ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
apparently there was a gentleman's agreement that is not being kept, it's in the report further up regarding a Burnley Businessman
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
There was a non binding gentleman's agreement for a reduced Sponsorship fee agreed between Garlick and the sponsors at the tail-end of last year apparently, but the new owners aren't obliged to agree to it and want full payment.
That's what I've read.
Naturally some people on here will decided to claim the new owners are ripping up agreements when really they aren't.
They will also be the same people who can't understand how the new owners will increase revenue..... Premium advertising spots aren't generating enough money if we keep agreeing deals with a local van sales man etc.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Nope, not missing any point. This is what we need to improve. We’re a major football club.Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:55 pmThink your missing the point. A lot of the sponsors have been there for a significant time, the club didn’t always have this reach and would rely on the income a lot more than they did now.
Concerning that the new owners have just come in an effectively ripped up local community sponsorship. Doesn’t send the best message.
Your second para is hyperbole at best.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Allegedly..... And when was this agreement due to kick in.... Halfway through the season? That would be weird... Or at the start of the next season?
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I did say "apparently" ...... It was reported in the news, so is out in the public domain as a "fact" for now, since there has been no comment to refute it. Beyond that , who knows..............
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Hi Kate, I guess the power is back on for you in Houston at the moment. Hope you and yours are keeping warm.
I'm not sure I'd take a media comment as fact, just because no one has refuted it. The business person that has claimed that a verbal agreement has been made has not identified themselves, not have they identified who they claim they'd spoken to at BFC.
I'd take the alternative view. The club had announced that they were in takeover talks. No one at the club would have made any new agreements or discussed amending any existing agreements with any advertiser unless such a change was critical to the takeover and was also agreed with the proposed new owners. If this had been the case any amended deal would have been documented and signed by both parties, the club and the advertiser. So, claims of a verbal agreement not being honoured don't ring true.
Exciting times.
UTC
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I take the opposite view as have been involved with to many issues regarding handshakes and gentlemen's agreements that has cost a lot of money to put right, of course it could be some disgruntled person but not sure what they gain but we know people do these things. I thought putting "fact" like that, was clear that I was not agreeing to it being an actual fact because it's one that will never be proven I expect. I am not going to speculate more but as I said it's in the public domain and not exactly a compliment but no big deal either, not even a storm in a teacup.Paul Waine wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:08 pmHi Kate, I guess the power is back on for you in Houston at the moment. Hope you and yours are keeping warm.
I'm not sure I'd take a media comment as fact, just because no one has refuted it. The business person that has claimed that a verbal agreement has been made has not identified themselves, not have they identified who they claim they'd spoken to at BFC.
I'd take the alternative view. The club had announced that they were in takeover talks. No one at the club would have made any new agreements or discussed amending any existing agreements with any advertiser unless such a change was critical to the takeover and was also agreed with the proposed new owners. If this had been the case any amended deal would have been documented and signed by both parties, the club and the advertiser. So, claims of a verbal agreement not being honoured don't ring true.
Exciting times.
UTC
Regarding Houston (thank you for asking) the power came back on at 1:30 am this morning, the building water pump kicked in and blew several valves, meaning a lot of water everywhere, fortunately they were all in the garage area so none of the lofts had internal damage. However, the building is still without water until the plumbers get here, they are in huge demand right now so no idea when that will be, we have been without water since Sunday, eeeek!!
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
The only facts are that the advertising on the Jimmy Mac, Bob Lord and Cricket Field stand is very much changed from a month ago,
there are no double stack boards on the Bob Lord, and a number of advertisers now have boards on all three stands, which is not something I recall seeing before, further, as I posted last night there are a lot of vacant boards (I counted 10) that either carry Burnley Football Club or the One club for all logo. Previously there had been no such vacant boards that I had noticed.
there has been a serious reduction in the number of advertisers I would say at least 50% (possibly more) in a month, this may be strategy, it may be because of failure to meet obligations or a combination of the two. If it had been left until the end of the season there would likely be much less rancour and more goodwill, when the club come calling - and they will on those same local businesses for other commercial offerings including hospitality.
there are no double stack boards on the Bob Lord, and a number of advertisers now have boards on all three stands, which is not something I recall seeing before, further, as I posted last night there are a lot of vacant boards (I counted 10) that either carry Burnley Football Club or the One club for all logo. Previously there had been no such vacant boards that I had noticed.
there has been a serious reduction in the number of advertisers I would say at least 50% (possibly more) in a month, this may be strategy, it may be because of failure to meet obligations or a combination of the two. If it had been left until the end of the season there would likely be much less rancour and more goodwill, when the club come calling - and they will on those same local businesses for other commercial offerings including hospitality.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Hi CP, if what you are reporting is accurate, I wonder if the "missing ads" are a clear out of ads that hadn't been paid for for this season? If the club's commercial department is starting to act a little more commercially and prepare to bring in new sponsors this must all be good news.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:20 pmThe only facts are that the advertising on the Jimmy Mac, Bob Lord and Cricket Field stand is very much changed from a month ago,
there are no double stack boards on the Bob Lord, and a number of advertisers now have boards on all three stands, which is not something I recall seeing before, further, as I posted last night there are a lot of vacant boards (I counted 10) that either carry Burnley Football Club or the One club for all logo. Previously there had been no such vacant boards that I had noticed.
