Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

[NewClaret]

Neco Williams had a stinker there

Looked good on the ball since

[Chester Perry]

Might be 45 million but not net spend

9 million for Gibson
25 million minus 5 to Brentford for Tark say
And the 7ish million bonus from Norwich and Watford coming back up and it's more like about 6 million net spend if they spend anything like 45 million, but at least we are spending

it is not about net spend it is about the annual cost (known as amortisation) the longer the deal the lower the amortisation- I had suggested that the club may go as £45m on 4 year deals - but 5 year deals could see that closer to £60m - though I state again the fear is that without significant revenue uplifts/player sales this window will be a one off.

for clarification amortisation covers all parts of the player acquisition cost - mainly transfer and agent fees. Football rules require that amortisation is applied in a straight line - so £60m over 5 years is a £12m a year accounting cost - if we add that to what it was likely to be in the accounts for 2020/21 then we are likely to be close to the levels of the 2018/19 accounts (£37m+).

[Jakubclaret]

Who says he’s unhappy? Looked fine last season to me.

If I were a few months away from signing a massively lucrative contract somewhere, I’d be very happy.

Sorry I could have explained that post better, I didn’t mean he’s unhappy unhappy in the worse possible sense, I merely meant he would have been far happier had his wish/desire been granted earlier, by contractual obligations he’s prolonging a situation which isn’t desirable to himself.

[Dark Cloud]

But we aren't happy to sell him, Dyche has said that he will be here next season.

The thing is, I was kind of talking "generally" about players and a trend I see possibly developing with the running down of contracts and not necessarily specifically about Tarks, although I can see him potentially being a part of that trend. Re Tarks situation in particular, it appears to me that the club are resigned to selling him this summer and Collins plus an other PL standard CB coming in makes that happen, but without that incoming we'll make him stay, take the hit next year and we won't sell. It also calls into question where Kevin Long will begin next season because despite his new contract he will be lucky to kick a ball in anger if we keep signing better CBs and I think Tarks won't be the only one moving out (along with Dunne), but that's a side issue. Like others have said, personally it seems a good idea to sell Tarks for ready cash now if we firmly believe we have the right replacements in the club, but re my original point (or part of it) we can line up any deal we want, but Tarky has to fancy where we're selling him off to and if it's Leicester or above for example he'll probably say "fine", but if it's not (and it may not be) then he'll probably say "nope, I'll sit it out, thanks" and we'll have an issue re the coming season with a player who is basically batting out time and wants to leave!!

[claretandy]

The thing is, I was kind of talking "generally" about players and a trend I see possibly developing with the running down of contracts and not necessarily specifically about Tarks, although I can see him potentially being a part of that trend. Re Tarks situation in particular, it appears to me that the club are resigned to selling him this summer and Collins plus an other PL standard CB coming in makes that happen, but without that incoming we'll make him stay, take the hit next year and we won't sell. It also calls into question where Kevin Long will begin next season because despite his new contract he will be lucky to kick a ball in anger if we keep signing better CBs and I think Tarks won't be the only one moving out (along with Dunne), but that's a side issue. Like others have said, personally it seems a good idea to sell Tarks for ready cash now if we firmly believe we have the right replacements in the club, but re my original point (or part of it) we can line up any deal we want, but Tarky has to fancy where we're selling him off to and if it's Leicester or above for example he'll probably say "fine", but if it's not (and it may not be) then he'll probably say "nope, I'll sit it out, thanks" and we'll have an issue re the coming season with a player who is basically batting out time and wants to leave!!

Like I've already said, big statement from dyche saying that he will be here next season.

[TheFamilyCat]

I could have explained that post better

Your entire UTC history summed up in seven words.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It also calls into question where Kevin Long will begin next season because despite his new contract he will be lucky to kick a ball in anger if we keep signing better CBs

63 appearances for us in 11 years would suggest Kevin Long is more than happy being 4th choice and the club is happy to keep paying him to do that.

[boatshed bill]

63 appearances for us in 11 years would suggest Kevin Long is more than happy being 4th choice and the club is happy to keep paying him to do that.

I'm beginning to lose patience with KL's lack of ambition. He's not really pushing those ahead of him, but he could be a bit of a barrier to those behind in the squad who cannot progress.

