ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

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Cooclaret
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Cooclaret » Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:22 pm

FeedTheArf wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:37 pm
I'm all for investment in the club. ALK have done well in their recruitment, both in terms of players and management. But they've still got a long way to go to repay their debt to the club.
Christ on a bike…

Classic Burnley fan…
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by CoolClaret » Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:22 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:17 pm
I must admit if he walked past me in the street I wouldn’t know who he was. If you could equate him (in terms of standing and reputation in American football and the American public as a whole) to anyone in our football, who would it be?
Hard to say really because you have to be into the NFL to know JJ Watt I guess - he’s not transcended the sport like a Tom Brady but is massive in America.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by gandhisflipflop » Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:23 pm

Milltown1882 wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:19 pm
Kane, Haaland etc he’s a big deal.
Wow. That’s insane.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Cooclaret » Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:24 pm

Milltown1882 wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:47 pm
We’re practically promoted and some posters on here still want to continue the vendetta against the owners. Just let it go. They weren’t born in a BB postcode that’s fine, get on with it.
It’s becoming all a bit Royston Vasey on this board.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Milltown1882 » Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:25 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:55 pm
Wash your mouth out.

Even in the 4th division days, Burnley were far more attractive than that farce of a game, American Football.
Assuming that over 100million people were watching Burnley in the fourth division for that point to be anything but lunacy?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Stalbansclaret » Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:35 pm

The ALK masterplan is becoming clear to me now. Be so utterly dominant in the Championship that the 12 point penalty makes no difference , enter administration, see debt written down to 20p in the £ ….. relaunch in the PL debt-free. Bingo !
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Quickenthetempo » Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:35 pm

Milltown1882 wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:25 pm
Assuming that over 100million people were watching Burnley in the fourth division for that point to be anything but lunacy?
Double it

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Robbie_painter » Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:39 pm

daveisaclaret wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:09 pm
Sorry, I didn't realise his "investment" had got us a mention on talksport. You can't put a price on that.
Is there any need really?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:40 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:18 pm
We seem to be descending into fantasy world again.

There is very little risk in this deal to the investors they only invested £10 - £15 million of their own money and got an asset valued at £200 million.

Syndicates and other investors simply dilute the shareholding and potential returns - they have no need of them at this point. You can't on the one hand suggest that the debt is paid off and on the other that the investors need syndicate partners to reduce risk.

It was never going to be a short term deal because no one wanted the club. It required an LBO to sell it and the buyers immediately took £50 million of cash out of the bank and took on £65 million worth of debt.

The Venky's invest £20 million in Rovers, which is equivalent to Kevin De Bruyne's salary or our matchday and commercial revenue. Small scale investors are just that.... small scale.

Americans own 4 of the 6 global brands in the PL. One of them just bought Chelsea for 4.25 billion. And that is who we are playing next season.

Talk of syndicates, branding and exposure in America is like p*ssing in the ocean and thinking that you've raised the sea level.
but you've got to start somewhere Pete

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:52 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:40 pm
but you've got to start somewhere Pete
Some people forget that or don't want to start in the first place.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by williamjblazkowicz » Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:58 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:17 pm
I must admit if he walked past me in the street I wouldn’t know who he was. If you could equate him (in terms of standing and reputation in American football and the American public as a whole) to anyone in our football, who would it be?
Think of any of the best players in the history of football to have played their respective position and you’ve got J.J. Watt.

Very popular player who was one of the greatest to have played his position. Was the NFL’s defensive player of the year three times.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:27 pm

more JJ Wattery
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by 123EasyasBFC » Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:50 pm

Cooclaret wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:24 pm
It’s becoming all a bit Royston Vasey on this board.
Local club for local people

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:38 pm

123EasyasBFC wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:50 pm
Local club for local people
That must be some corporate twonk at the club 1 2 3 easy as BFC.......! Come on for real?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by 123EasyasBFC » Sat Mar 11, 2023 10:19 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:38 pm
That must be some corporate twonk at the club 1 2 3 easy as BFC.......! Come on for real?
I was referencing your Royston vasey comment… local shop for local people

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Sat Mar 11, 2023 10:47 pm

123EasyasBFC wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 10:19 pm
I was referencing your Royston vasey comment… local shop for local people
i didn't make the comment/ I am a local person supporting a local club - I don't ridicule myself.

Well not all the time anyway.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by 123EasyasBFC » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:08 am

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 10:47 pm
i didn't make the comment/ I am a local person supporting a local club - I don't ridicule myself.