there has been a serious reduction in the number of advertisers I would say at least 50% (possibly more) in a month, this may be strategy, it may be because of failure to meet obligations or a combination of the two. If it had been left until the end of the season there would likely be much less rancour and more goodwill, when the club come calling - and they will on those same local businesses for other commercial offerings including hospitality.
Are you hearing any "rancour" from firms that have paid for this season and have now been removed?
Exciting times.
UTC
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Surely most people, in a position to advertise at the club, will have enough nouse to appreciate that the club may be able to earn bigger revenues from elsewhere. They themselves are business people, accustomed to doing what is right for their business.
Assuming it’s been done in the right way (if indeed anything has been done at all) will people really be bitter and it live long in their memories?
I appreciate that the club will be wanting these people when it comes to corporate, but they’re not just paying out for these packages to benefit the club.
As ever there’s a middle ground - this possible bitterness sounds a tad petty. Certainly unless there’s more detail to come out.
Assuming it’s been done in the right way (if indeed anything has been done at all) will people really be bitter and it live long in their memories?
I appreciate that the club will be wanting these people when it comes to corporate, but they’re not just paying out for these packages to benefit the club.
As ever there’s a middle ground - this possible bitterness sounds a tad petty. Certainly unless there’s more detail to come out.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Or just gullible and just believe everything the snake oil salesman saysGodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:41 pmThere was a non binding gentleman's agreement for a reduced Sponsorship fee agreed between Garlick and the sponsors at the tail-end of last year apparently, but the new owners aren't obliged to agree to it and want full payment.
That's what I've read.
Naturally some people on here will decided to claim the new owners are ripping up agreements when really they aren't.
They will also be the same people who can't understand how the new owners will increase revenue..... Premium advertising spots aren't generating enough money if we keep agreeing deals with a local van sales man etc.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
It is quite probably that these people who you think are being a tad petty have been putting money into the club for a few decades, when they were desperately needed. I remember in the late nineties small one band businesses being phoned up in the days before a Saturday game by the club desperately hoping that they would sponsor a match ball and a table of 6 or 8 in hospitality, often it was the same few businesses that would help out, people who already had season tickets in the 100 club etc and their guest often had season tickets too - so they were effectively doubling up on the ticket sales too.
The majority of the local sponsors have a long history helping the club and while many are realistic enough to accept the club in it's current guise is moving on, doing this mid season in a time of hardship and lack of trade for them can leave a very sour taste if not handled in the right way, no matter what the average fan may think. It is why I said doing it at the end of season would be much more palatable all round given the new broom etc.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Who are you referring to when you say that?
It isn't Pace making the claim about gentleman's agreements etc.
It's business, if it isn't written down and signed, or even got a handshake with witnesses then it's irrelevant.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Weird how those who complain most about lack of spending on transfers also complain most about attempts to generate more income.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Weird how those who supported the old board that didn’t invest in the squad, now support the new board who will carry on doing the same .TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:03 pmWeird how those who complain most about lack of spending on transfers also complain most about attempts to generate more income.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Hardly fair comparison though is it?
The old board have had 5-6 transfer windows at least where we could argue we have been poor and despite having cash in the bank have not used it.
The new owners came in days before a transfer window. The same transfer window that showed was a tough one for even the biggest of spenders and the new owner was having to self isolate for 2 weeks of the transfer window.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Gentlemen's agreements ought to be binding. I doubt it would do any business any good to be known as a business whose word can't be trusted. A business might gain a few quid today but would risk losing a lot more tomorrow.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
The agreement was with the previous owners....
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
That makes it ok then , makes a mockery of wanting to embrace the local community, but obviously not in your eyes .
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Amazing take on what’s happened, one question that cash that was in the bank , where is it now ?clarethomer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:12 pmHardly fair comparison though is it?
The old board have had 5-6 transfer windows at least where we could argue we have been poor and despite having cash in the bank have not used it.
The new owners came in days before a transfer window. The same transfer window that showed was a tough one for even the biggest of spenders and the new owner was having to self isolate for 2 weeks of the transfer window.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Sigh
I see people on here having a tantrum because of a leveraged buyout and failing to see how the club can increase revenue streams.
When the club attempts to maintain current revenue streams, with the aim to increase them by making better use of our prime advertising spots and ensuring our sponsorship deals are fulfilled so they can ensure the club can pay the bills, people on here get upset.
If people assume a non binding agreement with the previous owner should be carried on by new owners then this is going to be a long few years whilst I wait for some of you to catch up with reality.
