Football Leadership Diversity Code
Football Leadership Diversity Code
I see that Burnley (and all the clubs in the Premier League except Southampton who believe that they already exceed it) have signed up to this.
Not actually much out there about what it is other than this https://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefacom- ... final.ashx
Mainly appears to be regarding recruitment:
By signing up to the code, we pledge to create an EDI plan which delivers the principles of the code. We state our ambition to meet the following targets, recognising that different clubs are on different parts of their journeys. Where necessary, we can use the 2020/21 season to evaluate our data and create our EDI plan - publishing it ahead of the 2021/22 season. We will apply hiring targets for coaches, leadership positions and the recruitment principles. If in any one year we are unable to achieve any of the targets below, we will explain why as part of our EDI plan and annual reporting.
SENIOR LEADERSHIP & TEAM OPERATIONS TARGETS
• 15% of our new hires will be Black, Asian or of Mixed-Heritage (or a target set by the club based on local demographics)
• 30% of our new hires will be female
COACHING- MEN’S CLUBS TARGETS
• 25% of our new hires will be Black, Asian or of Mixed-Heritage
• 10% of our new senior coaching hires will be Black, Asian or of Mixed-Heritage
COACHING- WOMEN’S CLUBS TARGETS
• 50% of our new hires will be female
• 15% of our new hires will be Black, Asian or of Mixed-Heritage
RECRUITMENT
• Shortlists for interview will have at least one male and one female Black, Asian or of Mixed Heritage candidate (if applicants meeting the job specifications apply)
Not actually much out there about what it is other than this https://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefacom- ... final.ashx
Mainly appears to be regarding recruitment:
By signing up to the code, we pledge to create an EDI plan which delivers the principles of the code. We state our ambition to meet the following targets, recognising that different clubs are on different parts of their journeys. Where necessary, we can use the 2020/21 season to evaluate our data and create our EDI plan - publishing it ahead of the 2021/22 season. We will apply hiring targets for coaches, leadership positions and the recruitment principles. If in any one year we are unable to achieve any of the targets below, we will explain why as part of our EDI plan and annual reporting.
SENIOR LEADERSHIP & TEAM OPERATIONS TARGETS
• 15% of our new hires will be Black, Asian or of Mixed-Heritage (or a target set by the club based on local demographics)
• 30% of our new hires will be female
COACHING- MEN’S CLUBS TARGETS
• 25% of our new hires will be Black, Asian or of Mixed-Heritage
• 10% of our new senior coaching hires will be Black, Asian or of Mixed-Heritage
COACHING- WOMEN’S CLUBS TARGETS
• 50% of our new hires will be female
• 15% of our new hires will be Black, Asian or of Mixed-Heritage
RECRUITMENT
• Shortlists for interview will have at least one male and one female Black, Asian or of Mixed Heritage candidate (if applicants meeting the job specifications apply)
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
It will be interesting to see how club will meet the boardroom requirementsaggi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:43 pmI see that Burnley (and all the clubs in the Premier League except Southampton who believe that they already exceed it) have signed up to this.
Not actually much out there about what it is other than this https://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefacom- ... final.ashx
Mainly appears to be regarding recruitment:
By signing up to the code, we pledge to create an EDI plan which delivers the principles of the code. We state our ambition to meet the following targets, recognising that different clubs are on different parts of their journeys. Where necessary, we can use the 2020/21 season to evaluate our data and create our EDI plan - publishing it ahead of the 2021/22 season. We will apply hiring targets for coaches, leadership positions and the recruitment principles. If in any one year we are unable to achieve any of the targets below, we will explain why as part of our EDI plan and annual reporting.
