I think he means you are voicing your concern, nowt more
ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Suspect he’s meaning the post he liked earlier.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I think everyone should have concerns. They’ve certainly not said or done anything as yet to alleviate those concerns.Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:18 pmI think he means you are voicing your concern, nowt more
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I would go further than that and say they seem to be knocking over the mile posts to our worst nightmare. I just hope there is a junction that lets you U turn on the wayClaretTony wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:24 pmI think everyone should have concerns. They’ve certainly not said or done anything as yet to alleviate those concerns.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Let’s just say my concerns grow rather than diminish
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
They’re bringing a wide range of new ideas and bringing the club in to the modern day.
On the field who can argue Cornet and Collins are bad signings under their stewardship so far?
If ALK were from Burnley and grew up on Harry Potts Way our fans would be loving them.
On the field who can argue Cornet and Collins are bad signings under their stewardship so far?
If ALK were from Burnley and grew up on Harry Potts Way our fans would be loving them.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Football wise I’m wondering what they’ve done wrong.
Signed two good players and given a new contract to one of the most successful managers we’ve had.
Signed two good players and given a new contract to one of the most successful managers we’ve had.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Some people don't like change, and view anyone not from Burnley with suspicion.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
And some people are gullibleBackofthenet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:06 pmSome people don't like change, and view anyone not from Burnley with suspicion.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
And some like change, particularly change that improves whatever it is changing.Backofthenet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:06 pmSome people don't like change, and view anyone not from Burnley with suspicion.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Or simply many fans are very nervous about the owners and how they are financing the club.Backofthenet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:06 pmSome people don't like change, and view anyone not from Burnley with suspicion.
Again, a leading football financial journalist is openly mocking the owners. Surely that shows we should be at least hesitant until they prove us otherwise?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Have I upset you or something? You seem to be digging me out at every opportunity?Steve-Harpers-perm wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:09 pmI bet he’s written to Santa this year asking for relegation and the owners to go bust.
Tony the mod of this board is saying he is nervous about the owners, yet you target me?
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
The more I read the.more I find out the.more I worry. I was brought up with an out of debt out of danger mentality and when.our club have appl7ed that we have been more successful. Debts only an issue if you cannot service it, we can't with what's being loaded on us.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
On the pitch we don't look any better or safer from relegation than we did with Garlick at the helm. We're sailing close to the wind but we still might drag ourselves out of it yet.Taffy on the wing wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:34 pmI think we would certainly be going down with Garlick in charge, at least there's hope with ALK.
Off the pitch I think the financial situation and ownership arrangement is extremely worrying, and I think things could get really ugly in the event of us being relegated. The same couldn't be said had we been relegated under the old ownership.
I have far less hope for the club's future security under the new ownership.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
To be fair, we may still be relegated this time, but if we are it really won't be down to ALK. It will be down to the lack of investment and forward thinking by Garlick, and surely that CAN'T be denied.JohnMcGreal wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:24 pmOn the pitch we don't look any better or safer from relegation than we did with Garlick at the helm. We're sailing close to the wind but we still might drag ourselves out of it yet.
Off the pitch I think the financial situation and ownership arrangement is extremely worrying, and I think things could get really ugly in the event of us being relegated. The same couldn't be said had we been relegated under the old ownership.
I have far less hope for the club's future security under the new ownership.
I don't know what the future holds, and I'm unsure and unconvinced it will be rosy, but no-one will tell me it would've been better with Garlick still here.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
It's not whether we'd have gone down with Garlick, who shouldn't be getting away without any criticism if things aren't good, or will go down with ALK, it's how we might cope should we go down now compared to when Garlick was chairman.bobinho wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:55 pmTo be fair, we may still be relegated this time, but if we are it really won't be down to ALK. It will be down to the lack of investment and forward thinking by Garlick, and surely that CAN'T be denied.
