ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Foshiznik » Tue May 23, 2023 11:55 am

Ok, i come here as an absolute layman when it comes to finances, business and football finances so most of this although very interesting goes right over my head.

Is anyone able to tell me how much debt the club had following the takeover and how much debt we now currently have? I remember there was alot of discussion on this thread when we were relegated as we had to pay some money on some loans or something (as i say I'm a layman!) so would i be right or naive to assume that our debt has reduced since the takeover and am i ok to now be less concerned given that it will (again i assume) be relatively sustainable to repay with promotion and the Premier League money?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 23, 2023 11:58 am

Foshiznik wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 11:55 am
Ok, i come here as an absolute layman when it comes to finances, business and football finances so most of this although very interesting goes right over my head.

Is anyone able to tell me how much debt the club had following the takeover and how much debt we now currently have? I remember there was alot of discussion on this thread when we were relegated as we had to pay some money on some loans or something (as i say I'm a layman!) so would i be right or naive to assume that our debt has reduced since the takeover and am i ok to now be less concerned given that it will (again i assume) be relatively sustainable to repay with promotion and the Premier League money?
following the takeover it was £65m

Now it is £39.7m

but to get to that point by today it has cost the club in the region of £46m

Annual Interest on the outstanding debt is a little short of £3m (last accounts with MSD it was £7m)
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Foshiznik » Tue May 23, 2023 12:02 pm

Cheers Chester. Other than the good news that the debt figure is going down, the cost of doing so makes it look like a payday loan!

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ArmchairDetective » Tue May 23, 2023 12:14 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 11:58 am
following the takeover it was £65m

Now it is £39.7m

but to get to that point by today it has cost the club in the region of £46m

Annual Interest on the outstanding debt is a little short of £3m (last accounts with MSD it was £7m)
I've also struggled to keep up with club finances due to lack of time and layman understanding. This is a very helpful summary of where were at. Thanks Chester Perry.

Is the club owed anything from ALK due to the nature of the buyout?

Seems manageable for a Premier League club, would you say?

Thanks.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 23, 2023 12:17 pm

ArmchairDetective wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 12:14 pm
I've also struggled to keep up with club finances due to lack of time and layman understanding. This is a very helpful summary of where were at. Thanks Chester Perry.

Is the club owed anything from ALK due to the nature of the buyout?

Seems manageable for a Premier League club, would you say?

Thanks.
The owners via CVHL owe club owe £114.8m according to the 2022 accounts recently published

those same accounts say that club owe ALK £1m though for what we do not know

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Foshiznik » Tue May 23, 2023 12:21 pm

Does that mean then that the money they "borrowed" from the club for the takeover will eventually mean we are actually better off or in essence is that money akin to an interest free loan?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 23, 2023 12:25 pm

ArmchairDetective wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 12:14 pm

Seems manageable for a Premier League club, would you say?
Yes, though this is a club essentially starting on a new Premier League adventure - it has most of the infrastructure but there is a lot of nous, experience and capability needs injecting into the playing staff (and possibly coaching staff too)

If the club factor TV revenues as I expect them to it will have to operate with less money in its cost base - the challenge is for then to substantially grow the Commercial side - the last accounts were very disappointing on that front
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ArmchairDetective » Tue May 23, 2023 12:28 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 12:17 pm
The owners via CVHL owe club owe £114.8m according to the 2022 accounts recently published

those same accounts say that club owe ALK £1m though for what we do not know
Thanks. That £1m is interesting.

I guess in theory then the 114.8m is repaid when the owners come to sell the club unless somehow they were to find that investment elsewhere.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 23, 2023 12:30 pm

Foshiznik wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 12:21 pm
Does that mean then that the money they "borrowed" from the club for the takeover will eventually mean we are actually better off or in essence is that money akin to an interest free loan?
The money loaned to CVHL is interest free and for an indeterminate period - technically it can be called in at any time - though this is unlikely

Most informed observers believe it will never be repaid to the club in a way that meaningfully increases the clubs cash balance and certainly not the cost it has borne in facilitating the loan (with MSD and Macquarie)

The anticipation is that the club will pay it off using one of the dividend methods now allowed in the Articles of association which were extensively rewritten earlier this year or when the club is sold on in the future, though it is possible to sell the cub with the outstanding debt still in place by selling it as a higher group level
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Tue May 23, 2023 12:33 pm

Foshiznik wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 12:21 pm
Does that mean then that the money they "borrowed" from the club for the takeover will eventually mean we are actually better off or in essence is that money akin to an interest free loan?
Judging by the notes in the accounts there is no real intention for ALK to physically pay that money back to the club.