I wouldn't expect any other business on the planet to honor a non-binding gentleman's agreement when it has new owners.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
You don't know, none of us do.
We have to wait until next year to see the financial records.
For all we know that money could still be in the bank.
You can make claims so you can batter the previous and current owners, because that's normal on here.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Is that digital boards or static ones?Chester Perry wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:20 pmThe only facts are that the advertising on the Jimmy Mac, Bob Lord and Cricket Field stand is very much changed from a month ago,
there are no double stack boards on the Bob Lord, and a number of advertisers now have boards on all three stands, which is not something I recall seeing before, further, as I posted last night there are a lot of vacant boards (I counted 10) that either carry Burnley Football Club or the One club for all logo. Previously there had been no such vacant boards that I had noticed.
there has been a serious reduction in the number of advertisers I would say at least 50% (possibly more) in a month, this may be strategy, it may be because of failure to meet obligations or a combination of the two. If it had been left until the end of the season there would likely be much less rancour and more goodwill, when the club come calling - and they will on those same local businesses for other commercial offerings including hospitality.
There were definitely a lot of digital boards advertising the club earlier in the season.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I have to say, I can’t say I’ve noticed and changes. Although haven’t been looking.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:20 pmThe only facts are that the advertising on the Jimmy Mac, Bob Lord and Cricket Field stand is very much changed from a month ago,
there are no double stack boards on the Bob Lord, and a number of advertisers now have boards on all three stands, which is not something I recall seeing before, further, as I posted last night there are a lot of vacant boards (I counted 10) that either carry Burnley Football Club or the One club for all logo. Previously there had been no such vacant boards that I had noticed.
there has been a serious reduction in the number of advertisers I would say at least 50% (possibly more) in a month, this may be strategy, it may be because of failure to meet obligations or a combination of the two. If it had been left until the end of the season there would likely be much less rancour and more goodwill, when the club come calling - and they will on those same local businesses for other commercial offerings including hospitality.
Is this just not a case that advertising is sold annually Jan-Jan and therefore a large number of organisations have decided not to renew? Hardly surprising in the economic climate? And particularly since local advertisers are probably not bothered about having a global tv audience see their adverts so much as 20k largely local clarets.
As for the BBC report, I don’t think we should pay much attention to the comments of a single advertiser. Quite possibly a miss-understanding or maybe even a bit of mischief making.
I agree that keeping local businesses on side should be an integral part of our commercial strategy will be very important. We need to find ways to grow our commercial revenues without annoying those that have stuck with us through the bad times. That’ll be a tricky balancing act.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Static and the Digital boards still are advertising the club, which suggests they are not selling all that advertising space either
Last edited by Chester Perry on Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
The static boards are traditionally sold on a season by season basis, Digital boards are sold on a match by match basis.NewClaret wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:17 amI have to say, I can’t say I’ve noticed and changes. Although haven’t been looking.
Is this just not a case that advertising is sold annually Jan-Jan and therefore a large number of organisations have decided not to renew? Hardly surprising in the economic climate? And particularly since local advertisers are probably not bothered about having a global tv audience see their adverts so much as 20k largely local clarets.
As for the BBC report, I don’t think we should pay much attention to the comments of a single advertiser. Quite possibly a miss-understanding or maybe even a bit of mischief making.
I agree that keeping local businesses on side should be an integral part of our commercial strategy will be very important. We need to find ways to grow our commercial revenues without annoying those that have stuck with us through the bad times. That’ll be a tricky balancing act.
I noticed the change first at the Bournemouth match and thought it may have just been for the cup, but the Fulham match showed it was very much a change in direction at the club
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
If legalities are coming into it, any agreement would be with the previous Board of Directors, not the owners. And the leading light of that board is still on the current board, not that that matters either because even if a completely new board of directors comes in, they are still bound by legal agreements made by the previous board.
You're quite right. The new owners are legally entitled to come in and ride roughshod over gentlemen's agreements, promises, understandings, in fact they are legally entitled to screw over their loyal customers, suppliers and supporters any way they want. That's not the argument. The argument is whether screwing over the loyal customers, suppliers and supporters is necessarily a good thing.
There are few advantages to being perceived as untrustworthy. Let's hope they haven't done what it is said they have done.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I only think it’s pettiness if the club has done things properly. I can well imagine disgruntlement if the club has been anything other than reasonable. Although even then, there may be an element of cutting ones nose off.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:42 pmIt is quite probably that these people who you think are being a tad petty have been putting money into the club for a few decades, when they were desperately needed. I remember in the late nineties small one band businesses being phoned up in the days before a Saturday game by the club desperately hoping that they would sponsor a match ball and a table of 6 or 8 in hospitality, often it was the same few businesses that would help out, people who already had season tickets in the 100 club etc and their guest often had season tickets too - so they were effectively doubling up on the ticket sales too.