I don't know what the future holds, and I'm unsure and unconvinced it will be rosy, but no-one will tell me it would've been better with Garlick still here.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I felt far more assured under Garlick than I feel now under Pace.bobinho wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:55 pmTo be fair, we may still be relegated this time, but if we are it really won't be down to ALK. It will be down to the lack of investment and forward thinking by Garlick, and surely that CAN'T be denied.
I don't know what the future holds, and I'm unsure and unconvinced it will be rosy, but no-one will tell me it would've been better with Garlick still here.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I wasn't sure a year ago but I think the new ownership have shown enough to convince me we are going in the right direction, slowly but surely both on field and off. Debt is not that bad and I just keep reserving judgement, however I see a drive to improve, introduce new things including players and that's not a bad thing. It's not like they don't know they have a debt to service and certainly I would say with the player investment in the summer it was not a case of go into debt and default/strip the the club assets. Therefore, I see a marginal improvement in the ownership, yet to see it in the performances/points but definitely see the intent to improve the playing side of things.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
If Barry Kilby expressed an opinion either way that for me would allay fears or stoke panic.
Best chairman and owner we have ever had IMHO.
He has more than done his bit for the club,penny for his thoughts.
Best chairman and owner we have ever had IMHO.
He has more than done his bit for the club,penny for his thoughts.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
While Barry Kilby did his best to distance himself from the decision to sell, I find it difficult to believe having lived his dream at Burnley Football Club he would have humbly and quietly have accepted a deal with AP he was not happy with, without it coming into general knowledge.
So far AP has done pretty much as I would have hoped coming in. Everything so far seems sensible and measured. While my support for the new owners isn’t a blank cheque, so far I have been quite pleased with the aspiration they are showing looking forward and freshening up of the club. More than anything I’m pleased they have not come in throwing money about, because in my experience that is what paper tigers usually do, they need time and I’m happy for now to give them it.
So far AP has done pretty much as I would have hoped coming in. Everything so far seems sensible and measured. While my support for the new owners isn’t a blank cheque, so far I have been quite pleased with the aspiration they are showing looking forward and freshening up of the club. More than anything I’m pleased they have not come in throwing money about, because in my experience that is what paper tigers usually do, they need time and I’m happy for now to give them it.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Not sure why Barry Kilby’s name has come up but the deal with ALK did not involve him or other directors, only Garlick and, to an extent John B.elwaclaret wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:40 pmWhile Barry Kilby did his best to distance himself from the decision to sell, I find it difficult to believe having lived his dream at Burnley Football Club he would have humbly and quietly have accepted a deal with AP he was not happy with, without it coming into general knowledge.
He didn’t do his best to distance himself from it, he really wasn’t involved in the decision or the deal.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Thanks for clearing that up. That was not the impression I got during negotiations, and, the subsequent interview Barry gave only added to my confusion. It is what it is for me though… had they come in pretending to be JR’s new in town I would be far more worried than I am, for the most part I can sort of see what they have been about updating things. Burnley football club was still like a machine from a bygone age and it’s only right I disagree with lots they are doing as they manage the club we have followed the best parts of our lives.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:04 pmNot sure why Barry Kilby’s name has come up but the deal with ALK did not involve him or other directors, only Garlick and, to an extent John B.
He didn’t do his best to distance himself from it, he really wasn’t involved in the decision or the deal.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I certainly miss the excitement of the January transfer window under Garlick.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I wonder if you can buy these tokens with your club credit from shares
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Tariq Panja is an anti crpyto biased muppet who reports fake news and takes zero responsibility for the crap he publishesNewcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:36 pmTariq Panja is openly mocking the new owners again.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Well the rise in ticket prices shows a clear lack of understanding, anyone who knows anything about Burnley knows how skint the town is. The difference between a full stadium and not is huge for us. We need to work hard to keep/maintain our local attending fanbase, making it harder for some families to attend just isn't the answer. Tickets should be given to local struggling families, they should be going to the foodbanks and handing families tickets for the parents and children, not hiking the prices.Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:56 pmFootball wise I’m wondering what they’ve done wrong.
Signed two good players and given a new contract to one of the most successful managers we’ve had.
