Dwight to Villa?

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Newcastleclaret93
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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sun May 09, 2021 10:57 am

taio wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:42 am
We are holding McNeil back? What a load of tosh. We have given him the opportunity to thrive to the extent that’s he played about 100 times at the highest level by the age of 21. Yet he’s still got plenty of room for improvement. McNeil himself recognises this.
Yes we were a good benchmark to start his career. I would be surprised if his agent is not actively looking to get him a move elsewhere.

If he wants to play for England and win trophies he’s need to move to a club with a more attacking outlook.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by tiger76 » Sun May 09, 2021 11:02 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:57 am
Yes we were a good benchmark to start his career. I would be surprised if his agent is not actively looking to get him a move elsewhere.

If he wants to play for England and win trophies he’s need to move to a club with a more attacking outlook.
This is true, however if Dwight goes elsewhere he may find himself warming the bench, whereas at Burnley he's pretty much guaranteed a start every week, and he won't develop sitting on the bench will he.

I'd hope we can hold onto him for another season at least, Tarks will likely go this summer, and Gibson, so we shouldn't have to sell Dwight unless we wish too. Or we get a crazy bid, which I doubt will happen.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sun May 09, 2021 11:09 am

tiger76 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 11:02 am
This is true, however if Dwight goes elsewhere he may find himself warming the bench, whereas at Burnley he's pretty much guaranteed a start every week, and he won't develop sitting on the bench will he.

I'd hope we can hold onto him for another season at least, Tarks will likely go this summer, and Gibson, so we shouldn't have to sell Dwight unless we wish too. Or we get a crazy bid, which I doubt will happen.
Possibly but I am sure he will believe in his own ability.

He’s not going to develop into the player he can be defending 90% of the time. He literally gets double marked every single game now, because everyone knows he is literally our only creative outlet from open play.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by taio » Sun May 09, 2021 11:10 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:57 am
Yes we were a good benchmark to start his career. I would be surprised if his agent is not actively looking to get him a move elsewhere.

If he wants to play for England and win trophies he’s need to move to a club with a more attacking outlook.
As McNeil and his dad have previously said the best thing he can be doing at such a young age is playing regular premier league football.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by bodge » Sun May 09, 2021 11:15 am

I think the notion that we are holding him back is nonsense, in fact the opposite is true.

He is demonstrating now that he has the stamina and is prepared to work his tail off, in a side who don't dominate the ball.

If you're going to a top six outfit it's a pre requisite that you work hard, it's a fallacy that you can flounce around whilst all the flair players keep the ball amongst themselves.

The fact that he is double marked on occasions is teaching him to retain possession in tight spaces, again a requirement for operating in the top levels of the game.

He'll move on at some point but hopefully not yet as he is still physically developing and can continue to provide our cutting edge.

Some people don't realise what we have on our hands with Dwight, he can go on to have a fantastic career, one where Burnley have provided the launchpad.
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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by taio » Sun May 09, 2021 11:20 am

Of course he will move on at some point and that could be sooner rather than later but Dwight certainly doesn’t think our club has held him back because that would be nonsense:

“I had a talk with my dad and my family,” he said. “We came to the conclusion that the best decision, the right decision, was to sign another contract and have that reassurance of being part of a team and having that establishment within the team.”

No surprise that the couple of people saying we are holding him back rarely have anything decent to say about our club.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by tiger76 » Sun May 09, 2021 11:25 am

bodge wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 11:15 am
I think the notion that we are holding him back is nonsense, in fact the opposite is true.

He is demonstrating now that he has the stamina and is prepared to work his tail off, in a side who don't dominate the ball.

If you're going to a top six outfit it's a pre requisite that you work hard, it's a fallacy that you can flounce around whilst all the flair players keep the ball amongst themselves.

The fact that he is double marked on occasions is teaching him to retain possession in tight spaces, again a requirement for operating in the top levels of the game.

He'll move on at some point but hopefully not yet as he is still physically developing and can continue to provide our cutting edge.