It may be "repaid" by means of dividends (the club declares dividends to ALK but as ALK already owe the club lots of money it gets offset against that and no cash changes hands) or as part of the sale of the club.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Foshiznik » Tue May 23, 2023 12:36 pm

Very interesting and I for one really appreciate your patience in explaining all this to me!

I guess one can only hope then that ALK don't start siphoning out funds as dividends/loans to themselves, ala the Glazer Family without putting investment/reinvestment/repayment in the club at a greater priority.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Tue May 23, 2023 1:03 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 11:42 am
The ALK Capital Limited accounts are now available to view

...

so what is there to justify being almost 11 months late in the filing? because I see nothing that would have taken more than an hour or two for a professional to make this report
As I've said previously, my guess for the most likely delay from my experience would be getting all the admin of ultimate owners, source of funds, identity checks and the rest done. You generally can't start putting any time on the clock until all that is sorted and sometimes there are annoying hold ups (particularly with US clients as the requirements there are much less onerous).

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 23, 2023 1:10 pm

Foshiznik wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 12:36 pm
Very interesting and I for one really appreciate your patience in explaining all this to me!

I guess one can only hope then that ALK don't start siphoning out funds as dividends/loans to themselves, ala the Glazer Family without putting investment/reinvestment/repayment in the club at a greater priority.
If ALK/VSL start the club paying dividends (as it used to in Bob Lord's tenure) then it will also have to pay them out to the 16,371 shares it doesn't own on an equal basis in cash:

12,048 still held by the old board members - who featured in the original deal
4,323 still held by small shareholders

of course ALK/VSL hold 106,107 shares in the club
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Tue May 23, 2023 1:15 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 12:25 pm
Yes, though this is a club essentially starting on a new Premier League adventure - it has most of the infrastructure but there is a lot of nous, experience and capability needs injecting into the playing staff (and possibly coaching staff too)

If the club factor TV revenues as I expect them to it will have to operate with less money in its cost base - the challenge is for then to substantially grow the Commercial side - the last accounts were very disappointing on that front
Is there a specific reason that you're basing the factoring of tv money on or just expectation based on the previous transfer fees, other teams in the league?

I've got a feeling that Leicester may have already borrowed against next season's tv money which could be an issue for them.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 23, 2023 1:15 pm

aggi wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 1:03 pm
As I've said previously, my guess for the most likely delay from my experience would be getting all the admin of ultimate owners, source of funds, identity checks and the rest done. You generally can't start putting any time on the clock until all that is sorted and sometimes there are annoying hold ups (particularly with US clients as the requirements there are much less onerous).
well I still don't see how that can justify being a further 11 months late - given they had 9 months to get that right in regulation time

still only 38 days to the next set of accounts from ALK Capital limited - hopefully things will be a lot smoother and then we can begin to see an aligning of reporting dates going forward across all these entities

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 23, 2023 3:49 pm

aggi wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 1:15 pm
Is there a specific reason that you're basing the factoring of tv money on or just expectation based on the previous transfer fees, other teams in the league?

I've got a feeling that Leicester may have already borrowed against next season's tv money which could be an issue for them.
speculation based on the likely need of cash to pay for the down payments on the anticipated spend this summer (which I actually think may be rather significant) given that any cash held will have already gone on bonuses and conditional transfer payments triggered by promotion

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Tue May 23, 2023 4:12 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 3:49 pm
speculation based on the likely need of cash to pay for the down payments on the anticipated spend this summer (which I actually think may be rather significant) given that any cash held will have already gone on bonuses and conditional transfer payments triggered by promotion
I sincerely hope that is not true. Would genuinely rather we didn’t sign any players and raided the loan market again to the extent possible, than to factor tv money.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Taffy on the wing » Tue May 23, 2023 4:17 pm

Foshiznik wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 12:02 pm
Cheers Chester. Other than the good news that the debt figure is going down, the cost of doing so makes it look like a payday loan!
Bankers eh?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by RVclaret » Tue May 23, 2023 4:18 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 4:12 pm
I sincerely hope that is not true. Would genuinely rather we didn’t sign any players and raided the loan market again to the extent possible, than to factor tv money.
I don’t understand this view at all. Many clubs factor TV money. Even the Saudis did this season, not only TV money but all match-day related income! It’s totally normal, particularly for promoted clubs (we did it on our last promotion).

