“A blatant power grab” – Fans criticise own clubs on UCL plans

[steve1264b]

If we look at the managers of the big 6.

Chelsea -he will go with the club, he knows he will be sacked in 2 years
Spurs - dont have one but any new manager will be accepting of the changes
Arsenal - new, clinging onto his job, he will tug the forelock
Man U - he is also uncertain of his place at the club
Liverpool - Klopp doesn't like, has deployed the nothing to do with Guv defence, but he doesn't really care
Man City - Pep, the ultimate football man the purest,be interesting to see what he says.

I refuse to believe that Klopp and Pep did not know about this until Sunday. Those two are top of the tree at their clubs and City dont change the toilet paper without his approval.

I wonder what Zidane will say........

[duncandisorderly]

Perez has been planning this for at least 14 years, Woodward was at J P Morgan advising the Glazers when they took over, JP Morgan are behind this, they most certainly will have done all the necessary homework - if it goes through JP Morgan are set to make billions as well

14 years ago though Chelsea, Spurs and Man City wouldn't have been considered for a Super League - so 14 years from now when the russians bail on chelsea and spurs still haven't won anything does the Super League find a way to relegate them (even though they can't) and replace them with Villa and Wolves?

[cricketfieldclarets]

I refuse to believe that Klopp and Pep did not know about this until Sunday. Those two are top of the tree at their clubs and City dont change the toilet paper without his approval.

Spot on. Of course they knew.

[AlargeClaret]

Give it a few weeks and Sky will be in a state of heavily soiled underwear distress , they’ll no more sacrifice their premier league Crown Jewels ie “the big 6” than have Barry Bennell presenting Soccer Saturday . The ESL know their leverage is huge and no doubt PSG/Bayern et al will be on board after Quatar

[CaptJohn]

Strangely enough this move will undoubtedly make a lot of money from people who aren't actually football fans. This will appeal to folks who aren't die hard fans like ourselves, who are disgusted at the concept. The idea of Man U vs Real Madrid will generate TV revenue from advertisers and people who will see it as pure entertainment, whereas the same folks would not be interested by the idea of Man U vs Burnley. It's a smart move by the major powers and I admire their ingenuity but am convinced it's the death rattle for football as we know and love. I for one will not watch or subscribe to it but millions will I'm sure.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1384 ... 280?s=1001

Everton release a statement and its pretty brutal towards the 6.

[diamondpocket]

Strangely enough this move will undoubtedly make a lot of money from people who aren't actually football fans. This will appeal to folks who aren't die hard fans like ourselves, who are disgusted at the concept. The idea of Man U vs Real Madrid will generate TV revenue from advertisers and people who will see it as pure entertainment, whereas the same folks would not be interested by the idea of Man U vs Burnley. It's a smart move by the major powers and I admire their ingenuity but am convinced it's the death rattle for football as we know and love. I for one will not watch or subscribe to it but millions will I'm sure.

Yeah John. This is about 20/30 years down the line too. They have the chance to create a new form of football globally that can gradually become the norm. It will be marketed, manipulated and sold as entertainment like Boxing nights, that cage fighting stuff, NFL, etc. It may even develop into the NFL transfer show & auctions IPL style before the competition buying players for that season to fill in the gaps of the squad whilst having the top contracted players. The big clubs like Real & Barca have always wanted it like this, they feel entitled coz they've been at the top & the best since the 50's. But I'm sure they'll make room and grow it in the years to let others join once they have it all set up and other clubs/franchises can pay to get in.

[cricketfieldclarets]

https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1384 ... 280?s=1001

Everton release a statement and its pretty brutal towards the 6.

Superb.

Earnt their title of the peoples club right there.

All other clubs need to follow suit. The powerful on and off the field. including those at the self proclaimed big six.

[steve1264b]

The spanish and italian clubs want to start next year, so this means that this season is now compromised as the 6 dont need to worry about results.

I can think of 3 prem clubs who will be suggesting kicking them out and having no relegation.

Shouldn't the football league be cancelling the league cup final?

Where is the players union? Those who play outside of this new league will be getting pay cuts.

I would like to see players at the other 14 take action during games against the 6. I would suggest that at random times they all sit down for 6 minutes, if the big 6 players are really against it they will kick the ball out of play and sit with their peers.

Tonight brighton should sit down 6 minutes into the game, everyone around the world will see it and it will raise the debate.It will turn up the heat and we will see where the big 6 managers and players really sit on this.