We are not a big thriving City, so the non local people on here comparing prices to other PL clubs just don't have any idea or experience of the town. Supply and demand dictates prices, the demand isn't there, we aren't selling out.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Garlick also had a relegation on his CV and we saw what happened when we did drop, Garlick put his nuts on the line and went big balls in the market, really impressive the way he backed Dyche financially even after relegation.
Comfort in seeing the way how we operated after relegation under Garlick previously certainly helped, god knows what will happen under this lot.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
If I were to speculate there are a lot of Clarets including the new bunch in East Asia - I doubt ALK are intending to make a killing out of traditional Burnley fans buying this stuff, there aren’t enough of us, and certainly not enough who are into this type of thing. More likely it targets expanding our fanbase into Asia where this kind of thing is popular.
So I don’t view it as overly concerning but I would agree there are some vulnerable people whose finances could be ruined by anything speculative, and a bit like the gambling ads there will be some collateral damage. Losing money seems likely, a bit like buying a shirt (chance of money loss = 100% but some enjoyment comes from it). So its the enjoyment bit that is crucial. If it adds to the “experience” some may see it as a good thing.
I suspect this new ownership will bring some dramatic changes and I’ll love some of it and hate the rest. I only live once so I’m content with that, the status quo would have been a slow decline back to our natural level of Championship / League 1. I’ll just keep my money in my pocket while it happens (apart from match tickets and, if they ever improve it, on-Turf refreshments). I’m still ready to give ALK a chance.
So I don’t view it as overly concerning but I would agree there are some vulnerable people whose finances could be ruined by anything speculative, and a bit like the gambling ads there will be some collateral damage. Losing money seems likely, a bit like buying a shirt (chance of money loss = 100% but some enjoyment comes from it). So its the enjoyment bit that is crucial. If it adds to the “experience” some may see it as a good thing.
I suspect this new ownership will bring some dramatic changes and I’ll love some of it and hate the rest. I only live once so I’m content with that, the status quo would have been a slow decline back to our natural level of Championship / League 1. I’ll just keep my money in my pocket while it happens (apart from match tickets and, if they ever improve it, on-Turf refreshments). I’m still ready to give ALK a chance.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Did he? It wasn’t that big a spend considering players we lost (Ings, Trippier, Shackell at the time). It wasn’t much above bare minimum required particularly considering parachute payments. You’re acting like he sanctioned vast amounts. We mainly spent what we brought in.KRBFC wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:52 pmGarlick also had a relegation on his CV and we saw what happened when we did drop, Garlick put his nuts on the line and went big balls in the market, really impressive the way he backed Dyche financially even after relegation.
Comfort in seeing the way how we operated after relegation under Garlick previously certainly helped, god knows what will happen under this lot.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
KRBFC wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:52 pmGarlick also had a relegation on his CV and we saw what happened when we did drop, Garlick put his nuts on the line and went big balls in the market, really impressive the way he backed Dyche financially even after relegation.
Comfort in seeing the way how we operated after relegation under Garlick previously certainly helped, god knows what will happen under this lot.
After the relegation in 2015, that summer the net spend was only about £5 million, after the eventual tribunal decision for Ings and we had the parachute money to cover that.
Garlick didn't really have to put his nuts on the line at all, especially as one of our best signings that summer was a free transfer.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
let's hope Dyche and the boys can start pulling the proverbial rabbit out of a hat and somehow keep us up
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
It's not so much the financial outlay net wise, more the trust and belief in Dyche to reinvest despite a relegation. A clear motivation to get promotion when Garlick could've easily banked the incoming cash and trimmed down the spending significantly. Intention is everything in football for me, mistakes, losses and failure can be accepted providing I believe the intention fit what I want.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:08 amAfter the relegation in 2015, that summer the net spend was only about £5 million, after the eventual tribunal decision for Ings and we had the parachute money to cover that.
Garlick didn't really have to put his nuts on the line at all, especially as one of our best signings that summer was a free transfer.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
You are generally optimistic....
