ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

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RVclaret
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by RVclaret » Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:00 am

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:29 am
I don't know the ins and outs of the deal with MSD. I can only say that the view that the club made these announcements on some of the companies and not others because they are cautious about PR needs further elaboration as to why that would be. It makes little sense to me.

There seems little credible evidence that there is new investment from the owners. They don't appear to have any money and it's not credible given the nature of the deal and how the owners will make money from any sale of the club. The value of the deal is in the money taken from the clubs bank accounts. Unless the football marketplace changes dramatically there is little or no financial sense in putting more money in to it.

Let's start off with the business rationale and work backwards from there Paul. We both presumably agree that we need at least 4 first 11 players and likely another 4 to be competitive in the PL. So, unless the club has generated cash of £25 million this year (to pull a figure out of the air) as well as pay off the best part of $60 million to MSD. another x amount of million to the former owners and a decent spend in January we presume they will need more cash.

We our talking the best part of £100 million spend this year. I know we did good business in the summer selling players but I don't see it adds up to paying off MSD. Due to the nature of cash and how it is paid in football I don't think we can say with any real accuracy where the club is at but it seems unlikely that ALK can do what no one else can and generate tens of millions out of thin air.

At this point, they probably don't need cash until the summer and there seems little point in going out for more funding when PL status is only a matter of a month or so away. So, there is no business reason to do any deals now.

They need to gamble on staying in the PL because the first two or three years in the PL is where a club like Burnley makes money after that it gets hard because EFL contracts are replaced by PL contracts. So, there is a potential strategy for success in the medium term if the club can survive more than one season in the PL.

So, the only credible view IMHO is what others have said that we are in the middle of a re-structuring deal, which will generate cash for a summer splurge and that the medium term plan is to fund it from the cash generated from PL broadcast revenue in the first 2 or 3 seasons back in the PL.

It makes sense to me - the only flaw in the plan from a fans perspective is that they bought a small town PL club and if everything goes to plan we will still be a small town PL club at the end of it. And perhaps, that is good enough....!
Looks like we are back to worrying about we can and can't spend again. I seem to remember similar messages from yourself all last summer...

Just to point out

1. the club can and probably will forward it's PL 2023-24 TV money in the summer (we've done this before, as do others), giving us the cash flow immediately.
2. deals we do will be paid over years with an initial deposit, you don't need the full 50m there and then.
3. we can sign 2 loans (domestically at least) and free transfers if we like any.

I don't think the club needs to 'gamble' on staying in the PL, as this season has proved, there can be a smart strategy in place should we come back down, leaving us with saleable assets to build a promotion winning team. I do think they will be absolutely planning on taking advantage of having a top manager, though... and what this sizeable gap for promotion has allowed is a massive headstart on all of this for the summer (compared to someone in the play offs who has to wait until the end of May).
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:20 am

RVclaret wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:00 am
Looks like we are back to worrying about we can and can't spend again. I seem to remember similar messages from yourself all last summer...

Just to point out

1. the club can and probably will forward it's PL 2023-24 TV money in the summer (we've done this before, as do others), giving us the cash flow immediately.
2. deals we do will be paid over years with an initial deposit, you don't need the full 50m there and then.
3. we can sign 2 loans (domestically at least) and free transfers if we like any.

I don't think the club needs to 'gamble' on staying in the PL, as this season has proved, there can be a smart strategy in place should we come back down, leaving us with saleable assets to build a promotion winning team. I do think they will be absolutely planning on taking advantage of having a top manager, though... and what this sizeable gap for promotion has allowed is a massive headstart on all of this for the summer (compared to someone in the play offs who has to wait until the end of May).
My view that small clubs can't afford to spend £50 million plus on buying shares hasn't changed and won't even if ALK make this work. I'd rather be wrong for the right reasons than right for the wrong reasons or just sentiment.

In some circumstances, I am happy to be wrong. I was wrong that VK would not be able to create the team he has because the evidence suggests that this very rarely happens. You make judgments based upon evidence and the reality is that 15 or so EFL managers have been sacked this season and therefore you would make a judgement based on that not a view on whether an investment banker can do what many others with more experience in this league have manifestly failed to do....!

