ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

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KRBFC
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by KRBFC » Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:56 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:27 pm
The club is currently a creditor to VSL (it has loaned VSL) via its subsidiaries Kettering Capital Limited and Calder Vale Holdings Limited of £144.5m:
So the final total is £165m the club is worse off? Truly shocking how much we've been drained.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:07 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:17 pm
Interestingly squad values do not really form part of the equation in the valuing of a club in all the various methods I have seen and reported on

The external debt is currently less than £33m for the club and £54m for the VSL group (notice that transfer commitments in and out are rarely mentioned in that discussion)

There are still two more seasons of Parachute Payments if we do not go up and it is on record that under a second consecutive season in the EFL there is a further debt reduction payment required, before that second season begins - my guess would be the MSD loan would drop to £15m outstanding
I think most clubs are valued on multiples of revenue and possibly the value of net assets but that becomes a negotiation based upon a number of factors, which must include the value of the squad.

I doubt whether anyone would buy the club and be unaware that there are 4/5 loanees in the first team that would likely need purchasing should we promoted. Aspects of due diligence would cover risk to the purchaser and would form a consideration in the purchase even if not within the sale price.

As you say it became part of MSDs due diligence when offering the loan agreement.

Does the £54 million include the £33 million. I presume it does and that does not include a batch of shares owned by the former owners.

I'm not sure the debt of the club is relevant because I don't see that the group has other means to be able to sell the club as an entity in its own right.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:11 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:56 pm
So the final total is £165m the club is worse off? Truly shocking how much we've been drained.
not sure how you are deriving your figure - mine is the current debt of VSL to Burnley FC Holdings Limited, it does not include the cost of servicing the MSD loan interest payments of the capital reduction from the summer

so, if we ignore the MSD loan pass through

there is around £123.5m been extracted from the clubs cashflow to date since the takeover
- £23m on the down payment
- £51m on stage payments
- £5.5m on the small shareholders shares
- £9m on MSD interest and
- £35m+ on the MSD capital reduction with penalties

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:14 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:12 pm
Hi CP, does MSD charge fees when it makes the loans? I can't see any mention of fee income in MSD a/cs at 31-Dec-2020. If there had been a fee then it would be accounted for as income in MSD's a/cs and would be reported as an expense in BFC's a/cs (assuming a fee was payable by BFC). MSD's a/cs report FX Translation net gain. Note 2 (h) explains that whereas the presentation currency is USD, the functional currency is GBP - and loans are made in GBP and Euro. Funding to MSD from the offshore entity is received in the same currency as the loan. Thus, MSD has nothing to convert between GBP (and Euro, respectively) and USD. Exchange rates on the dates the loans are made are not relevant. GBP loans in MSD's books are translated to USD at the exchange rate applicable on 31st Dec 2020.

EDIT: Key terms are (i) translation and (ii) conversion. Plus (iii) presentation currency and (iv) functional currency.
Thanks Paul

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Sun Nov 06, 2022 9:30 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:17 pm
Interestingly squad values do not really form part of the equation in the valuing of a club in all the various methods I have seen and reported on

The external debt is currently less than £33m for the club and £54m for the VSL group (notice that transfer commitments in and out are rarely mentioned in that discussion)

There are still two more seasons of Parachute Payments if we do not go up and it is on record that under a second consecutive season in the EFL there is a further debt reduction payment required, before that second season begins - my guess would be the MSD loan would drop to £15m outstanding
Yes, generally not. As others have said, it's too nebulous a figure given injuries, Bosmans, falling out of favour, etc.

Plus, generally, very few clubs make consistent profits on player trading so, in the long run, if you aren't planning on stripping the assets or running the club down you need to replace the players you have sold.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:45 pm

The accounts add the caveat that the ongoing viability with the group is underpinned by key judgements on player trading, which are "subject to a significant degree of uncertainty".