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 23, 2023 4:22 pm

Taffy on the wing wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 4:17 pm
Bankers eh?
MSD are not Bankers - they are more Private Equity - there is a reason all Private Equity posts on the MMT have 'The vultures are at the door' tag in them

Macquarie are a bank - though there is a reason that they are known as the 'Vampire Kangaroo' they can be as ruthless as Private Equity when they want to be

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Tue May 23, 2023 5:04 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 4:18 pm
I don’t understand this view at all. Many clubs factor TV money. Even the Saudis did this season, not only TV money but all match-day related income! It’s totally normal, particularly for promoted clubs (we did it on our last promotion).
Given that you get a decent tranche of income before the start of the season you do have to wonder at the requirement to bring more of the money forward when your major cost, wages, runs throughout the season.

But the real issue comes when you start to borrow against future seasons' income. Leeds are obviously the best example of that.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Tue May 23, 2023 5:32 pm

Foshiznik wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 12:21 pm
Does that mean then that the money they "borrowed" from the club for the takeover will eventually mean we are actually better off or in essence is that money akin to an interest free loan?
ALK also has a private deferred payment loan arrangement of £68 million with the former owners.

As far as I am aware there is nothing in the public domain about this other than reports in the media that as of Jan 22 none of it had been repaid: rebutted by ALK and the former owners.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue May 23, 2023 5:37 pm

just out of interest how much money did we get for being champions ?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 23, 2023 5:40 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 5:37 pm
just out of interest how much money did we get for being champions ?
I do not believe the EFL award prize money/merit payments

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Tue May 23, 2023 5:43 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 4:18 pm
I don’t understand this view at all. Many clubs factor TV money. Even the Saudis did this season, not only TV money but all match-day related income! It’s totally normal, particularly for promoted clubs (we did it on our last promotion).
We did this previously? Is that right? Who provided the financing?

I didn’t know that and I’m shocked someone as prudent as MG would do that. Which may mean I’m being unnecessarily concerned.

But to explain, I don’t mind factoring player sales since they’re a debt. TV money is an income & therefore very much like a payday loan in my opinion.

I obviously want us to strengthen and build but I’d genuinely prefer us to do that through very good use of the loan and free market (Kent, Manning as examples - maybe not my first picks) than take on any debt based on future income.

There’s only so long you can keep taking on debt before it catches up with you. We have £40m and I’m hoping our stay in the Prem sees us reduce, not add to that!

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretTony » Tue May 23, 2023 5:45 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 5:37 pm
just out of interest how much money did we get for being champions ?
Nothing from the league

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 23, 2023 5:46 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 5:32 pm
ALK also has a private deferred payment loan arrangement of £68 million with the former owners.

As far as I am aware there is nothing in the public domain about this other than reports in the media that as of Jan 22 none of it had been repaid: rebutted by ALK and the former owners.
Is that the stage payments that I believe total £72m with £51m paid as of October 2022 and the outstanding £21m due at some point this year

If so I can understand why that tale was rebutted

There is a ringfence on the outstanding 12,048 that the original sellers still hold - the offer letter to the small shareholders dated October 4 2021 had this to say about that

1. SUMMARY OF THE ACQUISITION?
1.1. As at the date of this letter, CVHL has completed on the Acquisition for 84% of the issued share capital of BHL from BHL’s former controlling shareholders (the “Sellers”) and been granted an option by the Sellers to acquire additional shares, comprising approximately 10% of the issued share capital of BHL, over a four-year period. Accordingly, upon exercise of the option in full, VS will indirectly own approximately 94% of the shares in BHL (the "VS Shares").

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 23, 2023 5:48 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 5:43 pm
We did this previously? Is that right? Who provided the financing?

I didn’t know that and I’m shocked someone as prudent as MG would do that. Which may mean I’m being unnecessarily concerned.