Of course, a view based on the the balance of probability is just that it can be wrong.

I think this season can only be useful as a reference if we can secure the 4 loan players who have been key to its success.

However, you are right ALK are in a situation where they can play with cashflow and make it work. I would say on the balance of probability and what evidence we have it is more likely that what we are seeing is a re-structure rather than anything else.

And in my opinion, they need to replace 8 players as it stands to compete in the PL and on that basis they will need more money. Commercially, that investment and the level of debt it will generate makes more sense than paying off debt needlessly.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Big Vinny K » Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:30 am

I get that prior to this season there was cause for concern from many fans - I was definitely one of them.

And whilst there remains a lot of unknowns in relation to our financial position surely there has got to be a lot more optimism and confidence now given what the new owners have achieved already.

To be where we are on the playing side but also in relation to our finances is nothing short of incredible.

We have reduced the wage bill by £50m to £60m and brought in significantly more in transfer fees than we have spent. For many teams that ends up with them looking at double relegation (Leeds, Sheff Wednesday, Forest and many other examples). For us by some miracle we sit nearly 20 points ahead of 3rd place with only a couple months of the season left. I can’t think of another club who have done what we have done in less than a year.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:34 am

Big Vinny K wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:30 am
I get that prior to this season there was cause for concern from many fans - I was definitely one of them.

And whilst there remains a lot of unknowns in relation to our financial position surely there has got to be a lot more optimism and confidence now given what the new owners have achieved already.

To be where we are on the playing side but also in relation to our finances is nothing short of incredible.

We have reduced the wage bill by £50m to £60m and brought in significantly more in transfer fees than we have spent. For many teams that ends up with them looking at double relegation (Leeds, Sheff Wednesday, Forest and many other examples). For us by some miracle we sit nearly 20 points ahead of 3rd place with only a couple months of the season left. I can’t think of another club who have done what we have done in less than a year.
I think it is a miracle.

But I think the question Paul is alluding to is whether the debt has been paid off and my point is not to go over the past but to suggest that commercially it is probably better to have some serviceable debt and to invest in the playing squad than to have none and not ... as it were.

But what do I know...

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Big Vinny K » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:23 am

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:34 am
I think it is a miracle.

But I think the question Paul is alluding to is whether the debt has been paid off and my point is not to go over the past but to suggest that commercially it is probably better to have some serviceable debt and to invest in the playing squad than to have none and not ... as it were.

But what do I know...
Think you said quite a bit more than that !!
But I agree there is a decision to be made.

If I was to express the opposing view to yourself that the loan should be repaid then I could also make a lot of assumptions on quality of existing squad, amounts we need to spend on players etc which supported my view.

But my point is more about that with the decisions that have been made since appointing VK both in terms of the players he had brought in / developed and also what looks on the face of it some fantastic financial deals for these players that I have a much increased confidence that they will do what is best for the success of the club on and off the pitch when making the decision on whether to repay the loan or not.

After working in the commercial finance sector for more than 30 years and a chunk of this in the football finance sector I am just delighted that I am thinking a lot less about the finances of my club than I was 12 months ago and loving the season for the reason nearly all of us started supporting Burnley - the football !!

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:50 am

Big Vinny K wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:23 am
Think you said quite a bit more than that !!
But I agree there is a decision to be made.

If I was to express the opposing view to yourself that the loan should be repaid then I could also make a lot of assumptions on quality of existing squad, amounts we need to spend on players etc which supported my view.

But my point is more about that with the decisions that have been made since appointing VK both in terms of the players he had brought in / developed and also what looks on the face of it some fantastic financial deals for these players that I have a much increased confidence that they will do what is best for the success of the club on and off the pitch when making the decision on whether to repay the loan or not.

After working in the commercial finance sector for more than 30 years and a chunk of this in the football finance sector I am just delighted that I am thinking a lot less about the finances of my club than I was 12 months ago and loving the season for the reason nearly all of us started supporting Burnley - the football !!
Indeed, but this is a commercial thread and do we need yet another post that says let's talk about how great the football is....? There are literally hundreds of threads talking about the football and how great it is... and how great it is we can talk about the football and not the finances.