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nonayforever » Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:52 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:01 pm
just to add the 'charge' for the MSD loan does contain clauses that allow them to force the club into selling assets (including players) and to have first call on any profits from player sales if there is a default on interest or capital payments
That is essentially what I was expressing with the squad value.
Taking into account outstanding fees etc for the players transfers, I would imagine the net equity in the squad is somewhere around the 28m euro mark. That is a relatively small get out of jail card.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Nov 10, 2022 10:38 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:31 pm


....You've got to remember that ALK Capital LLC and Velocity Sports Partners LLC are both partnerships, Velocity Sports Partners LLC being a unit of ALK Capital LLC. Neither entity is a corporation in US state law, so neither can be described as the "parent company" of BFCHL (or any other entity). Alan Pace is the managing partner of ALK Capital LLC. Hence "an ultimate controlling party" of BFCHL.
I have just remembered this post having read this article

The following was posted to the MMT thread but probably fits here if we consider the above context and want to increase our understanding


This is an interesting article in the Athletics Sports Business section, not least because it makes reference to Limited Partnerships and the secrecy that is/can be involved in them - no one in the general public may ever know, This is important because it is a possible/probable route for new external investment in our club (if that ever happens)

Liverpool FC, Commanders, Nationals and more: Why so many teams are being shopped
https://archive.ph/YLvky
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:10 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 10:38 am
I have just remembered this post having read this article

The following was posted to the MMT thread but probably fits here if we consider the above context and want to increase our understanding


This is an interesting article in the Athletics Sports Business section, not least because it makes reference to Limited Partnerships and the secrecy that is/can be involved in them - no one in the general public may ever know, This is important because it is a possible/probable route for new external investment in our club (if that ever happens)

Liverpool FC, Commanders, Nationals and more: Why so many teams are being shopped
https://archive.ph/YLvky
One of the interesting things there is how high the revenue multiples for valuations in American sports are compared to England. Looks like it may be starting to catch up with Chelsea and Liverpool valuations but if you compare the valuation of Burnley compared to compared to the Pittsburgh Penguins or Phoenix Suns there is a vast difference. Obviously a large part of that is the risk of relegation and the associated impact but you can see why an American buyer like Pace could think there is value to be had in buying Burnley.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:56 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:10 pm
One of the interesting things there is how high the revenue multiples for valuations in American sports are compared to England. Looks like it may be starting to catch up with Chelsea and Liverpool valuations but if you compare the valuation of Burnley compared to compared to the Pittsburgh Penguins or Phoenix Suns there is a vast difference. Obviously a large part of that is the risk of relegation and the associated impact but you can see why an American buyer like Pace could think there is value to be had in buying Burnley.
What we don't see is the value and depth of the professional/semi-professional minor leagues in the US, though a number of those teams are owned by the major league outfits - in a system close to the B team scenario you see in Spain and now in Scotland. This makes it hard to make a comparison or even a half-way house version of one, which we could then accommodate for valuations for clubs like ours and many others that can and have journeyed up and down the league structure

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:28 pm

I don't really see what Alan Pace saw in the club other than the ability to buy a club for virtually nothing....

The rationale of a club centred on a holistic football approach with Dyche didn't work out and nor did the idea that the club would be part of a portfolio of sports related software products, which amounted to little.

There is no business model other than the one inherited and no investment secured.

Did he really think he could make a business trading players or being better at running the football side of things than anyone else?

I guess if he has the usual instincts of a trader and a big pair he may well have felt that £15 million quid for a punt at the PL was worth it.

And it might work because while the highly rated name managers have been sacked or moved on VK has performed a miracle.

