ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

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aggi
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:30 am

aggi wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:04 am
...

A possibly interesting tweet from Matt Slater (who is also the journalist in the Athletic who suggested that our loan had been refinanced with Macquarie) showing a load of charges satisfied by Sheffield Utd by, he believes, refinancing their borrowings by taking more from Macquarie and they will be secured against PL broadcast payments. There's no new charge appearing for this at the moment for Sheff Utd.

https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/1 ... 6050114561
Scratch that, new charges have appeared for this. Secured on the next 3 years of revenue which I wouldn't say is ideal for them.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:48 am

aggi wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:30 am
Scratch that, new charges have appeared for this. Secured on the next 3 years of revenue which I wouldn't say is ideal for them.
As I posted on the MMT last night Sheffield United are in the Macquarie loop now - very difficult to get out of that rinse and repeat cycle once you are in - as clubs like Leicester have found

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:39 am

It's all getting quite mysterious because you wonder why Garlick would lend £40 million to the club other than he had to because it was evident the club could not run as well as meet the obligations of the MSD loan. Presuming I am reading the accounts correctly MSD could have taken 3/4s of next years parachute money, which if true is a somewhat of reckless thing to agree to.

On top of that is the fact that media is suggesting ALK have got £15 million to buy a Belgian club. Personally, I don't buy that story either...

The evidence points in one direction basic business common sense points in another....!

I just wonder whether Mike Garlick had to bail them out....and I say that while not really believing he has even lent them the money.

To put £40 million eggs in one basket does not seem a sound investment strategy to me but what do I know.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:07 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:39 am
To put £40 million eggs in one basket does not seem a sound investment strategy to me but what do I know.
particularly when it represents so much of his total wealth - though he could be the huge fan that few suspect him to be

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:40 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:07 pm
particularly when it represents so much of his total wealth - though he could be the huge fan that few suspect him to be
Indeed but then we are back into the inherent contradictions in all this because the hypothesis that he is a super fan and had to lend them the money then begs the question of the competence of ALK, which then begs the question of why anyone in their right minds would want to invest £40 million in them given they agreed to a loan that gifted 3/4s of that loan to MSD in year 2 after relegation.

The words thank heaven for VK for he has surely saved the club from purgatory springs to mind when confronted with the logic (or lack thereof) of some of these things.

Of course, we hypothesise and there might be a very good reason for all this we just don't know about.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:52 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:40 pm
The words thank heaven for VK for he has surely saved the club from purgatory springs to mind when confronted with the logic (or lack thereof) of some of these things.
It is quite palpable in Alan Pace's face in this interview when asked about Vincent Kompany, just how much that decision has delivered

https://twitter.com/BBCLancsSport/statu ... 2335356928

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:45 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:52 pm
It is quite palpable in Alan Pace's face in this interview when asked about Vincent Kompany, just how much that decision has delivered

https://twitter.com/BBCLancsSport/statu ... 2335356928
Patagonia gilet ... Real finance bro accessory.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:46 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:40 pm
Indeed but then we are back into the inherent contradictions in all this because the hypothesis that he is a super fan and had to lend them the money then begs the question of the competence of ALK, which then begs the question of why anyone in their right minds would want to invest £40 million in them given they agreed to a loan that gifted 3/4s of that loan to MSD in year 2 after relegation.

The words thank heaven for VK for he has surely saved the club from purgatory springs to mind when confronted with the logic (or lack thereof) of some of these things.

Of course, we hypothesise and there might be a very good reason for all this we just don't know about.
Personally I think it's one of the wilder guesses on this thread and Macquarie seems a more realistic proposition but we shall see.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by aggi » Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:51 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:48 am
As I posted on the MMT last night Sheffield United are in the Macquarie loop now - very difficult to get out of that rinse and repeat cycle once you are in - as clubs like Leicester have found
Leeds were obviously one of the illustrative examples from a good few years back. Once you start borrowing from Peter to pay Paul it becomes very difficult to keep it going unless you seriously start to reign things in.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:59 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:52 pm
It is quite palpable in Alan Pace's face in this interview when asked about Vincent Kompany, just how much that decision has delivered

https://twitter.com/BBCLancsSport/statu ... 2335356928
Yes, I thought the bromance interview where AP talks about VK was good and quite open.