[NewClaret]

Sorry I could have explained that post better, I didn’t mean he’s unhappy unhappy in the worse possible sense, I merely meant he would have been far happier had his wish/desire been granted earlier, by contractual obligations he’s prolonging a situation which isn’t desirable to himself.

Contractual obligations he willingly entered.

If we had a happy-o-meter, I dare say he might’ve scored higher had he sold to West Ham or Leicester, but equally he can’t expect the club to accept a deal that is not right for him & I think he’ll have enough respect for his team mates, manager and himself not to let any disappointment to impact his performances if a move doesn’t happen this year. The thought of a massive pay rise looming should get him through.

[TsarBomba]

I'm beginning to lose patience with KL's lack of ambition. He's not really pushing those ahead of him, but he could be a bit of a barrier to those behind in the squad who cannot progress.

KL doesn’t have a lack of ambition.

His stay at Burnley suits all parties.

We have a competent, 4th choice CB with international experience who is obviously of good character and ability, because you wouldn’t last 8 years under Dyche if you were anything but.

His presence in the squad arguably helps us develop young CB’s because it allows us to send them out on loan to get experience, instead of hanging around the fringes of the squad covering that 4th choice role.

And I can’t imagine there is a queue of CB’s wanting to be 4th choice at our place.

Of all the deficiencies and issues in our squad, KL is the least of them.

[boatshed bill]

KL doesn’t have a lack of ambition.

His stay at Burnley suits all parties.

We have a competent, 4th choice CB with international experience who is obviously of good character and ability, because you wouldn’t last 8 years under Dyche if you were anything but.

His presence in the squad arguably helps us develop young CB’s because it allows us to send them out on loan to get experience, instead of hanging around the fringes of the squad covering that 4th choice role.

And I can’t imagine there is a queue of CB’s wanting to be 4th choice at our place.

Of all the deficiencies and issues in our squad, KL is the least of them.

I thought he was 3rd choice??

[Bigvince]

I thought he was 3rd choice??

He was, but with the arrival of Collins I would imagine he could now be 4th choice

[TsarBomba]

I thought he was 3rd choice??

Tarks, Mee, Collins, Long..

Largely been 4th choice over the years, with the brief sojourn to the heady heights of 3rd choice on occasion.

[boatshed bill]

His presence in the squad arguably helps us develop young CB’s because it allows us to send them out on loan to get experience, instead of hanging around the fringes of the squad covering that 4th choice role.

Can you give any examples over the last 8 years?

[TsarBomba]

Can you give any examples over the last 8 years?

Of the current squad, Jimmy Dunne and Bobby Thomas have been sent out on loan. Dunne for the past 3+ years.

[boatshed bill]

Of the current squad, Jimmy Dunne and Bobby Thomas have been sent out on loan. Dunne for the past 3+ years.

So it's one really, Bobby Thomas only came out of the dev squad last season so that one is tenuous at best
And to my other point, when has he ever challenged for a start?

[Jakubclaret]

Contractual obligations he willingly entered.

If we had a happy-o-meter, I dare say he might’ve scored higher had he sold to West Ham or Leicester, but equally he can’t expect the club to accept a deal that is not right for him & I think he’ll have enough respect for his team mates, manager and himself not to let any disappointment to impact his performances if a move doesn’t happen this year. The thought of a massive pay rise looming should get him through.

I’m not disputing any of that I never have, you can carry on with the pretence that he’s completely happy by all means if I don’t subscribe to the same delusion please don’t blame me, I must humbly apologise profusely.

[Jakubclaret]

Your entire UTC history summed up in seven words.

Does any particular reason exist why you continue to stalk & harass me on this forum despite me never initiating any approaches with you & me repeatedly blocking you & not wishing to maintain any communication with you, but bizarrely you seem to persist in a warped way.

[minnieclaret]

The only season Long wasn’t our back up CB, in the last 6, was the Gibson year. He has far more good games than bad and gets some totally undeserved **** on here.
If you are loyal you have no ambition, if you move on every season you’re a money grabbing mercenary.
Collins might be brilliant in the Championship he is unproven in the PL. Give the guy time to bed in to a new life, a new club and a new system.

