Give me the money !!!

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
jojomk1
Posts: 4734
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:20 am
Been Liked: 836 times
Has Liked: 574 times

Give me the money !!!

Post by jojomk1 » Tue May 11, 2021 9:39 am

Now that another year in the Premiership is confirmed I hope the club are putting together a sizeable financial package to support the manager this summer
A vital win last night though not pretty, and the second half showed just how frail our midfield can be if put under any sort of pressure
Minimum requirements
All fee for Tarks if he goes
All Gibson money from Norwich
Min £20m of new money from the owners, no matter how they can get their hands on it

January was not the time to shout that they were willing to back the manager but this summer is

Paul Waine
Posts: 9824
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
Been Liked: 2339 times
Has Liked: 3155 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Paul Waine » Tue May 11, 2021 9:45 am

jojomk1 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:39 am
Now that another year in the Premiership is confirmed I hope the club are putting together a sizeable financial package to support the manager this summer
A vital win last night though not pretty, and the second half showed just how frail our midfield can be if put under any sort of pressure
Minimum requirements
All fee for Tarks if he goes
All Gibson money from Norwich
Min £20m of new money from the owners, no matter how they can get their hands on it

January was not the time to shout that they were willing to back the manager but this summer is
Hi jojomk1, Brentford are due 27% of the difference between the fee BFC paid Brentford for Tarkowski and whatever fee BFC get when he is sold.

Other than that, don't you think that Alan Pace and his colleagues know what their plans were when they bought the club?

UTC

s6t9a2f3f
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:29 pm
Been Liked: 82 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by s6t9a2f3f » Tue May 11, 2021 9:46 am

Great points, and worryingly what is the state of the club if he gets no backing ? the new owners are supposed to make a difference and the honeymoon period is over, time to stop talking the talk and walking the walk.

claretonthecoast1882
Posts: 10021
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Been Liked: 4130 times
Has Liked: 57 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue May 11, 2021 9:47 am

s6t9a2f3f wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:46 am
Great points, and worryingly what is the state of the club if he gets no backing ? the new owners are supposed to make a difference and the honeymoon period is over, time to stop talking the talk and walking the walk.
:D :D

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14557
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3433 times
Has Liked: 6338 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue May 11, 2021 9:58 am

The general consensus is a new manager needs 3-4 transfer windows to properly get his feet under the table and ideology in place.

Would appear our new owners only got one in the eyes of some fans and that was January :lol: :roll:

So if Tarks was to go and after paying off Brentford we were left with say £20 million, you want that, £8 million of Gibson money AND another £20 million on top?

So nearly £50 million for Dyche to spend this summer?

What do we need?
2 CB's to replace Tarks and Dunne.
A right winger with pace and trickery to replace Brady.
Another young winger as back up.
Maybe a creative CM?

Everyone else is tied down aren't they?

A replacement for Dunne - do we have anyone at the club already?
Same with a young back up winger?
If not, then we need to improve our U23 recruitment policy.

We don't need a massive recruitment drive this summer, just a smarter one.

jojomk1
Posts: 4734
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:20 am
Been Liked: 836 times
Has Liked: 574 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by jojomk1 » Tue May 11, 2021 10:03 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:45 am
Hi jojomk1, Brentford are due 27% of the difference between the fee BFC paid Brentford for Tarkowski and whatever fee BFC get when he is sold.

Other than that, don't you think that Alan Pace and his colleagues know what their plans were when they bought the club?

UTC
I am aware of the sell on clause that Brentford have on Tarks, just saying we have to give SD all of the money we get

As for Alan Pace knowing what his plans were when they bought the club let's not forget one of his fist comments was that it would make no difference to his plans if Burnley were relegated !!