[cricketfieldclarets]

The spanish and italian clubs want to start next year, so this means that this season is now compromised as the 6 dont need to worry about results.

I can think of 3 prem clubs who will be suggesting kicking them out and having no relegation.

Shouldn't the football league be cancelling the league cup final?

Where is the players union? Those who play outside of this new league will be getting pay cuts.

I would like to see players at the other 14 take action during games against the 6. I would suggest that at random times they all sit down for 6 minutes, if the big 6 players are really against it they will kick the ball out of play and sit with their peers.

Tonight brighton should sit down 6 minutes into the game, everyone around the world will see it and it will raise the debate.It will turn up the heat and we will see where the big 6 managers and players really sit on this.

What would send out an even bigger message is if the pawns sorry players of Spurs and Man City refuse to take the field in this weekends cup final.

[Garnerssoap]

Am I missing something. If we’re all against it just don’t subscribe or watch. It’d be no skin off our nose and I’d feel a bit sorry for big 6 fans but they can try take other action to hasten it’s demise. I’ve only seen one Far Eastern inter Milan fan in favour of it so far.
It worked for pay per view earlier this season

[Elizabeth]

It would but players have always followed the money

[thedoge]

Does this mean that these six clubs will not be in next season's European cups?If this is the case ,looking at the table now then Leeds would be in the Champions League and villa ,wolves in the Europa League.

[martin_p]

Does this mean that these six clubs will not be in next season's European cups?If this is the case ,looking at the table now then Leeds would be in the Champions League and villa ,wolves in the Europa League.

Yet still have a better claim to be in a European competition on merit than ‘the big six’ will have in the ESL.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Am I missing something. If we’re all against it just don’t subscribe or watch. It’d be no skin off our nose and I’d feel a bit sorry for big 6 fans but they can try take other action to hasten it’s demise. I’ve only seen one Far Eastern inter Milan fan in favour of it so far.
It worked for pay per view earlier this season

All well and good. But for every one of us that doesnt subscribe there will be millions of 'new fans' in other 'markets' that will!

[Ric_C]

James Corden pretty much hits the nail on the head here

https://twitter.com/JKCorden/status/138 ... 26595?s=03

[clansman]

Excellent statement from Everton and one which I would hope our Board will follow suit with.

[Lowbankclaret]

Both heads of FIFA. And UEFA, have come out in condemnation today.

UEFA President has said there is still time for them to come to their senses, but I don’t think they will.

More details emerge as time goes on.

The 6 teams need to be told they will be kicked out of the league at the end of the season and if they want to return they start at the bottom tier.

[Elizabeth]

All well and good. But for every one of us that doesnt subscribe there will be millions of 'new fans' in other 'markets' that will!

New and Reborn fans?

Real Madrid owner ( Perez?) has said he is saving the game of football because young fans are no longer interested in it. He cites examples of unknown teams playing in the Champions League who young people haven’t heard of.
This is the mentality that is driving this !

[Hipper]

Chester Perry wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:05 pm
Occasional contributor to the MMT thread and a well recognised expert on football finance @TheEsk with a very precise observation on this news

The private equity guys fed on the carcasses of the 2008 credit crunch. They are doing the same on the footballing carcasses of a post pandemic, regulated UEFA myopic world. Football is losing because those that run football are less intelligent than those who can provide finance

Are you saying that the clubs involved - the six Prem clubs for example - have had their existence threatened by the financial fallout of Covid?

[Sproggy]

Am I missing something. If we’re all against it just don’t subscribe or watch. It’d be no skin off our nose and I’d feel a bit sorry for big 6 fans but they can try take other action to hasten it’s demise. I’ve only seen one Far Eastern inter Milan fan in favour of it so far.
It worked for pay per view earlier this season

They don't care whether you unsubscribe - it isn't aimed at you. They will happily alienate the whole of the UK for a slice of the much bigger pie in other parts of the world. They also don't care that their own fans won't be able to go to games. Tourists spend more money. And they don't care about what effect their move will have on pretty much every other team left behind in domestic leagues who will all lose some level of TV revenue and have to pick up the pieces.

Whether they go through with it or it's being dome for leverage, it's disgusting.

[ClaretTony]

Wouldn’t like to try and pronounce that after a couple of beers, Tony!