Paul asked for an opinion and I gave it. You cannot know from what has been made public whether we have paid off the debt and have generated enough cash to be able to do so and invest in a PL squad. But the likely answer is we haven't for all the reasons I give.

And I give them because I think Paul is overly optimistic and there should be another view.

But to be fair Paul has been more right than I have so far.....! And I'm glad because I want Paul to be right..

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Clive 1960 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:53 am

Let the people running the club worry about things of the pitch and let's be happy what Pace and Kompany and team have done this season. Me personally I think we will get new investment fingers crossed and we will be able to hold our own in the premiership .
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:56 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:44 pm
It's now a full calendar month since Companies House records recorded the full satisfaction of MSD's loan to BFC Holdings, BF&A and Calder Vale. So far as I can see no new charge is shown on Companies House filings.

Yes, Kettering Capital and Longside Properties still show the MSD security charge. However, I'm not sure how the full satisfaction can be recorded against the club that holds the players' contracts and receives all the tv money and other revenues arising as a football club, but the loan/charge hasn't also been satisfied in full with respect to KC and LP.

What do people make of no new loans being registered against the club? I guess we will know for certain when the latest set of accounts for the accounting period to 31-July-2022 are filed, plus the comments/notes on events after the balance sheet date. These accounts should be placed in public domain by the end of April/early May at the latest. I wonder if the accounts will be released to coincide with the club winning the Championship?

UTC
It's a strange one.

I still struggle to see why, commercially, all loans would have been repaid. As I said previously, their underlying motivation is profit (obviously things like promotion, developing sellable players, etc fortunately ties in with this) and if you want to maximise profit then you would expect a certain level of debt (and risk) to allow this.

Not 100% sure what will show up in post balance sheet events around this. It's obviously non-adjusting but it will probably only show in the top companies with the loan, not the company with the charge. Will also depend when things were signed off.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Big Vinny K » Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:01 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:50 am
Indeed, but this is a commercial thread and do we need yet another post that says let's talk about how great the football is....? There are literally hundreds of threads talking about the football and how great it is... and how great it is we can talk about the football and not the finances.

Paul asked for an opinion and I gave it. You cannot know from what has been made public whether we have paid off the debt and have generated enough cash to be able to do so and invest in a PL squad. But the likely answer is we haven't for all the reasons I give.

And I give them because I think Paul is overly optimistic and there should be another view.

But to be fair Paul has been more right than I have so far.....! And I'm glad because I want Paul to be right..
I know it’s a commercial thread.
That’s why I have said that my opinion has now changed from being a lot more in a similar camp to you a year ago than to being more comfortable about whether they decide to repay the loan or not. And the reason I am more comfortable is because of the decisions they have made in the last 12 months.
That was the only context of mentioning the performance of the team.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:40 pm

Clive 1960 wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:53 am
Let the people running the club worry about things of the pitch and let's be happy what Pace and Kompany and team have done this season. Me personally I think we will get new investment fingers crossed and we will be able to hold our own in the premiership .
I say again - it's a thread about finances..

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by gandhisflipflop » Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:18 pm

It will be right. Pace is waiting til the summer to announce the arrival of a new multi billionaire investor.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Clive 1960 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:21 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:18 pm
It will be right. Pace is waiting til the summer to announce the arrival of a new multi billionaire investor.
You might be not far off it , could be the Chinese friend of Mr Pace.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by gandhisflipflop » Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:29 pm

Clive 1960 wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:21 pm
You might be not far off it , could be the Chinese friend of Mr Pace.
As the saying goes….many a true word said in jest! :)

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:02 pm

Clive 1960 wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:21 pm
You might be not far off it , could be the Chinese friend of Mr Pace.
To be fair he wasn't much of a friend. He turned up at Norwich, demanded Sean Dyche be sacked and then refused to invest because we were crap.

Personally, he sounds more like a TalkSport phone in listener than a Chinese investor.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NRC » Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:44 pm

While I understand this is a thread focused on the commercial aspects, they are, in fact, driven by a man - Alan Pace. Ultimately I feel it is the persona that is the key to potential outcomes.