So money doesn't come into it ? and are you suggesting Pace would have given SD the same transfer funds had we been relegated because I doubt that

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14557
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3433 times
Has Liked: 6338 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue May 11, 2021 10:06 am

jojomk1 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 10:03 am
I am aware of the sell on clause that Brentford have on Tarks, just saying we have to give SD all of the money we get

As for Alan Pace knowing what his plans were when they bought the club let's not forget one of his fist comments was that it would make no difference to his plans if Burnley were relegated !!

So money doesn't come into it ? and are you suggesting Pace would have given SD the same transfer funds had we been relegated because I doubt that
Their plan is to grow the club as a business overall.
We are behind a number of championship clubs when it comes to turnover because we've had the wrong people doing certain jobs who weren't proactive or forward thinking enough.
Being relegated doesn't change their plan to grow the club.
This user liked this post: Paul Waine

Woodleyclaret
Posts: 6872
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:25 pm
Been Liked: 1465 times
Has Liked: 1838 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Woodleyclaret » Tue May 11, 2021 10:17 am

First signings Sean on a vastly improved contract and Tarks
We dont want him to leave as hes a vital cog in our machine and I feel can be pursued to stay especially if we get more quality in so improving our Europa league qualifying credentials.

dsr
Posts: 15082
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4529 times
Has Liked: 2231 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by dsr » Tue May 11, 2021 10:35 am

A right winger with pace and trickery, if we sign one, probably won't cost much. Mind you, it's more likely that there won't be one available.

The thing about wingers with pace and trickery who can cross accurately, is that everybody wants one and few people have them. So when a good one is available in the lower leagues or abroad, clubs with lots more money than us will outbid us. Hence, we won't get a winger everyone knows about.

The only way we will get a good winger is by signing someone no-one else wants at present, and if we can find such a man, he will be relatively cheap. But as I say, he might not exist.

warksclaret
Posts: 6586
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:13 pm
Been Liked: 1675 times
Has Liked: 753 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by warksclaret » Tue May 11, 2021 10:46 am

Now we know that we remain in the PL for another season, the tapping up of players should have started at 9.00am this morning. Lets not talk about how hard the window is and how the sale of McCormack (4 years ago), has inflated prices. SD has secured us another season of circa £150m so lets support him, and get some great additions to our squad, at the same time getting rid of deadwood. Its time for certain people within the club to step up, just like SD has been doing for almost a decade
These 2 users liked this post: jojomk1 Whitgord

jojomk1
Posts: 4734
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:20 am
Been Liked: 836 times
Has Liked: 574 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by jojomk1 » Tue May 11, 2021 10:48 am

dsr wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 10:35 am
A right winger with pace and trickery, if we sign one, probably won't cost much. Mind you, it's more likely that there won't be one available.

The thing about wingers with pace and trickery who can cross accurately, is that everybody wants one and few people have them. So when a good one is available in the lower leagues or abroad, clubs with lots more money than us will outbid us. Hence, we won't get a winger everyone knows about.

The only way we will get a good winger is by signing someone no-one else wants at present, and if we can find such a man, he will be relatively cheap. But as I say, he might not exist.
So

Signing this winger probably won't cost much

But everyone wants one, so the clubs with lots of money will outbid us

So we need to find one that nobody else wants but he might not exist

You need to apply for Mr Riggs job ;)

dsr
Posts: 15082
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4529 times
Has Liked: 2231 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by dsr » Tue May 11, 2021 11:23 am

jojomk1 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 10:48 am
So

Signing this winger probably won't cost much

But everyone wants one, so the clubs with lots of money will outbid us

So we need to find one that nobody else wants but he might not exist

You need to apply for Mr Riggs job ;)
I suspect Mr. Riggs knows that already.

NewClaret
Posts: 13172
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
Been Liked: 3020 times
Has Liked: 3737 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by NewClaret » Tue May 11, 2021 11:32 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:58 am

What do we need?
2 CB's to replace Tarks and Dunne.
A right winger with pace and trickery to replace Brady.
Another young winger as back up.
Maybe a creative CM?

