Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

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ClaretMov
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by ClaretMov » Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:40 am

Local cricketer wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:15 am
Leeds just signed a goalkeeper. Another one we have missed out on


??????????????????????????????? WHAT

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by ClaretMov » Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:46 am

tiger76 wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:39 am
No idea how reliable that account is, however I could well believe that wages are once again a stumbling block, can't we find ways around that, large signing on bonus for instance.

He's on 35k at Arsenal we could almost double that to 60k so I can't see wages being a problem it's the 20million fee Arsenal want

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:51 am

ClaretMov wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:46 am
He's on 35k at Arsenal we could almost double that to 60k so I can't see wages being a problem it's the 20million fee Arsenal want
Unless he wants substantially more than £60k. Or unless he wants his wage to be less performance weighted.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by ClaretMov » Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:58 am

I think we could work with an individual on wages but dealing with a club like Arsenal about the fee is a totally different matter

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:44 am

ClaretMov wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:46 am
He's on 35k at Arsenal we could almost double that to 60k so I can't see wages being a problem it's the 20million fee Arsenal want
I would be surprised if we are willing to go to 60k.

Isn’t Ben mee our highest on 50k?

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by NewClaret » Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:50 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:44 am
I would be surprised if we are willing to go to 60k.

Isn’t Ben mee our highest on 50k?
£55k.

To be honest though, I struggle to work out how our wage bill is £90m with our top players on £2.8m pa. Even if 10 were paid that much, which they’re not, it’s still only £28m, so I reckon their bonuses make it up to a lot more than £55k pw.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by claretspice » Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:55 am

This is educated guesswork, but I've suspected for some time that our limiting factor on wages may not be what we can pay now, but out insistence on reductions in the event of relegation

Maitland Niles probably doesn't have that in his Arsenal contract and as I understand it, far from every club in the top flight insists.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by NewClaret » Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:10 pm

claretspice wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:55 am
This is educated guesswork, but I've suspected for some time that our limiting factor on wages may not be what we can pay now, but out insistence on reductions in the event of relegation

Maitland Niles probably doesn't have that in his Arsenal contract and as I understand it, far from every club in the top flight insists.
Completely agree. I was going to post the same. I’d personally prefer we continue to insist on this protection but equally if we want to sign players like AMN we’ll perhaps have to compromise in some way.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by DCWat » Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:18 pm

Rightly or wrongly, my opinion of someone not prepared to accept such a clause would reduce somewhat.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:20 pm

DCWat wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:18 pm
Rightly or wrongly, my opinion of someone not prepared to accept such a clause would reduce somewhat.
Not sure I’d be too keen to sign a contract that could leave me on half of my basic salary should my colleagues underperform.

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Re: Summer 2021 TrInansfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by taio » Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:21 pm

In my mind we must stick to the principle of insisting on contractual clauses that mitigate the effects of relegation. Perhaps even more so now.
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by taio » Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:22 pm

DCWat wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:18 pm
Rightly or wrongly, my opinion of someone not prepared to accept such a clause would reduce somewhat.
I feel the same way. The club needs to stick to its guns.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by claretandy » Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:26 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:20 pm
Not sure I’d be too keen to sign a contract that could leave me on half of my basic salary should my colleagues underperform.
Works both ways, player could insist on a low relegation release clause.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:29 pm

I’m 100% in agreement with structuring our contracts in such a way. Not only does it give us financial stability, it seems to add motivation to the players.

But I wouldn’t judge the character of a player for not wanting to have such uncertainty in their contract. Particularly as the type of player we need to sign to improve us will quite likely not have such a clause.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by Targetman » Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:36 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:20 pm
Not sure I’d be too keen to sign a contract that could leave me on half of my basic salary should my colleagues underperform.
Do you think he would be happy to accept any bonuses that might come his way if the team performs well but he possibly didn't play very well?

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by DCWat » Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:36 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:20 pm
Not sure I’d be too keen to sign a contract that could leave me on half of my basic salary should my colleagues underperform.
Yeah, I can understand that perspective and I know earnings are relative. It’s not like they’d be on the breadline or not have other opportunities should the worst happen - particularly if they’re that confident in their own worth.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:40 pm

Targetman wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:36 pm
Do you think he would be happy to accept any bonuses that might come his way if the team performs well but he possibly didn't play very well?
I certainly would. I would obviously want my employment contract to be weighted more in my favour than my employers’. We don’t know if this is the situation with AMN in any case.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:40 pm

DCWat wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:36 pm
Yeah, I can understand that perspective and I know earnings are relative. It’s not like they’d be on the breadline or not have other opportunities should the worst happen - particularly if they’re that confident in their own worth.
Of course not, but if there are two offers on the table it’s not hard to imagine a player taking the one with a less severe relegation penalty.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by DCWat » Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:51 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:40 pm
Of course not, but if there are two offers on the table it’s not hard to imagine a player taking the one with a less severe relegation penalty.
I’d assumed that most outside of those pretty much guaranteed safety would have relegation clauses. I think it was Spice’s post further up that suggested this might not be the case.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by tiger76 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:07 pm

DCWat wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:51 pm
I’d assumed that most outside of those pretty much guaranteed safety would have relegation clauses. I think it was Spice’s post further up that suggested this might not be the case.
Well if some clubs for whom relegation is a possibility don't insist on relegation clauses they're very silly in my view, and in the event of dropping to the Championship, you can see why clubs quickly run into trouble when their income dramatically decreases, but they're still obliged to honour their contracts.