Even so, if the club cannot develop a new business model that secures revenue streams additional to the organic matchday ones then long term nothing has been achieved.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by dsr » Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:41 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:10 pm
One of the interesting things there is how high the revenue multiples for valuations in American sports are compared to England. Looks like it may be starting to catch up with Chelsea and Liverpool valuations but if you compare the valuation of Burnley compared to compared to the Pittsburgh Penguins or Phoenix Suns there is a vast difference. Obviously a large part of that is the risk of relegation and the associated impact but you can see why an American buyer like Pace could think there is value to be had in buying Burnley.
American sports clubs make profits. They have revenue sharing, and safety from relegation, and in some cases maximum spending on wages, all of which is designed to ensure they can't not make profits. Yes, there is the vanity element of owning a club as well, but essentially American owners buy clubs because they expect to make money.

Pace (IMO) bought BFC for the same reason. He could buy a PL club for about £15m cash down with, if all went badly, nothing further to pay; and, if all went well, sell it for a fat profit.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:08 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 10:38 am
I have just remembered this post having read this article

The following was posted to the MMT thread but probably fits here if we consider the above context and want to increase our understanding


This is an interesting article in the Athletics Sports Business section, not least because it makes reference to Limited Partnerships and the secrecy that is/can be involved in them - no one in the general public may ever know, This is important because it is a possible/probable route for new external investment in our club (if that ever happens)

Liverpool FC, Commanders, Nationals and more: Why so many teams are being shopped
https://archive.ph/YLvky
Great article to post, CP.

I like the "ocean boulevard properties" analogy. That's what the Premier League clubs are with the big clubs that are very unlikely to get relegated in the prime positions on their "ocean boulevard." The clubs in the lower reaches of the EPL and those with reasonable aspirations to get into the EPL are either sitting on the outer edges of "Ocean Boulevard" or are in the blocks behind the prime properties.

Interesting to see all the references to LPs plus get a little insight into how much of a churn there is in US (and Canada) sports clubs. Also interesting to read a little about "sports investment banks." No doubt Alan Pace and his colleagues are very familiar with this scene. I wouldn't be surprised if Vincent Kompany includes a little of this stuff in his background reading,

UTC

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:33 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:56 pm
What we don't see is the value and depth of the professional/semi-professional minor leagues in the US, though a number of those teams are owned by the major league outfits - in a system close to the B team scenario you see in Spain and now in Scotland. This makes it hard to make a comparison or even a half-way house version of one, which we could then accommodate for valuations for clubs like ours and many others that can and have journeyed up and down the league structure
On the depth of sport and valuations in the US point - these valuations from Sportico.com for 32 NHL franchises - NHL being the fourth ranked sport after NFL, NBA and MLB with MLS coming up quickly in 5th place - make for interesting contemplation

https://www.sportico.com/feature/nhl-te ... 234693065/

the feature story that supports the table is here

https://archive.ph/4Gecb

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:20 am

So, for the 2nd time this year Calder Vale Holdings Limited - the ALK vehicle that directly controls our club and which has received all those related company loans from the club - has been issued a First Gazette Notice for compulsory strike off * The accounts are almost 2 months overdue

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

I expect ALK Capital Limited and Velocity Sports Limited to follow very quickly as they have both Accounts and Confirmation Statements overdue
ALK Capital
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/12880549
Velocity
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/12880579

If nothing is filed in the next few weeks at Kettering Capital Limited it will surely follow the same course
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/12975630

all very sloppy management you have to say

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:20 pm

This is very interesting

- according to TISE the remaining £32,762,013.75 capital loan outstanding with MSD was cancelled on November 17 2022 - that could suggest that they have been paid off, but I must stress that it is not definitive that his is what has happened

https://tisegroup.com/market/companies/8061

given this was 9 days ago you would expect that if it was paid off there would have been an announcement of about it and more importantly that the associated 'Charge' on Kettering Capital Limited, Calder Vale Holdings Limited Burnley FC Holdings Limited, Burnley Football and Athletic Club Limited, Longside Properties Limited would be registered as 'satisfied' - at present this is not the case - all the above show the charge as 'outstanding'

Of course, it wasn't that long ago that the Daily Mail ran a piece saying the club were actively seeking a refinancing deal - that articled cited Aldermore as being the favoured institution for such a deal. There are no new charges on any of the above companies so it may be that a refinancing deal has been struck with MSD or simply that MSD themselves are restructuring how they are managing the loan internally.

