ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

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Chester Perry
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:22 pm

I personally feel there will be another 3 - 5 tech investments in the next 18 months and more beyond, there is so much going on in that space at the moment on a huge range of activities for sports
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:23 pm

posted this on the mmt thread but it works here too
Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:19 pm
An interesting webinar on the growing interest of Private Equity in European football, from yesterday, some really quite interesting stuff in there particularly on the difference between investors who are just looking for a return and those who looking to significantly grow the business with their specialist expertise - the latter tending to be involved for longer, at least a decade or more. There is also a section on the ALK turnover of Burnley where the experts (including Keith Harris who has a huge amount of football experience including advising in takeovers) question just how much growth can be made commercially, talk about the leverage being at the absolute limit of feasibility and that the use of the club's own funds to buy equity means that even in the worst case scenario there is an exit strategy that could see a return for the new owners. the key is that the club is used to being financially disciplined

- you have to register and the playback takes a while to get going as there were some farcical technical issues - nearly 5 mins (there is no fast forward) but the discussion is quite good once it starts

https://twitter.com/SportBusiness/statu ... 9173220359

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:55 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:49 pm
A new interview with the new Chairmain in the I newspaper

Alan Pace: ‘I want Burnley to be the UK’s favourite underdog’
INTERVIEWThe Clarets’ new chairman discusses his background on Wall Street, the controversy surrounding ALK Capital’s takeover and why tech has a big part to play in the future at Turf Moor

By Sam Cunningham
February 19, 2021 6:10 pm(Updated 6:15 pm)

In his early twenties, as a young, energetic entrepreneur, Alan Pace discovered a niche way to make money.

He would identify family businesses whose owners did not have an heir apparent – no daughter or son or distant cousins interested in taking it on – and were coming to the end of their working life. They wanted someone who could continue their legacy, perhaps even expand, and Pace would become that person. He would buy into the business, learn from the owner, take it forward.

In late 1980s California, Pace focused on the farming sector, partnering with a trucking company, a produce business, some import-export firms. His investors liked him and believed in him enough to hand him their money, but it soon became apparent that Pace required formal financial training.

So he set sail for Barcelona to take a master’s degree, in what was the start of a journey that, via two decades on Wall Street, the Federal Reserve, major sports equity firms and a financial crisis, would end some 30 years later at a town in Lancashire. In December he was announced as the new chairman of Burnley after his investment group, ALK Capital, purchased a controlling stake in the club.

But back in the 1990s, his first job in finance was at Lehman Brothers, in their London HQ. After a few years he relocated his family to New York and was then asked to get on board with a sport private equity firm. It led to him becoming chief executive and president of Real Salt Lake, headhunted by owner Dave Checketts, and within two seasons they became MLS champions.

When the financial crisis hit in 2008, Pace was asked to return to banking and spent time at the Federal Reserve – America’s central bank. For the next decade he continued to manage and control multi-billion dollar divisions, until 2019 when he established ALK Capital with the aim of buying a football club.

Before we get to that, though, what is it like being responsible for quite so much money? “What I learned very early on Wall Street is they’re just zeros,” Pace, a dual British -American citizen, says. “My father was an entrepreneur, he would also prepare my tax returns. He’d been an accountant.

“He’d say, ‘Son, it’s only a difference of three or four zeros’. And the reality is – and I think most people on Wall Street would tell you the same thing – once you actually get into it, at first it’s a little overwhelming, the first time you see those kinds of numbers. But it becomes normal; a weird kind of normal. It’s just zeros, and it’s not yours, it’s somebody’s else’s.”

Isn’t that even more pressure? “Depending on what you’re doing, yes, but in my responsibilities, it’s much more like being at a football club. You’re almost a custodian of what you’re dealing with and you’re responsible for not doing any harm.

ALK Capital’s purchase of Burnley has not been free from controversy, and some critics have pointed to the fact that a previously shrewdly-run club, who have invested their returns from several years in the Premier League back into the club, are now saddled with debt. But Pace, 53, insists they are behaving responsibly, and tells i that he is in it for the long haul.

“We looked at a number of clubs around the country. We’d built a model on our side of what we are looking to do, going forward. The simplest thing to think about is we’re looking at building a platform of sports media and entertainment that draws in a tremendous amount of desire to be connected to a club, but not necessarily at that level of what you’re talking about for a Man United or a Chelsea. It draws interest and produces content to fill that interest level.”

Pace has three children under the age of 25 and wants to harness the way they – and young people in general – engage with the world today, mainly online, at Burnley. “If you look at what engagement they have and what drives them, they’d rather see the highlights for five minutes than necessarily watching the whole game.

“If they can see more things regularly, they want to stay connected to things they find interesting. That’s the same reason Snapchat works, Instagram works, the same reason all social media works, because you want to stay connected.