Some people don't realise what we have on our hands with Dwight, he can go on to have a fantastic career, one where Burnley have provided the launchpad.
I wasn't around in the early 80's, but it sounds like Dwight could be our hottest prospect since the days of Trevor Steven, and he enjoyed a decent career after leaving TM, so if Dwight has half the success Trevor had he'll have done well for himself. But hopefully we can enjoy him at Burnley for a while yet, before he moves on to bigger and brighter things.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun May 09, 2021 11:30 am

Some people suggesting McNeil isn't worth much more than £15-20 million....

We paid £13 million for a 25yr old winger 4yrs ago who had less PL appearances and had less PL goals I think.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Oh and 7-8yrs ago Utd signed a winger from Palace for £10 million plus potentially £5 million in addons for a young lad from Palace.
That lad has since returned to Palace and was valued at around £50 million plus not that long ago.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sun May 09, 2021 11:39 am

taio wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 11:20 am
Of course he will move on at some point and that could be sooner rather than later but Dwight certainly doesn’t think our club has held him back because that would be nonsense:

“I had a talk with my dad and my family,” he said. “We came to the conclusion that the best decision, the right decision, was to sign another contract and have that reassurance of being part of a team and having that establishment within the team.”

No surprise that the couple of people saying we are holding him back rarely have anything decent to say about our club.
I don’t think we have held him back yet. But I think we are beginning too. This is the season he needs to move for his career.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by brexit » Sun May 09, 2021 11:42 am

yes please not good enough for us - one trick pony. It will allow Brady to have the run of games he deserves.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun May 09, 2021 11:46 am

He doesn't need to move this summer for his career though, especially if he's happy here for now.
He could go next year for all the difference it would make to his career.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by Rileybobs » Sun May 09, 2021 12:15 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 11:39 am
I don’t think we have held him back yet. But I think we are beginning too. This is the season he needs to move for his career.
So on the one hand you’re criticising the club’s lack of transfer activity and weakness of the squad, yet on the other you’re suggesting we’re holding one of our better players back and advising he leaves the club?
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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun May 09, 2021 12:46 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 12:15 pm
So on the one hand you’re criticising the club’s lack of transfer activity and weakness of the squad, yet on the other you’re suggesting we’re holding one of our better players back and advising he leaves the club?
I think they call it covering all bases.

Like someone else saying McNeil isn't worth £15 million and then talking about the former Swansea player being worth more than the £50 million in the long term.

Some people just refuse to pick a side in these discussions.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by ecc » Sun May 09, 2021 12:46 pm

"Jude Bellingham was sold for an initial fee of £25 million and I don't think he'd even signed a full professional contract at Birmingham, yet people value McNeil at a lower price "

Bellingham played a full season aged 16 and was too young to sign a professional contract. As he and his family are Blues fans they waited until he turned 17 so he could sign a contract in order to enable his club to get that fee.
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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by joey13 » Sun May 09, 2021 2:31 pm

McNeil is easily worth minimum 25m

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by Bosscat » Sun May 09, 2021 2:36 pm

brexit wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 11:42 am
yes please not good enough for us - one trick pony. It will allow Brady to have the run of games he deserves.
Oi Devils-Advocate you forgot to swap your log-in before posting 🤭🤭🤭
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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by Claret_tinted » Sun May 09, 2021 10:05 pm

I like Dwight, in our team. I personally don’t think he will make it to the top of the league/game. I don’t think he’s got the ability to concentrate for the required period of time needed to make it at the top.

I hope to be proved wrong.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sun May 09, 2021 10:10 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 12:15 pm
So on the one hand you’re criticising the club’s lack of transfer activity and weakness of the squad, yet on the other you’re suggesting we’re holding one of our better players back and advising he leaves the club?
They arnt mutually exclusive. Our transfer business has been shocking for years now. Last decent player we signed for the first team was Wood in 2017.