And Alan Pace came across very well albeit it did give Talksport hosts a few giggles

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:07 pm

aggi wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:46 pm
Personally I think it's one of the wilder guesses on this thread and Macquarie seems a more realistic proposition but we shall see.
I am working to try and get to the bottom of it all, but finding plenty of roadblocks

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:13 pm

so tomorrow is exactly 7 months to the day that BDO were appointed auditors to the ALK/VSL group - a definitive statement as far as the entities under Burnley FC Holdings Limited are concerned - the rest could have been earlier, but given the delays in reporting that seems unlikely

That appointment came:
14 days after the accounts for Kettering Capital Limited were scheduled to be published
and
40 days after the accounts for Calder Vale Holdings Limited were scheduled to be published

both dates had already been extended by 3 months, by way of successful application to use temporary Covid protocols

No explicit reason has ever been given for the change - and that includes direct refusal to answer specific requests/questions posed by shareholders who are members of BFCHL

Companies House having previously refused to offer details to BFCHL shareholders as to the progress of their actions in regard to the late filing from CVHL on grounds of data protection. This week issued a carbon copy response in regard to a similar query from a BFCHL shareholder re the late filing at KCL.

Both these late filings (as in the case of ALK Capital Limited and the now defunct Velocity Sport Partners Limited) are for first accounts. We could be as little as 23 days away from the due date for the 2nd set of accounts at CVHL and 49 days from the due date of the second set of accounts at KCL.

In some ways these 2nd sets of accounts could be more interest as we believe that ALK/VSL monies were used during that reporting period to meet stage payments, there may also be something in there about the new loan the club is carrying the service and repayment burden for - though that all may just be wishful thinking.

In the meantime questions have been asked of the lexicographers at the Oxford English Dictionary as to whether this statement issued on December 1st 2022 by an ALK Spokesperson uses 'immediacy' in a recognised way or if a new entry of definition for the term is now required

“This is an administrative error that has come to our attention and is being addressed and resolved with immediacy."

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:05 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:13 pm
so tomorrow is exactly 7 months to the day that BDO were appointed auditors to the ALK/VSL group - a definitive statement as far as the entities under Burnley FC Holdings Limited are concerned - the rest could have been earlier, but given the delays in reporting that seems unlikely

That appointment came:
14 days after the accounts for Kettering Capital Limited were scheduled to be published
and
40 days after the accounts for Calder Vale Holdings Limited were scheduled to be published

both dates had already been extended by 3 months, by way of successful application to use temporary Covid protocols

No explicit reason has ever been given for the change - and that includes direct refusal to answer specific requests/questions posed by shareholders who are members of BFCHL

Companies House having previously refused to offer details to BFCHL shareholders as to the progress of their actions in regard to the late filing from CVHL on grounds of data protection. This week issued a carbon copy response in regard to a similar query from a BFCHL shareholder re the late filing at KCL.

Both these late filings (as in the case of ALK Capital Limited and the now defunct Velocity Sport Partners Limited) are for first accounts. We could be as little as 23 days away from the due date for the 2nd set of accounts at CVHL and 49 days from the due date of the second set of accounts at KCL.

In some ways these 2nd sets of accounts could be more interest as we believe that ALK/VSL monies were used during that reporting period to meet stage payments, there may also be something in there about the new loan the club is carrying the service and repayment burden for - though that all may just be wishful thinking.

In the meantime questions have been asked of the lexicographers at the Oxford English Dictionary as to whether this statement issued on December 1st 2022 by an ALK Spokesperson uses 'immediacy' in a recognised way or if a new entry of definition for the term is now required

“This is an administrative error that has come to our attention and is being addressed and resolved with immediacy."
Sorry Chester....I know you are trying to do your best, but your posts are very agenda driven...and to us mere mortals make no sense at all.....I think the takeover was a good thing...but all the if, buts, and maybes don't help...I don't give a toss what section 3.1 of the accounts mean.....we are doing ok in the real world....if you look for negatives in anything you'll find one.....enjoy the present.
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by boyyanno » Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:11 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:05 pm
Sorry Chester....I know you are trying to do your best, but your posts are very agenda driven...and to us mere mortals make no sense at all.....I think the takeover was a good thing...but all the if, buts, and maybes don't help...I don't give a toss what section 3.1 of the accounts mean.....we are doing ok in the real world....if you look for negatives in anything you'll find one.....enjoy the present.
Chester's posts make a lot of sense to people on here, not just those with a background in finance/accounts. I'd say it shows your level of intelligence to freely admit you have no idea what you're talking about and then still comment on it anyway.