SENIOR LEADERSHIP & TEAM OPERATIONS TARGETS
• 15% of our new hires will be Black, Asian or of Mixed-Heritage (or a target set by the club based on local demographics)
• 30% of our new hires will be female
COACHING- MEN’S CLUBS TARGETS
• 25% of our new hires will be Black, Asian or of Mixed-Heritage
• 10% of our new senior coaching hires will be Black, Asian or of Mixed-Heritage
COACHING- WOMEN’S CLUBS TARGETS
• 50% of our new hires will be female
• 15% of our new hires will be Black, Asian or of Mixed-Heritage
RECRUITMENT
• Shortlists for interview will have at least one male and one female Black, Asian or of Mixed Heritage candidate (if applicants meeting the job specifications apply)
more interesting is that over a month back the FA board were voted down by their own council when they tried to make themselves more diverse
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
Quotas. A sure fire way to dumb anything down.
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
Can't wait to see what all our racists have to say about this.
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
Cant wait to see somebody try to shut down open debate on this interesting/controversial move by crying "racist". Oh- hold on.
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
What is there to debate?
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
Ashley and Jordan... theres only 2 of them, is that enough of "Diversity" to go round all the clubs
Maybe the whole group
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
What are the boardroom requirements?Chester Perry wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:11 pmIt will be interesting to see how club will meet the boardroom requirements
more interesting is that over a month back the FA board were voted down by their own council when they tried to make themselves more diverse
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
When the Diversity code was talked about over the summer there was a desire to have quotas for the boardrooms, something openly discussed by the Sports Minister - this was about the same time as restart and BLM was extremely high profile - sounds like it has not been included, which I should not be surprised about really.
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
'our ambition to meet the following targets'
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
What a complete waste of time! Of all the things that are a major worry for the football world during the pandemic and they waste time on a senseless thing like this
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
The worlds gone mad, whatever happened to the best person for the job irrespective of race, creed or colour.
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
and just how often have you seen that actually happen? I know I haven't seen it too oftenclaret3561 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:47 pmThe worlds gone mad, whatever happened to the best person for the job irrespective of race, creed or colour.
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
I know but got to be better than putting someone in a position simply because of race creed or colour, its got to be a recipe for failure.
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
Worse, in my opinion, for the successful applicant to have any doubt that they were appointed for any other reason than they were the best candidate.
Unhelpful 'rules' for both sides, really.
Unhelpful 'rules' for both sides, really.
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
If that had been happening then this probably wouldn't have been implemented.claret3561 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:47 pmThe worlds gone mad, whatever happened to the best person for the job irrespective of race, creed or colour.
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
But there must be middle road your going from getting a job based on your suitability to gettind one based on your ethnicity or gender that just cant be right for employer or employee.
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
You've seen the people who currently run English football, yes? Witnessed their calibre? These aren't the best people for the job by any objective measure. These aren't outright quotas, they're targets (subtle distinction, I know, but an important one), but given some folks, in their righteous indignation, want to believe in their mind that these are in fact quotas, I'll meet folks where they are at and argue as though quotas have been proposed.claret3561 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:56 pmI know but got to be better than putting someone in a position simply because of race creed or colour, its got to be a recipe for failure.
Implicit in the argument that diversity quotas 'dumb down' an industry is the assumption that black/Asian/(insert underrepresented minority) people are incapable...and dumb. I mean, there's your problem right there; it's for all to see. The theory behind diversity quotas is to normalise seeing black faces (or other minorities) in positions within industry where deep rooted prejudices limit the career prospects of minorities who ought to have the same right to work and participate in an industry as the sometimes useless dinosaurs who typically hold them back; prejudices such as, oh, I don't know, the notion that black people are dumb and white people are naturally more qualified for any job. Diversity quotas are imperfect, but they're a way to smash prejudices, and that brings long term benefits, including minorities 'getting the job' if they're the best qualified person for the job. Again, for argument's sake I'll meet you where you're at in working on the (false) assumption that 'quotas = poorer calibre candidates': Chemotherapy is punishing, right?...but it cures a disease in the end. Even from the stupidly uncharitable standpoint that diversity quotas are damaging to industry, this is the essence of a quota - to shatter prejudices and overcome blindspots, thus strengthening the industry in the long term by ensuring highly qualified candidates are not overlooked on the grounds of race, etc. The idea is that prejudices are eventually eradicated to a sufficiently workable degree and quotas themselves become absolutely redundant.