Well not all the time anyway.
Nvm it was joke comment about league of gentleman which the made up town of Royston vasey is in. Not in any way a dig at someone being local

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Cooclaret » Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:18 am

123EasyasBFC wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 10:19 pm
I was referencing your Royston vasey comment… local shop for local people
I got it pal 😂

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by 123EasyasBFC » Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:49 am

Cooclaret wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:18 am
I got it pal 😂
Thanks, at least someone did
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by scouseclaret » Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:23 am

FeedTheArf wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:18 pm
Let’s not re-write history, HistoricalClaret. As KRBFC says, there’s many more millions to be repaid before they’re square in my book.
Think you’ll be waiting a long time. Whatever else they are, these guys are investors, not benefactors. They are here to make money from the club - much like the Glazers at Man U - not lavish millions on it. Also, debt is the cornerstone of how they operate - it’s why they’re called leveraged buy-outs - so it is likely there will always be some debt in the business.

None of this is necessarily bad for the club - is in everybody’s interests for it to be successful - but let’s not kid ourselves about what Pace & CO’s motivations are.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Cirrus_Minor » Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:48 am

The surname name of Chap reminds me of some of the cheap supermarket beers in plastic bottles. Known as 'chucking ale' because it was weak and wattery. I think these beers will now be referred to as JJs.

To a guest, "do you fancy a beer? It's from ASDA and you'll be reyt driving since its a bit JJ". :D

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Paul Waine » Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:20 pm

scouseclaret wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:23 am
Think you’ll be waiting a long time. Whatever else they are, these guys are investors, not benefactors. They are here to make money from the club - much like the Glazers at Man U - not lavish millions on it. Also, debt is the cornerstone of how they operate - it’s why they’re called leveraged buy-outs - so it is likely there will always be some debt in the business.

None of this is necessarily bad for the club - is in everybody’s interests for it to be successful - but let’s not kid ourselves about what Pace & CO’s motivations are.
I think all the fans want is a successful football team, playing exciting and entertaining football. Be great if the team can win something, maybe another season getting into Europe.

Yes, Alan Pace and his fellow investors will want to make money somewhere along the line.

Let's be pleased that running a successful team and making money can go "hand in hand." As most of us will never have the money to buy a football club ourselves, let's be happy someone wants to do it for the things that we fans also want.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by MrTopTier » Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:09 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:56 pm
A quick and hopefully single break of my Lenten fast of not posting

As you point out there is little commercial logic for a full repayment as a result of investment in the ownership group - people must always remember the owners are looking for investment in themselves not the club specifically, investment in ALK/Velocity is not investment in the club, neither for that matter is the repayment of loans the club made to Calder Vale Holdings Limited.

To my mind all this points to the MSD loan being replaced by a loan from Velocity Sports Partners LLC/Velocity Sports Limited (Jersey), in all probability dating back to mid-November last year. Whether it is a temporary one while a more suitable commercial one is found following promotion or for the long term is an intriguing question.

As an aside the owners late filing malaise has now infected our club, the Confirmation Statement for Burnley FC Women Limited is now 2 weeks late
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/13192796

BFCWL.JPG

Meanwhile the accounts for Calder Vale Holdings Limited are now officially over 6 months late and actually over 9 months late for their original due date, before it was extended by way of the owners application to Companies House
This is from the ALK thread posted on the 9th March by Chester Perry.

Should rename this thread Burnley fans go into meltdown. 😀

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by KRBFC » Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:41 pm

NJ Jets Tight End visited Turf Moor Yesterday, CJ Uzomah.

https://twitter.com/cfsldn/status/16349 ... 80738?s=20
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:08 pm

Another famous American sportsman that I have not heard of but, notwithstanding recent events, something exciting seems to be going on here with all these NFL stars using their reach to promote BFC.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Swizzlestick » Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:26 pm

Do these lads know their way around a Related Parties note?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:33 pm

Swizzlestick wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:26 pm
Do these lads know their way around a Related Parties note?
If what I think is happening - is actually happening, they will be happy enough with their returns

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:35 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:33 pm
If what I think is happening - is actually happening, they will be happy enough with their returns
What do you think is happening CP?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nonayforever » Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:53 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:35 pm
What do you think is happening CP?
Club being sold ?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Claretnick » Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:17 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:36 am
Don't forget back in November we saw changes on the Jersey stock exchange that suggested MSD had withdrawn the securities that we understand are associated with their loan to the club.
In light of today's club statement saying they changed auditors in November, is this just a coincidence or connected events?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:31 pm

Claretnick wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:17 pm
In light of today's club statement saying they changed auditors in November, is this just a coincidence or connected events?
Unconnected I would imagine, but who knows. Whatever has been happening there’s a lot of changes taking place. Can’t imagine that makes the accounts easy to finalise.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Paul Waine » Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:42 pm

Claretnick wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:17 pm
In light of today's club statement saying they changed auditors in November, is this just a coincidence or connected events?
There may be a connection, though not necessarily a direct connection.