My feeling is we should be taking our lead-in from what his exit strategy is, and work backwards from there. And there are many variables
- timescale: as an investor, when should the exit be nominally set for? Has the project met its goals?
- propensity for growth: does he want to be optimal about investment (meaning seek further) or settle for a reasonable return (status quo)
- lifestyle: he moved his family here. Does he/they like it? What does that change?
- leverage: what leverage does ownership of BFC give him in terms of adjacent/organic opportunities?
- ambition: does he time-stamp this to a certain point in his life-journey and exit according to that?

There are far more unknowns from the persona perspective than can ever be discovered from Company's House

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:10 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:02 pm
To be fair he wasn't much of a friend. He turned up at Norwich, demanded Sean Dyche be sacked and then refused to invest because we were crap.

Personally, he sounds more like a TalkSport phone in listener than a Chinese investor.
Demanded Sean Dyche be sacked?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:38 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:10 pm
Demanded Sean Dyche be sacked?
A point was widely made at a supporters club meeting that it was the loss at Norwich, which cost us the investment....

I think that post was meant to be humorous and ironic not literal. Delete it if it anyway implies something it shouldn't.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:58 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:10 pm
Demanded Sean Dyche be sacked?
Shows how bonkers this thread has become, though there has been worse guesses :lol:

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Vegas Claret » Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:14 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:24 pm
In other words, ALK will now have to find the £50 million quid cash they squandered on shares in the last last financial year.

4 first 11 players - all young and exciting prospects are on loans and now need to be bought by the club or replacements and it is unlikely they will find 2 centre halves and the quality of Maatsen and Tella for 3 or 4 million in the Belgian league; particularly as we are now a PL club.

If the club can make it through the first PL year then it can generate good revenue because it will have PL broadcast revenue and Championship contracts for 2 or so seasons.

However, I think the squad needs £50 million quid's worth of investment in the summer and my guess is that is what the club is trying to sort out now but it would presumably be better to wait for promotion than do anything now.
You can most definitely find the talent at modest prices although I do concur that the overall spend could approach 50. I think a lot depends if we can get the likes of THB or maybe even Maatsen on another loan deal ( or low price with buy back clause).

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:21 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:58 pm
Shows how bonkers this thread has become, though there has been worse guesses :lol:
Of course, the one way to make idiots look less idiotic is to post silly one liners with infantile emojis.

As Chairman of the East Lancashire branch of the idiots society I thank you Nori - your application has been accepted.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:25 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:21 pm
Of course, the one way to make idiots look less idiotic is to post silly one liners with infantile emojis.

As Chairman of the East Lancashire branch of the idiots society I thank you Nori - your application has been accepted.
I wouldn't apply with you as chairman....now I would have put a smiley face there, to show the lightheartedness of my post,but don't want to offend you. Have a great evening.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:32 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:14 pm
You can most definitely find the talent at modest prices although I do concur that the overall spend could approach 50. I think a lot depends if we can get the likes of THB or maybe even Maatsen on another loan deal ( or low price with buy back clause).
I can't see us getting loan deals in the PL, however, I think a £50 million spend is reasonable but of course the original point was it is unlikely that we will find the £50 million and pay off all the debts in one season so I expect we are going for more funding.

In terms of talent I think Cullen, Benson and Zaroury have been extra-ordinary finds at very good value but their cost to a PL club would presumably be higher if we had to buy them again. But I guess the counter argument is whether some of the others signings from last summer are PL quality.

I still maintain we need 8 players and £50 million seems a reasonable and serviceable amount dependent upon the extent of the other debt we know little about yet.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:35 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:25 pm
I wouldn't apply with you as chairman....now I would have put a smiley face there, to show the lightheartedness of my post,but don't want to offend you. Have a great evening.
My post was also in humour, I obviously wouldn't accept your application if I was chairman.

Have a good evening yourself...!

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Vegas Claret » Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:42 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:32 pm
I can't see us getting loan deals in the PL, however, I think a £50 million spend is reasonable but of course the original point was it is unlikely that we will find the £50 million and pay off all the debts in one season so I expect we are going for more funding.