I would love it if McNeil stayed as it best for Burnley (country mile our best player). I am just highlighting that for his personal career it is the wrong decision to stay.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by Elizabeth » Sun May 09, 2021 10:25 pm

For some time now Newcastle you have been posting like a jilted lover . I remember when you were full of hope and excited to the point of exhilaration .
What’s happened?

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by bobinho » Sun May 09, 2021 10:35 pm

And in my opinion you are wrong in that Newcastle. He won't be going `top six`, and it's highly unlikely any of the others will have him starting. he will develop by playing regular football at the highest level. He's doing that now. Moving anywhere reduces that likelihood.

Better off where he is, playing football every week at the highest level. Thank Christ his Dad and family can see that, and thank Christ he is smart enough to listen to them as opposed to a greedy agent who will no doubt be trying to convince him to move in the hope his own pocket will be well lined.

He's nowhere near the England set up and highly unlikely to be causing GS a selection headache so that argument is irrelevant.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by KRBFC » Sun May 09, 2021 10:55 pm

Claret_tinted wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:07 am
I don’t disagree, but that’s the risk for a purchasing club. They have to mitigate that with a lower fee and future add ons.

Cantwell at Norwich is another good example. Similar to Dwight in poetical and international caps, but no one was willing to take that risk.

Long term I think Dwight would be best employed as a 10 not a left winger. That also creates doubt.
He isn't a number 10 type for me, he doesn't have the vision and natural ability to rip defences apart with 1 pass. When I think of a 10 type, I think of James Rodriguez, Ozil, De Bruyne, David Silva, Foden, people with the ability to pass with their eyes closed.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by KRBFC » Sun May 09, 2021 11:03 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:56 am
Well that's precisely my point, he moved from the Championship, and yet still went for around £20m, and yet people think we'll only net £20m for Dwight who's been a PL mainstay for 3 seasons, and shown he can have an impact at this level when deployed correctly, talk about undervaluing our own players.
I don't think it's under valuing at all, makes a change from the bat **** crazy stuff we read on here, ''Michael Keane future England captain'' ''''Tarks is worth £70m like Maguire'' ''Tyrone Mears should be England's number 1 right back''.

I think Mcneil for £25M sounds about right, it's stupid to even compare other transfers, that formula has never ever worked. Mahrez cost Leicester 500k, Musa cost Leicester £25M. etc etc Mcneil is very good for us, he's worth alot more to us than he is to other teams. Could Mcneil play for a better team (Leeds/Villa) sure, I just don't see clubs desperate to sign him and normally when players are young and in the spotlight, the top clubs are quick.

You have every club in Europe chasing Sancho, United making bids for £100M, they don't fancy Dwight for £20-25m?

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun May 09, 2021 11:09 pm

Mahrez was playing in the French 2nd division when Leicester spotted him, hence the price.

Musa had been playing at CSKA Moscow and appeared in a world cup, African cup of nations winner etc, hence the £16 million fee.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by KRBFC » Sun May 09, 2021 11:17 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 11:09 pm
Mahrez was playing in the French 2nd division when Leicester spotted him, hence the price.

Musa had been playing at CSKA Moscow and appeared in a world cup, African cup of nations winner etc, hence the £16 million fee.
I'm well aware of that, I used that as an example after I said ''that formula never ever works''.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by Rileybobs » Sun May 09, 2021 11:18 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:10 pm
They arnt mutually exclusive. Our transfer business has been shocking for years now. Last decent player we signed for the first team was Wood in 2017.

I would love it if McNeil stayed as it best for Burnley (country mile our best player). I am just highlighting that for his personal career it is the wrong decision to stay.
If you think that we are holding back McNeil, and feel that it’s in his best interests to leave, then how do you expect us to sign players of sufficient quality to significantly strengthen our squad? Why would it be in the interests of a talented player to sign for a club that restricts the development of their players?

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun May 09, 2021 11:30 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 11:17 pm
I'm well aware of that, I used that as an example after I said ''that formula never ever works''.
You used an unproven player and compared his transfer fee to that of someone who'd been regularly playing international football, the comparison didn't make sense in that respect.