I'm speculating, nothing more: ALK achieve new funds to clear (pay off) MSD debt in full; these changes extend the international nature of the group that owns the club; old Haslingden auditors say that they don't have experience/capability to audit international group; therefore old auditors can't complete the planned audit; new auditors need to be found...

It appears, from Chester's post on embargo thread, that EFL require group accounts. I don't know if this came as surprise. The old group was only BFCHL. New group probably includes Velocity Sports Jersey, possibly even Velocity Sports US including ALK Capital as managing partner. However, I'm not legally knowledgeable of the US entities and whether they could be group parent entity.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by COBBLE » Sun Mar 12, 2023 11:21 pm

A small local auditor is not appropriate for the sophisticated and complex business as BFC in its various guises now is because potential investors will be put off by that fact. The finance structure is beyond that of a local business.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:16 am

I thought I'd put it here to group it with the rest of the chat.
Ightenhill_Claret wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:29 am
I did have a quick search back to see if this had been flagged but on one of my frequent trawls around Companies House, I noticed that Mssrs Pace, Hunt and Smith had set up another company which was incorporated on March 24 - VELOCITY CAPITAL (UK) HOLDINGS LTD.

Presume this is to replace VELOCITY SPORTS PARTNERS LIMITED which is in the middle of being struck off.

Pace is listed as the person with significant control (more than 50% but less than 75%).

Not sure what the significance is but just thought it was interesting.
Well spotted. Also have no idea what the significance is. Slight difference is that VELOCITY SPORTS PARTNERS LIMITED was owned by the Delaware company (Velocity Sports Partners LLC) whereas VELOCITY CAPITAL (UK) HOLDINGS LTD is owned by the Jersey company (Velocity Sports Limited).

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Spijed » Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:25 am

Without understanding any of this. What are the benefits of starting up new companies and/or allowing others to close down?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Ightenhill_Claret » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:01 pm

Thanks Aggi - should have posted on this thread in hindsight.

☺️

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:35 pm

Another quick break (as allowed) to the Lenten fast
Ightenhill_Claret wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:29 am
I did have a quick search back to see if this had been flagged but on one of my frequent trawls around Companies House, I noticed that Mssrs Pace, Hunt and Smith had set up another company which was incorporated on March 24 - VELOCITY CAPITAL (UK) HOLDINGS LTD.

Presume this is to replace VELOCITY SPORTS PARTNERS LIMITED which is in the middle of being struck off.

Pace is listed as the person with significant control (more than 50% but less than 75%).

Not sure what the significance is but just thought it was interesting.
I take it, that it is just easier/cheaper to create a new company under ownership/control of one in Jersey than switch control from Delaware to Jersey. For some of us there is intrigue around the purpose for this - could the holdings in Player Lens Limited (which appears to be dying a slow death with the growth of TransferRoom appearing to be much more what the market wants - https://archive.is/5aU7W) and Project 23rd Century Ltd (AiScout) be transferred to this new entity?

anyhow here is my take on the new corporate structure - for now I see external investment only in Velocity Sports Partners LLC
ALK-VSL Structure March 24 2023.JPG
ALK-VSL Structure March 24 2023.JPG (58.09 KiB) Viewed 1731 times
Paul Waine wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:42 pm
There may be a connection, though not necessarily a direct connection.

I'm speculating, nothing more: ALK achieve new funds to clear (pay off) MSD debt in full; these changes extend the international nature of the group that owns the club; old Haslingden auditors say that they don't have experience/capability to audit international group; therefore old auditors can't complete the planned audit; new auditors need to be found...