One thing we do know is that it looks like a key public indicator of the club's financial actions and liabilities is no longer available to us

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:24 pm

Interesting

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nonayforever » Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:06 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:20 am
So, for the 2nd time this year Calder Vale Holdings Limited - the ALK vehicle that directly controls our club and which has received all those related company loans from the club - has been issued a First Gazette Notice for compulsory strike off * The accounts are almost 2 months overdue

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

I expect ALK Capital Limited and Velocity Sports Limited to follow very quickly as they have both Accounts and Confirmation Statements overdue
ALK Capital
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/12880549
Velocity
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/12880579

If nothing is filed in the next few weeks at Kettering Capital Limited it will surely follow the same course
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/12975630

all very sloppy management you have to say
Don't know about sloppy. Probably more intentional.
The figures will all be there by the accountants within the company. It's the pulling together by the directors or an audit which are holding up publishing.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:11 pm

Nonayforever wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:06 pm
Don't know about sloppy. Probably more intentional.
The figures will all be there by the accountants within the company. It's the pulling together by the directors or an audit which are holding up publishing.
there are enough people on this board who think I am deliberately inflammatory in regard to the actions of Pace so I chose to not go down those routes of speculation - however reasonable and appropriate some of us may think them to be.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:28 pm

Have to say, I thought news that our debt had been “cancelled” might’ve prompted more discussion…

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:37 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:28 pm
Have to say, I thought news that our debt had been “cancelled” might’ve prompted more discussion…
To be specific it is not our debt - it is MSD's offsetting of our Debt to its MSD related partners in the Caymans - this mechanism is just a tax efficient method of moving repayments (and interest back to the parent)

I have used the values as indicators of the club's own position with MSD because they original £65m was intrinsically linked to the agreement with Calder Vale Holdings Limited before it was passed to Burnley Football and Athletic Club Limited

This is why I suggest that it may not be linked to a full repayment a suggestion backed up by the fact that the charges have not been stated as 'satisfied'

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:58 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:37 pm
To be specific it is not our debt - it is MSD's offsetting of our Debt to its MSD related partners in the Caymans - this mechanism is just a tax efficient method of moving repayments (and interest back to the parent)

I have used the values as indicators of the club's own position with MSD because they original £65m was intrinsically linked to the agreement with Calder Vale Holdings Limited before it was passed to Burnley Football and Athletic Club Limited

This is why I suggest that it may not be linked to a full repayment a suggestion backed up by the fact that the charges have not been stated as 'satisfied'
Fair point Chester, but basically the options are:

1. we’ve repaid the debt having secured investment
2. we’ve refinanced with another institution
3. we’ve refinanced with MSD
4. MSD have restructured how they provide the finance

1 would be brilliant news, 2-3 are indifferent but represent a show of confidence and potentially removes the onerous “continuing relegation scenario” clause from kicking in, 4 neither here nor there. It’s definitely not bad news, anyway, and is undoubtedly interesting - somethings going on.

Anyone know how soon charges have to be updated with CH? I imagine its typical for there to be delays?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:04 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:58 pm
Fair point Chester, but basically the options are:

1. we’ve repaid the debt having secured investment
2. we’ve refinanced with another institution
3. we’ve refinanced with MSD
4. MSD have restructured how they provide the finance

1 would be brilliant news, 2-3 are indifferent but represent a show of confidence and potentially removes the onerous “continuing relegation scenario” clause from kicking in, 4 neither here nor there. It’s definitely not bad news, anyway, and is undoubtedly interesting - somethings going on.