But to explain, I don’t mind factoring player sales since they’re a debt. TV money is an income & therefore very much like a payday loan in my opinion.

I obviously want us to strengthen and build but I’d genuinely prefer us to do that through very good use of the loan and free market (Kent, Manning as examples - maybe not my first picks) than take on any debt based on future income.

There’s only so long you can keep taking on debt before it catches up with you. We have £40m and I’m hoping our stay in the Prem sees us reduce, not add to that!
Did it on the first promotion under Dyche - with Barclays

Covered the Prem year and the (then) 4 years of parachute payments

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Tue May 23, 2023 5:49 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 5:48 pm
Did it on the first promotion under Dyche - with Barclays

Covered the Prem year and the (then) 4 years of parachute payments
Wow. So a full up front receipt of all Prem TV income for four years?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 23, 2023 5:52 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 5:49 pm
Wow. So a full up front receipt of all Prem TV income for four years?
God No - partial from each year to forward a lump sum for the costs of bring the turf up to scratch, bonuses and other spending costs

It would have been a conservative sum from Garlick, but still needed at the time

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 23, 2023 5:55 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 5:48 pm
Did it on the first promotion under Dyche - with Barclays

Covered the Prem year and the (then) 4 years of parachute payments
I suspect, rare is the occasion more than 30% of the income is advanced

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Tue May 23, 2023 6:02 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 5:46 pm
Is that the stage payments that I believe total £72m with £51m paid as of October 2022 and the outstanding £21m due at some point this year

If so I can understand why that tale was rebutted

There is a ringfence on the outstanding 12,048 that the original sellers still hold - the offer letter to the small shareholders dated October 4 2021 had this to say about that

1. SUMMARY OF THE ACQUISITION?
1.1. As at the date of this letter, CVHL has completed on the Acquisition for 84% of the issued share capital of BHL from BHL’s former controlling shareholders (the “Sellers”) and been granted an option by the Sellers to acquire additional shares, comprising approximately 10% of the issued share capital of BHL, over a four-year period. Accordingly, upon exercise of the option in full, VS will indirectly own approximately 94% of the shares in BHL (the "VS Shares").
Yes but I've yet to see anything, which corroborates those figures or any payments made.

And £51 million is an awful lot of money

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 23, 2023 6:10 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 6:02 pm
Yes but I've yet to see anything, which corroborates those figures or any payments made.

And £51 million is an awful lot of money
The money held by Clarets Go Large Ltd suggests stage payments have been made

Freight Investor Holdings Ltd - so all its shares in the club paid for inside a year, again that suggest the the 1st stage payment was made

beyond that we have no public record -

however there is this - again from that informative offer Letter to the small shareholders about what could happen if there was a default - which would include one on a stage payment

1.5. The Acquisition has been structured with the long-term financial health and stability of the Club at its core. Consequently, VS and the Sellers have agreed provisions to protect against any insolvency process involving the Club that could result from or on account of the terms of the Acquisition. Rather than allowing enforcement, in the case of a default, that could force the Club into insolvency, an alternative mechanism exists by which Sellers can reacquire their interest in the Club. If circumstances arose and Sellers were to do so, VS would retain an interest in the Club, with the level of such interest being established by reference to payments made to the Sellers as part of the Acquisition.

we know that has not happened - so that can be called evidence of the stage payments being made

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Tue May 23, 2023 6:30 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 6:10 pm
The money held by Clarets Go Large Ltd suggests stage payments have been made

Freight Investor Holdings Ltd - so all its shares in the club paid for inside a year, again that suggest the the 1st stage payment was made

beyond that we have no public record -

however there is this - again from that informative offer Letter to the small shareholders about what could happen if there was a default - which would include one on a stage payment

1.5. The Acquisition has been structured with the long-term financial health and stability of the Club at its core. Consequently, VS and the Sellers have agreed provisions to protect against any insolvency process involving the Club that could result from or on account of the terms of the Acquisition. Rather than allowing enforcement, in the case of a default, that could force the Club into insolvency, an alternative mechanism exists by which Sellers can reacquire their interest in the Club. If circumstances arose and Sellers were to do so, VS would retain an interest in the Club, with the level of such interest being established by reference to payments made to the Sellers as part of the Acquisition.

we know that has not happened - so that can be called evidence of the stage payments being made


Excellent research but I don't know how you link those two accounts to the deferred payments.

