but i'm not holding my breath.
It would more than likely be a ground share with Radcliffe Borough.

There was a Legends v All Stars game there last Sunday which was 2000 all ticket sell out. The big issue is the pitch though.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:23 am

High Court give the club another 35 days to pay outstanding PAYE and file returns - back on 4th Dec

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:25 pm

Remarkably Dale was claiming he was paying PAYE on wages that he didn't pay at the High Court today

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 5341848584" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The extension is apparently to see if Bury have overpaid - you couldn't make it up

https://twitter.com/BBCRMsport/status/1 ... 2030048264" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:33 pm

A strange judgement from the DCMS following their hearing last month - smacks of political gamesmanship rather than any considered response

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... yers-staff" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I linked the hearing details on the Magic Money Tree thread at the time - you can watch it back here
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Ind ... 3ef941bac9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by whentheballmoves » Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:49 pm

A mate of mine is involved heavily in the foundation of a phoenix club. I believe primary discussions have taken place with some key organisations. Maybe they will ground share with Radcliffe. Time will tell. Fingers crossed for them. I'll update as and when I hear/can.

ElectroClaret
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by ElectroClaret » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:08 am

Macclesfield Town players "gone on strike" according to
BBC Fivelive after months of not being paid.

ElectroClaret
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by ElectroClaret » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:48 pm

Maccs game v Crewe tomorrow postponed, players refusing to play over yet more unpaid wages.

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