Most of us are comparing McNeil to other players in a similar position to him, whilst taking into account the length of his contract etc.

He's definitely worth more than the paltry and stupid £15 million, it's closer to £30 million as a minimum when you factor in his contract.

Part of the issue is small minded thinking by some fans who still aren't used to the club getting very good prices for players in demand.
We got very good money for Keane and even for Andre Gray we did quite well.
Mind you we have some fans on here who've valued Wood at less than what we paid for him :lol:

I agree the Mears comments were amusing.

Sancho is being chased by top clubs because he's a better player than McNeil quite simply, McNeil isn't ready to become a first team starter for Utd, Sancho is.

McNeil has to take another step first to somewhere like Everton.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by KRBFC » Sun May 09, 2021 11:48 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 11:30 pm
You used an unproven player and compared his transfer fee to that of someone who'd been regularly playing international football, the comparison didn't make sense in that respect.

Most of us are comparing McNeil to other players in a similar position to him, whilst taking into account the length of his contract etc.

He's definitely worth more than the paltry and stupid £15 million, it's closer to £30 million as a minimum when you factor in his contract.

Part of the issue is small minded thinking by some fans who still aren't used to the club getting very good prices for players in demand.
We got very good money for Keane and even for Andre Gray we did quite well.
Mind you we have some fans on here who've valued Wood at less than what we paid for him :lol:

I agree the Mears comments were amusing.

Sancho is being chased by top clubs because he's a better player than McNeil quite simply, McNeil isn't ready to become a first team starter for Utd, Sancho is.

McNeil has to take another step first to somewhere like Everton.
The deal comparison has never ever worked, you say Mcneil has 100 PL appearances, Toney has 0. Toney will sell for a higher price than Mcneil, same with Watkins.

Wood valued at less than what we paid? probably even though he's arguably a better player.

You are only worth what somebody is prepared to pay, I don't see clubs desperate to sign a soon to be 30 year old Chris Wood for £20m+, you're better off signing a 21 year Eze for £14M, £7M for 26 year old Immobile or £10M for a 29 year old Edin Dzeko.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by NRC » Mon May 10, 2021 4:26 am

more interesting aspect of this thread, so far nowhere near discussed enough is not his absolutely price, but his relative price for what a visionary manager might consider his best position.

Out wide, while he creates goals he’s one dimensional with his inability to come inside on his right. More central he could develop the playmaking or scoring vision mentioned above. For me, he should be watching Jack Grealish. He could have that potential in him that a manager might spot

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by KRBFC » Mon May 10, 2021 6:22 am

NRC wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 4:26 am
More central he could develop the playmaking vision mentioned above.
I'm not sure you can develop it, to me the ability to play that role seems natural, like a god given gift. Ozil/De Bruyne/Foden/Rodriguez/Bernardo/Fernandes role, they can all pass with their eyes closed, eyes in the back of their head and can split the entire defence in 1 pass, they make passing look easy. I just don't see that cultured passing ability in Dwight.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by taio » Mon May 10, 2021 7:19 am

KRBFC wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 11:48 pm
The deal comparison has never ever worked, you say Mcneil has 100 PL appearances, Toney has 0. Toney will sell for a higher price than Mcneil, same with Watkins.

Wood valued at less than what we paid? probably even though he's arguably a better player.

You are only worth what somebody is prepared to pay, I don't see clubs desperate to sign a soon to be 30 year old Chris Wood for £20m+, you're better off signing a 21 year Eze for £14M, £7M for 26 year old Immobile or £10M for a 29 year old Edin Dzeko.
Dzeko at 35 is almost six years older than Wood.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by Iloveyoubrady » Mon May 10, 2021 8:23 am

Why would Dwight be worth less than Toney.

Some of our fans severely underrate this guy. He’s 21 and still our best player. Why on earth would we sell him for stupid numbers like £15 or £20 million. If you asked every club in the league to buy Dwight for that much, every single one of them would bite your hand off.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon May 10, 2021 8:51 am

Iloveyoubrady wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 8:23 am
Why would Dwight be worth less than Toney.