If you don't care then don't read the thread, why be a d*** about it?
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by daveisaclaret » Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:14 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:05 pm
Sorry Chester....I know you are trying to do your best, but your posts are very agenda driven...and to us mere mortals make no sense at all.....I think the takeover was a good thing...but all the if, buts, and maybes don't help...I don't give a toss what section 3.1 of the accounts mean.....we are doing ok in the real world....if you look for negatives in anything you'll find one.....enjoy the present.
Man who pretended to have died rather than admit being banned from the messageboard for trolling in troll post shock

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:15 pm

boyyanno wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:11 pm
Chester's posts make a lot of sense to people on here, not just those with a background in finance/accounts. I'd say it shows your level of intelligence to freely admit you have no idea what you're talking about and then still comment on it anyway.

If you don't care then don't read the thread, why be a d*** about it?
I haven't a clue who chester is, and I guess neither have you....I don't know what, if any qualifications he/she has but even themselves have admitted a lot is guess work....I prefer to go off what I can actually see

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:18 pm

daveisaclaret wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:14 pm
Man who pretended to have died rather than admit being banned from the messageboard for trolling in troll post shock
Read the post, then say sorry..........not once, I repeat..not once did I do what you're saying.....I said I knew him.... personally I have never been banned.....if you know different prove it

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by boyyanno » Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:22 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:15 pm
I haven't a clue who chester is, and I guess neither have you....I don't know what, if any qualifications he/she has but even themselves have admitted a lot is guess work....I prefer to go off what I can actually see
You've just admitted you have no idea about the subject so to "go off what you can actually see" wouldn't make a bit of difference would it?

You're just being a d***

Really sad and pathetic. Just stay off the thread.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:26 pm

boyyanno wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:22 pm
You've just admitted you have no idea about the subject so to "go off what you can actually see" wouldn't make a bit of difference would it?

You're just being a d***

Really sad and pathetic. Just stay off the thread.
Charming.....I tend to live my life based on facts and people's opinion who I actually know, and can judge how reliable they are....you obviously have a different outlook...good luck but no need whatsoever to be rude

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:35 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:05 pm
Sorry Chester....I know you are trying to do your best, but your posts are very agenda driven...and to us mere mortals make no sense at all.....I think the takeover was a good thing...but all the if, buts, and maybes don't help...I don't give a toss what section 3.1 of the accounts mean.....we are doing ok in the real world....if you look for negatives in anything you'll find one.....enjoy the present.
I would be interested to see if anyone can find where I have said the takeover was a bad thing in those terms, I do not recall doing so

I certainly have issues with specifics of the new owners approach, mainly over transparency, adherence to the rule of law and to a degree the level of money extracted from the club without growing revenues to cover such expense, There have been plenty of contradictions of statements of intention to actual action as well - things may evolve better over time but the issues arising from the first two years under their control cannot be masked by a successful season in the Championship - delightful as it was.

At best, in the real world (as you put it) the present holds some promise but little certainty, there is quite some mileage to go before anyone can realistically say the takeover as been a success or not.

What people repeatedly fail to recognise, is that any concerns expressed are from an understanding of what this club means to the vitality and wellbeing of the town, not as an attack on the ownership - I have often written of wishing then success because of the by product of their success is the club's.

I have also repeatedly said that the ownership group is one that appears to have the skillset required and to date have demonstrated a certain level of capability.

