Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

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CaptainKirk
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Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by CaptainKirk » Thu May 06, 2021 1:47 pm

Had a discussion here and no one can say why it goes underground at Earby? Only fields above apparently. Stroppy landowners perhaps?
I bet someone on here know.

Cirrus_Minor
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by Cirrus_Minor » Thu May 06, 2021 2:11 pm

There are tunnels at Foulridge and Gannow (Burnley).

uni_queue
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by uni_queue » Thu May 06, 2021 2:33 pm

It is so far underground that no one knew it was there ..
The L and L doesnt go to Earby..nearest would be Barlick and then on to Greenberfield -- round the back of Thornton

colner
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by colner » Thu May 06, 2021 2:38 pm

Bit of a read but interesting if you like that kind of thing
http://www.mikeclarke.myzen.co.uk/2014% ... 20L&LC.pdf

Jakubclaret
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by Jakubclaret » Thu May 06, 2021 2:38 pm

Cirrus_Minor wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 2:11 pm
There are tunnels at Foulridge and Gannow (Burnley).
True, there are few disused 1s I can think of as well, arterial branches onto the canal, back in the canals heyday it was vital for transportation & quarrying stone ect.

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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by Bosscat » Thu May 06, 2021 3:28 pm

CaptainKirk wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 1:47 pm
Had a discussion here and no one can say why it goes underground at Earby? Only fields above apparently. Stroppy landowners perhaps?
I bet someone on here know.
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Volvoclaret
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by Volvoclaret » Thu May 06, 2021 9:42 pm

It was underground so that the guards couldn't see the Yorkies trying to escape to the promised land of Lancashire 😁
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Burnley1989
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by Burnley1989 » Fri May 07, 2021 6:14 am

I live that way out and must admit, I know there’s a tunnel
at Foulridge but I wasn’t aware it went anywhere near Earby

1968claret
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by 1968claret » Fri May 07, 2021 8:16 am

If you mean the one at Foulridge, it is a simple matter of the gradients of the land. The engineers had two options, dig through the hills to go under the land or build locks to allow you to go over.
The problem with locks was that they created bottlenecks in the canal system and the mill owners, the finance behind the canals, wanted the quickest route from a to b.
It is why we have the long mile stretch through Burnley. A cheaper option was to have locks at gannow and stoneyholme ends. But this would have slowed the barges. So instead they built a mile long stretch above the town. Amazing to think that this was man made pretty much by hand!
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nonayclaret
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by nonayclaret » Fri May 07, 2021 8:34 am

The canal has to be kept full of water for obvious reasons. This is done from feeder reservoirs along the route. The canal is essentially a long strip of water passing over the Pennines and its highest part (pool) is near Foulridge. Gravity drags water out of the canal from here to the west and east because it drops to almost sea level at its terminal points of Leeds and Liverpool. It is only stopped from acting like a river temporarily by the locks, but as boats use these a constant re-supply of water is needed. This supply is most important at the top level otherwise the canal would slowly dry up from there downwards. The canal is gravity fed with water and needed to be below Foulridge Reservoir so that this could happen. So, they kept it as low as possible at the highest point to allow the maximum supply of water to get into it to re-fill it. This is why there are large reservoirs in the Foulridge area. That's my theory.
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tim_noone
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by tim_noone » Fri May 07, 2021 8:43 am

I believe the residents of Barley are in discussions for an underground Road tunnel running from roughlee under pendle hill to chatburn. Why for I dont know.. 8-) stroppy residents perhaps?
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Bosscat
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by Bosscat » Fri May 07, 2021 9:06 am

tim_noone wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 8:43 am
I believe the residents of Barley are in discussions for an underground Road tunnel running from roughlee under pendle hill to chatburn. Why for I dont know.. 8-) stroppy residents perhaps?
Thought they wanted an underground Car Park 🤔
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CaptainKirk
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by CaptainKirk » Fri May 07, 2021 10:22 am