It appears, from Chester's post on embargo thread, that EFL require group accounts. I don't know if this came as surprise. The old group was only BFCHL. New group probably includes Velocity Sports Jersey, possibly even Velocity Sports US including ALK Capital as managing partner. However, I'm not legally knowledgeable of the US entities and whether they could be group parent entity.
Paul will have already read this in the London Clarets Magazine but this is my latest contribution to the London Clarets Magazine - Something to write home about - which was well under way when that March 12th statement fed into its final shape, they have decided to make it free to all to read -(though I would not have framed it in the way they have in this thread)

https://twitter.com/LondonClarets/statu ... 0268922886

hopefully the final paragraph will resonate with some of you

and for the sake of completeness - that article refers to my previous one (from early January this year) which was also shared by the London Clarets just a few weeks ago - and again I would not have framed it in the way they have

https://twitter.com/LondonClarets/statu ... 7467284491


I will be back in a few weeks

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:45 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:35 pm
Another quick break (as allowed) to the Lenten fast

Paul will have already read this in the London Clarets Magazine but this is my latest contribution to the London Clarets Magazine - Something to write home about - which was well under way when that March 12th statement fed into its final shape, they have decided to make it free to all to read -(though I would not have framed it in the way they have in this thread)

https://twitter.com/LondonClarets/statu ... 0268922886

hopefully the final paragraph will resonate with some of you

I will be back in a few weeks
Enjoy your lenten break, CP. The latest edition of Something to Write Home About dropped through my letter box a couple of days ago. I've now read your article. Sorry, I'm shaking my head at some of the speculations you express re the club's finances and the appointment of new auditors. My expectation of the relationship between ALK (US) and VSP (US) is that ALK (US) is the managing partner of the investment(s) made by VSP (US) in BFC (via all the intermediate entities). I don't think any investors in VSP (US) will have a claim to be appointed as directors of BFC. That's not to say that any of those that have got something to offer as directors won't be appointed as directors. But, investors in VSP (US) will be looking to ALK (US) to be the directors of BFC and manage the partnerships investment in BFC on their behalf. I also don't think you've got it right re the investors in VSP (US) requiring regular and frequent returns. I think it would be entirely consistent that JJ Watt and others are looking for a capital gain on their investment in a few years time on their share of the ALK (US)/VSP (US) investment in BFC. If JJ Watt and others require cash returns in the meantime, they will draw this from other income and other investments in their respective portfolios. As for the appointment of new auditors - I posted a few comments on the "Accounts" thread that appears to have been deleted - Azets are a Nordic accounting group, offices in Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland in addition to UK. Azets have no presence in the US, so are unlikely to meet the needs of any US owned group. I expect the new auditors will be a firm that has got decent name recognition and reputation in the US, as well as being well known in the UK. I don't think this means it will be a Big 4 audit group. I guess we will learn more in the next few weeks.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:55 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:35 pm
I will be back in a few weeks
Enjoy your break CP.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:54 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:45 pm
Enjoy your lenten break, CP. The latest edition of Something to Write Home About dropped through my letter box a couple of days ago. I've now read your article. Sorry, I'm shaking my head at some of the speculations you express re the club's finances and the appointment of new auditors. My expectation of the relationship between ALK (US) and VSP (US) is that ALK (US) is the managing partner of the investment(s) made by VSP (US) in BFC (via all the intermediate entities). I don't think any investors in VSP (US) will have a claim to be appointed as directors of BFC. That's not to say that any of those that have got something to offer as directors won't be appointed as directors. But, investors in VSP (US) will be looking to ALK (US) to be the directors of BFC and manage the partnerships investment in BFC on their behalf. I also don't think you've got it right re the investors in VSP (US) requiring regular and frequent returns. I think it would be entirely consistent that JJ Watt and others are looking for a capital gain on their investment in a few years time on their share of the ALK (US)/VSP (US) investment in BFC. If JJ Watt and others require cash returns in the meantime, they will draw this from other income and other investments in their respective portfolios. As for the appointment of new auditors - I posted a few comments on the "Accounts" thread that appears to have been deleted - Azets are a Nordic accounting group, offices in Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland in addition to UK. Azets have no presence in the US, so are unlikely to meet the needs of any US owned group. I expect the new auditors will be a firm that has got decent name recognition and reputation in the US, as well as being well known in the UK. I don't think this means it will be a Big 4 audit group. I guess we will learn more in the next few weeks.
Always interesting to get a response from you Paul, and this is not the first time you have had such a reaction - though I thought I had made it clear that the scenarios were speculative, with some being more plausible - the ALK/VSL terms of reference in its business side communications - than others

you will find the suggestion of wanting a directorship was directly associated to a scenario for a staged takeover