“We’re looking for something to connect to. When you look at something you want to connect to, you’re looking at a couple of different things. What’s the ability to create those connections? But also, how does it operate every day? How much passion and culture is tied to that same thing?”

ALK Capital were looking for a well-run club but with room to grow. “Are you buying a house that’s got holes in the walls and you’re going to have to rebuild the wall? Or are you buying a house that’s already done up, like a Man United or a Man City, and all you get to do is play on the fringes?”

During their search, Pace asked to see how a club was run, the culture, background, what they could potentially do with it. They were not looking for a Manchester City or Liverpool – clubs that are already maximising their potential and left little to play with – but beneath that. “And we found that this club [Burnley] was operated super well. It’s really well disciplined. It’s reinvested the proceeds from their time in the Premier League to things like the academy, rather than things like players, who get injured and end up costing you money.

“I’d love everyone to think of us as Britain’s favourite underdog. You can see how that’s easy to connect to. It’s doesn’t take a lot. We’re small market, we’re outside of Manchester, we’re not big, we’re not sexy, but it’s not hard for somebody to say, look, I don’t know who you are but I can support you when you play my arch-enemy team.”

He adds: “We’ve found that diamond in the rough, sitting here in Burnley, with a great culture and community, a club operating in a way that was fairly unique.”

Pace has experience in sports technology and one way he plans on adding to Burnley is through innovation. They have officially partnered with AiSCOUT, an app through which any young amateur footballer can upload a series of videos showing off their skill that feeds into Burnley’s recruitment team (and other clubs who sign up). It has the potential to revolutionise youth scouting.

“Think of it as crowdfunding talent,” Pace says.

“If I’m trying to build, this is a fairly inexpensive way to leverage the resources that already exist at the club. Those resources are coaching, facilities, the technical side. You’re doing a scouting process remotely. Just like Zoom exploded on the back of Covid, we think AiSCOUT will do the same thing. Clubs can’t send their people out to go do scouting, and there’s way more players out there with way more ambitions than there ever are scouts. So it’s an easy way to compare capabilities and use some of the same intelligence to predict their ability to actually go further.”

Pace understands that winning matches, avoiding relegation, qualifying for Europe, whatever a club’s goals, is the “tremendous pressure that overrides everything” and that AiSCOUT will take five-plus years to create an end product.

“If our goal and long-term thinking is that five-year plan, this technology works beautifully for that. If we can create that culture of using technology and that it’s a safe environment to think about it, then we’ll be able to do other things that may impact game day.

“I can be honest with you: I have a 20-year plan. I break it down into five-year increments and then I’ve got one, three and five for the next five. From being an entrepreneur and businessperson that’s how I’ve always thought about things.”

Another technology on the horizon is Player Lens, a growing global platform which football recruiters can use to search for players and execute transfers. It could potentially cut agents out of the system. “I’m not sure that I really like the agent market very well,” Pace says. “I’m much more comfortable in an electronic exchange, that everyone is transparent and understands. The stock exchange got done with needing to have a broker in the middle a long time ago.”

Like most technological innovation, that would hugely disrupt the agency business. As entrepreneur collides with football, can Burnley disrupt the Premier League?
Thanks for posting, CP.

A few more details in this story - and a "big typo" saying that Alan Pace was at the Federal Reserve, when it was Citigroup.

I like the idea of "long-term thinking" and "20-year plan" in "five-year increments..."

It's very common to "get involved" with family firms with no second generation to take things forward. Interesting if this gives us a Chairman who is used to coming into an established business and thinking how can this be built on and improved...

Exciting times.

UTC
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:24 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:44 am
re the static and digital it is more about the practicalities, for digital it is a file upload, for static a lot more effort is involved to prepare and change the boards

It is not just local Businesses that have disappeared - Benedictine and Oak furniture land have gone I think. What is noticeable is that the new boards are for local businesses particularly McDermott Homes, Barnfield Homes and that Padiham property company. Also for now at least the betting ones are there too.

What is apparent, even for those that say all the tv games give more eyeballs to the advertising hoardings is that most people do not notice them when watching games on tv, which would support the argument that no fans merits a reduction in price
Well I didn’t notice any had gone, so certainly can see that argument.

I have just read that all LoveBet advertising had gone on Wednesday. And the background behind Dyche in the press conference had replaced LoveBet with AiScout, so seems that there are problems there. Wonder if they’ll start wearing blank shirts?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by TsarBomba » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:43 am

For us to be everyone’s favourite underdogs, there really would need to be a sea change in our style of play.

I listen to most of the weekly podcasts, and we rarely get mentioned. And if we do, it’s not particularly flattering. Our first half in the Fulham game just gone was described as the most boring 45 minutes in the Premier League this season.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:47 am

TsarBomba wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:43 am
... Our first half in the Fulham game just gone was described as the most boring 45 minutes in the Premier League this season.
Some people haven't been watching all season have they!
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by TsarBomba » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:52 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:47 am
Some people haven't been watching all season have they!
A lot of it is lazy journalism, but undeniably, there is a perception and stigma surrounding our style of play.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:54 am

NewClaret wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:24 am
Well I didn’t notice any had gone, so certainly can see that argument.