[boatshed bill]

The only season Long wasn’t our back up CB, in the last 6, was the Gibson year. He has far more good games than bad and gets some totally undeserved **** on here.
If you are loyal you have no ambition, if you move on every season you’re a money grabbing mercenary.
Collins might be brilliant in the Championship he is unproven in the PL. Give the guy time to bed in to a new life, a new club and a new system.

Fair enough. It's your opinion to which you are welcome.
I prefer players to challenge those who have the first team shirt, what keeps them on their best form when no-one is pushing for their place?
Admittedly, the situation totally suits SD because he doesn't really do rotation.

[minnieclaret]

Tomorrows papers.
Football Insider. Burnley willing to listen to offers for James Tarkowski, West Ham interested.

Star. Real Madrid looking to sign Fofana from Leicester City.
This might bring them back into the bidding for Tarks being my thought on that

[NewClaret]

I’m not disputing any of that I never have, you can carry on with the pretence that he’s completely happy by all means if I don’t subscribe to the same delusion please don’t blame me, I must humbly apologise profusely.

We’re agreeing then aren’t we?

Probably not over the moon but equally professional enough to crack on and have a good final season, which is all we need really?

[Jakubclaret]

We’re agreeing then aren’t we?

Probably not over the moon but equally professional enough to crack on and have a good final season, which is all we need really?

Not really but I’m not arguing for arguments sake, like you correctly say he’s under contractual obligations which he entered into so must accept full responsibility as it’s personal decision which should be accountable, like I’ve said I favour the policy of cashing in whilst the value is at the highest & shrewdly replacing, the bigger picture being in attracting future players knowing that winding the contract down isn’t the burnley way & if opportunities present themselves early on as long as it’s beneficial both ways other ways exist. Keeping players which aren’t over the moon until death shouldn’t be actively encouraged, good evening.

[jojomk1]

https://www.footballinsider247.com/west ... ski-boost/

Dyche has supposedly said that he wanted Tarks to stay

Mr Pace may have different ideas

[NewClaret]

Not really but I’m not arguing for arguments sake, like you correctly say he’s under contractual obligations which he entered into so must accept full responsibility as it’s personal decision which should be accountable, like I’ve said I favour the policy of cashing in whilst the value is at the highest & shrewdly replacing, the bigger picture being in attracting future players knowing that winding the contract down isn’t the burnley way & if opportunities present themselves early on as long as it’s beneficial both ways other ways exist. Keeping players which aren’t over the moon until death shouldn’t be actively encouraged, good evening.

We agree on that too - certainly shouldn’t be encouraged or something that happens regularly. For me it’s more a case of a specific circumstance that we’ve got ourselves in (but shouldn’t have avoided).

The offers last summer were low in my view, particularly when you consider Ben White going for £45m this summer and Ake went for similar. Yes, Tarks is older, but has some of the best defensive stats in Europe and has done a few seasons in a row. And was only 27 then. I don’t think we should be accepting sub-standard offers, just so we can say we’ve done right by a player.

Also, I suspect Dyche didn’t sanction it because he knew the level of replacements we could attract/Garlick would sanction, wouldn’t be sufficient to keep us up.

This summer is a different story of course, but now we have the prospect of even lower bids, plus we have the Brentford % factor to deduct.

I just can’t see a club paying a sum that would make it worth our while when they can get the player for nothing in 12 months time. Nor can I really see Tarks wanting to accept half the salary he would likely attract if waited.

It’s a right mess on our behalf and the lesson learned for me is not to let players contracts run down so significantly. We need to be offering good players new contracts much sooner, remaining in control of the situation and selling when the time is right to fund other acquisitions, as you say. We’ve just not done that on this occasion.

On that point, Vydra is another one I’m worried about losing for nothing next summer and that would be an equal loss (potentially meaning we need to get a replacement lined up this summer too!!).

[claretandy]

Brentford making a move for Worrall at Forest, we get a mention too.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

We agree on that too - certainly shouldn’t be encouraged or something that happens regularly. For me it’s more a case of a specific circumstance that we’ve got ourselves in (but shouldn’t have avoided).

The offers last summer were low in my view, particularly when you consider Ben White going for £45m this summer and Ake went for similar. Yes, Tarks is older, but has some of the best defensive stats in Europe and has done a few seasons in a row. And was only 27 then. I don’t think we should be accepting sub-standard offers, just so we can say we’ve done right by a player.