Anyone know how soon charges have to be updated with CH? I imagine its typical for there to be delays?
In financing situations my understanding is that it has to be very quick, particularly if a new charge is being placed on a company. On that basis I am inclined to dismiss 1 and 2. For now I am more inclined to go with 4

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:10 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:04 pm
In financing situations my understanding is that it has to be very quick, particularly if a new charge is being placed on a company. On that basis I am inclined to dismiss 1 and 2. For now I am more inclined to go with 4
Can anyone second CP’s view on that?

Will be interesting to see how things develop anyway…

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:13 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:10 pm
Can anyone second CP’s view on that?

Will be interesting to see how things develop anyway…
indeed it will, and a good question to ask - there are a number of posters who will be better informed on that point

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Quickenthetempo » Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:58 pm

Vincent Kompany mentioned the club were using the 42 million pound parachute payment to pay off the loan (at the beginning of the season).
Maybe that has just arrived? And been used?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:12 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:58 pm
Vincent Kompany mentioned the club were using the 42 million pound parachute payment to pay off the loan (at the beginning of the season).
Maybe that has just arrived? And been used?
and how do you explain the £35m - £38m to MSD in the summer to MSD including penalties and the £20m - £25m in the autumn to the former owners together with the running costs at the club and the outgoing transfer costs. Particularly given that parachute payments are paid over the course of a season. I will give you that there is a large upfront elemnt but unlikely to even constitute half the total

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Quickenthetempo » Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:24 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:12 am
and how do you explain the £35m - £38m to MSD in the summer to MSD including penalties and the £20m - £25m in the autumn to the former owners together with the running costs at the club and the outgoing transfer costs. Particularly given that parachute payments are paid over the course of a season. I will give you that there is a large upfront elemnt but unlikely to even constitute half the total
I rely on you lot on here to explain things.

I was just putting a maybe in there.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:07 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:12 am
and how do you explain the £35m - £38m to MSD in the summer to MSD including penalties and the £20m - £25m in the autumn to the former owners together with the running costs at the club and the outgoing transfer costs. Particularly given that parachute payments are paid over the course of a season. I will give you that there is a large upfront elemnt but unlikely to even constitute half the total
I think this might be one we’re not able to explain CP?? 🤔

Certainly at the moment anyway.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Big Vinny K » Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:55 am

NewClaret wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:10 pm
Can anyone second CP’s view on that?

Will be interesting to see how things develop anyway…
Charges by their nature have to be registered quickly and generally are in my experience.
If they were not registered quickly then it would open up a lot of potential fraud.
The part of the process that is usually time consuming is the work involved prior to registering the charge. And in recent times post Covid many areas of the country are experiencing serious delays with things like getting back local searches results and also a lack of resources / too much work in the legal sector etc.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:23 am

Big Vinny K wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:55 am
Charges by their nature have to be registered quickly and generally are in my experience.
If they were not registered quickly then it would open up a lot of potential fraud.
The part of the process that is usually time consuming is the work involved prior to registering the charge. And in recent times post Covid many areas of the country are experiencing serious delays with things like getting back local searches results and also a lack of resources / too much work in the legal sector etc.
I read that last night - that if they’re not added within 21 days enforcing them becomes difficult. What I don’t know is whether they’re discharged as quickly? I imagine there’s a process to follow that may take some time?

Hazarding a guess, I would say we’ve refinanced, maybe with MSD, probably taken on more debt to fund the stage payments CP has discussed previously. Probably over a longer period though, which should provide some comfort in terms of long-term security.

But there’s of course a chance that something more positive is afoot.

Big Vinny K
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Big Vinny K » Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:38 am

NewClaret wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:23 am
I read that last night - that if they’re not added within 21 days enforcing them becomes difficult. What I don’t know is whether they’re discharged as quickly? I imagine there’s a process to follow that may take some time?

Hazarding a guess, I would say we’ve refinanced, maybe with MSD, probably taken on more debt to fund the stage payments CP has discussed previously. Probably over a longer period though, which should provide some comfort in terms of long-term security.