As for JJ Watt - this is what he had to say recently (after his visit to Turf Moor) about how he is surprised by the small returns and incomes he is being offered in the various business meetings he has been partaking in since retirement, the telling bit comes from 1:45 in - there is some genuine surprise/disappointment in there along with his jocularity

https://twitter.com/PatMcAfeeShow/statu ... 9544127488

As for the New auditor - I saw the thread you mention before it was deleted - my information is that they have been in place since early November (some 20 weeks ago now) and as you would expect, it is a business that has an established relationship with ALK, this one going back at least to advising on the takeover

https://www.bdo.co.uk/en-gb/deals/deals ... lk-capital

One question has to be, why did this take so long to enact given that the rules should have been known since last summer, at the latest?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by RVclaret » Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:14 am

Regarding accounts, Kieran Maguire suggesting 9 PL clubs yet to submit their accounts to Companies House with a 48 hour deadline. He doesn’t mention us in there and I’m wondering why, as he does mention Watford:

https://twitter.com/kieranmaguire/statu ... 59Piho1d6w

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Tall Paul » Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:21 am

RVclaret wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:14 am
Regarding accounts, Kieran Maguire suggesting 9 PL clubs yet to submit their accounts to Companies House with a 48 hour deadline. He doesn’t mention us in there and I’m wondering why, as he does mention Watford:

https://twitter.com/kieranmaguire/statu ... 59Piho1d6w
Because Burnley's Companies House deadline is 30 April, not 31 March.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by jtv » Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:37 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:54 am
As for JJ Watt - this is what he had to say recently (after his visit to Turf Moor) about how he is surprised by the small returns and incomes he is being offered in the various business meetings he has been partaking in since retirement,
I haven't listened to the conversation in the link. Does this mean that JJ has NOT invested?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:40 am

RVclaret wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:14 am
Regarding accounts, Kieran Maguire suggesting 9 PL clubs yet to submit their accounts to Companies House with a 48 hour deadline. He doesn’t mention us in there and I’m wondering why, as he does mention Watford:

https://twitter.com/kieranmaguire/statu ... 59Piho1d6w
Companies House filings are due 9 months after y/end date. BFC y/end is 31st July, so accounts due at Companies House by 30th April.

The club changed y/end date from 30th June to 31st July in 2020 when the lockdown suspension of the Premier League delayed the end of the season until sometime in July. Most/all other PL clubs retained 30th June y/ends - and then some have played around with what we covid-19 losses etc.

With BFC up for sale at the time it was probably very important to have a clean, season end set of audited accounts completed for the previous season.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by RVclaret » Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:47 am

jtv wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:37 am
I haven't listened to the conversation in the link. Does this mean that JJ has NOT invested?
No idea on investment from him but he can’t take his BFC cap off on all his videos since he came over!

https://twitter.com/jjwatt/status/16412 ... 59Piho1d6w

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:59 am

RVclaret wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:47 am
No idea on investment from him but he can’t take his BFC cap off on all his videos since he came over!

https://twitter.com/jjwatt/status/16412 ... 59Piho1d6w
Was just about to say that RV. Amazing to see!

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:04 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:54 am
Always interesting to get a response from you Paul.

As for the New auditor - I saw the thread you mention before it was deleted - my information is that they have been in place since early November (some 20 weeks ago now) and as you would expect, it is a business that has an established relationship with ALK, this one going back at least to advising on the takeover

https://www.bdo.co.uk/en-gb/deals/deals ... lk-capital

One question has to be, why did this take so long to enact given that the rules should have been known since last summer, at the latest?
Hi CP, how long have you had the link to this BDO presser on assisting with acquisition due diligence? I'd imagine they published it sometime early in 2021. I don't recall this being mentioned in any of your excellent articles or posts on here. (Maybe I am forgetful).

Yes, BDO fit the profile of auditors that I have described, having offices, experience and reputation in both UK and US.

I'm not sure the change in auditors has "taken so long." The are protocols in changing auditors. The previous Haslingden firm have held the role for a number of years. I'm not sure when the Haslingden firm became part of Azets, I understand the latter have been in UK since 2016. Protocol would start with a discussion with Azets about their capabilities to audit the wider group. Maybe Azets said they'd like the chance to demonstrate their capabilities? Maybe Azets and two or three other firms were asked to quote for the work? Maybe Azets ruled themselves out of being capable to have the necessary "name recognition" in the US and they weren't involved in bidding for the new audit appointment and two or three other firms were involved? I'd imagine appointment of new auditors can often extend over a 6 months period. At the end of this process the resigning/retiring auditors will write a letter to the new auditors. The letter will either declare that they, the previous auditors, have and know of no concerns with the company's accounts. Or, they are bound to write describing any concerns that they do have - if any such concerns exist. This gives the new auditor the opportunity to decline to take on the audit responsibility. As new auditors have accepted their appointment as auditors we can be confident that Azets wrote the letter saying they had no concerns and that there are no accounting issues related to BFC accounts.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:29 am

BDO would be a reasonable shout for auditor, as I said elsewhere I'd be surprised if if was a big 4 for a number of reasons.