The majority of the local sponsors have a long history helping the club and while many are realistic enough to accept the club in it's current guise is moving on, doing this mid season in a time of hardship and lack of trade for them can leave a very sour taste if not handled in the right way, no matter what the average fan may think. It is why I said doing it at the end of season would be much more palatable all round given the new broom etc.
What I’ve not seen is anything concrete one way or the other, unless I’ve missed something.
I’d assume that if, or when, the time comes that the club is back in a position of brining out the begging bowl, that it won’t be the same people in charge.
If this is the case, to hold a grudge or bad will against someone with no previous involvement, would be somewhat unfair and yes, a bit petty.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
like I posted earlier those kind of grudges are long held in this area, never forgotten and rarely forgiven and often passed down the generations. I have seen it occur far too often.DCWat wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:27 amI only think it’s pettiness if the club has done things properly. I can well imagine disgruntlement if the club has been anything other than reasonable. Although even then, there may be an element of cutting ones nose off.
What I’ve not seen is anything concrete one way or the other, unless I’ve missed something.
I’d assume that if, or when, the time comes that the club is back in a position of brining out the begging bowl, that it won’t be the same people in charge.
If this is the case, to hold a grudge or bad will against someone with no previous involvement, would be somewhat unfair and yes, a bit petty.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
What do you mean when you say ‘this area’? Are you referring to Burnley, Lancashire, the North West, the North?Chester Perry wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:36 amlike I posted earlier those kind of grudges are long held in this area, never forgotten and rarely forgiven and often passed down the generations. I have seen it occur far too often.
Wherever you are, you’ll always find people like that, but likely find a greater proportion that will act far more rationally.
Have we actually got some proper detail around what has happened, or not, here?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
I was talking about this part of Lancashire - I have seen it a lot more than I have elsewhere I have worked/lived in the countryDCWat wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:57 amWhat do you mean when you say ‘this area’? Are you referring to Burnley, Lancashire, the North West, the North?
Wherever you are, you’ll always find people like that, but likely find a greater proportion that will act far more rationally.
Have we actually got some proper detail around what has happened, or not, here?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
The famous movie tycoon Samual Goldwyn (Metro, Goldwyn, Mayer) once famously quoted that “a verbal agreement is not worth the paper it’s written on”.
Seems that our new American owners have adopted this hardline business attitude to ‘gentlemen’s agreements’.
Seems that our new American owners have adopted this hardline business attitude to ‘gentlemen’s agreements’.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
How are they being untrustworthy when the agreement was made with the previous owners/board?dsr wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:24 amIf legalities are coming into it, any agreement would be with the previous Board of Directors, not the owners. And the leading light of that board is still on the current board, not that that matters either because even if a completely new board of directors comes in, they are still bound by legal agreements made by the previous board.
You're quite right. The new owners are legally entitled to come in and ride roughshod over gentlemen's agreements, promises, understandings, in fact they are legally entitled to screw over their loyal customers, suppliers and supporters any way they want. That's not the argument. The argument is whether screwing over the loyal customers, suppliers and supporters is necessarily a good thing.
There are few advantages to being perceived as untrustworthy. Let's hope they haven't done what it is said they have done.
The sponsor could make a claim that he had a deal to get reduced rates for the next 10yrs, would you expect the new to honour that?
I certainly wouldn't.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Surprised that this advertising hungry local business decided they would rather not be named in the article on the BBC which would also have made local news and ended with some with little knowledge on most things in life discussing it.
Maybe it is the business owner who just isn't very good, still it has give some of the bitter people a bit more ammo
Maybe it is the business owner who just isn't very good, still it has give some of the bitter people a bit more ammo
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
You're an encyclopaedic knowledge of such matters, CPChester Perry wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:25 amThe static boards are traditionally sold on a season by season basis, Digital boards are sold on a match by match basis.
I noticed the change first at the Bournemouth match and thought it may have just been for the cup, but the Fulham match showed it was very much a change in direction at the club
It wasn't those linked to gambling, was it? Interesting change, anyway.
I read in the BBC article that Alan is back in the US. Hope that it is a working trip, and he's doing investor roadshows, selling the club!! That or drumming up some new commercial sponsorships!
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
That or it's actually a business that hasn't been impacted by the pandemic and it would be bad PR to be seen to profiteer from the situation.claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:06 amSurprised that this advertising hungry local business decided they would rather not be named in the article on the BBC which would also have made local news and ended with some with little knowledge on most things in life discussing it.
Maybe it is the business owner who just isn't very good, still it has give some of the bitter people a bit more ammo
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
There's a lot of reference to "increased revenue streams" with an assumption that this is all upside and something that must be welcomed. Where does such revenue usually come from: fans, often. Higher ticket prices, having to tolerate more sponsorship (stadium naming right?), prices up elsewhere. I would not necessarily favour that as the price of new owners.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
re the static and digital it is more about the practicalities, for digital it is a file upload, for static a lot more effort is involved to prepare and change the boardsNewClaret wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:56 amYou're an encyclopaedic knowledge of such matters, CP
It wasn't those linked to gambling, was it? Interesting change, anyway.