Also, I suspect Dyche didn’t sanction it because he knew the level of replacements we could attract/Garlick would sanction, wouldn’t be sufficient to keep us up.

This summer is a different story of course, but now we have the prospect of even lower bids, plus we have the Brentford % factor to deduct.

I just can’t see a club paying a sum that would make it worth our while when they can get the player for nothing in 12 months time. Nor can I really see Tarks wanting to accept half the salary he would likely attract if waited.

It’s a right mess on our behalf and the lesson learned for me is not to let players contracts run down so significantly. We need to be offering good players new contracts much sooner, remaining in control of the situation and selling when the time is right to fund other acquisitions, as you say. We’ve just not done that on this occasion.

On that point, Vydra is another one I’m worried about losing for nothing next summer and that would be an equal loss (potentially meaning we need to get a replacement lined up this summer too!!).

If Pace hints we’re listening to offers and can stimulate a bidding war between say Leicester, West Ham and a.n.other (Leeds desparately need a CB IMHO) we might eke out 23m, 6m of which goes to Brentford I believe. We invest that in Phillips, and with the Gibson money we have 2 new younger centre halves (plus Ben) for only 4m outlay.

I can see a club paying that for JT rather than battling it out with 40 other clubs in 2022, especially Leicester if they have cash from Fofana. Madrid are just using the money they are saving from paying Ramos 15m a year at this point.

[burnmark]

Nixon reporting we are interested in Ciaran Dickson from Rangers. Fleetwood and Stanley wanting Adam Phillips on loan.

[jojomk1]

It’s a right mess on our behalf and the lesson learned for me is not to let players contracts run down so significantly. We need to be offering good players new contracts much sooner, remaining in control of the situation and selling when the time is right to fund other acquisitions, as you say. We’ve just not done that on this occasion.

On that point, Vydra is another one I’m worried about losing for nothing next summer and that would be an equal loss (potentially meaning we need to get a replacement lined up this summer too!!).

Add Ben Mee to that list

[KRBFC]

Nixon reporting we are interested in Ciaran Dickson from Rangers. Fleetwood and Stanley wanting Adam Phillips on loan.

Decent reviews from Rangers fans, albeit 6 months ago.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/11/29/r ... rformance/

[NewClaret]

Add Ben Mee to that list

[PremierLeagueClass]

The question is, are we confident that Collins and Phillips (or whoever it may be) can adequately fill Tarkowski’s boots and keep us up. If the answer is yes and there is no chance of him signing a new deal, we absolutely must sell him this summer.

I fear that he will be more inclined to stay and run his contract down now, negotiating a bigger deal with his new club.

Bring in Gary Cahill or Scott Dan for a year. Bring Collins through gradually so he’s ready to make the step up the following season. Sell Tarky for anything over 20 million.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Add Ben Mee to that list

Half of our squad is out of contract next season including Dyche

[jrgbfc]

Add Ben Mee to that list

Ben Mee won't get a better offer than us. 50k a week and club captain? Where is he going to go?

[Chester Perry]

I keep reading about the Gibson money being used for transfers this summer without any recognition that we probably ran up a loss last season and that the Gibson money will be needed to cover the revenue shortfall.

I keep stressing the need to look at the overall picture at the club - it will have budgeted for a modest loss last summer, hoping for football fortune but the spending and commitments made by the new owners will have changed that, as will the fall in commercial revenue - finishing in the budgeted TV position will not have added revenue from football fortune though the Gibson deal obviously did.

As I have posted up the thread, I don't think that will stop the club being punchy in the window this summer, Just that looking at transfer deals in Isolation of the clubs other costs or looking at Net Spend are not the right thing to do no matter how often the media like to push that agenda

[dermotdermot]

Brentford making a move for Worrall at Forest, we get a mention too.

Why would he want to join a club that will go straight back down?

[Gordaleman]

Why would he want to join a club that will go straight back down?

You're probaly right, but people said that about Leeds and were proved wrong.

[Goody1975]

Obviously if Tarkowski isn't sold this summer then he would prefer to go on a Bosman as that would see him benefit the most financially. If we are determined to keep him for another year, then the ideal scenario for us would be getting him to sign a 12 month extension with a fairly low release fee next summer.