I'm not sure if I buy the name recognition and US expertise argument (there's no Sarbox for instance which could have been a big issue). If it is BDO (or a similar one) the UK and US entities are very separate so info will still mainly be by audit questionnaire, etc in order to limit liability.

Taking 6 months (May to November) to appoint new auditors when you are aware of deadlines seems strange. It's something you can normally do in a month or so. My guesses, and they are absolute guesses, is that either work started with Azets for this year and then a late decision to change was made or AML and KYC procedures held up the new engagement (or a combination of both).

As new auditors have accepted their appointment as auditors we can be confident that Azets wrote the letter saying they had no concerns and that there are no accounting issues related to BFC accounts.

We can be confident that the new auditors viewed the issues as surmountable I think would be a more accurate take, I wouldn't hazard a guess as to whether anything was flagged or not.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:42 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:54 am

As for JJ Watt - this is what he had to say recently (after his visit to Turf Moor) about how he is surprised by the small returns and incomes he is being offered in the various business meetings he has been partaking in since retirement, the telling bit comes from 1:45 in - there is some genuine surprise/disappointment in there along with his jocularity

https://twitter.com/PatMcAfeeShow/statu ... 9544127488
Wow, CP. all JJ Watt says is that top, top, sports people earn a lot more for playing their sport than (most) other people earn in other areas of life. There's no "telling bit..from 1.45 in" or anywhere else in that clip. He doesn't mention "returns" either small or otherwise. He just says you get paid a lot more for tackling people than you get paid in business.

Good to see JJ Watt has still got his BFC cap. It suits him.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:01 am

aggi wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:29 am
BDO would be a reasonable shout for auditor, as I said elsewhere I'd be surprised if if was a big 4 for a number of reasons.

I'm not sure if I buy the name recognition and US expertise argument (there's no Sarbox for instance which could have been a big issue). If it is BDO (or a similar one) the UK and US entities are very separate so info will still mainly be by audit questionnaire, etc in order to limit liability.

Taking 6 months (May to November) to appoint new auditors when you are aware of deadlines seems strange. It's something you can normally do in a month or so. My guesses, and they are absolute guesses, is that either work started with Azets for this year and then a late decision to change was made or AML and KYC procedures held up the new engagement (or a combination of both).

As new auditors have accepted their appointment as auditors we can be confident that Azets wrote the letter saying they had no concerns and that there are no accounting issues related to BFC accounts.

We can be confident that the new auditors viewed the issues as surmountable I think would be a more accurate take, I wouldn't hazard a guess as to whether anything was flagged or not.
Hi aggi, I'm not talking about technical stuff like Sarbox, I'm just talking about potential investors wanting to know who BFC's auditors are. A firm that has many offices in the US is much more likely to tick this box than a Nordic firm. Of course, it may well be that the new auditors, whether BDO or another firm, will also be the auditors of the whole ALK (US)/VSP (US) group, including BFC.

I doubt looking at appointing new auditors started in May, there were several much more important things to deal with in May, June, July and August. The last game of the season was 22nd May and, as we all know, the club was relegated. So, priorities: (1) negotiate with MSD on loan repayments; (2) negotiate with Vincent Kompany to appoint him as manager; (3) outgoing transfers to be negotiated; (4) negotiate with Macquarie for loans to cover the deferred parts of outgoing sales; (5) Sort budget for Vincent Kompany's incoming transfers.

I doubt any of us would have been impressed if Alan Pace had explained in his first programme notes in August that the first thing the club had done was appoint new auditors. It comes nowhere near the top of the club's priorities. Getting it done in the background and completed by November is fine in my book. I doubt Azets had started any of the audit for the previous year end by then. Yes, I know y/end date 31st July. But, do you think they'd be rushing into the club over the summer months - the audited accounts have got several months to be be prepared. OK, this year, the club missed the EFL's deadline - but all the important stuff that really matters has been magnificently sorted.

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