None of that means everything is good, better or even the same as before there are a number of areas were practices have gone backward, you and many others may not care at this moment, but there are some things that are happening in the background that are far from being right or what should be expected. The post you responded to being an example of one that is a blatant act of law breaking,

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by boyyanno » Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:46 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:26 pm
Charming.....I tend to live my life based on facts and people's opinion who I actually know, and can judge how reliable they are....you obviously have a different outlook...good luck but no need whatsoever to be rude
You get respect if you earn it pal, you're literally a d*** on here and I don't care if I get banned for saying so.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:47 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:35 pm
I would be interested to see if anyone can find where I have said the takeover was a bad thing in those terms, I do not recall doing so

I certainly have issues with specifics of the new owners approach, mainly over transparency, adherence to the rule of law and to a degree the level of money extracted from the club without growing revenues to cover such expense, There have been plenty of contradictions of statements of intention to actual action as well - things may evolve better over time but the issues arising from the first two years under their control cannot be masked by a successful season in the Championship - delightful as it was.

At best, in the real world (as you put it) the present holds some promise but little certainty, there is quite some mileage to go before anyone can realistically say the takeover as been a success or not.

What people repeatedly fail to recognise, is that any concerns expressed are from an understanding of what this club means to the vitality and wellbeing of the town, not as an attack on the ownership - I have often written of wishing then success because of the by product of their success is the club's.

I have also repeatedly said that the ownership group is one that appears to have the skillset required and to date have demonstrated a certain level of capability.

None of that means everything is good, better or even the same as before there are a number of areas were practices have gone backward, you and many others may not care at this moment, but there are some things that are happening in the background that are far from being right or what should be expected. The post you responded to being an example of one that is a blatant act of law breaking,
I don't want to be to critical, because some love your input....but there has to be a balance, and although you say you're not against the takeover, your post then suggests otherwise......I love the fact that posters like you can have a say.....and people are allowed to take what you say as fact..that's their decision which I fully accept is their right.....but...you could be wrong....but don't stop posting your views just accept, which I think you do, not everyone agrees, and it would be a sad world if we did.....

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:49 pm

boyyanno wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:22 pm
You've just admitted you have no idea about the subject so to "go off what you can actually see" wouldn't make a bit of difference would it?

You're just being a d***

Really sad and pathetic. Just stay off the thread.
Where did I say I had no idea about the subject?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:59 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:47 pm
I don't want to be to critical, because some love your input....but there has to be a balance, and although you say you're not against the takeover, your post then suggests otherwise......I love the fact that posters like you can have a say.....and people are allowed to take what you say as fact..that's their decision which I fully accept is their right.....but...you could be wrong....but don't stop posting your views just accept, which I think you do, not everyone agrees, and it would be a sad world if we did.....
One of the reasons I post my understandings - and I have been very open about this - is so that they can be challenged and indeed corrected where necessary/appropriate - I include my reasoning in such posts to give everyone fair view of how I reached the understanding including wherever possible supporting evidence for such reasoning.

this thread bears witness to my being corrected on a number of occasions, along with my acceptance of it and consequent use of revised understanding - I have even done it to myself and declared it.

I accept that not everyone agrees with me, I even welcome it when the counter-argument is presented with reasoning and supporting evidence - for I think that helps us all to have a broader and deeper understanding of the topic under discussion as well as breeding empathy and respect for one another.

I suspect it is this approach, that has given me a level of credibility to some, though not all
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by DCWat » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:04 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:49 pm
Where did I say I had no idea about the subject?
“ and to us mere mortals make no sense at all” hardly suggests an informed understanding of the subject matter.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by DCWat » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:08 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:59 pm
One of the reasons I post my understandings - and I have been very open about this - is so that they can be challenged and indeed corrected where necessary/appropriate - I include my reasoning in such posts to give everyone fair view of how I reached the understanding including wherever possible supporting evidence for such reasoning.

this thread bears witness to my being corrected on a number of occasions, along with my acceptance of it and consequent use of revised understanding - I have even done it to myself and declared it.

I accept that not everyone agrees with me, I even welcome it when the counter-argument is presented with reasoning and supporting evidence - for I think that helps us all to have a broader and deeper understanding of the topic under discussion as well as breeding empathy and respect for one another.