We don't need a massive recruitment drive this summer, just a smarter one.
Agree with this. I think a massive recruitment drive may actually be very counter-productive to the the team.

I would say our biggest signing this season would be an extension for Tarks. If not, I'd keep him, given the sell-on fee. I agree it is not ideal but then nor is the situation we have been left in squad-wise.

I'm happy with Long as cover for RCB (yes, he's no Tarks but has never let us down) and so I'd look for a LCB to cover Mee first and foremost, maybe with a younger RCB coming in to develop in Tarks' final season.

I'd blow the budget on a top quality, pacey, tricky RW. If we had a threat on the right side, we'd be a pretty balanced and good quality Prem side imo. Yes our midfield will get the run-around when playing in a 4 against some of the better sides, but we'd be more than a match for the majority. Dream signing Pereira at WBA.

Playmaker would be brilliant but I think we can wait a season as long as we get the RW sorted.

CrosspoolClarets
Posts: 5202
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:00 pm
Been Liked: 1615 times
Has Liked: 391 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Tue May 11, 2021 11:42 am

More and more clubs are likely to have relegation clauses in new contracts so with Burnley being more or less guaranteed to stay up under Dyche that has to be attractive on a financial level, we may not pay as much as some but there would be less risk for a player.

Currently we have held onto turnover more than many other clubs in the pandemic, interest rates are at record lows and we have players potentially being sold at a big price. So all of these factors make it seem the right time for big investments for either facilities or younger but high quality players with a resale value.

Zlatan
Posts: 5458
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:06 pm
Been Liked: 2229 times
Has Liked: 5739 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Zlatan » Tue May 11, 2021 11:59 am

*Show

Dark Cloud
Posts: 6581
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:03 am
Been Liked: 1980 times
Has Liked: 3293 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Dark Cloud » Tue May 11, 2021 12:01 pm

I think the new owners would have made two plans when they completed the takeover in January.The first involved the event of us staying in the PL and the second involved the possibility that we didn't. Now that it's clear we will be staying put, they will start to implement the first plan and that will involve a number of first team outgoings I'd suggest and a fair few incomings. However I would be surprised and tbh disappointed if those incomings involved paying utterly stupid money to clubs clearly having our trousers down and chucking daft wages at some of the overrated and over paid layabouts who we come across week in week out poncing about playing (allegedly!) for other teams. Signing one player (Stephens) from the bargain basement really wasn't acceptable and almost proved a very costly mistake, but suddenly going to the other extremes and throwing loads of money at the issues will also be a mistake. I want us to get back to doing what we've done under SD for the best part of 8 years now. Find the next Tarks, the next JBG, the next Michael Keane ,the next Barnes, the next Pope or Heaton, the next Taylor et al and yes we'll have to pay rather more for them this time around, but we won't be paying a king's ransom and they are the kind of signings who have made us what we are and taken us where we are and they are the kind of signings which will have what it takes to move us forward and make next season a rather more enjoyable one. Spend by all means as we desperately need it, but spend sensibly and wisely, the Burnley way!!
These 2 users liked this post: gandhisflipflop mill hill claret

KRBFC
Posts: 18011
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3783 times
Has Liked: 1069 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by KRBFC » Tue May 11, 2021 12:02 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:58 am
The general consensus is a new manager needs 3-4 transfer windows to properly get his feet under the table and ideology in place.

Would appear our new owners only got one in the eyes of some fans and that was January :lol: :roll:

So if Tarks was to go and after paying off Brentford we were left with say £20 million, you want that, £8 million of Gibson money AND another £20 million on top?

So nearly £50 million for Dyche to spend this summer?

What do we need?
2 CB's to replace Tarks and Dunne.
A right winger with pace and trickery to replace Brady.
Another young winger as back up.
Maybe a creative CM?

Everyone else is tied down aren't they?

A replacement for Dunne - do we have anyone at the club already?
Same with a young back up winger?
If not, then we need to improve our U23 recruitment policy.