I'm glad BFC insist on inserting relegation clauses, yes it might mean we miss out on the odd target, but for the long term health of the club it's the sensible policy.
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:43 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:50 am
£55k.

To be honest though, I struggle to work out how our wage bill is £90m with our top players on £2.8m pa. Even if 10 were paid that much, which they’re not, it’s still only £28m, so I reckon their bonuses make it up to a lot more than £55k pw.
our wage bill covers circa 250 permanent employees and probably anything up to 500+ casual staff not just the football squad, people tend to forget about the non football side
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by NewClaret » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:18 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:43 pm
our wage bill covers circa 250 permanent employees and probably anything up to 500+ casual staff not just the football squad, people tend to forget about the non football side
I get that, but if you said the 250 averaged £40k pa (as an average and setting aside the senior coaches/management) you get £10m. Add 500 casuals at £8k pa average and you’re at £4m. So £14m total.

So I still struggle to fathom how we get to £90m without some of our top players being on a lot more than £55k pw.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:35 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:18 pm
I get that, but if you said the 250 averaged £40k pa (as an average and setting aside the senior coaches/management) you get £10m. Add 500 casuals at £8k pa average and you’re at £4m. So £14m total.

So I still struggle to fathom how we get to £90m without some of our top players being on a lot more than £55k pw.
Dyche said in the first lockdown that bonuses made up around 30% of the wage bill for the football staff

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by Paul Waine » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:36 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:43 pm
our wage bill covers circa 250 permanent employees and probably anything up to 500+ casual staff not just the football squad, people tend to forget about the non football side
Hi CP, what do you expect is the average wage of the non-footballing staff? If we assume it is comparable to the average national wage, let's say that it is £30,000 per annum for 200 permanent staff (assuming 50 of perm staff are football staff), then we get £6,000,000. For the casual staff, let's assume they are on minimum wage (which I think compares with the security at Wembley for the Euros), so, let's say 500 staff at £10/hour and 5 hours per match day - no more than 25 of them a season gives us £625,000. Add those two figures together £6,625,000 and add ERS NIC at 13.8% = £914,250. So, total cost of non-footballing staff (ball park, but not "kicking the ball in the park") is £7,539,250. Let's call it £7.5 million cost of all the non-footballing staff. So, the footballing staff cost the club £94.0m less £7.5m = £86.5 million. And, that includes the u23s and other age groups/academy - plus, of course, Sean Dyche and all the coaching staff.

UTC

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Re: Summer 2021 TrInansfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by KRBFC » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:41 pm

taio wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:21 pm
In my mind we must stick to the principle of insisting on contractual clauses that mitigate the effects of relegation. Perhaps even more so now.
I wonder if we are sticking with the relegation clauses with ALK, certainly hope so.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by Paul Waine » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:44 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:18 pm
I get that, but if you said the 250 averaged £40k pa (as an average and setting aside the senior coaches/management) you get £10m. Add 500 casuals at £8k pa average and you’re at £4m. So £14m total.

So I still struggle to fathom how we get to £90m without some of our top players being on a lot more than £55k pw.
Hi New, I see we made different estimates of the average wages of the 250 permanent staff - and, I've assumed that 50 of these 250 are footballing staff (maybe I'm wrong on this, I don't know). I've also assumed only minimum wage for all casuals (inflated to £10/hr) and allowed 5 hours per home game. I'm sure some of these assumptions aren't correct.

The big question re the senior squad is how much is their base wage and how much is bonus? Then, there's the context that the wages are spoken about. I think it often includes bonuses, though when Sean Dyche mentions wages he's more often speaking about a base number, aiming to maintain the psychology and togetherness of the team - and the value of the bonus as an incentive to match day performances.

UTC

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Re: Summer 2021 TrInansfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by Paul Waine » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:46 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:41 pm
I wonder if we are sticking with the relegation clauses with ALK, certainly hope so.
I'd expect more and more clubs are adopting relegation clauses. I'm sure that's what they mean when they refer to copying the Burnley model. If a football regulator ever gets going it will be one of the first things on the list - it's all about sustainable finances in the game.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:59 pm

DCWat wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:51 pm
I’d assumed that most outside of those pretty much guaranteed safety would have relegation clauses. I think it was Spice’s post further up that suggested this might not be the case.
When wolves dropped down the league's they were paying Jamie O'Hara £40k a week in league one.
Sunderland the same with Rodwell

Large number of clubs don't bother and it actually gives them an advantage in signing players over clubs that do have them for obvious reasons.