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
We need more signings, obviously.........just not signings like Dale Stephens.boatshed bill wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:24 pmSo you are happy losing games with what you see as better players?
Fair enough, I suppose.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
To be fair Stephens had ankle surgery in the summer and has been riddled with injury. He's not exactly had much of a chance.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I take the view that our trajectory as a club was clear before the takeover.
We appeared to have a board with limited resources who had a very sensible fiscal approach to running the club. This approach was causing fractions between the manager and the chairman.
We were lacking real investment in the squad and despite the same promises of investment, there was always the massive ‘anchor’ attached to our spending that meant we are now paying for a squad that lacks real competition.
Now, I’m not saying the new owners are the saviours, or that they have done enough to give anyone full confidence that the club is in safe hands from a financial perspective. However, we don’t have the full picture either to say that we aren’t either.
The old way seems to be comfortable to many fans when it comes to our fiscal approach. Don’t spend what you don’t have etc.
The new approach is less comfortable and in comparison appears higher risk. I genuinely don’t believe though that less comfortable automatically translates to the owners don’t know what they are doing and haven’t accounted the the situation of relegation.
I feel that there are a lot of things that appear to be moving the club forward but it’s clearly still work in progress.
Cautiously optimistic is how I view things. Im keen to see that the long term success of the club is protected but I also believe there are different ways of doing this.
We appeared to have a board with limited resources who had a very sensible fiscal approach to running the club. This approach was causing fractions between the manager and the chairman.
We were lacking real investment in the squad and despite the same promises of investment, there was always the massive ‘anchor’ attached to our spending that meant we are now paying for a squad that lacks real competition.
Now, I’m not saying the new owners are the saviours, or that they have done enough to give anyone full confidence that the club is in safe hands from a financial perspective. However, we don’t have the full picture either to say that we aren’t either.
The old way seems to be comfortable to many fans when it comes to our fiscal approach. Don’t spend what you don’t have etc.
The new approach is less comfortable and in comparison appears higher risk. I genuinely don’t believe though that less comfortable automatically translates to the owners don’t know what they are doing and haven’t accounted the the situation of relegation.
I feel that there are a lot of things that appear to be moving the club forward but it’s clearly still work in progress.
Cautiously optimistic is how I view things. Im keen to see that the long term success of the club is protected but I also believe there are different ways of doing this.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
clarethomer wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:08 amI take the view that our trajectory as a club was clear before the takeover.
We appeared to have a board with limited resources who had a very sensible fiscal approach to running the club. This approach was causing fractions between the manager and the chairman.
The old way seems to be comfortable to many fans when it comes to our fiscal approach. Don’t spend what you don’t have etc.
The problem under Garlick was that he, unlike the vast majority of Prem club owners, clearly viewed the Prem riches as something intended for his trouser pocket, rather than something with which to finance top tier football.
His eagerness to ensure he trousered most of it lead to this sale... No one else would have paid anything like that with their own cash.
That's almost certainly the reality.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
What owners in the premier league see it as something they are going to make money from?fatboy47 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:06 amThe problem under Garlick was that he, unlike the vast majority of Prem club owners, clearly viewed the Prem riches as something intended for his trouser pocket, rather than something with which to finance top tier football.
His eagerness to ensure he trousered most of it lead to this sale... No one else would have paid anything like that with their own cash.
That's almost certainly the reality.
Most of them are pumping hundreds of millions into the clubs
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Most Burnley fans I know were quite shocked when we spent 9m on Andre Gray.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:08 amAfter the relegation in 2015, that summer the net spend was only about £5 million, after the eventual tribunal decision for Ings and we had the parachute money to cover that.
Garlick didn't really have to put his nuts on the line at all, especially as one of our best signings that summer was a free transfer.
It was a huge fee for us to spend.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Sadly, through no fault of his own, Dale Stephens has become a target for some, probably because Jeff Hendrick & Robbie Brady are no longer here to abuse.superdimitri wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 6:32 amTo be fair Stephens had ankle surgery in the summer and has been riddled with injury. He's not exactly had much of a chance.