I suspect it is this approach, that has given me a level of credibility to some, though not all
I’ve seen you explaining along similar lines, previously. Credit where it’s due here, Chester, I don’t think I’d have been so reasonable.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:15 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:59 pm
One of the reasons I post my understandings - and I have been very open about this - is so that they can be challenged and indeed corrected where necessary/appropriate - I include my reasoning in such posts to give everyone fair view of how I reached the understanding including wherever possible supporting evidence for such reasoning.

this thread bears witness to my being corrected on a number of occasions, along with my acceptance of it and consequent use of revised understanding - I have even done it to myself and declared it.

I accept that not everyone agrees with me, I even welcome it when the counter-argument is presented with reasoning and supporting evidence - for I think that helps us all to have a broader and deeper understanding of the topic under discussion as well as breeding empathy and respect for one another.

I suspect it is this approach, that has given me a level of credibility to some, though not all
Exactly....I do accept a level of credibility, I don't think I've ever said otherwise.....but your views should be open to challenge....and to be really credible those accepting your views should know your credentials for giving your opinions......like I say, don't stop, but some posters need to realise that....god forbide you can be questioned, which I secretly think you enjoy

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:16 pm

DCWat wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:04 pm
“ and to us mere mortals make no sense at all” hardly suggests an informed understanding of the subject matter.
???

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:22 pm

DCWat wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:08 pm
I’ve seen you explaining along similar lines, previously. Credit where it’s due here, Chester, I don’t think I’d have been so reasonable.
I also do not get involved in bickering - it is a good self imposed rule on here and wider social media. I am happy to disagree when appropriate but strive not to be disrespectful. Occasionally I will disengage from a poster, if attempts at reason fail,

Nori1958, has always been willing to hear me out and if necessary agree to disagree and I don't ever recall any nastiness. So in that regard I don't have any issue Nori1958. I think it is a shame my posts are regarded as being negative, even unbalanced, but given my posts are about specific points I can understand why such a view may be taken from a weight of numbers perspective, though I still disagree with the conclusion Nori1958 draws
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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Carwin261 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:27 pm

On balance ,unless something on the financial side goes tits up ,I think we should enjoy our days in the sun ,ignorance is probably bliss ,although Chester posts some excellent analysis of the present situation,I don’t think we can do anything about it ,let’s crack on as Stan would say ,and give The Premier Leagues Billy Big ******** something to whinge about ,if we go to the wall then so be it ,we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it ,UTC

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by boyyanno » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:32 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:15 pm
Exactly....I do accept a level of credibility, I don't think I've ever said otherwise.....but your views should be open to challenge....and to be really credible those accepting your views should know your credentials for giving your opinions......like I say, don't stop, but some posters need to realise that....god forbide you can be questioned, which I secretly think you enjoy
You're just completely back tracking because you've been outed as an idiot.

There's no poster on here that takes Chester's view as gospel and your comment about seeing credentials is just another load of crap. Opinions are formed by taking in to account all sorts of things, such as someone else's viewpoint, by gathering knowledge, having "experience" and then ultimately making your own decision based on what you have discovered. There is a bias in nearly everything, the clubs accounts are factual, but they also have a bias. A base life skill is being able to look at information and consider any bias it may have and subsequently take it into account. If and where Chester does make a connection, he at least shows his working out so people can understand his way of thinking, wether they like, agree, disagree or otherwise. I'd have no problem with you or anyone disagreeing with the facts and information on here, but that's not what you did is it? Normal people can appreciate the time and work that goes in to a lot of posters (not just Chester) who contribute to this thread and continue to share any knowledge, facts or information that exists. Wether they agree or not I wouldn't start winging about how I don't care and don't know eff all about it.

This is your original post btw:
Sorry Chester....I know you are trying to do your best, but your posts are very agenda driven...and to us mere mortals make no sense at all.....I think the takeover was a good thing...but all the if, buts, and maybes don't help...I don't give a toss what section 3.1 of the accounts mean.....we are doing ok in the real world....if you look for negatives in anything you'll find one.....enjoy the present.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:32 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:22 pm
I also do not get involved in bickering - it is a good self imposed rule on here and wider social media. I am happy to disagree when appropriate but strive not to be disrespectful. Occasionally I will disengage from a poster, if attempts at reason fail,

Nori1958, has always been willing to hear me out and if necessary agree to disagree and I don't ever recall any nastiness. So in that regard I don't have any issue Nori1958. I think it is a shame my posts are regarded as being negative, even unbalanced, but given my posts are about specific points I can understand why such a view may be taken from a weight of numbers perspective, though I still disagree with the conclusion Nori1958 draws
The one thing to agree on, is I'm never nasty.