I read in the BBC article that Alan is back in the US. Hope that it is a working trip, and he's doing investor roadshows, selling the club!! That or drumming up some new commercial sponsorships!
It is not just local Businesses that have disappeared - Benedictine and Oak furniture land have gone I think. What is noticeable is that the new boards are for local businesses particularly McDermott Homes, Barnfield Homes and that Padiham property company. Also for now at least the betting ones are there too.
What is apparent, even for those that say all the tv games give more eyeballs to the advertising hoardings is that most people do not notice them when watching games on tv, which would support the argument that no fans merits a reduction in price
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Revenue options -Jacko wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:42 amThere's a lot of reference to "increased revenue streams" with an assumption that this is all upside and something that must be welcomed. Where does such revenue usually come from: fans, often. Higher ticket prices, having to tolerate more sponsorship (stadium naming right?), prices up elsewhere. I would not necessarily favour that as the price of new owners.
Sponsorship deals - shirt (chest and sleeve) , ground naming and advertising boards, training ground.
Retail sales
Ticket sales
Match day stuff.
Online activities attracts attention, thus generating more clicks/likes/shares, increasing brand awareness which can then lead to more of the top 3.
Signing a player from a certain part of the world can help increase retail sales for example, that's part of the reason why Utd signed Park and Spurs signed Son.
The inclusion of the women's team can help generate more interest in the club from people who may currently feel excluded.
Whether you favour it or not, a lot of those things would need to happen in the long term and already happens at every other club in this league.
To remain competitive we need greater brand exposure.
Forgot to add Esports as a possible revenue stream.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Such things are a choice, not a "need".GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:56 amWhether you favour it or not, a lot of those things would need to happen in the long term and already happens at every other club in this league.
To remain competitive we need greater brand exposure.
If, for instance, it was as simple as, 'if you change Turf Moors Name to The Fishwick Arena, you'll get £5m quid and stay in the league or you stay as you are and get relegated' it would still be a choice. Obviously an over simplification, but the point is that debt and ever more spending is not a fait accompli.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
There are many who think Esports will generate more that the football long term, and from the participation numbers they may be right - most clubs are investing in this side - even ourselves tentatively, but Wolves have gone the whole hog and have a professional team actively competing in ChinaGodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:56 am
Forgot to add Esports as a possible revenue stream.
Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Is Esports anything to do with sitting on your arse and not getting any exercise?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Yes its a choice, grow the revenue streams or don't.Jacko wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:00 pmSuch things are a choice, not a "need".
If, for instance, it was as simple as, 'if you change Turf Moors Name to The Fishwick Arena, you'll get £5m quid and stay in the league or you stay as you are and get relegated' it would still be a choice. Obviously an over simplification, but the point is that debt and ever more spending is not a fait accompli.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
Esports has been the biggest white elepehant revenue generator in the world for the last decade imo. I remember when it was going to be the single largest revenue generator for gambling companies, but here we are 10 years on, and it barely registers revenue above reality TV revenue in the western world. The games companies, the participants and their agents are making plenty, the advertising on media platforms on the back of the huge fan bases that watch is generating plenty for media companies too, but I don't see esports itself spending masses of money on advertising. They've pretty much got a repeat captive, growing (and dare I say strongly addicted) market.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:15 pmThere are many who think Esports will generate more that the football long term, and from the participation numbers they may be right - most clubs are investing in this side - even ourselves tentatively, but Wolves have gone the whole hog and have a professional team actively competing in China
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
We don't know where it is but that isn't the point with my response to your original point.
My point was that to even try and compare the perceived failure/success of the new owners at this stage is frankly unfair and ridiculous. There is nothing in my response that you have called out as being untrue so not sure why you think it's an amazing take on the situation?
It is exactly this kind of thinking which makes me feel like we don't have all the facts of the situation. If the agreement was made by those negotiating the takeover, then I find it highly suspicious that this would then cause a concern/issue with what was agreed as this would be ironed out with the current owners to say this was in place and what we agreed so they have to stand by it.dsr wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:24 am
If legalities are coming into it, any agreement would be with the previous Board of Directors, not the owners. And the leading light of that board is still on the current board, not that that matters either because even if a completely new board of directors comes in, they are still bound by legal agreements made by the previous board.
You're quite right. The new owners are legally entitled to come in and ride roughshod over gentlemen's agreements, promises, understandings, in fact they are legally entitled to screw over their loyal customers, suppliers and supporters any way they want. That's not the argument. The argument is whether screwing over the loyal customers, suppliers and supporters is necessarily a good thing.
There are few advantages to being perceived as untrustworthy. Let's hope they haven't done what it is said they have done.