But there’s of course a chance that something more positive is afoot.
Discharges have to happen quickly too.
For example a property development with a number of properties up for sale. There will normally be a charge taken by the developers lender across the whole site. But as properties are sold and parts of the loan repaid you will need to release a charge over the land of the house that is sold. That has to happen quickly because the institution lending the money to the people buying the house will need to register their new charge on that land before they release any monies - it’s a pretty seamless and quick process as far as I understand it.

NewClaret
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:43 am

Big Vinny K wrote:
Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:38 am
Discharges have to happen quickly too.
For example a property development with a number of properties up for sale. There will normally be a charge taken by the developers lender across the whole site. But as properties are sold and parts of the loan repaid you will need to release a charge over the land of the house that is sold. That has to happen quickly because the institution lending the money to the people buying the house will need to register their new charge on that land before they release any monies - it’s a pretty seamless and quick process as far as I understand it.
Cheers, so pretty much certainly option 3 or 4 from my list then, I’d say?

Chester Perry
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:23 am

NewClaret wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:28 pm
Have to say, I thought news that our debt had been “cancelled” THIS SUBJECT might’ve prompted more discussion…
It is a something of a surprise I agree

Nori1958
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:32 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:28 pm
Have to say, I thought news that our debt had been “cancelled” might’ve prompted more discussion…
Has it been though?
Maybe people are waiting to see what the actual story is. Very unlike UTC I know :lol: :lol:

Chester Perry
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:54 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:32 pm
Has it been though?
Maybe people are waiting to see what the actual story is. Very unlike UTC I know :lol: :lol:
well as you say, that would be a huge deviation from the norm, though perhaps refreshing
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NewClaret
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:21 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:54 pm
well as you say, that would be a huge deviation from the norm, though perhaps refreshing
They’re all waiting for you to do some digging to find the answers CP ;)

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:24 pm

So, one of the things that has been noticeable about our club's new owners is that they have become as reticent to talk to the media as the previous ownership, even though they said they would be more open

While I was researching into the above, I came across this recent Interview with Alan Pace, it is not surprising that we haven't come across it before - it is with a Private Equity Journal - after some fun trying to actually get to read it - even a free read requires a work email address and tel no - I have managed to negotiate the paywall - though was somewhat disappointed with the detail. Still, as always, I will share so you can make your own judgements,

I have also made archive copies for posterity something I will be doing more of going forward as more and more reporting goes behind paywalls

Introductory article -
ALK and Burnley FC’s Alan Pace outlines football’s attraction for PE firms;
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... tack-up%2F
Archive Copy
https://archive.ph/3poef

full interview - the title of which will no doubt interest a few of you
ALK and Burnley FC’s Pace: Cost of living crisis calls for ‘innovative ways’ to help fans
‘Our idea has always been to build a sustainable club whether that is in the Premier League or not,’ says the Burnley chairman.

https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https://ww ... -help-fans
Archive Copy
https://archive.ph/KWc57
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RVclaret
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by RVclaret » Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:50 pm

Thanks for sharing. Pace once again reaffirming their long term view for the club. Good stuff.
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Paul Waine
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Paul Waine » Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:21 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:24 pm
So, one of the things that has been noticeable about our club's new owners is that they have become as reticent to talk to the media as the previous ownership, even though they said they would be more open

While I was researching into the above, I came across this recent Interview with Alan Pace, it is not surprising that we haven't come across it before - it is with a Private Equity Journal - after some fun trying to actually get to read it - even a free read requires a work email address and tel no - I have managed to negotiate the paywall - though was somewhat disappointed with the detail. Still, as always, I will share so you can make your own judgements,

I have also made archive copies for posterity something I will be doing more of going forward as more and more reporting goes behind paywalls

Introductory article -
ALK and Burnley FC’s Alan Pace outlines football’s attraction for PE firms;
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... tack-up%2F
Archive Copy
https://archive.ph/3poef

full interview - the title of which will no doubt interest a few of you
ALK and Burnley FC’s Pace: Cost of living crisis calls for ‘innovative ways’ to help fans
‘Our idea has always been to build a sustainable club whether that is in the Premier League or not,’ says the Burnley chairman.

https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https://ww ... -help-fans
Archive Copy
https://archive.ph/KWc57
Great research, as always, CP.