My only real point is so many people hanging on the word of an unknown poster, without questioning it......they might be 100 percent right...or 100 percent wrong...just question things, someone like Chester will happily explain....but might not tell you his credentials for doing so :lol:

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:32 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:15 pm
Exactly....I do accept a level of credibility, I don't think I've ever said otherwise.....but your views should be open to challenge....and to be really credible those accepting your views should know your credentials for giving your opinions......like I say, don't stop, but some posters need to realise that....god forbide you can be questioned, which I secretly think you enjoy
I have made it clear many times that I not an accountant or legal expert - much of what I have learned has been through research and the generosity of those who have such qualification and skills on this very board.

I have a level of education (MSC, BSC Hons 1st Class) that has given me the skills for learning, reasoning and research

As I say, I do enjoy my understandings (not views, that would entail certainty and when not being factual I am explicit about it) being challenged particularly in the same manner as I present mine - with reason and supporting detail

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:36 pm

boyyanno wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:32 pm
You're just completely back tracking because you've been outed as an idiot.

There's no poster on here that takes Chester's view as gospel and your comment about seeing credentials is just another load of crap. Opinions are formed by taking in to account all sorts of things, such as someone else's viewpoint, by gathering knowledge, having "experience" and then ultimately making your own decision based on what you have discovered. There is a bias in nearly everything, the clubs accounts are factual, but they also have a bias. A base life skill is being able to look at information and consider any bias it may have and subsequently take it into account. If and where Chester does make a connection, he at least shows his working out so people can understand his way of thinking, wether they like, agree, disagree or otherwise. I'd have no problem with you or anyone disagreeing with the facts and information on here, but that's not what you did is it? Normal people can appreciate the time and work that goes in to a lot of posters (not just Chester) who contribute to this thread and continue to share any knowledge, facts or information that exists. Wether they agree or not I wouldn't start winging about how I don't care and don't know eff all about it.

This is your original post btw:
Sorry Chester....I know you are trying to do your best, but your posts are very agenda driven...and to us mere mortals make no sense at all.....I think the takeover was a good thing...but all the if, buts, and maybes don't help...I don't give a toss what section 3.1 of the accounts mean.....we are doing ok in the real world....if you look for negatives in anything you'll find one.....enjoy the present.
Taking away the insults.....I agree lots of posters, far more informed than me or you......don't agree with Chester....he's more negative than others, which is what I base my opinions on....feel free to disagree but please don't be rude

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:48 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:36 pm
Taking away the insults.....I agree lots of posters, far more informed than me or you......don't agree with Chester....he's more negative than others, which is what I base my opinions on....feel free to disagree but please don't be rude
I an intrigued by what it is that you consider negative - my presentation of understandings and facts is clear - certainly in today's post there was a level of sarcasm, and there has been a number of times in my posts on that subject - but given the official line and the certainty of the time passed since such pronouncements were made by the owners representative there is little option for anything else as they seek to present an 'all is good' picture to the world.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by NewClaret » Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:53 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:32 pm
I have made it clear many times that I not an accountant or legal expert - much of what I have learned has been through research and the generosity of those who have such qualification and skills on this very board.
For someone without a background in accounting or law you do a miraculous job of understanding the intricacies of the very complex - and explaining your understanding of them to people on here like me, who either have only a passing interest in the topic or no grasp of the subject matter at all. In my case, often several times! I for one appreciate that.