It’s a shame because he’s a good player but he’s been injured virtually since signing.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Is it really unfair to say that Stephens has been of absolutely no use to BFC, though?ClaretTony wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:22 amSadly, through no fault of his own, Dale Stephens has become a target for some, probably because Jeff Hendrick & Robbie Brady are no longer here to abuse.
It’s a shame because he’s a good player but he’s been injured virtually since signing.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Is the suggestion that Garlick engineered a deal where ALK agreed an inflated price of the club so he could make more money? What do ALK gain from that arrangement? Why would there be two interested parties to buy a club for more than it's worth?fatboy47 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:06 amThe problem under Garlick was that he, unlike the vast majority of Prem club owners, clearly viewed the Prem riches as something intended for his trouser pocket, rather than something with which to finance top tier football.
His eagerness to ensure he trousered most of it lead to this sale... No one else would have paid anything like that with their own cash.
That's almost certainly the reality.
The club was sold in 2020 at around the same price as Fulham were sold back in 2013 which suggests to me it was at least a reasonable value for a premier league team. It was independently valued at about 37 0million a year before the sale.
This sounds closer to a conspiracy theory that reality. In the last two years of Garlick we were basically breaking even with 75% of our turnover being accounted for by our wage bill alone. Obviously our recruitment wasn't ideal but we were running out of financial space to add more people to the wage book - the very public fallout about extending contracts at the end of 2019-20 was when this really seemed to come to a head.
I think we'd reached an impasse and it was probably time for new ownership but I struggle to see how that possibly occurs without Garlick receiving money for his shares.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Yes, it really is. He may well have been a good team mate in training, he has occupied the fourth midfielder spot (when fit) that he was probably signed to do. We only had 3 central misfielders in the first team squad, we needed a fourth, he was that fourth man.boatshed bill wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:01 amIs it really unfair to say that Stephens has been of absolutely no use to BFC, though?
He may have been less use than we hoped, though probably in the ideal world he would never have played anyway except purely as a reserve.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
See I disagree, I think He was signed to start for us. If he was signed as fourth choice on his wages then that is incredibly poor business from everyone involved.dsr wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:04 amYes, it really is. He may well have been a good team mate in training, he has occupied the fourth midfielder spot (when fit) that he was probably signed to do. We only had 3 central misfielders in the first team squad, we needed a fourth, he was that fourth man.
He may have been less use than we hoped, though probably in the ideal world he would never have played anyway except purely as a reserve.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Same with any player who is injured - not much you can do about that unfortunatelyboatshed bill wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:01 amIs it really unfair to say that Stephens has been of absolutely no use to BFC, though?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
1 he was signed to be part of the squadNewcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:09 amSee I disagree, I think He was signed to start for us. If he was signed as fourth choice on his wages then that is incredibly poor business from everyone involved.
2 you have no idea what he earns
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Can’t imagine he’s on peanuts Tony. Rumoured to be on mid 30k a week (sounds about right).ClaretTony wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:19 am1 he was signed to be part of the squad
2 you have no idea what he earns
I think he was signed to start alongside Westwood, I think they would compliment each other quite well.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
No, I totally agree with you on that.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:18 amSame with any player who is injured - not much you can do about that unfortunately
I guess to some the signing of DS was seen as underwelming in the first place, and followed up by his constant non-availability this has led to some frustration at what looks the a loss of substantial money in wages.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
https://blog.jacuzzi.co.uk/performance- ... n-2020-21/
The above link is about the cost of wages for injured players in the PL last season for every club.
Stephens was our only signing for the first team squad that season, so he gets a mention, but Barnes apparently cost us more in wages during his time out injured and Kevin Long was injured for the longest period.
The above link is about the cost of wages for injured players in the PL last season for every club.
Stephens was our only signing for the first team squad that season, so he gets a mention, but Barnes apparently cost us more in wages during his time out injured and Kevin Long was injured for the longest period.