In terms of talent I think Cullen, Benson and Zaroury have been extra-ordinary finds at very good value but their cost to a PL club would presumably be higher if we had to buy them again. But I guess the counter argument is whether some of the others signings from last summer are PL quality.

I still maintain we need 8 players and £50 million seems a reasonable and serviceable amount dependent upon the extent of the other debt we know little about yet.
my only argument would be Brighton seem to find plenty (and Brentford tbh) that don't cost the earth - at least it's a good problem to have !

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:13 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:42 pm
my only argument would be Brighton seem to find plenty (and Brentford tbh) that don't cost the earth - at least it's a good problem to have !
Indeed but exceptions rather than norms. Wigan, Huddersfield, Blackpool, Cardiff and QPR - the Championship's bottom five have all had varying degrees of success in the PL. Huddersfield and Cardiff relatively recently.

Brentford have done really well and so have we.

And again I wasn't being negative because I don't think seviceable debt is a problem if it is spent on playing assets.

Again my point was that if Paul is right and the debt has been cleared we would still need likely need more borrowing to fund a successful PL campaign.

And yes, in those circumstances if the club gave VK £50 million you'd have to consider it exciting times....
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:23 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:42 pm
my only argument would be Brighton seem to find plenty (and Brentford tbh) that don't cost the earth - at least it's a good problem to have !
Brighton and Brentford have spent huge amounts of money on scouting, data analysis etc, more than a large number of teams.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:43 pm

Brentford were funding a PL cost structure in the Championship. In their last set of accounts they made £15 million on a cost base of over £70 million funded by player sales (see below). And they've had unsustainable costs for a few seasons by the look of it.

The problem is that doing so in the PL is much harder than in the Championship because it's harder to shift players on PL contracts and there are fewer clubs who can afford them and would be an attractive proposition to players.

By any normal standards outside of very innovative tech companies these accounts are unusual.

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ory?page=2

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:54 pm

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by HistoricalClaret » Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:59 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:54 pm
Potential investment from JJ Watt

https://twitter.com/sgevans/status/1633 ... 5oTqrAaV9A
Already been thinking about this because of his posts so I'll share my conclusions:
-He almost certainly is because otherwise his posts and now public viewing of both Blackpool and Hudds matches make no sense so I feel hes involved in some manner not neccacarily financial but maybe even just a fan.
-Him posting our matches / being financially involved is HUGE news due to his sheer notoriety as an NFL Player with one of my NFL mad mates describing him as one of the greatest of this generation and a hall of famer these factors mean great things in either scenario for our brand exposure among US sports fans a huge market right now.
-Dude is Minted
Basically in every scenario his recent activity is interesting and encouraging.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:08 pm

I have to confess to never having heard of him (not a great follower of US sports), but IF he’s an investor, I really like the idea that ALKs strategy might be to get prominent US figures / sportspeople to invest in the club.

I got all excited about it when Malcolm Jenkins invested but I only see this as really adding value if they make it public and publicise it on social media (more than a blurry pictures of a game on their screen) so that their influence could grow the brand and fanbase abroad.

If they’re going to be a silent investor then it’s no more exciting than a successful businessman buying some shares.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by shulgin » Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:26 pm

JJ Watt is coming to England this weekend too. If not here already

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:14 pm

shulgin wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:26 pm
JJ Watt is coming to England this weekend too. If not here already
How do you know this shulgin?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:56 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:56 am
It's a strange one.

I still struggle to see why, commercially, all loans would have been repaid. As I said previously, their underlying motivation is profit (obviously things like promotion, developing sellable players, etc fortunately ties in with this) and if you want to maximise profit then you would expect a certain level of debt (and risk) to allow this.

Not 100% sure what will show up in post balance sheet events around this. It's obviously non-adjusting but it will probably only show in the top companies with the loan, not the company with the charge. Will also depend when things were signed off.
A quick and hopefully single break of my Lenten fast of not posting

As you point out there is little commercial logic for a full repayment as a result of investment in the ownership group - people must always remember the owners are looking for investment in themselves not the club specifically, investment in ALK/Velocity is not investment in the club, neither for that matter is the repayment of loans the club made to Calder Vale Holdings Limited.