FWIW, I don’t assume you are right. In fact, my starting point is that you’re wrong :lol: Not deliberately I should qualify, just because I think the opaqueness means that you’re always joining dots and I think there’s a high chance you join the wrong ones with so many unknowns. Although you usually convince me you were right in the end :D

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:52 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:48 pm
I an intrigued by what it is that you consider negative - my presentation of understandings and facts is clear - certainly in today's post there was a level of sarcasm, and there has been a number of times in my posts on that subject - but given the official line and the certainty of the time passed since such pronouncements were made by the owners representative there is little option for anything else as they seek to present an 'all is good' picture to the world.
I think, in my opinion, you are against the takeover, I might be wrong

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:19 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:52 pm
I think, in my opinion, you are against the takeover, I might be wrong
I am not sure I have held an opinion on the takeover per se or expressed one, Garlick appeared to want out and he had limited options after years of trying - it is what it is

I have expressed a dislike for leveraged buyouts of a community asset, but apart from specific points on specific issues I have never called out the owners on the leveraging just on the subsequent extraction to meet the stage payments, which was not the original plan, a plan they failed to execute.

I don't think they have yet proved they will be good for the clubs fortunes - that will take time to reach a considered opinion on, income wise the next season will be a pivotal one for them, they simply must do better on the commercial income side.

As I said, there is recent promise but a long way to go before I will hold an overall considered judgement/opinion

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by 123EasyasBFC » Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:27 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:32 pm
The one thing to agree on, is I'm never nasty.

My only real point is so many people hanging on the word of an unknown poster, without questioning it......they might be 100 percent right...or 100 percent wrong...just question things, someone like Chester will happily explain....but might not tell you his credentials for doing so :lol:
It’s hardly Chester Perrys fault of people decide to hang on his every word, I don’t know a great deal about the finances, but reading Chester’s posts and other peoples post who seem to have some knowledge is better to get some kind of understanding to the workings of the club

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:54 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:19 pm
I am not sure I have held an opinion on the takeover per se or expressed one, Garlick appeared to want out and he had limited options after years of trying - it is what it is

I have expressed a dislike for leveraged buyouts of a community asset, but apart from specific points on specific issues I have never called out the owners on the leveraging just on the subsequent extraction to meet the stage payments, which was not the original plan, a plan they failed to execute.

I don't think they have yet proved they will be good for the clubs fortunes - that will take time to reach a considered opinion on, income wise the next season will be a pivotal one for them, they simply must do better on the commercial income side.

As I said, there is recent promise but a long way to go before I will hold an overall considered judgement/opinion
Why edit my post ?

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Nori1958 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:57 pm

123EasyasBFC wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:27 pm
It’s hardly Chester Perrys fault of people decide to hang on his every word, I don’t know a great deal about the finances, but reading Chester’s posts and other peoples post who seem to have some knowledge is better to get some kind of understanding to the workings of the club
I don't have a problem with the reading his posts., But read others that disagree with him as well

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:19 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:54 pm
Why edit my post ?
I didn't as can plainly be seen

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:44 pm

Nori1958 wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:57 pm
I don't have a problem with the reading his posts., But read others that disagree with him as well
I think if you came on here and stated that you don't think CP is fairly representing the situation and made some points as to why then no one would bother.

I get you maybe frustrated that you don't know enough about finances to justify your opinion but that's not the fault of anyone on here. It's also a good reason to hold your counsel.

In the main, people on here will be negative about anyone taking £114 million out of the club's accounts. Paul W' offers an opposite viewpoint and it's there for all to read but it's a finance thread and ultimately the facts are the facts there is not much anyone can do.

The fact that we have had a brilliant season is for other threads...

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Big Vinny K » Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:41 am

I think most of the posters with financial knowledge on this board have concerns over the takeover.
Paul W and his optimistic outlook is an exception amongst these posters. But he does post in a respectful and knowledgeable way and someone I personally find easy to debate with irrespective of whether I agree with everything he says.

Bit of a generalisation but those without financial knowledge who post on threads like this tend to side with Paul W rather than the posters who raise concerns.

And my own view that a big reason why this happens is that they conflate the brilliant season we have had on the pitch with the financial situation / nature of the takeover. Whilst this might be a natural instinct it doesn’t really make any sense when some of these same posters admit they do not understand the intricacies of the takeover or current financial structure of the club.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Jakubclaret » Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:44 am

It's at its highest advantage I think when you listen to people completely independent with no bias unlike people on this forum, try to find out what they think about the takeover, it's the only way you'll ever really learn what it's all about when people are talking honest with no axes to grind or agenda's.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by ClaretPete001 » Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:28 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:44 am
It's at its highest advantage I think when you listen to people completely independent with no bias unlike people on this forum, try to find out what they think about the takeover, it's the only way you'll ever really learn what it's all about when people are talking honest with no axes to grind or agenda's.
It's insidious to try and smear people on here as lacking honesty and being biased.