We don't need a massive recruitment drive this summer, just a smarter one.
an upgrade at right back and a new centre forward would be great too, if we're talking about skimping through another season I suppose Lowton and Bardsley can do though.

NewClaret
Posts: 13172
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
Been Liked: 3020 times
Has Liked: 3737 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by NewClaret » Tue May 11, 2021 12:12 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:02 pm
an upgrade at right back and a new centre forward would be great too, if we're talking about skimping through another season I suppose Lowton and Bardsley can do though.
I think Lowton is massively underrated. On form, he's brilliant and he's becoming more consistent. He's dipped in and out of form this season from great to average but so has Charlie Taylor tbf.

One of the benefits of lockdown is I've seen a lot more of other teams and its fair to say that very few players remain consistent throughout the full season and also that Lowts compares very favourably to other RB's in the Prem.

I think we are fine there for next year but it would be brilliant if Tripps returned in 2022 when OOC.

Chester Perry
Posts: 19113
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3094 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 11, 2021 12:31 pm

People seem to be forgetting that the owners have still to

- find £70m+ to complete the sale transaction for the club (we do not know the time periods on these instalments, though informed consensus suggests a reasonably tight schedule)
- service the interest on the debt they have already taken out - varying estimates of between £5m and £7m a year to do that (that is two players wages for us as an aside) - it is much more if they defer the first interest payment and or want to include paying down the principal sum
- pay their own salaries, when Checketts arrives in the summer that could mean we are paying 4 directors Executive Salaries (if these salaries are to be paid it is likely they will add up to 1+ players wages)
- pay for the infrastructure investments that are required to generate new revenues
- find a new shirt sponsor that ideally exceeds the £7.5m a year deal that has apparently collapsed with LoveBet
- find sponsors for the 13 total advertising boards in front of the Jimmy Mac, Bob Lord and Cricket Field stands (remembering that in front of the Bob Lord the double stack has been removed so actually more than 13 sponsors have been lost) that are currently carrying the club logo and have been since February

there is probably much more as well
Last edited by Chester Perry on Tue May 11, 2021 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ric_C
Posts: 2044
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:22 am
Been Liked: 740 times
Has Liked: 122 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Ric_C » Tue May 11, 2021 12:39 pm

Agree with most of the comments

Hopefully we keep our prized assets. I'm resigned to losing Tarks however, so this is on the proviso that this happens

High priority:
CB to replace Tarks
RM to replace Brady

Medium Priority:
Extra CM/AM who has a bit more guile than our current two
RB to replace Bardsley
CB to replace Dunne (young)
Maybe an extra wide player as I'm not convinced with JBG and his injury record.
Extra striker to replace either Jay or Barnes

Wood and Vydra have shown we play better when we have a bit more skill up front, so maybe letting either Jay or Barnes go and bringing in another striker who can stretch the play as Vyds does would be a bonus.

Think we should move on Bardsley and maybe Jay or Barnes, and maybe Dale Stephens, but it's not a biggie if they all stay.

Biggest bonuses to the end of this season have been the re-emergence of Wood, the return of a fully fit Jack Cork, Vydra showing what he can do with a run of games and the reliability of Pieters.

DCWat
Posts: 9283
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:04 am
Been Liked: 4127 times
Has Liked: 3594 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by DCWat » Tue May 11, 2021 12:42 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 10:06 am
Their plan is to grow the club as a business overall.
We are behind a number of championship clubs when it comes to turnover because we've had the wrong people doing certain jobs who weren't proactive or forward thinking enough.
Being relegated doesn't change their plan to grow the club.
Which (I’m asking because I don’t know) Championship clubs are we behind in terms of turnover, who are similar in size to us?

bf2k
Posts: 1435
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:52 pm
Been Liked: 336 times
Has Liked: 1516 times
Location: Burnley