To my mind all this points to the MSD loan being replaced by a loan from Velocity Sports Partners LLC/Velocity Sports Limited (Jersey), in all probability dating back to mid-November last year. Whether it is a temporary one while a more suitable commercial one is found following promotion or for the long term is an intriguing question.

As an aside the owners late filing malaise has now infected our club, the Confirmation Statement for Burnley FC Women Limited is now 2 weeks late
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/13192796
BFCWL.JPG
BFCWL.JPG (95.59 KiB) Viewed 1243 times
Meanwhile the accounts for Calder Vale Holdings Limited are now officially over 6 months late and actually over 9 months late for their original due date, before it was extended by way of the owners application to Companies House
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Clive 1960 » Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:27 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:54 pm
Potential investment from JJ Watt

https://twitter.com/sgevans/status/1633 ... 5oTqrAaV9A
Very welcome if true as it's getting harder to stay in the premiership now for teams like us , which shows what a remarkable job Sean did .

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by dsr » Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:34 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:54 pm
Potential investment from JJ Watt

https://twitter.com/sgevans/status/1633 ... 5oTqrAaV9A
A quick google suggests that his "net worth" is $54m. A vast fortune in human terms, but unless he invests the whole lot (which he won't) then in money terms, a drop in the ocean for PL teams. Publicity, yes, attraction of other millionaires, maybe, but big money, no.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by forzagranata » Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:44 am

dsr wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:34 am
A quick google suggests that his "net worth" is $54m. A vast fortune in human terms, but unless he invests the whole lot (which he won't) then in money terms, a drop in the ocean for PL teams. Publicity, yes, attraction of other millionaires, maybe, but big money, no.
These kind of deals are increasingly popular in the US. The MLS team in Nashville, for example, has well-known NBA, NHL and NFL players as 'minority investors'.

The value is seen as less the money put in and more the endorsement, the connections they bring, the media and marketing value and their use as an 'ambassador' to help bring in commercial partners and others. So no, he's not going to be taking over the club but he might help facilitate some useful business.

His wife is also a professional soccer player (currently without a club), she's a U.S women's international and yes, a Mormon too. I wouldn't be surprised if she gets involved with our women's team.

As an aside, J.J is a top bloke. As well as being a genuine NFL great, he has done a lot of proper charity and community work and is massively respected throughout American sport. Good talker, great on tv, all-round nice guy.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Clive 1960 » Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:53 am

dsr wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:34 am
A quick google suggests that his "net worth" is $54m. A vast fortune in human terms, but unless he invests the whole lot (which he won't) then in money terms, a drop in the ocean for PL teams. Publicity, yes, attraction of other millionaires, maybe, but big money, no.
Maybe he can connect the club with other investors, would still like to think Mr Pace can himself find new investment.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:14 am

Did Mr Pace not find Mr watt?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretCliff » Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:11 am

Never heard of the guy so just done a quick Google. According to Wiki he is a Chelsea fan, so even more promising that he is paying to watch the Clarets. (Although given his career earnings I doubt the matter of whether or not he paid a couple of dollars to watch the games means much)

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by daveisaclaret » Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:29 am

I love JJ Watt and think he's great but when American sports players "invest" as "minority owners" it's just a little PR thing. That's why we've never and will never hear from Malcolm Jenkins again.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by arise_sir_charge » Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:42 am

Please can we just rewind a few posts, are we now saying that the Chinese investor did exist?

I thought all the experts on here had immediately decided it was all nonsense and fantasy land stuff from the deluded Yank?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:43 am

dsr wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:34 am
A quick google suggests that his "net worth" is $54m. A vast fortune in human terms, but unless he invests the whole lot (which he won't) then in money terms, a drop in the ocean for PL teams. Publicity, yes, attraction of other millionaires, maybe, but big money, no.
Indeed, and also from a business perspective most investors would be reluctant to dilute their shareholding if they can sweat the assets of the club to borrow money.

In reality, their is no obvious investment proposition here that would grow the club enough to warrant diluting the shareholding.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Ightenhill_Claret » Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:48 am

I think - if anything - getting Watt in as a ‘minority investor’ if that’s what is happening is less about his cash and more about his profile.