Some of our fans severely underrate this guy. He’s 21 and still our best player. Why on earth would we sell him for stupid numbers like £15 or £20 million. If you asked every club in the league to buy Dwight for that much, every single one of them would bite your hand off.
The people undervaluing him would most likely be the same people moaning if he was sold for £15 million and are probably the ones who moaned when Hendrick left for free.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by KRBFC » Mon May 10, 2021 2:28 pm

taio wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 7:19 am
Dzeko at 35 is almost six years older than Wood.
You missed the point, Dzeko was sold for £10M when he was 29 years old.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon May 10, 2021 2:44 pm

Amusing stat

Dzeko - 130 PL appearances and 50 league goals for city.

Wood - 123 PL appearances and 45 league goals for us

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by AlargeClaret » Mon May 10, 2021 2:54 pm

Dwight’s still learning,though he needs that “ breakout “ season maybe 7/8 goals and he’ll be worth 40m . He needs a creative Defour type CM to provide sweet through balls and deft passes . He works v well with Taylor and if Charlie can stay fit with the added supply route of a quality CM we could see a very prolific DM. Probs worth about 15-20m at the most with a “ here and now” price

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by tiger76 » Mon May 10, 2021 3:07 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 2:44 pm
Amusing stat

Dzeko - 130 PL appearances and 50 league goals for city.

Wood - 123 PL appearances and 45 league goals for us
Yes it has been mentioned on here before Wood's numbers are very good compared to many others.

And I'd wager Wood gets far fewer chances than Dzeko got at City.

Woody may not break the 50 barrier this season, but he will break it soon enough, and he'll probably now beat Barnes to the half century mark in terms of PL goals, it's staggering to imagine that we could have 2 strikers on our books who boost those stats, crikey! it was only a few years ago we often had to sell our main strikers, Austin, Gray etc. how times have changed.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by tiger76 » Mon May 10, 2021 3:14 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 8:51 am
The people undervaluing him would most likely be the same people moaning if he was sold for £15 million and are probably the ones who moaned when Hendrick left for free.
Exactly! if Dwight were to leave for a paltry £15m this summer I'll guarantee many posters would be having a meltdown, I'll never understand Burnley fans we often seem to revel in talking our own players down, is Dwight the finished article of course not, but he's shown plenty of ability to suggest he has a long term future at this level, and in the current market that's got to be worth £25-30m, also he's still only 21, and has 3 years left on his contract, so if he was to depart this summer I'd expect a lot more than £15m, thankfully our board drive a hard bargain when it comes to selling, and they won't let him go cheaply if he even leaves at all this summer which I highly doubt.
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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by taio » Mon May 10, 2021 4:48 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 2:28 pm
You missed the point, Dzeko was sold for £10M when he was 29 years old.
I did miss the point because I didn't for a moment believe you would be attempting to cherry pick from a deal that was done six years ago.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon May 10, 2021 4:56 pm

Roma got him very cheap, loan with option to buy, but City didn't care about taking a £17 million hit on what they originally paid for him.

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by warksclaret » Mon May 10, 2021 5:08 pm

I cannot see any other PL team currently, that would be giving Dwight so many starts in the PL Division as we do. Infact with us he must be one of the first men on the team sheet, and I only recall him being subbed three times in the last 2 to 3 seasons . Villa have quite a line up of wide men, and the opportunities would be more restricted

Their wide man Traore, who I rate, does not always start

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Re: Dwight to Villa?

Post by KRBFC » Mon May 10, 2021 8:25 pm

taio wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 4:48 pm
I did miss the point because I didn't for a moment believe you would be attempting to cherry pick from a deal that was done six years ago.
I mentioned more recent deals, just alternative deals to spending £20M+ on soon to be 30 year old Chris Wood. Its ok though, we all lack basic reading skills sometimes.

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