Now - this is a massive reading between the lines and I say this only to show how half a story is dangerous and I am not suggesting in any way, or form that this has happened. What if the handshake was with a 'business associate' of a director who has left and it was arranged with no knowledge of the other directors involved in the negotiations and then this has come to light after the event. That Director may no longer be about to ask/explain the agreement, nor may the new owners and current board wish to agree on it based on the fact that it wasn't approved formally.
There are other scenarios like the handshake being based on it's whilst the current owners are in place and that has been understood that as long as certain directors are on the board rather than being majority shareholder.
Frankly, I can't understand how a multi-million business that was knowingly going through a process of being bought and would be giving assurances of existing contracts in place as part of the due diligence process, have found themselves in a position of being accused of knowingly putting verbal agreements in place without understanding the potential consequences or impacts this would have should those not be honoured with the new ownership.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
A new interview with the new Chairmain in the I newspaper
Alan Pace: ‘I want Burnley to be the UK’s favourite underdog’
INTERVIEWThe Clarets’ new chairman discusses his background on Wall Street, the controversy surrounding ALK Capital’s takeover and why tech has a big part to play in the future at Turf Moor
By Sam Cunningham
February 19, 2021 6:10 pm(Updated 6:15 pm)
In his early twenties, as a young, energetic entrepreneur, Alan Pace discovered a niche way to make money.
He would identify family businesses whose owners did not have an heir apparent – no daughter or son or distant cousins interested in taking it on – and were coming to the end of their working life. They wanted someone who could continue their legacy, perhaps even expand, and Pace would become that person. He would buy into the business, learn from the owner, take it forward.
In late 1980s California, Pace focused on the farming sector, partnering with a trucking company, a produce business, some import-export firms. His investors liked him and believed in him enough to hand him their money, but it soon became apparent that Pace required formal financial training.
So he set sail for Barcelona to take a master’s degree, in what was the start of a journey that, via two decades on Wall Street, the Federal Reserve, major sports equity firms and a financial crisis, would end some 30 years later at a town in Lancashire. In December he was announced as the new chairman of Burnley after his investment group, ALK Capital, purchased a controlling stake in the club.
But back in the 1990s, his first job in finance was at Lehman Brothers, in their London HQ. After a few years he relocated his family to New York and was then asked to get on board with a sport private equity firm. It led to him becoming chief executive and president of Real Salt Lake, headhunted by owner Dave Checketts, and within two seasons they became MLS champions.
When the financial crisis hit in 2008, Pace was asked to return to banking and spent time at the Federal Reserve – America’s central bank. For the next decade he continued to manage and control multi-billion dollar divisions, until 2019 when he established ALK Capital with the aim of buying a football club.
Before we get to that, though, what is it like being responsible for quite so much money? “What I learned very early on Wall Street is they’re just zeros,” Pace, a dual British -American citizen, says. “My father was an entrepreneur, he would also prepare my tax returns. He’d been an accountant.
“He’d say, ‘Son, it’s only a difference of three or four zeros’. And the reality is – and I think most people on Wall Street would tell you the same thing – once you actually get into it, at first it’s a little overwhelming, the first time you see those kinds of numbers. But it becomes normal; a weird kind of normal. It’s just zeros, and it’s not yours, it’s somebody’s else’s.”
Isn’t that even more pressure? “Depending on what you’re doing, yes, but in my responsibilities, it’s much more like being at a football club. You’re almost a custodian of what you’re dealing with and you’re responsible for not doing any harm.
ALK Capital’s purchase of Burnley has not been free from controversy, and some critics have pointed to the fact that a previously shrewdly-run club, who have invested their returns from several years in the Premier League back into the club, are now saddled with debt. But Pace, 53, insists they are behaving responsibly, and tells i that he is in it for the long haul.
“We looked at a number of clubs around the country. We’d built a model on our side of what we are looking to do, going forward. The simplest thing to think about is we’re looking at building a platform of sports media and entertainment that draws in a tremendous amount of desire to be connected to a club, but not necessarily at that level of what you’re talking about for a Man United or a Chelsea. It draws interest and produces content to fill that interest level.”
Pace has three children under the age of 25 and wants to harness the way they – and young people in general – engage with the world today, mainly online, at Burnley. “If you look at what engagement they have and what drives them, they’d rather see the highlights for five minutes than necessarily watching the whole game.
“If they can see more things regularly, they want to stay connected to things they find interesting. That’s the same reason Snapchat works, Instagram works, the same reason all social media works, because you want to stay connected.
“We’re looking for something to connect to. When you look at something you want to connect to, you’re looking at a couple of different things. What’s the ability to create those connections? But also, how does it operate every day? How much passion and culture is tied to that same thing?”
ALK Capital were looking for a well-run club but with room to grow. “Are you buying a house that’s got holes in the walls and you’re going to have to rebuild the wall? Or are you buying a house that’s already done up, like a Man United or a Man City, and all you get to do is play on the fringes?”