Sorry to bring current politics into this conversation, but the argument against quotas (and again, no quotas are being suggested here) has always felt like the current Rashford free school meals debate: opposition to the means by which an objective is realised is a tacit way of opposing the objective. You can erect innumerable hurdles and make innumerable objections to the means, but the ultimate purpose of those hurdles is to oppose the ends, by sitting back and doing nothing. Some people are opposed to diversity quotas because they believe black people are incapable of contributing to an industry with the same degree of competence as a white person. According to this argument, it's easy to see how diversity quotas are both a product of ignorance and prejudice, and a means to overcome it.
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
If they introduce a similar quota on the playing staff - 90% of our senior players will be of white British heritage - that could create problems for some of the southern clubs, especially. But then, I suppose they will continue to pick players purely on merit.
There are arguments both ways, of course. But the biggest argument against is that you risk getting people who aren't up to the job simply because they tick a box. Kitty Usher as MP for Burnley was an example - her only qualification for the job, so far as I could see, was that she was a woman. That was certainly her prime qualification.
Assuming there are black people who deserve jobs and because of racism (deliberate or not) are being kept out of work, then there should be aconcerted effort to see they get jobs - but I think it needs to be a sharper instrument than this. There is a danger that someone incompetent gets a job simply because they have dark skin or are female, and that sets the whole thing back further as people think "we appointed a [minority person] last time and look how that worked out".
There are arguments both ways, of course. But the biggest argument against is that you risk getting people who aren't up to the job simply because they tick a box. Kitty Usher as MP for Burnley was an example - her only qualification for the job, so far as I could see, was that she was a woman. That was certainly her prime qualification.
Assuming there are black people who deserve jobs and because of racism (deliberate or not) are being kept out of work, then there should be aconcerted effort to see they get jobs - but I think it needs to be a sharper instrument than this. There is a danger that someone incompetent gets a job simply because they have dark skin or are female, and that sets the whole thing back further as people think "we appointed a [minority person] last time and look how that worked out".
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
I know you say that with tongue in cheek, but obviously race isn't an obstacle to a playing career.
Just to comment after the edit, I can agree with some of that, and I was just about to say that this approach is used as a blunt force instrument, which you alluded to above, but if there were any sharper instruments I'd be all ears. I think this is why they are imperfect, you get the odd box-ticked moron, but the objective is of a much, much bigger scope, and the positives far outweigh the downsides. These arguments against quotas/targets are often made without fully internalising that prejudices do currently limit the prospects of minorities and as such result in poorer qualified people getting the job, which rather demonstrated the need for an instrument of some sort, sharp or blunt.dsr wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:01 pmThere are arguments both ways, of course. But the biggest argument against is that you risk getting people who aren't up to the job simply because they tick a box. Kitty Usher as MP for Burnley was an example - her only qualification for the job, so far as I could see, was that she was a woman. That was certainly her prime qualification.
Assuming there are black people who deserve jobs and because of racism (deliberate or not) are being kept out of work, then there should be aconcerted effort to see they get jobs - but I think it needs to be a sharper instrument than this. There is a danger that someone incompetent gets a job simply because they have dark skin or are female, and that sets the whole thing back further as people think "we appointed a [minority person] last time and look how that worked out".
Last edited by Spiral on Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
Well you'd hope so but a quick look at things like the FA board makes you wonder whether the old system was working that well (although obviously the FA board isn't included in this initiative and they aren't too keen on having anything similar applied). In an ideal world everyone would be recruited on merit but I'm not convinced we've hit that stage yet.claret3561 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:35 pmBut there must be middle road your going from getting a job based on your suitability to getting one based on your ethnicity or gender that just cant be right for employer or employee.
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
as I stated earlier the FA board said they did try to get the the Diversity Codes creator Paul Elliot appointed to their board but were blocked by the FA Council - Greg Clarke (who has since been shown to have a questionable grasp on the truth re Project Big Picture) put the blame squarely at the door of the Premier League and the EFLaggi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:11 pmWell you'd hope so but a quick look at things like the FA board makes you wonder whether the old system was working that well (although obviously the FA board isn't included in this initiative and they aren't too keen on having anything similar applied). In an ideal world everyone would be recruited on merit but I'm not convinced we've hit that stage yet.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... ining.html
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
Choosing people for a job based on their skin colour to the exclusion of people with a different skin colour.