I have just read that all LoveBet advertising had gone on Wednesday. And the background behind Dyche in the press conference had replaced LoveBet with AiScout, so seems that there are problems there. Wonder if they’ll start wearing blank shirts?
LoveBet pulled yes - AiScout added no

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj67FuQ4sJU

wonder if Sean still thinks we are "overly successful financially"

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:58 am

TsarBomba wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:52 am
A lot of it is lazy journalism, but undeniably, there is a perception and stigma surrounding our style of play.
There is and your point was spot on, there has been a massive contradiction in the minds of the general public over Pace's desire to be a favourite underdog and desire to build the whole club around Sean Dyche - we tend to think he is right for the club just not that particular ambition

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by tim_noone » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:40 am

TsarBomba wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:52 am
A lot of it is lazy journalism, but undeniably, there is a perception and stigma surrounding our style of play.
In our game at Bournemouth the Game was described as ...the worst game ever in the prem.there fans chanted we were an embarrassment ..Jay Rod pops up with a last gasp winner they were relegated that season and were still in the top flight...job done!

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by claretandy » Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:18 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:54 am
LoveBet pulled yes - AiScout added no

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj67FuQ4sJU

wonder if Sean still thinks we are "overly successful financially"
It has been added in the pre match press conferences.
https://youtu.be/wALSsRjdxng

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by claptrappers_union » Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:47 am

AiScout has digital advertising on the LED boards, LoveBet logos have been removed from the stadium completely

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:09 am

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:54 am
LoveBet pulled yes - AiScout added no

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj67FuQ4sJU

wonder if Sean still thinks we are "overly successful financially"
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Duffer_ » Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:22 am

“And we found that this club [Burnley] was operated super well. It’s really well disciplined. It’s reinvested the proceeds from their time in the Premier League to things like the academy, rather than things like players, who get injured and end up costing you money.

“I’d love everyone to think of us as Britain’s favourite underdog. You can see how that’s easy to connect to. It’s doesn’t take a lot. We’re small market, we’re outside of Manchester, we’re not big, we’re not sexy, but it’s not hard for somebody to say, look, I don’t know who you are but I can support you when you play my arch-enemy team.”

“If you look at what engagement they have and what drives them, they’d rather see the highlights for five minutes than necessarily watching the whole game.

“If they can see more things regularly, they want to stay connected to things they find interesting. That’s the same reason Snapchat works, Instagram works, the same reason all social media works, because you want to stay connected."


I find these a strange set of comments that do not give me confidence in the strategy. Who knew signing players costs money and they might get injured? If AiSCOUT is to be successful it requires mass adoption so you would expect our benefit of first mover to be marginal.

Just how many shirts are we going to sell to Man U fans when we play their "arch-enemy team" Liverpool? How invested, emotionally and financially, is a fanbase that wants 5 minute highlights and a social media style "connection" that they are accustomed to getting for free?

I have filed these comments in the naive section alongside:

* criticism of Soton academy
* "I don't expect Sean to be frustrated" in the transfer window
* attack on agents during the transfer window - the sentiment might be right but the timing was odd
* accusations of verbal agreements on sponsorship not being honoured
* a claim of under-promise and over-deliver

I appreciate it is early days for AP and I remain open to what he has to offer but I am yet to hear, let alone see, anything of substance from him. I'm sure the cheerleaders will be along to tell me that I'm just not bright enough to see the Emperor's new clothes.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:24 am

NewClaret wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:09 am
I love playing spot the difference, i've found 6 so far
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by TsarBomba » Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:41 am

Duffer_ wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:22 am
“And we found that this club [Burnley] was operated super well. It’s really well disciplined. It’s reinvested the proceeds from their time in the Premier League to things like the academy, rather than things like players, who get injured and end up costing you money.

“I’d love everyone to think of us as Britain’s favourite underdog. You can see how that’s easy to connect to. It’s doesn’t take a lot. We’re small market, we’re outside of Manchester, we’re not big, we’re not sexy, but it’s not hard for somebody to say, look, I don’t know who you are but I can support you when you play my arch-enemy team.”

“If you look at what engagement they have and what drives them, they’d rather see the highlights for five minutes than necessarily watching the whole game.

“If they can see more things regularly, they want to stay connected to things they find interesting. That’s the same reason Snapchat works, Instagram works, the same reason all social media works, because you want to stay connected."


I find these a strange set of comments that do not give me confidence in the strategy. Who knew signing players costs money and they might get injured? If AiSCOUT is to be successful it requires mass adoption so you would expect our benefit of first mover to be marginal.