Good to read Alan Pace continues to speak of long term. Also, although this article appears in Private Equity Journal, Alan Pace states that ALK Capital/Velocity Sports is not a private equity fund.

UTC

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:25 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:50 pm
Thanks for sharing. Pace once again reaffirming their long term view for the club. Good stuff.
you would think they have little option at the moment - technically they owe more to the club than it is actually worth at this time

As for the interview, I think the more time goes on the less he actually has to say. If I look over the past (almost) 2 years his most telling statements happened in the first weel of his control - and when I reflect on the stuff I have been posting about the financials at the club, it is this combination of quotes from that first week speaking to the press that I return to time and time again - both from the mouth of Alan Gary Pace.

"I don't mean to be over-dramatic on it because I can't explain it, but if you knew you would be 'oh my goodness, this is incredible'."

"What you'll learn from us is that we under-promise and over-deliver..."

NewClaret
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:40 pm

Thanks for that CP. Had hoped you might’ve cracked the debt ‘cancellation’ topic when I first saw your post, but great research as ever.

Good summary of the changes so far and sounds like more in the pipeline.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:43 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:40 pm
Thanks for that CP. Had hoped you might’ve cracked the debt ‘cancellation’ topic when I first saw your post, but great research as ever.
We may have to wait until next September or so and MSD's next accounts for that I am afraid
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dsr
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by dsr » Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:03 pm

I think "we're continuing to put up money to improve the squad" is disingenuous, to say the least. Perhaps he should have said "we're continuing to let the club spend £1 on transfers for every £9 we take out" would be more accurate.

I have yet to see anything to convince me that ALKs primary purpose is anything other than taking money out of the club.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Paul Waine » Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:20 pm

dsr wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:03 pm
I think "we're continuing to put up money to improve the squad" is disingenuous, to say the least. Perhaps he should have said "we're continuing to let the club spend £1 on transfers for every £9 we take out" would be more accurate.

I have yet to see anything to convince me that ALKs primary purpose is anything other than taking money out of the club.
And, yet they've brought in Vincent Kompany as the club's manager and the team is, at this stage, top of the Championship playing exciting football.

UTC

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretInLeeds » Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:23 pm

Don’t forget - we now have more “saleable” assets in the form of younger players. Vitinho, Benson, Zaroury, Cullen and Brownhill will all command large fees if we were to ever sell them. I would hazard a guess at them bringing in more money than Pope and Cornet too.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:28 pm

ClaretInLeeds wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:23 pm
Don’t forget - we now have more “saleable” assets in the form of younger players. Vitinho, Benson, Zaroury, Cullen and Brownhill will all command large fees if we were to ever sell them. I would hazard a guess at them bringing in more money than Pope and Cornet too.
I hope you're right but these players need to impress in the Premier league to get double figure transfer fees.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretInLeeds » Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:32 pm

Do they?

Many players over the last few years have been good Championship players and have gone for upwards of £10m

We are at a stage where good League One players are costing upwards of £2m

We spent £4m on Scott Twine and £3.5m on McNally.

Josh Brownhill was £8m, Wood £15m, Hendrick £10m

RVclaret
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by RVclaret » Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:32 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:28 pm
I hope you're right but these players need to impress in the Premier league to get double figure transfer fees.
Don’t think that’s right.

For example Brentford signed Keane Lewis Potter for 18m in the summer from Hull, had never played in the PL.

They also bid 15m for Brennan Johnson last season without him having played any PL football.

I’m sure there are many more examples, they are just at the top of my head.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretInLeeds » Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:37 pm

Mathieus Pereira - £18m
Arnaut Danjuma - £23m
Adam Armstrong - £17m

All players that have no PL experience going for top whack from Championship clubs.

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