RACISM.
In this case , anti white racism.
It used to be about being "colour blind" .
It used to be about "integration" and "assimilation"
Now it's about discriminating against white people , replacing them, while using the culturally Marxist and politically correct term "diversity"
Make no mistake. This is pure, unadulterated anti white, racist discrimination.
RACISM.
In this case , anti white racism.
It used to be about being "colour blind" .
It used to be about "integration" and "assimilation"
Now it's about discriminating against white people , replacing them, while using the culturally Marxist and politically correct term "diversity"
Make no mistake. This is pure, unadulterated anti white, racist discrimination.
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
Mentions of:RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:19 pmChoosing people for a jo *fart noises, screeching, trumpets*
Replacement? Check.
Cultural Marxism? Check.
Reverse racism? Check.
If you don't want people to think you're a white-nationalist you might want to stop talking like one.
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
You're mistaking me for someone else.
Someone who actually cares what you think
(No attempt whatsoever to counter my point that "Choosing people for a job based on their skin colour to the exclusion of people with a different skin colour." Is the very definition of racist discrimination. None)
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
Oh that went out of the window a long time ago. What's rarely mentioned is prejudice among white people. Theres a hell of a lot of that unfortunately. But of course thats firmly on the backburner which isn't litclaret3561 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:47 pmThe worlds gone mad, whatever happened to the best person for the job irrespective of race, creed or colour.
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
claret3561 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:47 pmThe worlds gone mad, whatever happened to the best person for the job irrespective of race, creed or colour.
I wonder how many black people wish for this?
A lot
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:19 pmChoosing people for a job based on their skin colour to the exclusion of people with a different skin colour.
RACISM.
In this case , anti white racism.
It used to be about being "colour blind" .
It used to be about "integration" and "assimilation"
Now it's about discriminating against white people , replacing them, while using the culturally Marxist and politically correct term "diversity"
Make no mistake. This is pure, unadulterated anti white, racist discrimination.
How ever will we cope with this oppression.
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
Cheers, I'd missed some of that story. Although as you say it's a little hard to know who to believe recently. Obviously the original point is still relevant.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:19 pmas I stated earlier the FA board said they did try to get the the Diversity Codes creator Paul Elliot appointed to their board but were blocked by the FA Council - Greg Clarke (who has since been shown to have a questionable grasp on the truth re Project Big Picture) put the blame squarely at the door of the Premier League and the EFL
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sport ... ining.html
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
It's a good job that isn't what's being proposed then.RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:57 pmChoosing to exclude an individual potential applicant for a job , because of the ethnic group they are part of isn't "oppression", it's the very definition of racist discrimination.
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
How every will white people cope with this blatant racism?RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:57 pmChoosing to exclude an individual potential applicant for a job , because of the ethnic group they are part of isn't "oppression", it's the very definition of racist discrimination.
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
The right "im fed up of all these leftie snowflakes"RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:05 pmThe Left - " We oppose all forms of abhorrent racism "
(Caveat- unless its anti white racism!)
(caveat- its ok to be a moaning snowflake when it suits )
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
You're developing a bit a a pattern. You previously mistook "oppression" for anti white racist discrimination.
Now you're misconstrueding "moaning" for simply pointing out anti white discrimination.
THE LEFT -
100% behind "Diversity"
100% against diversity of opinion.
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
You have developed a pattern.RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:30 pmYou're developing a bit a a pattern. You previously mistook "oppression" for anti white racist discrimination.
Now you're misconstrueding "moaning" for simply pointing out anti white discrimination.
THE LEFT -
100% behind "Diversity"
100% against diversity of opinion.
Moaning all the time about the left. I get it when people like Ben Shapiro do it. That's how he makes his living. But you invest so much time into these issues im honestly not sure what you get out of it.