Just how many shirts are we going to sell to Man U fans when we play their "arch-enemy team" Liverpool? How invested, emotionally and financially, is a fanbase that wants 5 minute highlights and a social media style "connection" that they are accustomed to getting for free?

I have filed these comments in the naive section alongside:

* criticism of Soton academy
* "I don't expect Sean to be frustrated" in the transfer window
* attack on agents during the transfer window - the sentiment might be right but the timing was odd
* accusations of verbal agreements on sponsorship not being honoured
* a claim of under-promise and over-deliver

I appreciate it is early days for AP and I remain open to what he has to offer but I am yet to hear, let alone see, anything of substance from him. I'm sure the cheerleaders will be along to tell me that I'm just not bright enough to see the Emperor's new clothes.
I agree that these comments are a little naive, and smack of not really understanding European football fans, and the tribalism that goes with it.

But, there are a lot of football fans who ‘follow’ other teams here and abroad, and that can be for a variety of reasons.

I went to Bruges for a weekend and managed to get a ticket in the Club Bruges end for their derby against Cercle. It was mental. Flares, flags, a pitch invasion. I was hooked. A Club Bruges player even did a Souness at the end of the game and planted a Club Bruges flag in the centre circle.

Since then, I have followed Club Bruges on social media, watched a few games on tv when they’re in Europe, and even bought a shirt. There are millions of football fans out there who do this.

We will always have our hardcore support, and that won’t change. But this is in addition to what we already have, so I don’t really see a problem. There is definitely a market for this, and why shouldn’t we try and tap into it?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Duffer_ » Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:55 am

TsarBomba wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:41 am
We will always have our hardcore support, and that won’t change. But this is in addition to what we already have, so I don’t really see a problem. There is definitely a market for this, and why shouldn’t we try and tap into it?
Fair point and, you're right, we should try to get our share. Ours is a great story of hope and achievement against all odds and I recognise we could do more to leverage it.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by KRBFC » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:02 am

Duffer_ wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:22 am
“It’s reinvested the proceeds from their time in the Premier League to things like the academy, rather than things like players, who get injured and end up costing you money.



:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Mala591 » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:18 am

The crunch meeting between Pace and Dyche can’t be far away;

‘Sean, you know I love what you’re doing BUT we need a better PRODUCT to sell around the world. We need more exciting, creative, unpredictable, attacking football. Even if it means playing in a style more like Leeds United.’

:o

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Jacko » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:37 am

I could not give two flying ones what neutrals think of us, our "style of play" (subjective nonsense) or the colour of our full backs' socks - it's not about them, football is primarily for those who go, who associate closely with their team, who are part of their community. The day we start kowtowing to such stuff is a day we put our fans second, which is miles off the point.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by TsarBomba » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:10 pm

Jacko wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:37 am
I could not give two flying ones what neutrals think of us, our "style of play" (subjective nonsense) or the colour of our full backs' socks - it's not about them, football is primarily for those who go, who associate closely with their team, who are part of their community. The day we start kowtowing to such stuff is a day we put our fans second, which is miles off the point.
It’s not though, is it.

I live 300 miles away, and because of work and two young kids, struggle to get on games. I’m rarely able to watch a full 90 minutes on tv, and I rely heavily on social media, this forum and speaking to family to stay abreast.

So I disagree strongly that because I’m not ‘part of the community’, or manage to get on games, that football isn’t for me, which is what you have just said.

If there is a drive to increase the brand and appeal of Burnley FC in effort to attract new fans, neutrals, or whoever, then I’m all for it because I, and many thousands who don’t live in Burnley, will win too.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:04 pm

Counted 6 static boards with Burnley football Club in a row on the Jimmy Mac today and the One club for all is on still on that stand also - all bar two static board sponsors are local now - with STANLEY Tools and a gambling one being the non local

There seems to have been a significant loss of commercial income this season - not a surprise but possibly greater than I had imagined, funds are going to be very hard pressed I will not be surprised if total revenues are down by over £30m

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:48 pm

Just a note for those who may be interested there is now a new company in the group linked to our club and as previously announced Burnley FC Women is now registered at Companies House - noticeably their are only 3 directors, Hunt, Smith and Pace. this will be viewed as a value add to the Velocity Sports business even though it is a wholly owned subsidiary of Burnley FC Holdings

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... 6/officers

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:36 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:48 pm
Just a note for those who may be interested there is now a new company in the group linked to our club and as previously announced Burnley FC Women is now registered at Companies House - noticeably their are only 3 directors, Hunt, Smith and Pace. this will be viewed as a value add to the Velocity Sports business even though it is a wholly owned subsidiary of Burnley FC Holdings

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... 6/officers
I can't believe they're forcing women's football on our company structure.