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Re: Summer 2021 TrInansfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:00 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:46 pm
I'd expect more and more clubs are adopting relegation clauses. I'm sure that's what they mean when they refer to copying the Burnley model. If a football regulator ever gets going it will be one of the first things on the list - it's all about sustainable finances in the game.
Personally I believe they should be mandatory for every club in the professional leagues.
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by minnieclaret » Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:27 pm

Aston Villa have reached an agreement to sign Leon Bailey from Bayer Leverkusen.
This should turn their heads from Dwight, hopefully.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:32 pm

Rumoured that a Bayer Leverkusen scout was at our game today but not sure who he was watching

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by Grumps » Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:37 pm

minnieclaret wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:27 pm
Aston Villa have reached an agreement to sign Leon Bailey from Bayer Leverkusen.
This should turn their heads from Dwight, hopefully.
Villa was never really the issue for me. I think Everton will come in with a bid, and try and dump Kenny on us

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by ksrclaret » Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:38 pm

McNeil is having a good pre season and we cannot afford to let him go whatever the circumstances this summer.
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:40 pm

sell Dwight and we are ******
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by taio » Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:43 pm

ksrclaret wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:38 pm
McNeil is having a good pre season and we cannot afford to let him go whatever the circumstances this summer.
Agree - simply not for sale. We shouldn't be getting rid of anyone, although there could be a case for selling Tarkowski if the right offer came in and the club was confident of bringing in a suitable replacement.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by NewClaret » Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:48 pm

Grumps wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:37 pm
Villa was never really the issue for me. I think Everton will come in with a bid, and try and dump Kenny on us
Very much doubt we’d be getting Dwight fit for Everton if we thought he were going to leave.

Kenny was dire for Celtic apparently so hope that’s put us off (if we were ever interested).

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by NewClaret » Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:01 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:44 pm
Hi New, I see we made different estimates of the average wages of the 250 permanent staff - and, I've assumed that 50 of these 250 are footballing staff (maybe I'm wrong on this, I don't know). I've also assumed only minimum wage for all casuals (inflated to £10/hr) and allowed 5 hours per home game. I'm sure some of these assumptions aren't correct.

The big question re the senior squad is how much is their base wage and how much is bonus? Then, there's the context that the wages are spoken about. I think it often includes bonuses, though when Sean Dyche mentions wages he's more often speaking about a base number, aiming to maintain the psychology and togetherness of the team - and the value of the bonus as an incentive to match day performances.

UTC
Hi PW,

Good to see you back posting.

Yes, it’s all guesswork really. I went slightly higher but was assuming inclusive of employers NI, etc. Either way, while I take CP’s point that the figure isn’t just players salaries, I find it hard to fathom how the vast majority isn’t and so I think the bonus element takes our players salaries to much higher levels than we sometimes think.

Exciting times!!
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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by joey13 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:46 pm

Grealish to City deal done :o

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by burnley007 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:07 pm

If we sold Dwight for £50m, how would we replace him? We are really struggling to make any signings atm.

Dangerous period...

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by Taffy on the wing » Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:17 pm

burnley007 wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:07 pm
If we sold Dwight for £50m, how would we replace him? We are really struggling to make any signings atm.

Dangerous period...
There will now follow 4 pages pontificating on how to spend the 50M!
Throw in a few personal guessing contests & it could reach 5............ALL IS DROSS!

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by gawthorpe_view » Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:18 pm

Villa targeting Todd Cantwell as a Grealish replacement.
Makes sense if true. £25 million.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by NewClaret » Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:23 pm

I’d have imagined Buendia and Bailey are enough?

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by Spijed » Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:23 pm

joey13 wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:46 pm
Grealish to City deal done :o
Where's that? All the press are reporting that Man City have made a £100 million bid.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by ClaretAndJew » Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:36 pm

It's not done yet, nothing official anywhere.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by joey13 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:34 pm

Spijed wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:23 pm
Where's that? All the press are reporting that Man City have made a £100 million bid.
Villa mate in the know

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:43 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:46 am
I'd still rather have Lookman
Nixon linking him with us on loan but it’s a big loan fee and big salary

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by JarrowClaret » Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:07 am

I just read Nixon’s post about Lookman, he was hard working and one of Fulham’s best players last season. That said I’m struggling to see him fitting into our structure but do like him so wouldn’t be upset about signing him.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by ClaretAndJew » Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:13 am

Would we even use him if he's coming on loan?

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by DCWat » Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:21 am

JarrowClaret wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:07 am
I just read Nixon’s post about Lookman, he was hard working and one of Fulham’s best players last season. That said I’m struggling to see him fitting into our structure but do like him so wouldn’t be upset about signing him.
Feels a bit like one of those near to the bottom of a short list.

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Re: Summer 2021 Transfer Window Rumours - Links - Discussion

Post by minnieclaret » Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:21 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:13 am
Would we even use him if he's coming on loan?
He plays left and right so perfect cover for Dwight and JBG, who I expect to start.

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