The last set of accounts for Clarets Go Large was y/e ended May 21 . Why would they defer payments if it had been paid off by May 21.

Freights money was a debtor in Dec 20 - paid by Dec 21.

How do you know that wasn't the £102 million initial payment or something else altogether?

I don't think you can suggest that the former owners not reacquiring the club is a sign of staged payments.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 23, 2023 6:39 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 6:30 pm
Excellent research but I don't know how you link those two accounts to the deferred payments.

The last set of accounts for Clarets Go Large was y/e ended May 21 . Why would they defer payments if it had been paid off by May 21.

Freights money was a debtor in Dec 20 - paid by Dec 21.

How do you know that wasn't the £102 million initial payment or something else altogether?
You are correct in that there is no definitive source - as I keep saying I obtain my picture (and degree of clarity/certainty) by overlaying information to build a more comprehensive picture

this is who sold what from what entity

The takeover - who sold what.JPG
The takeover - who sold what.JPG (80.94 KiB) Viewed 1431 times

as for the £102m v £98m I went into that in some detail on the previous page - I think you missed the evidence of ALK/VSL contribution

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue May 23, 2023 8:03 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 5:40 pm
I do not believe the EFL award prize money/merit payments
bonkers

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 23, 2023 8:06 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 8:03 pm
bonkers
actually it is much more equitable that way

much better than this I have just been reading

https://twitter.com/uglygame/status/1660697282574991360

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue May 23, 2023 8:16 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 8:06 pm
actually it is much more equitable that way

much better than this I have just been reading

https://twitter.com/uglygame/status/1660697282574991360
two ways of looking at it, has the quality of the overall league got better? I would say it has, so whilst the rich are getting richer it's making the rest strive harder to keep up. Now, no doubt whatsoever it will make it an unenviable task going forward for promoted teams to compete to even stay in the league never mind progress up it - but the flip side of that is the points total required to stay up is seemingly lowering every year. I think at this stage there is very little anyone can do to save the PL from itself, the figures the top 8 clubs are spending are beyond outrageous and I'm sure the PL aren't going to relegate all 8 for their 'interesting' financial dealings (which no doubt whatsoever they do)

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by scouseclaret » Tue May 23, 2023 11:22 pm

Foshiznik wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 12:36 pm
Very interesting and I for one really appreciate your patience in explaining all this to me!

I guess one can only hope then that ALK don't start siphoning out funds as dividends/loans to themselves, ala the Glazer Family without putting investment/reinvestment/repayment in the club at a greater priority.
Why else do you think they bought the club? These guys are venture capitalists, not philanthropists. That’s not to say they won’t run the club successfully, but let’s not be naive about it.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Foshiznik » Wed May 24, 2023 8:11 am

scouseclaret wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 11:22 pm
Why else do you think they bought the club? These guys are venture capitalists, not philanthropists. That’s not to say they won’t run the club successfully, but let’s not be naive about it.
Of course, but I am more of the hope that they are looking to increase the value of the club to earn any benefits rather than stripping it's assets to it's bare bones and splitting, leaving us to pick up the pieces in the lower leagues.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by fatboy47 » Wed May 24, 2023 8:16 am

Past fears about asset-stripping (inc my own) tended towards cynicism rather than naivety.

Like it or lump it, their actions from the Dyche sacking onwards couldn't be further from those of an asset-stripper.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Foshiznik » Wed May 24, 2023 8:27 am

fatboy47 wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 8:16 am
Past fears about asset-stripping (inc my own) tended towards cynicism rather than naivety.

Like it or lump it, their actions from the Dyche sacking onwards couldn't be further from those of an asset-stripper.
Absolutely they've done a great job as owners in terms of their work on marketing, backing Vinny and the Dyche to Kompany transition and i genuinely hope it continues. That said, it still doesn't mean they won't asset strip. We've seen it on a bigger scale at the only other leveraged buyout in England (Man Utd) and similar at Bury and Sunderland, so I'm not naive enough to think that because the first 12 months have been nothing but amazing, the fear of asset stripping is now null and void.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed May 24, 2023 8:31 am

Foshiznik wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 8:27 am
Absolutely they've done a great job as owners in terms of their work on marketing, backing Vinny and the Dyche to Kompany transition and i genuinely hope it continues. That said, it still doesn't mean they won't asset strip. We've seen it on a bigger scale at the only other leveraged buyout in England (Man Utd) and similar at Bury and Sunderland, so I'm not naive enough to think that because the first 12 months have been nothing but amazing, the fear of asset stripping is now null and void.
You might enjoy the football experience even more if you don't live with this fear.