Thanks for the replies - some interesting ones and one which lead me to a good read. (I must be getting old).
The underground road and car park in Barley sounds like a good idea.
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Lowbankclaret
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri May 07, 2021 11:48 am

nonayclaret wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 8:34 am
The canal has to be kept full of water for obvious reasons. This is done from feeder reservoirs along the route. The canal is essentially a long strip of water passing over the Pennines and its highest part (pool) is near Foulridge. Gravity drags water out of the canal from here to the west and east because it drops to almost sea level at its terminal points of Leeds and Liverpool. It is only stopped from acting like a river temporarily by the locks, but as boats use these a constant re-supply of water is needed. This supply is most important at the top level otherwise the canal would slowly dry up from there downwards. The canal is gravity fed with water and needed to be below Foulridge Reservoir so that this could happen. So, they kept it as low as possible at the highest point to allow the maximum supply of water to get into it to re-fill it. This is why there are large reservoirs in the Foulridge area. That's my theory.
I think you are very close to the reason there. The Foulridge stretch is the highest point of the canal. As you say the canal has to be fed with water at this uppermost point. I think each time a lock is used it uses about 300,000 litres of water. I am fairly sure the 4 reservoirs used to fill the Foulridge stretch are Foulridge upper and lower. Slipper hill and whitemoor. I think the reason they did the tunnel was because of the height of these reservoirs. I helped bring a boat back from Leeds last year and Foulridge tunnel was fun.

Bosscat
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by Bosscat » Fri May 07, 2021 1:08 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 11:48 am
I think you are very close to the reason there. The Foulridge stretch is the highest point of the canal. As you say the canal has to be fed with water at this uppermost point. I think each time a lock is used it uses about 300,000 litres of water. I am fairly sure the 4 reservoirs used to fill the Foulridge stretch are Foulridge upper and lower. Slipper hill and whitemoor. I think the reason they did the tunnel was because of the height of these reservoirs. I helped bring a boat back from Leeds last year and Foulridge tunnel was fun.
Would have been a heck of a task legging the barges (2 men on a plank across the barge, moving the barge with their feet) through these tunnels back in the days of horse drawn barges...
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JohnMac
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by JohnMac » Fri May 07, 2021 5:03 pm

Bosscat wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 1:08 pm
Would have been a heck of a task legging the barges (2 men on a plank across the barge, moving the barge with their feet) through these tunnels back in the days of horse drawn barges...
7000658.jpg
Note the two Supervisors at the back. The left hand one is making sure the legs are moving in unison and the right hand one is doing time and motion to ensure they are 'legging' it at sufficient speed :D

Lowbankclaret
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri May 07, 2021 5:17 pm

Bosscat wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 1:08 pm
Would have been a heck of a task legging the barges (2 men on a plank across the barge, moving the barge with their feet) through these tunnels back in the days of horse drawn barges...
7000658.jpg
Apparently you paid them with bread and cheese.

TheFamilyCat
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by TheFamilyCat » Fri May 07, 2021 6:37 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 11:48 am
I think you are very close to the reason there. The Foulridge stretch is the highest point of the canal. As you say the canal has to be fed with water at this uppermost point. I think each time a lock is used it uses about 300,000 litres of water. I am fairly sure the 4 reservoirs used to fill the Foulridge stretch are Foulridge upper and lower. Slipper hill and whitemoor. I think the reason they did the tunnel was because of the height of these reservoirs. I helped bring a boat back from Leeds last year and Foulridge tunnel was fun.
For some reason I recall from A-Level geography nearly 30 years ago that the watershed runs right through Foulridge (across the main road, just before the Hare & Hounds we were told).

Rain that falls on either side of it ends up in either the North Sea or Irish Sea.

Why I can remember stuff like that but not the wife's birthday is beyond me.

Lowbankclaret
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by Lowbankclaret » Fri May 07, 2021 8:08 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 6:37 pm
For some reason I recall from A-Level geography nearly 30 years ago that the watershed runs right through Foulridge (across the main road, just before the Hare & Hounds we were told).

Rain that falls on either side of it ends up in either the North Sea or Irish Sea.

Why I can remember stuff like that but not the wife's birthday is beyond me.
All I can add to that is I know the waste from Rolls Royce Bankfield goes to west and the Ghyll Brow site goes to the East.

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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri May 07, 2021 8:33 pm

1968claret wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 8:16 am
If you mean the one at Foulridge, it is a simple matter of the gradients of the land. The engineers had two options, dig through the hills to go under the land or build locks to allow you to go over.
The problem with locks was that they created bottlenecks in the canal system and the mill owners, the finance behind the canals, wanted the quickest route from a to b.
It is why we have the long mile stretch through Burnley. A cheaper option was to have locks at gannow and stoneyholme ends. But this would have slowed the barges. So instead they built a mile long stretch above the town. Amazing to think that this was man made pretty much by hand!
Never even thought of that. They’d struggle to build it proper with machines these days.