I wouldn't try to pronounce it sober

[Hipper]

Are the refs involved or is it going to be a free for all when they play?

A weakness perhaps!

Would it be possible to buy up/contract the refs so that they would not be available for this new tournament?

[NewClaret]

James Corden pretty much hits the nail on the head here

https://twitter.com/JKCorden/status/138 ... 26595?s=03

Summarised exactly how I feel.

You can tell he’s emotional about it, but so am I to be honest.

[ClaretTony]

I think Tony tripped up, fell on his keyboard and got lucky tbh

I knew it because I've used it before given we played there in their first home game match after Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha passed away - so I just checked back and copied and pasted.

[boatshed bill]

Chelsea and Man City losing their bottle?

[ClaretTony]

https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1384 ... 280?s=1001

Everton release a statement and its pretty brutal towards the 6.

Well done Everton, what I would like to see every other club do but it is interesting that Everton were one of the secret group plotting behind the backs of others in the early 1990s with their plans for a Premier League, then alongside Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal and Spurs.

[EricaJacko]

Summarised exactly how I feel.

You can tell he’s emotional about it, but so am I to be honest.

I think the whole football world is emotional about it.

[EricaJacko]

Chelsea and Man City losing their bottle?

What makes you say that?

[ClaretTony]

Chelsea and Man City losing their bottle?

I've only just come online but it was said early yesterday that Chelsea and Manchester City had shown a reluctance initially but joined, presumably frightened at missing out.

[jrgbfc]

It's the closed shop that's the biggest disgrace. That has never happened under UEFA or the PL to my knowledge.

But it was Sky and the Premier League who started the gravy train, and they've done nothing but encourage it the last 25 years. That's why them attempting to take the moral high ground sticks in the craw a bit.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

A weakness perhaps!

Would it be possible to buy up/contract the refs so that they would not be available for this new tournament?

In places like Spain the refs are controlled by the FA so it would be easy for that country to control the refs.

England used to be the same until the refs went Pro back in 2001, so I'm not sure how the contracts work.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Excellent statement from Everton and one which I would hope our Board will follow suit with.

Just had a call with a customer who is an Arsenal fan.

His words - very sad day for football and I am totally against it. But I must say I am surprised Burnley appear to be one of the few clubs sitting on the fence along with Sheffield United.

[claretonthecoast1882]

https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1384 ... 280?s=1001

Everton release a statement and its pretty brutal towards the 6.

No surprise by the statement. There has always been 1 club with class in Liverpool and 1 without

[ClaretTony]

I don't know if this has been posted previously, apologies if it has, but the supporters groups at Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Man United and Spurs were working together for much of yesterday, and issued a brief statement last night. Many of the people involved in this work and producing this statement are people I know well and people I have the utmost respect for. It is very difficult sometimes to stick you head above the parapet to criticise your own club but well done to them.

The statement reads:

We are working urgently and closely with each other, and with the FSA and FSE, to fight these proposals. Despite our clubs' behaviour we are unified in opposition to them and we will continue to do all we can collectively to stop these plans. This includes seeking joint representation to the Government and all of the relevant football authorities. We will issue a more comprehensive statement in due course.

FSA: Football Supporters Association
FSE: Football Supporters Europe

[RMutt]

Interesting that this has come when we are being encouraged to travel less because of pollution etc. Or will there be the same amount of travel because those teams are travelling all over the place anyway?

[cricketfieldclarets]

Well done Everton, what I would like to see every other club do but it is interesting that Everton were one of the secret group plotting behind the backs of others in the early 1990s with their plans for a Premier League, then alongside Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal and Spurs.

Totally different. The Premier league wasnt a fundamental restructure of the pyramid or merits of competitive football. And nobody can argue that the exposure the sky era generated was huge improvements in the infrastructure and safety of football.

[ClaretTony]

Totally different. The Premier league wasnt a fundamental restructure of the pyramid or merits of competitive football. And nobody can argue that the exposure the sky era generated was huge improvements in the infrastructure and safety of football.

It is different but there are similarities and it was a restructuring of the pyramid and they were trying to make the Premier League a closed shop back some 30 years ago.

[EricaJacko]

Just had a call with a customer who is an Arsenal fan.

His words - very sad day for football and I am totally against it. But I must say I am surprised Burnley appear to be one of the few clubs sitting on the fence along with Sheffield United.

SU has a chance of staying up if it goes ahead.