During their search, Pace asked to see how a club was run, the culture, background, what they could potentially do with it. They were not looking for a Manchester City or Liverpool – clubs that are already maximising their potential and left little to play with – but beneath that. “And we found that this club [Burnley] was operated super well. It’s really well disciplined. It’s reinvested the proceeds from their time in the Premier League to things like the academy, rather than things like players, who get injured and end up costing you money.
“I’d love everyone to think of us as Britain’s favourite underdog. You can see how that’s easy to connect to. It’s doesn’t take a lot. We’re small market, we’re outside of Manchester, we’re not big, we’re not sexy, but it’s not hard for somebody to say, look, I don’t know who you are but I can support you when you play my arch-enemy team.”
He adds: “We’ve found that diamond in the rough, sitting here in Burnley, with a great culture and community, a club operating in a way that was fairly unique.”
Pace has experience in sports technology and one way he plans on adding to Burnley is through innovation. They have officially partnered with AiSCOUT, an app through which any young amateur footballer can upload a series of videos showing off their skill that feeds into Burnley’s recruitment team (and other clubs who sign up). It has the potential to revolutionise youth scouting.
“Think of it as crowdfunding talent,” Pace says.
“If I’m trying to build, this is a fairly inexpensive way to leverage the resources that already exist at the club. Those resources are coaching, facilities, the technical side. You’re doing a scouting process remotely. Just like Zoom exploded on the back of Covid, we think AiSCOUT will do the same thing. Clubs can’t send their people out to go do scouting, and there’s way more players out there with way more ambitions than there ever are scouts. So it’s an easy way to compare capabilities and use some of the same intelligence to predict their ability to actually go further.”
Pace understands that winning matches, avoiding relegation, qualifying for Europe, whatever a club’s goals, is the “tremendous pressure that overrides everything” and that AiSCOUT will take five-plus years to create an end product.
“If our goal and long-term thinking is that five-year plan, this technology works beautifully for that. If we can create that culture of using technology and that it’s a safe environment to think about it, then we’ll be able to do other things that may impact game day.
“I can be honest with you: I have a 20-year plan. I break it down into five-year increments and then I’ve got one, three and five for the next five. From being an entrepreneur and businessperson that’s how I’ve always thought about things.”
Another technology on the horizon is Player Lens, a growing global platform which football recruiters can use to search for players and execute transfers. It could potentially cut agents out of the system. “I’m not sure that I really like the agent market very well,” Pace says. “I’m much more comfortable in an electronic exchange, that everyone is transparent and understands. The stock exchange got done with needing to have a broker in the middle a long time ago.”
Like most technological innovation, that would hugely disrupt the agency business. As entrepreneur collides with football, can Burnley disrupt the Premier League?
Alan Pace: ‘I want Burnley to be the UK’s favourite underdog’
INTERVIEWThe Clarets’ new chairman discusses his background on Wall Street, the controversy surrounding ALK Capital’s takeover and why tech has a big part to play in the future at Turf Moor
By Sam Cunningham
February 19, 2021 6:10 pm(Updated 6:15 pm)
In his early twenties, as a young, energetic entrepreneur, Alan Pace discovered a niche way to make money.
He would identify family businesses whose owners did not have an heir apparent – no daughter or son or distant cousins interested in taking it on – and were coming to the end of their working life. They wanted someone who could continue their legacy, perhaps even expand, and Pace would become that person. He would buy into the business, learn from the owner, take it forward.
In late 1980s California, Pace focused on the farming sector, partnering with a trucking company, a produce business, some import-export firms. His investors liked him and believed in him enough to hand him their money, but it soon became apparent that Pace required formal financial training.
So he set sail for Barcelona to take a master’s degree, in what was the start of a journey that, via two decades on Wall Street, the Federal Reserve, major sports equity firms and a financial crisis, would end some 30 years later at a town in Lancashire. In December he was announced as the new chairman of Burnley after his investment group, ALK Capital, purchased a controlling stake in the club.
But back in the 1990s, his first job in finance was at Lehman Brothers, in their London HQ. After a few years he relocated his family to New York and was then asked to get on board with a sport private equity firm. It led to him becoming chief executive and president of Real Salt Lake, headhunted by owner Dave Checketts, and within two seasons they became MLS champions.
When the financial crisis hit in 2008, Pace was asked to return to banking and spent time at the Federal Reserve – America’s central bank. For the next decade he continued to manage and control multi-billion dollar divisions, until 2019 when he established ALK Capital with the aim of buying a football club.
Before we get to that, though, what is it like being responsible for quite so much money? “What I learned very early on Wall Street is they’re just zeros,” Pace, a dual British -American citizen, says. “My father was an entrepreneur, he would also prepare my tax returns. He’d been an accountant.