I get the impression that Pace wants to use our status as a PL club next year to try and break America, perhaps making us every American fan’s second team.

That in itself might be enough to spark bigger investment or even Pace and Co cashing in on their investment to a degree.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:56 am

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:42 am
Please can we just rewind a few posts, are we now saying that the Chinese investor did exist?

I thought all the experts on here had immediately decided it was all nonsense and fantasy land stuff from the deluded Yank?
I think the general view at the time was that the story was designed to add ballast to the decision to sack Sean Dyche. But what are political opinions worth compared to 3 points for a win.

And I hasten to add that does not mean it wasn't true, rather, the context it was trotted out (a fans forum) would lead any normal person to the conclusion that whatever the truth it was convenient.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:01 am

Ightenhill_Claret wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:48 am
I think - if anything - getting Watt in as a ‘minority investor’ if that’s what is happening is less about his cash and more about his profile.

I get the impression that Pace wants to use our status as a PL club next year to try and break America, perhaps making us every American fan’s second team.

That in itself might be enough to spark bigger investment or even Pace and Co cashing in on their investment to a degree.
Liverpool, United, Arsenal and Chelsea?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:05 am

ClaretCliff wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:11 am
Never heard of the guy so just done a quick Google. According to Wiki he is a Chelsea fan, so even more promising that he is paying to watch the Clarets. (Although given his career earnings I doubt the matter of whether or not he paid a couple of dollars to watch the games means much)
Wouldn't be the only Chelsea fan involved

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by daveisaclaret » Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:08 am

Ightenhill_Claret wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:48 am
I think - if anything - getting Watt in as a ‘minority investor’ if that’s what is happening is less about his cash and more about his profile.

I get the impression that Pace wants to use our status as a PL club next year to try and break America, perhaps making us every American fan’s second team.

That in itself might be enough to spark bigger investment or even Pace and Co cashing in on their investment to a degree.
It is such a huge reach to think that a nation of people, who have four major sports before their own soccer league, will become enamoured with Burnley because a retired defensive end puts his name to the club. Never mind thinking that will lead to investment.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by TsarBomba » Fri Mar 10, 2023 2:48 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:54 pm
Potential investment from JJ Watt

https://twitter.com/sgevans/status/1633 ... 5oTqrAaV9A
Simon Evans reporting JJ Watt in Burnley today to meet with club officials.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Fri Mar 10, 2023 2:51 pm

NRC wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:44 pm
While I understand this is a thread focused on the commercial aspects, they are, in fact, driven by a man - Alan Pace. Ultimately I feel it is the persona that is the key to potential outcomes.

My feeling is we should be taking our lead-in from what his exit strategy is, and work backwards from there. And there are many variables
- timescale: as an investor, when should the exit be nominally set for? Has the project met its goals?
- propensity for growth: does he want to be optimal about investment (meaning seek further) or settle for a reasonable return (status quo)
- lifestyle: he moved his family here. Does he/they like it? What does that change?
- leverage: what leverage does ownership of BFC give him in terms of adjacent/organic opportunities?
- ambition: does he time-stamp this to a certain point in his life-journey and exit according to that?

There are far more unknowns from the persona perspective than can ever be discovered from Company's House
I think this is an interesting point that is easy to miss when looking at companies house filings, etc

Since the takeover I have somewhat revised my view on it. My original expectation was that it would be a reasonably quick turnaround with investors mainly interested in making money fairly swiftly.

However, I think it may be a longer term project than first expected and there's a couple of reasons for this.

One is the nature of the finances of the takeover. It appears that there is less outside investment (and less money at risk in general) than originally thought. As such, you'd expect the pressure to turn around a quick profit are less.

The second is, as you say, the fact that he's moved over here, seems to be very hands-on and enjoying the role, his daughter has married a lad from Burnley, etc. Just my gut but it points a bit more to a longer term project.

Obviously the above is just guesswork and other people can take the same stuff and come to a totally different conclusion.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Mar 10, 2023 3:05 pm

TsarBomba wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 2:48 pm
Simon Evans reporting JJ Watt in Burnley today to meet with club officials.
Simon will be spot on with that

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