Anyway, another article on MSD. https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... t-us-loans

Nothing much new there but I think there's going to be quite a bit of interest in them if these loans continue to other clubs.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:42 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:04 pm
Counted 6 static boards with Burnley football Club in a row on the Jimmy Mac today and the One club for all is on still on that stand also - all bar two static board sponsors are local now - with STANLEY Tools and a gambling one being the non local

There seems to have been a significant loss of commercial income this season - not a surprise but possibly greater than I had imagined, funds are going to be very hard pressed I will not be surprised if total revenues are down by over £30m
Don't worry, KRBFC has it all worked out, we will be fine.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:42 pm

aggi wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:36 pm
I can't believe they're forcing women's football on our company structure.

Anyway, another article on MSD. https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... t-us-loans

Nothing much new there but I think there's going to be quite a bit of interest in them if these loans continue to other clubs.
I had it on the MMT because i thought was none related to this thread and then got a question about our loans

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:04 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:04 pm
Counted 6 static boards with Burnley football Club in a row on the Jimmy Mac today and the One club for all is on still on that stand also - all bar two static board sponsors are local now - with STANLEY Tools and a gambling one being the non local

There seems to have been a significant loss of commercial income this season - not a surprise but possibly greater than I had imagined, funds are going to be very hard pressed I will not be surprised if total revenues are down by over £30m
From what I recall, commercial revenues are £16m with matchday revenues £6m, so presumably you’re factoring TV reduction as well?

Do we know what the position is with the extra games BT/Sky are screening? I assume they’re not getting them for free?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:43 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:04 pm
From what I recall, commercial revenues are £16m with matchday revenues £6m, so presumably you’re factoring TV reduction as well?

Do we know what the position is with the extra games BT/Sky are screening? I assume they’re not getting them for free?
The existing Domestic partners - Sky, BT, Amazon and the BBC - are getting the additional games free, in the "hope", there is no publicly stated agreement, that they do not ask for a rebate this season - these broadcasters have forced the schedule where it is rare for games to be be on at the same time. They have also established that the additional !80 games that the Premier League were hoping to use to maintain or grow domestic revenues are actually not worth very much or anything at all to them. Apart from the BBC I do not think they particularly want or need them.

there is also the consequential impact of broadcasting all the games domestically in this format, which is international broadcasters are having a significant number of games they have paid for at peak local audience times moved to times and days that are significantly less audience friendly to them. There is no word yet but they will be looking for a rebate, particularly for a whole season without fans in attendance.

So last season there was a reported £330m in rebates - the Premier League paid the £160m to international broadcasters last season and the £170m to domestic broadcasters was to be deducted out of this and next seasons payments. from a central distribution perspective a full payment was made to Premier League clubs with notice that the rebate share per club would be calculated over last season and this season and deducted from this season and next season central payments - our share from last season is £13.4 m (as per the Premier League Handbook), we will find out at the share calculated this season at the end of the season (as it involves merit payments as well)/

None of that accounts for the £320m+ shortfall on the China TV deal - and we still do not know who or what the deal is like for next season except it will not be the £175m or so that was signed at the beginning of the cycle. If you consider we will be paying circa £25m+ for a £330m deficit last season, you can imagine that it is likely to be £40m+ for a £450m+ deficit. We just do not know how or even when that is going to hit the clubs.

As you can see there are a lot of shortfalls that are still to be confirmed but we know that they are waiting down stream

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Duffer_ » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:28 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:43 pm
The existing Domestic partners - Sky, BT, Amazon and the BBC - are getting the additional games free, in the "hope", there is no publicly stated agreement, that they do not ask for a rebate this season - these broadcasters have forced the schedule where it is rare for games to be be on at the same time. They have also established that the additional !80 games that the Premier League were hoping to use to maintain or grow domestic revenues are actually not worth very much or anything at all to them. Apart from the BBC I do not think they particularly want or need them.

there is also the consequential impact of broadcasting all the games domestically in this format, which is international broadcasters are having a significant number of games they have paid for at peak local audience times moved to times and days that are significantly less audience friendly to them. There is no word yet but they will be looking for a rebate, particularly for a whole season without fans in attendance.

So last season there was a reported £330m in rebates - the Premier League paid the £160m to international broadcasters last season and the £170m to domestic broadcasters was to be deducted out of this and next seasons payments. from a central distribution perspective a full payment was made to Premier League clubs with notice that the rebate share per club would be calculated over last season and this season and deducted from this season and next season central payments - our share from last season is £13.4 m (as per the Premier League Handbook), we will find out at the share calculated this season at the end of the season (as it involves merit payments as well)/

None of that accounts for the £320m+ shortfall on the China TV deal - and we still do not know who or what the deal is like for next season except it will not be the £175m or so that was signed at the beginning of the cycle. If you consider we will be paying circa £25m+ for a £330m deficit last season, you can imagine that it is likely to be £40m+ for a £450m+ deficit. We just do not know how or even when that is going to hit the clubs.