I presume this was a similar situation to Kieran Trippier but think Tarkowski is set on maximising his worth asap and wouldn't entertain it.

[ClaretTony]

Nixon reporting we are interested in Ciaran Dickson from Rangers. Fleetwood and Stanley wanting Adam Phillips on loan.

I saw the Dickson info a couple of days ago. Not quite sure what’s happened but he’s one of a number of young players who signed new deals during last season who are now being ditched.

[Woodleyclaret]

Personally, I would sooner we signed Phillips from Liverpool as he has has a good loan abroad and a good season in the Premier league with Liverpool and £15m looks like a snip, although being greedy Liverpool there will no doubt be a big sell on.Watching Wales, Harry Wilson looks poor and I am happy we didnt get him last year.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I am assuming Dickson would be for the academy

[claretspice]

Personal view is that if Tarks is committed to leaving next summer on a free if not this summer, then we should be looking to make the break this summer.

As others have observed next summer already looks like a summer when a reasonable re-building job is required. Whilst I suspect Mee will ultimately sign a new contract, he's out of contract next summer so at risk of moving, and there's always a risk that a keeper of Pope's calibre could be in demand - and I can't see that you'd want to change even 2 of those 3 positions in one window, let alone risk having to change all 3.

Equally, apart from Mee, our 4 most critical players are probably Pope, Tarkowski, McNeil and Wood, and of those the one we are most at risk of losing is McNeil. I wouldn't have thought we'd want to end up having to replace both of them in a single window, and so you'd imagine one would have to go this summer and therefore you might as well cash in on Tarkowski whilst we still can.

Philips only really makes sense if we're selling Tarks. He wants first team football and is also right sided. So is Collins and so is Long, so that would leave us with a lot of right sided centre backs in reserve behind Tarks, and relatively little cover on the left.

He's a great player and whenever it comes the break is going to be hard to manage. But it's coming, so it's a question of manging the transition sensibly.

[Murger]

Struggling to understand our chasing Phillips at Liverpool. We can't afford to be having 5 centre backs on the books.

[ClaretMov]

Struggling to understand our chasing Phillips at Liverpool. We can't afford to be having 5 centre backs on the books.

Open your eyes Tarkowski is going

[ewanrob]

Personal view is that if Tarks is committed to leaving next summer on a free if not this summer, then we should be looking to make the break this summer.

As others have observed next summer already looks like a summer when a reasonable re-building job is required. Whilst I suspect Mee will ultimately sign a new contract, he's out of contract next summer so at risk of moving, and there's always a risk that a keeper of Pope's calibre could be in demand - and I can't see that you'd want to change even 2 of those 3 positions in one window, let alone risk having to change all 3.

Equally, apart from Mee, our 4 most critical players are probably Pope, Tarkowski, McNeil and Wood, and of those the one we are most at risk of losing is McNeil. I wouldn't have thought we'd want to end up having to replace both of them in a single window, and so you'd imagine one would have to go this summer and therefore you might as well cash in on Tarkowski whilst we still can.

Philips only really makes sense if we're selling Tarks. He wants first team football and is also right sided. So is Collins and so is Long, so that would leave us with a lot of right sided centre backs in reserve behind Tarks, and relatively little cover on the left.

He's a great player and whenever it comes the break is going to be hard to manage. But it's coming, so it's a question of manging the transition sensibly.

Wouldn't wish it on any player, but the risk he could get a serious injury whilst seeing out his contract, and at nearly 30 that could be catastrophic for him....its a hell of a gamble.

[dermotdermot]

Phillips is apparently ‘closing in’ on a move to Burnley so I would imagine that Tarkowski is going, whether he likes it or not.

[Zom Zom]

Phillips is apparently ‘closing in’ on a move to Burnley so I would imagine that Tarkowski is going, whether he likes it or not.

Where have you got that from bud?

[dermotdermot]

Several sources on Burnley Transfer News.

[BFC123]

Phillips story.

https://twitter.com/claretsreport/statu ... 52708?s=21

[Jakubclaret]

Phillips is apparently ‘closing in’ on a move to Burnley so I would imagine that Tarkowski is going, whether he likes it or not.

Don’t tell newclaret that the lad will be devastated, some of us have maintained all along that we aren’t signing defenders or going in for them to keep 1 that wants to go & refuse good money.