Other than winding people up, which I commend
Last edited by Inchy on Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
ya'all don't forget about the inclusion part of this double act while you're at it
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
Don't indulge trolls, then. It's convenient for people to attack monolithic caricatures. It might be tempting at times to argue against the notion of monolithic caricatures directly, but it's futile when responding to trolls. It's also tempting to do the same as the trolls but with the inverse. But it's all predicated on bull$hit, so it's of no value. Best not to talk in terms of 'the left' and 'the right' because that feeds into the aims of trolls, who only care for stripping debate of all nuance, misrepresenting other people's arguments, and inciting petty spats. I try to ignore them into obscurity, never engaging directly and usually responding to meet their level of absurdity whenever it takes my fancy. They eventually bugger off if everyone ignores them. For the record, there's only one posting on this thread. I think we all know who.Inchy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:34 pmYou have developed a pattern. A pattern of being a snowflake.
Moaning all the time about the left. I get it when people like Ben Shapiro do it. That's how he makes his living. But you invest so much time into these issues im honestly not sure what you get out of it.
Other than winding people up, which I commend
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
Your criteria of a Troll is what? More than 4 comments?Spiral wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:52 pmDon't indulge trolls, then. It's convenient for people to attack monolithic caricatures. It might be tempting at times to argue against the notion of monolithic caricatures directly, but it's futile when responding to trolls. It's also tempting to do the same as the trolls but with the inverse. But it's all predicated on bull$hit, so it's of no value. Best not to talk in terms of 'the left' and 'the right' because that feeds into the aims of trolls, who only care for stripping debate of all nuance, misrepresenting other people's arguments, and inciting petty spats. I try to ignore them into obscurity, never engaging directly and usually responding to meet their level of absurdity whenever it takes my fancy. They eventually bugger off if everyone ignores them. For the record, there's only one posting on this thread. I think we all know who.
You mention.nuance but todays cancel culture is exactly the opposite of nuanced.
Something else I have met many many people and nationalities and met very few who are not prejudiced (racist) in some way against someone. The subject is much wider than that on here. Of course this is here and now and has to be addressed.
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
For the benefit of doubt, I wasn't referring to you, and it's not an accusation I just throw around. I disagree with loads of people on here and some of the posts on this thread, but I wouldn't dream of accusing those people of trolling. But let's talk about that. You've mentioned cancel culture. I have no clue why you've brought it up. I've not posted a stance on it, and neither have I suggested racism on your part. This is what I mean when I talk about how unproductive it is to group swathes of people with vaguely similar ideas into these monolithic blocs based on the idea in your (one's) mind of who they are and what they stand for. It makes for an easy target to attack, but you do yourself a disservice by not making a more intelligent analysis. We're now in the position of (being on the cusp of) discussing twitter mobs on a thread about football governance. Would I be wrong to think you've lumped me in with 'them', i.e. people you disagree with, and in doing that presumed my stance on cancel culture? I'm not at all accusing you of trolling, Stayingup, but do you see how your line of argument, similar to the techniques used by trolls, ends up with people screaming at each other about nothing? I made a short post further up explaining my take on these initiatives if you're interested. I won't say any more because I'd probably be repeating myself!Stayingup wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:01 pmYour criteria of a Troll is what? More than 4 comments?
You mention.nuance but todays cancel culture is exactly the opposite of nuanced.
Something else I have met many many people and nationalities and met very few who are not prejudiced (racist) in some way against someone. The subject is much wider than that on here. Of course this is here and now and has to be addressed.
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
More right on box ticking objectives that create division. For real equality how about insisting on employing someone from a background of poverty, regardless of ethnicity, ability or qualifications. Perhaps that could be further refined, must be a child of single parent family, or better still, have been in care for at least 10 years and the victim of abuse. The more disadvantaged the more smarty points the employer gains. FFS!
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
If this diversity thing really is THAT important, let’s have a look at the figures they want for the playing staff....
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Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
Anything that limits the amount of white men the better
Re: Football Leadership Diversity Code
Yes, God forbid that a country with a predominantly white population should have a higher number of white people occupying the top jobs.
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