As you can see there are a lot of shortfalls that are still to be confirmed but we know that they are waiting down stream
Struggling to see how that equates to a £30m season-on-season reduction in revenue. Can you break that down by season CP, including your assumptions?

19/20 season
£129m TV and prize money before rebates
£3m matchday revenue (50%)
£12m commercial revenue (75%)
-£13m rebate (share of £330m inc £160m to int'l)
-£6m shortfall on China deal (£160m assuming we bear 4% of total shortfall, as we did with rebate)
£125m Total revenue

20/21 season
£120m TV and prize before rebates (lower league placing)
£0m matchday revenue
£9m commercial revenue
-£13m rebate (as per last season but would be harsh given increase in number of games)
-£6m shortfall on China deal (as per 19/20)
£110m Total revenue

Season on season reduction of £15m

Appreciate I may be missing something, or misinterpreting what you have said.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:06 pm

Even though I tend to focus on operational cash flows

Last season we sold Tom and Nahki. this season we have sold no-one I am aware of (at least not for a significant sum), that was booked revenue

We got the cash for the £13.4m share of the rebate last year - though I expect we will book the shortfall

The Premier league will add that number to our share of it from this season (each clubs total share of the 2019/20 rebate is calculated over two season) then divide by two and deducted from the final payment this season by that figure and again next season.

Any rebates for this season have not yet been announced or had a formula of club impact announced, similarly for the Chinese TV deal, they may follow the existing formula used for last season's rebate they may not. I can say that the Premier League have not declared (and it has not been reported in any of the accounts for last season published to date). We also do not know if any of the £120m a season Premier League commercial income has been impacted by rebate.

I suspect our real commercial income may be around £3 - £5m this season if the stories of Lovebet struggling to pay are true and all the others are on reduced rates (remember £3.2m+ of the 2018/19 commercial income was retail and non matchday events at the club, that will be substantially less.

This year will be the first season in a which we will not receive any outstanding transfer payments, last year saw £14m come in and out plus conditional payments in and out (to be clear this is not revenue just operational cash flow). We do have outstanding transfer payments of circa £7m which are mainly (if not all) due this season and none due inwards apart from a small amount of conditional payments, of which we may have to pay around £2m - £3m ourselves

It is all really quite messy and reactionary as the Premier League is scrambling to spread the impacts of the losses/rebates and help stabilise cash flows. The formulas created for rebate share last season were done on the expectation of a return to normal early in the current season, that hasn't happened and the Premier League will only now have a begun to have a certainty on what their revenues are going to be this season. There is a Strategic Review (in response to Project Big Picture, a European Super League and the governments own whole game review and the threat of an Independent regulator who could kill parachute payments and change the distribution rules) due to be release in the next 2 - 3 weeks. Also the Premier League has to tender for the next cycle this year, it is already delayed.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by KRBFC » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:13 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:42 pm
Don't worry, KRBFC has it all worked out, we will be fine.
You are the one who said we'll be alright because we're gonna get more twitter followers.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Devils_Advocate » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:18 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:13 pm
You are the one who said we'll be alright because we're gonna get more twitter followers.
CT has effectively banned 3 million followers so we're off to a bad start if thats the plan

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:47 pm

Duffer_ wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:22 am
“And we found that this club [Burnley] was operated super well. It’s really well disciplined. It’s reinvested the proceeds from their time in the Premier League to things like the academy, rather than things like players, who get injured and end up costing you money.

“I’d love everyone to think of us as Britain’s favourite underdog. You can see how that’s easy to connect to. It’s doesn’t take a lot. We’re small market, we’re outside of Manchester, we’re not big, we’re not sexy, but it’s not hard for somebody to say, look, I don’t know who you are but I can support you when you play my arch-enemy team.”

“If you look at what engagement they have and what drives them, they’d rather see the highlights for five minutes than necessarily watching the whole game.

“If they can see more things regularly, they want to stay connected to things they find interesting. That’s the same reason Snapchat works, Instagram works, the same reason all social media works, because you want to stay connected."


I find these a strange set of comments that do not give me confidence in the strategy. Who knew signing players costs money and they might get injured? If AiSCOUT is to be successful it requires mass adoption so you would expect our benefit of first mover to be marginal.

Just how many shirts are we going to sell to Man U fans when we play their "arch-enemy team" Liverpool? How invested, emotionally and financially, is a fanbase that wants 5 minute highlights and a social media style "connection" that they are accustomed to getting for free?

I have filed these comments in the naive section alongside:

* criticism of Soton academy
* "I don't expect Sean to be frustrated" in the transfer window
* attack on agents during the transfer window - the sentiment might be right but the timing was odd
* accusations of verbal agreements on sponsorship not being honoured
* a claim of under-promise and over-deliver

I appreciate it is early days for AP and I remain open to what he has to offer but I am yet to hear, let alone see, anything of substance from him. I'm sure the cheerleaders will be along to tell me that I'm just not bright enough to see the Emperor's new clothes.
The next 12 months will be incredibly unnerving with these owners. Genuinely come across like they haven’t got a clue about football.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:51 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:45 pm
I genuinely don’t understand why this board is littered with comments belittling other fans.