The problem you have is that there is no such thing as an unbiased opinion and while some may have NO axe to grind they are unlikely to be as well informed as people on here.

Better to have a critical opinion, engage and seek as many views as possible because even if there were such a thing as an unbiased opinion it is lost on those WHO want to hear what they want to hear.

An unbiased opinion also needs an unbiased listener... and there aren't any of those in the world either.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Burnley1989 » Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:46 am

:lol: :roll:

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Jakubclaret » Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:20 pm

ClaretPete001 wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:28 am
It's insidious to try and smear people on here as lacking honesty and being biased.

The problem you have is that there is no such thing as an unbiased opinion and while some may have NO axe to grind they are unlikely to be as well informed as people on here.

Better to have a critical opinion, engage and seek as many views as possible because even if there were such a thing as an unbiased opinion it is lost on those WHO want to hear what they want to hear.

An unbiased opinion also needs an unbiased listener... and there aren't any of those in the world either.
There's plenty of people non biased who are more informed than people on here who just plainly see the facts as they see them, sports reporters &: people who engage on a professional basis reporting about the financial situations at clubs throughout the pyramid, biased or non biased people who wish to seek interest can then make their own minds up, if your are mind is already made up prior & stubbornly resistant to change or learning new information as it comes to light then there's no hope on here or anywhere.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by elwaclaret » Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:52 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:20 pm
There's plenty of people non biased who are more informed than people on here who just plainly see the facts as they see them, sports reporters &: people who engage on a professional basis reporting about the financial situations at clubs throughout the pyramid, biased or non biased people who wish to seek interest can then make their own minds up, if your are mind is already made up prior & stubbornly resistant to change or learning new information as it comes to light then there's no hope on here or anywhere.
I think it is very worthwhile that people are keeping checks on the goings on behind the curtain.
However as it is not my field I rarely comment. I suspect my worries have been tempered by how well our owners seem to be going about their business, and tempered by the clowns that very nearly took over in our past… White, Shackleton etc. spring to mind (but there are others) who remind me constantly the kind of takeover we could have had.
The club needed refreshing desperately and the new board seem to be going about building infrastructure in a steady and sustainable manner and generally seem a different league in terms of ideas how to make the club competitive. I am happy to enjoy the ride (there is not much that can be done about it anyway) and wish the board Godspeed in achieving their transformation… even when Individual changes aren’t really to my personal taste. I still see us becoming the Green Bay Packers of British football, and it is a model that always made sense to me for Burnley Football Club and by association Burnley town.

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Re: ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

Post by Jakubclaret » Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:10 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:52 pm
I think it is very worthwhile that people are keeping checks on the goings on behind the curtain.
However as it is not my field I rarely comment. I suspect my worries have been tempered by how well our owners seem to be going about their business, and tempered by the clowns that very nearly took over in our past… White, Shackleton etc. spring to mind (but there are others) who remind me constantly the kind of takeover we could have had.
The club needed refreshing desperately and the new board seem to be going about building infrastructure in a steady and sustainable manner and generally seem a different league in terms of ideas how to make the club competitive. I am happy to enjoy the ride (there is not much that can be done about it anyway) and wish the board Godspeed in achieving their transformation… even when Individual changes aren’t really to my personal taste. I still see us becoming the Green Bay Packers of British football, and it is a model that always made sense to me for Burnley Football Club and by association Burnley town.
It's nonsensical to suggest that non biased people aren't as informed as some of us especially the 1s who make a living day in & day out making it their business to know such information, & equally it's nonsensical to suggest that there aren't non biased people receiving & taking that said information onboard, I prefer listening & reading information about the club from non burnley sources but I'm probably biased myself it doesn't mean the information I'm receiving is biased. You get plain warts & all honesty from outside not on here.

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