When you read comments like asset strip I am convinced about 99% of the time the person using it doesn't really understand what they are saying. What assets are they going to strip, how long will it go on for and how much do you think they could make from doing this stripping.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ArmchairDetective » Wed May 24, 2023 8:47 am

I have no doubts that the end goal is a return on their investment.

But from my perspective I'm not sure how they benefit from asset stripping when compared to the potential increase in value of the club through increasing interest and commercial revenue. Plus the latter is surely a much more fun ride than the former, particularly for someone who has moved to and had their children marry into the local area. For me, all signs point towards a longer term interest in growing the brand.

But that's not to say if things don't go pear shaped in the future that selling our assets won't make the most financial sense at a certain point. We kind of already did this over the relegation summer to an extent.

If feels like we're in a riskier position now compared to a couple of years ago, but probably no riskier and perhaps less than we were during the Coyle promotion season.

But I tell you what, there's much more of an excitement around the club than there was a couple of years ago.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by dsr » Wed May 24, 2023 9:32 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 8:31 am
You might enjoy the football experience even more if you don't live with this fear.

When you read comments like asset strip I am convinced about 99% of the time the person using it doesn't really understand what they are saying. What assets are they going to strip, how long will it go on for and how much do you think they could make from doing this stripping.
They've stripped £114m so far.

No-one doubts that ALK are in it to make money. The question is how much money they will take, and also whether they are good enough at running a football club so that BFC can prosper in spite of the money taken out and the interest on loans that BFC has to pay. So far their running of the first team has been exemplary.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by randomclaret2 » Wed May 24, 2023 9:33 am

scouseclaret wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 11:22 pm
Why else do you think they bought the club? These guys are venture capitalists, not philanthropists. That’s not to say they won’t run the club successfully, but let’s not be naive about it.
Which category was Mr Garlick in ?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed May 24, 2023 9:35 am

dsr wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 9:32 am
They've stripped £114m so far.

No-one doubts that ALK are in it to make money. The question is how much money they will take, and also whether they are good enough at running a football club so that BFC can prosper in spite of the money taken out and the interest on loans that BFC has to pay. So far their running of the first team has been exemplary.

Like I said 99% of people

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Foshiznik » Wed May 24, 2023 9:41 am

It's like we can't enjoy the club on the pitch if we have fears off of it surrounding the club. It is absolutely fine to feel that way. Doesn't make the positives any less positive. I'm just a realist and won't act ignorant to the fact that leveraged buyouts that take a club who have been working in the green for a long time into heavy debt that if the proverbial hits the fan in future it will be us picking up the tab and cleaning up the mess and not ALK.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Foshiznik » Wed May 24, 2023 9:46 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 8:31 am
You might enjoy the football experience even more if you don't live with this fear.

When you read comments like asset strip I am convinced about 99% of the time the person using it doesn't really understand what they are saying. What assets are they going to strip, how long will it go on for and how much do you think they could make from doing this stripping.
You do realise we are in debt because of the takeover and not poor financial decisions right? It's literal asset stripping. What's to say they don't sell all of our decent players, sell the training ground, sell the stadium, etc. and pocket the profit in their own accounts in future? Making a very promising start to their ownership doesn't make that less likely.

Personally, I will hold that fear until the debt is gone fully.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed May 24, 2023 9:51 am

Foshiznik wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 9:46 am
You do realise we are in debt because of the takeover and not poor financial decisions right? It's literal asset stripping. What's to say they don't sell all of our decent players, sell the training ground, sell the stadium, etc. and pocket the profit in their own accounts in future? Making a very promising start to their ownership doesn't make that less likely.

Personally, I will hold that fear until the debt is gone fully.
:D :D :D

So just so I understand your fears, while we have a debt you fear the owners could sell all the players, the training ground and the stadium and pocket the money, but once the debt has gone you don't have those fears ?

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