Tony is there nothing we can do tidy this up?
You falsely accused someone of getting snotty when they disproved your point the other day, that was after you threw a similar accusation at me for doing the same and now you're here trying to get me banned.

KRBFC has repeatedly shown that he neither understands nor wants to understand how the finances work at the club and how to grow the revenue etc.

It's apparently perfectly fine for him and others to continue to spread falsehoods, inc accusing our former owners of a stealing or intentionally running the club down to line their own pockets, but I'm not allowed to mock them for it apparently.

How about you block me instead if you don't like what I've got to say.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by BurnleyFC » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:12 pm

I can’t decide if that last interview from Alan Pace is either incredibly naive or downright frightening.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:14 pm

BurnleyFC wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:12 pm
I can’t decide if that last interview from Alan Pace is either incredibly naive or downright frightening.
It will be a very interesting summer to say the least. if we don’t sign any players of note then we will know what the new owners are really here for.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by joey13 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:47 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:51 pm
You falsely accused someone of getting snotty when they disproved your point the other day, that was after you threw a similar accusation at me for doing the same and now you're here trying to get me banned.

KRBFC has repeatedly shown that he neither understands nor wants to understand how the finances work at the club and how to grow the revenue etc.

It's apparently perfectly fine for him and others to continue to spread falsehoods, inc accusing our former owners of a stealing or intentionally running the club down to line their own pockets, but I'm not allowed to mock them for it apparently.

How about you block me instead if you don't like what I've got to say.
It’s crossed my mind to block you , but you are very entertaining, so thanks 😊
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:12 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:47 pm
The next 12 months will be incredibly unnerving with these owners. Genuinely come across like they haven’t got a clue about football.
I think the comments make a lot more sense if you take them from the viewpoint that they're not really talking about existing fans in this country. They're looking at overseas fans with far less of an allegiance and how they can capture them.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Elizabeth » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:27 am

If our future well-being is dependant on overseas fans then all I can say is good luck to us all

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Claretnick » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:14 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:47 pm
The next 12 months will be incredibly unnerving with these owners. Genuinely come across like they haven’t got a clue about football.
And you are the font of all knowledge about football. Sick to death of reading you and others talking our club down, not sure you are a Claret to be honest with your opinion about everything from finance to the integrity of the new owners. How about giving somebody a chance before you cast judgement.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:14 am

Claretnick wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:14 am
And you are the font of all knowledge about football. Sick to death of reading you and others talking our club down, not sure you are a Claret to be honest with your opinion about everything from finance to the integrity of the new owners. How about giving somebody a chance before you cast judgement.
I have specifically talked down the new owners. They have not got a penny to there name and have put a well run club into debt.

I am a life long clarets fan and I think there is more than enough being said about the club in the press to be concerned.

I don’t understand why fans are not allowed to show there concern? I am not saying I am expert at all.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:03 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:14 am
I have specifically talked down the new owners. They have not got a penny to there name and have put a well run club into debt.

I am a life long clarets fan and I think there is more than enough being said about the club in the press to be concerned.

I don’t understand why fans are not allowed to show there concern? I am not saying I am expert at all.
Maybe it’s the daily multiple posts on concerns about the new owners (not just from you). Let’s get this season out of the way, hopefully maintaining our top flight status and then see what they bring to the club this summer. They have been in charge less than 8 weeks.,

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:04 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:14 am
I have specifically talked down the new owners. They have not got a penny to there name and have put a well run club into debt.

I am a life long clarets fan and I think there is more than enough being said about the club in the press to be concerned.

I don’t understand why fans are not allowed to show there concern? I am not saying I am expert at all.
Its the old sphere of influence / sphere of concern thing to me, what the hell can we do?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by KateR » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:51 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:14 am
I have specifically talked down the new owners. They have not got a penny to there name and have put a well run club into debt.

I am a life long clarets fan and I think there is more than enough being said about the club in the press to be concerned.

I don’t understand why fans are not allowed to show there concern? I am not saying I am expert at all.
You are clearly not an expert, but there is a difference between being knowledgeable and spreading a lie as facts in your own mind, which is what you continue to do. Your continued stance in stating as a fact things like [i]"They have not got a penny to there name" is absolutely fake news and an untruth. Same as similar statements made as to, there is no longer any money in the bank for BFC, which is another clear fabrication/interpretation that is thrown out there as a fact.