Quickenthetempo
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by Quickenthetempo » Fri May 07, 2021 9:01 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 8:33 pm
Never even thought of that. They’d struggle to build it proper with machines these days.
They would be able to build it no problem.

The difference is they had time to build properly in them days, whereas things are built quickly to maximize profits these days.

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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by Rowls » Fri May 07, 2021 9:05 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 9:01 pm
They would be able to build it no problem.

The difference is they had time to build properly in them days, whereas things are built quickly to maximize profits these days.
Nope. Canals, like anything else, were built as quickly as possible to cut down on labour costs.

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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by dougcollins » Fri May 07, 2021 9:23 pm

Foulridge, I think, is the centre of the L & L canal system.

The two reservoirs put the water in - one side of the tunnel the flow is right to left (towards Liverpool) and if you're stood on the same side of the canal on the other side, the flow is left to right, (towards Leeds).

Though I fully accept that this doesn't explain the existence of the tunnel, this could all happen without it.

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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by karatekid » Sat May 08, 2021 9:24 am

Why do the distance markers on the towpath for Leeds and Liverpool always seem to point in the wrong direction?

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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sat May 08, 2021 9:38 am

karatekid wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:24 am
Why do the distance markers on the towpath for Leeds and Liverpool always seem to point in the wrong direction?
So they were visible to people travelling towards Leeds or Liverpool.

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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by Lowbankclaret » Sat May 08, 2021 10:58 am

dougcollins wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 9:23 pm
Foulridge, I think, is the centre of the L & L canal system.

The two reservoirs put the water in - one side of the tunnel the flow is right to left (towards Liverpool) and if you're stood on the same side of the canal on the other side, the flow is left to right, (towards Leeds).

Though I fully accept that this doesn't explain the existence of the tunnel, this could all happen without it.
As I understand it there are 4 reservoirs that provide water for the canal. Upper and lower Foulridge, slipper hill and Whitemoor.

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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat May 08, 2021 11:34 am

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 10:58 am
As I understand it there are 4 reservoirs that provide water for the canal. Upper and lower Foulridge, slipper hill and Whitemoor.
Rishton & winterburn in addition, there’s 7 in total.

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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by ClaretCliff » Sat May 08, 2021 7:08 pm

I lived in Worsley until recently, home of the Bridgewater Canal. This joins the Leeds Liverpool canal at Leigh so I’ll use that as an excuse to add some stuff about the Bridgewater Canal to this thread😊.
The Bridgewater canal was built in 1761 to carry coal from Worsley to Manchester. There are a couple of tunnel entrances in the centre of Worsley which lead to an incredible 46 miles of underground tunnels used to deliver coal from the mines to the canal. The tunnels also drained the mines and served to top-up the canal without the need for reservoirs.
Despite many attempts to clean it the canal is still orange in colour because of iron ore washed into the canal from the tunnels.
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Bosscat
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by Bosscat » Sat May 08, 2021 7:56 pm

dougcollins wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 9:23 pm
Foulridge, I think, is the centre of the L & L canal system.

The two reservoirs put the water in - one side of the tunnel the flow is right to left (towards Liverpool) and if you're stood on the same side of the canal on the other side, the flow is left to right, (towards Leeds).

Though I fully accept that this doesn't explain the existence of the tunnel, this could all happen without it.
Greenberfield Locks nr Barnowldswick highest point on LL canal

http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/ll/ll46.htm

Athletico mtoto
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by Athletico mtoto » Sat May 08, 2021 8:23 pm

In theory the summit level runs from greenberfield locks
where the locks rise up from the Leeds side of the canal
to barrowford locks where the locks drop down to the
Liverpool side of the canal

Woodleyclaret
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Re: Leeds - Liverpool canal underground bit

Post by Woodleyclaret » Sat May 08, 2021 8:48 pm

There is a branch line at Lathom near Burscough where I was born
This leg of the canal took goods up to Preston via the River Douglas
At the junction is a pub run for a time by Burnley supporters called the Ship
The Ship was known locally as the Blood Tub named after a large barrel
When two barges arrived at the intersection simultaneously the skippers would fight for the right to be first up the branch line
The fight consisted of placing the arms on the other skippers shoulder and kicking him in the shins .The idea was to block the shots using your feet.The footwear was hotmail boots with studs in the soles
This was a contest till one won and both bloodied skippers would jump in the large barrel and wash off the blood.
The looser got the ale in and then followed the winner up the Rufford line.

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