[clansman]

Commy raised a good question a few posts back about referees and officials. No national football association will allow their refs to be involved so does super league set its own referee organisation up and just recruit mercenaries??

[Lowbankclaret]

FIFA President just flexed his muscles. You are either in or out. You cannot be half in and half out.

[cricketfieldclarets]

SU has a chance of staying up if it goes ahead.

As do we. But supporting it for self centred reasons would be equally immoral.

[cricketfieldclarets]

it was a restructuring of the pyramid

It wasnt though as it was 22 clubs before and 22 after.
Promotion and relegation still existed.

[ŽižkovClaret]

FIFA President just flexed his muscles. You are either in or out. You cannot be half in and half out.

Ah i see you know your hokey cokey well.....

[Lowbankclaret]

It is different but there are similarities and it was a restructuring of the pyramid and they were trying to make the Premier League a closed shop back some 30 years ago.

As much as FIFA is corrupt it has overseen changes that I think has improved football. I agree the closed shop back then was a bad idea and it got overturned. So the main premise of the pyramid remained.

When the idea of playoffs came in , I thought it would be crap and a team finished second it kinda is. But I love the play offs and often watch the lower league play offs.

[Clarets4me]

Yeah, coz 150k a week is really tough living! The big players can stand up and be against if they want. They earn enough in a couple of years to be set for life if they want. This rubbish about it being a short career isn't valid for top clubs of The Prem. They are getting that money due to agents. Let's see who has the guts to stand up against it and say it isn't fair competition. I doubt few will when it comes to playing in it. It'll be 'we all dreamed as little boys of playing on the biggest stage, and this is it". Yeah, even if you don't have to earn it?

Talking of extremely well paid athletes, a 2015 survey showed that 16% of retired NFL players filed for bankruptcy within 12 years of retirement ...

[ClaretTony]

It wasnt though as it was 22 clubs before and 22 after.
Promotion and relegation still existed.

The plans were to remove promotion and relegation - and it took a big fight to stop them. That was around 30 years ago and those of us around at the time haven't forgotten.

[ClaretTony]

As much as FIFA is corrupt it has overseen changes that I think has improved football. I agree the closed shop back then was a bad idea and it got overturned. So the main premise of the pyramid remained.

It wouldn't have remained had they got their own way. We can laugh now but Oldham voted to stop relegation thinking they'd be able to stay in there forever.

[cblantfanclub]

So club President of real Madrid has made a statement on Spanish TV

"Audiences are decreasing and rights are decreasing and something had to be done. We are all ruined. Television has to change so we can adapt."

It seems extremely simple to me they are unable to live within their means despite income going up and up they find ways to ruin themselves - how long before they can't fund it with all the new money? Have to laugh at "we are all ruined".

The agents will have a field day imagine how many million a week Mino Riaola will want now for his players.

[Chester Perry]

Are you saying that the clubs involved - the six Prem clubs for example - have had their existence threatened by the financial fallout of Covid?

No I am saying the Private Equity saw a means of taking a greater market share, by utilising already proven revenue generators and by initiating a closed shop at a point of great fragility and discord across the game. That private equity is not just JP Morgan. American Private Equity runs AC Milan, Manchester United, Arsenal and Liverpool, huge legacy names - these clubs were the internal drivers of this - Perez is just a revenue chaser who has transformed the statutes of his club so much that it is virtually impossible for him to leave without him choosing to or dying, but he has the connections within the hierarchies of the game, he has the ear of the FIFA president. He has been used as much as the ECA, the Americans will assume that he will still run a chaotic club same with Barcelona.

The football authorities have been floundering at the manoeuvres of these clubs for years, their abilities have been tested and probed to a huge extent over the last decade and the two state owned clubs in particularly have shown both statues and legal capabilities are weak (some would say incompetent). Add to that the distractions of the pandemic and the ingredients were ready for such a move.

For a year now I have been posting about Private Equity on the the MMT thread with the opening line of "The vultures are at the door", this has been coming, UEFA thought they had mitigated it with their absolute nonsense post 2024 plans, which they have still ratified out of defiance yesterday, alienating fans groups as much as SLco have, an act of gross inept stupidity. In truth the battle was lost in 1992 when the Champions League was formed and even earlier in this country when the FA changed the rules on ownership at the request of Irving Scholar.

All along the football authorities have never understood what was happening and been left to firefight while acting like puppets on extended strings.