I for one think you need to stop with this attitude, or at least put caveats in so everyone is clear that it is just your opinion and you have zero facts to back the statement up with.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by KRBFC » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:58 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:51 pm


It's apparently perfectly fine for him and others to continue to spread falsehoods, inc accusing our former owners of a stealing or intentionally running the club down to line their own pockets, but I'm not allowed to mock them for it apparently.
I have never said that...

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:20 pm

KateR wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:51 pm
You are clearly not an expert, but there is a difference between being knowledgeable and spreading a lie as facts in your own mind, which is what you continue to do. Your continued stance in stating as a fact things like [i]"They have not got a penny to there name" is absolutely fake news and an untruth. Same as similar statements made as to, there is no longer any money in the bank for BFC, which is another clear fabrication/interpretation that is thrown out there as a fact.

I for one think you need to stop with this attitude, or at least put caveats in so everyone is clear that it is just your opinion and you have zero facts to back the statement up with.
To be fair Kate it’s a football forum. 90 percent of the posts on the forum are just opinion. I thought it was fairly clear that is was my opinion. Il make sure to clarify next time I post that it is my opinion and not supported by facts.

I would highlight that there is also very little evidence suggest otherwise.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by KateR » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:54 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:20 pm
To be fair Kate it’s a football forum. 90 percent of the posts on the forum are just opinion. I thought it was fairly clear that is was my opinion. Il make sure to clarify next time I post that it is my opinion and not supported by facts.

I would highlight that there is also very little evidence suggest otherwise.
Personally, I think there is evidence that these people have more money than MG had and probably has today, and that is my opinion and not a fact.

I would also say that being able to continue to run a EPL team and pay players/bills etc. should suggest to anyone, that there is operating money in the bank, until I hear players screaming they are not getting paid or venders/suppliers start saying that they are not getting paid, then I am confident there is money in the BFC chest. How much I don't know, is it less than there was in December, probably but these continual snipes regarding, not a pot to pee in and no money in the bank, is people at the best (using a well known word within the forum elite) is disingenuous. :P

I'm not saying it's exciting times, I am not saying it is better than previous, what I would say, is that there is a chance to improve on the last regime that I don't think would have ever happened, so it's different and yes, totally agree there is more risk and downside also.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Paul Waine » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:53 pm

KateR wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:54 pm
Personally, I think there is evidence that these people have more money than MG had and probably has today, and that is my opinion and not a fact.

I would also say that being able to continue to run a EPL team and pay players/bills etc. should suggest to anyone, that there is operating money in the bank, until I hear players screaming they are not getting paid or venders/suppliers start saying that they are not getting paid, then I am confident there is money in the BFC chest. How much I don't know, is it less than there was in December, probably but these continual snipes regarding, not a pot to pee in and no money in the bank, is people at the best (using a well known word within the forum elite) is disingenuous. :P

I'm not saying it's exciting times, I am not saying it is better than previous, what I would say, is that there is a chance to improve on the last regime that I don't think would have ever happened, so it's different and yes, totally agree there is more risk and downside also.
Hi Kate, I know with 100% confidence that there is less money in BFC bank account today than there was when the takeover was completed. You've hit on the reason why this will be the case - all the players (and other staff) were paid in January - and are due to be paid again in February. There's been no new tv money paid to BFC in the past 2 months and money has gone out of the club to pay January wages and will shortly go out again to pay February wages. Maybe those wages also included some bonuses for the previous season, or maybe not. Timing of PAYE and NI is a little less certain - I forget whether the employer has to pay those to HMRC every quarter.

For me....

Exciting times.

UTC

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by dsr » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:28 pm

KateR wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:54 pm
Personally, I think there is evidence that these people have more money than MG had and probably has today, and that is my opinion and not a fact.

I would also say that being able to continue to run a EPL team and pay players/bills etc. should suggest to anyone, that there is operating money in the bank, until I hear players screaming they are not getting paid or venders/suppliers start saying that they are not getting paid, then I am confident there is money in the BFC chest. How much I don't know, is it less than there was in December, probably but these continual snipes regarding, not a pot to pee in and no money in the bank, is people at the best (using a well known word within the forum elite) is disingenuous. :P

I'm not saying it's exciting times, I am not saying it is better than previous, what I would say, is that there is a chance to improve on the last regime that I don't think would have ever happened, so it's different and yes, totally agree there is more risk and downside also.
A bit of nitpicking going on there, Kate. Because obviously you are right that there is money in the bank in the sense that the club can pay wages. But on the other hand, Newcastle is right that if you are running on bank loans and overdrafts, there isn't "money in the bank". Or at least, it is someone else's money.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:04 am

Keith Harris on Burnley’s takeover “ It’s as highly leveraged as you can ever make something...what has come as a surprise is that not only did ALK borrow external debt to fund the acquisition, they also used the club’s own cash.”

It appears they talk about the takeover on a Vidcast.

Not sure how to link to but sounds interesting. The Athletic journalist has shared the link.

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