“He’d say, ‘Son, it’s only a difference of three or four zeros’. And the reality is – and I think most people on Wall Street would tell you the same thing – once you actually get into it, at first it’s a little overwhelming, the first time you see those kinds of numbers. But it becomes normal; a weird kind of normal. It’s just zeros, and it’s not yours, it’s somebody’s else’s.”
Isn’t that even more pressure? “Depending on what you’re doing, yes, but in my responsibilities, it’s much more like being at a football club. You’re almost a custodian of what you’re dealing with and you’re responsible for not doing any harm.
ALK Capital’s purchase of Burnley has not been free from controversy, and some critics have pointed to the fact that a previously shrewdly-run club, who have invested their returns from several years in the Premier League back into the club, are now saddled with debt. But Pace, 53, insists they are behaving responsibly, and tells i that he is in it for the long haul.
“We looked at a number of clubs around the country. We’d built a model on our side of what we are looking to do, going forward. The simplest thing to think about is we’re looking at building a platform of sports media and entertainment that draws in a tremendous amount of desire to be connected to a club, but not necessarily at that level of what you’re talking about for a Man United or a Chelsea. It draws interest and produces content to fill that interest level.”
Pace has three children under the age of 25 and wants to harness the way they – and young people in general – engage with the world today, mainly online, at Burnley. “If you look at what engagement they have and what drives them, they’d rather see the highlights for five minutes than necessarily watching the whole game.
“If they can see more things regularly, they want to stay connected to things they find interesting. That’s the same reason Snapchat works, Instagram works, the same reason all social media works, because you want to stay connected.
“We’re looking for something to connect to. When you look at something you want to connect to, you’re looking at a couple of different things. What’s the ability to create those connections? But also, how does it operate every day? How much passion and culture is tied to that same thing?”
ALK Capital were looking for a well-run club but with room to grow. “Are you buying a house that’s got holes in the walls and you’re going to have to rebuild the wall? Or are you buying a house that’s already done up, like a Man United or a Man City, and all you get to do is play on the fringes?”
During their search, Pace asked to see how a club was run, the culture, background, what they could potentially do with it. They were not looking for a Manchester City or Liverpool – clubs that are already maximising their potential and left little to play with – but beneath that. “And we found that this club [Burnley] was operated super well. It’s really well disciplined. It’s reinvested the proceeds from their time in the Premier League to things like the academy, rather than things like players, who get injured and end up costing you money.
“I’d love everyone to think of us as Britain’s favourite underdog. You can see how that’s easy to connect to. It’s doesn’t take a lot. We’re small market, we’re outside of Manchester, we’re not big, we’re not sexy, but it’s not hard for somebody to say, look, I don’t know who you are but I can support you when you play my arch-enemy team.”
He adds: “We’ve found that diamond in the rough, sitting here in Burnley, with a great culture and community, a club operating in a way that was fairly unique.”
Pace has experience in sports technology and one way he plans on adding to Burnley is through innovation. They have officially partnered with AiSCOUT, an app through which any young amateur footballer can upload a series of videos showing off their skill that feeds into Burnley’s recruitment team (and other clubs who sign up). It has the potential to revolutionise youth scouting.
“Think of it as crowdfunding talent,” Pace says.
“If I’m trying to build, this is a fairly inexpensive way to leverage the resources that already exist at the club. Those resources are coaching, facilities, the technical side. You’re doing a scouting process remotely. Just like Zoom exploded on the back of Covid, we think AiSCOUT will do the same thing. Clubs can’t send their people out to go do scouting, and there’s way more players out there with way more ambitions than there ever are scouts. So it’s an easy way to compare capabilities and use some of the same intelligence to predict their ability to actually go further.”
Pace understands that winning matches, avoiding relegation, qualifying for Europe, whatever a club’s goals, is the “tremendous pressure that overrides everything” and that AiSCOUT will take five-plus years to create an end product.
“If our goal and long-term thinking is that five-year plan, this technology works beautifully for that. If we can create that culture of using technology and that it’s a safe environment to think about it, then we’ll be able to do other things that may impact game day.
“I can be honest with you: I have a 20-year plan. I break it down into five-year increments and then I’ve got one, three and five for the next five. From being an entrepreneur and businessperson that’s how I’ve always thought about things.”
Another technology on the horizon is Player Lens, a growing global platform which football recruiters can use to search for players and execute transfers. It could potentially cut agents out of the system. “I’m not sure that I really like the agent market very well,” Pace says. “I’m much more comfortable in an electronic exchange, that everyone is transparent and understands. The stock exchange got done with needing to have a broker in the middle a long time ago.”
Like most technological innovation, that would hugely disrupt the agency business. As entrepreneur collides with football, can Burnley disrupt the Premier League?
These 2 users liked this post: GodIsADeeJay81 Paul Waine
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
So the big deal is setting up a tech based player agency.
That's a big market, and a market that every club would want to buy into.
There's an awful lot of barriers though.
That's a big market, and a market that every club would want to buy into.
There's an awful lot of barriers though.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover
And that's probably the tech link for MSD.