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by bf2k » Tue May 11, 2021 12:57 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:31 pm
People seem to be forgetting that the owners have still to

- find £70m+ to complete the sale transaction for the club (we do not know the time periods on these instalments, though informed consensus suggests a reasonably tight schedule)
- service the interest on the debt they have already taken out - varying estimates of between £5m and 37m a year to do that (that is two players wages for us as an aside) - it is much more if they defer the first interest payment and or want to include paying down the principal sum
- pay their own salaries, when Checketts arrives in the summer that could mean we are paying 4 directors Executive Salaries (if these salaries are to be paid it is likely they will add up to 1+ players wages)
- pay for the infrastructure investments that are required to generate new revenues
- find a new shirt sponsor that ideally exceeds the £7.5m a year deal that has apparently collapsed with LoveBet
- find sponsors for the 13 total advertising boards in front of the Jimmy Mac, Bob Lord and Cricket Field stands (remembering that in front of the Bob Lord the double stack has been removed so actually more than 13 sponsors have been lost) that are currently carrying the club logo and have been since February

there is probably much more as well
You don't half know how to p*ss on people's chips Chester :D

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 11038
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1557 times
Has Liked: 359 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue May 11, 2021 1:00 pm

DCWat wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:42 pm
Which (I’m asking because I don’t know) Championship clubs are we behind in terms of turnover, who are similar in size to us?
I might be wrong but arnt we one of the best clubs in the country in terms of turnover? Swear we are actually higher than most people realise, I’m sure Chester can confirm but I thought we were maybe 10th in country?

Chester Perry
Posts: 19113
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3094 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 11, 2021 1:04 pm

bf2k wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:57 pm
You don't half know how to p*ss on people's chips Chester :D
I just like to have a firm footing

ClaretMov
Posts: 2499
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:13 pm
Been Liked: 843 times
Has Liked: 822 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by ClaretMov » Tue May 11, 2021 1:19 pm

Surely even with only counting the money from the Gibson sale 8 million, the Tarkowski sale minus the sell on fee let's say 20 million sale and minus 27% on the 15 million profit making around 16 million and the 6 to 8 million coming in from the clubs returning from the championship we must have at least 30 million for transfers and thats without touching what the club brings in for staying in the prem and a new sponsor deal etc.

We can't cry poor yet again for another season and keep flogging the good luck donkey because sooner or later we will be undoing all the good work done by the previous owners and Dyche.

I'd go all out for Wallace at Millwall first of all before any other players are brought in.

NewClaret
Posts: 13172
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
Been Liked: 3020 times
Has Liked: 3737 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by NewClaret » Tue May 11, 2021 2:05 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:31 pm
People seem to be forgetting that the owners have still to

- find £70m+ to complete the sale transaction for the club (we do not know the time periods on these instalments, though informed consensus suggests a reasonably tight schedule)
- service the interest on the debt they have already taken out - varying estimates of between £5m and £7m a year to do that (that is two players wages for us as an aside) - it is much more if they defer the first interest payment and or want to include paying down the principal sum
- pay their own salaries, when Checketts arrives in the summer that could mean we are paying 4 directors Executive Salaries (if these salaries are to be paid it is likely they will add up to 1+ players wages)
- pay for the infrastructure investments that are required to generate new revenues
- find a new shirt sponsor that ideally exceeds the £7.5m a year deal that has apparently collapsed with LoveBet
- find sponsors for the 13 total advertising boards in front of the Jimmy Mac, Bob Lord and Cricket Field stands (remembering that in front of the Bob Lord the double stack has been removed so actually more than 13 sponsors have been lost) that are currently carrying the club logo and have been since February

there is probably much more as well
All true, but you'd expect they have a plan for all of these things and being able to invest in the team? Although exactly what it is is anyone's guess at the moment.

If they don't, they'll lose Dyche and then a hell of a lot of money on their investment.

I think there might be a few (positive) surprises on the advertising front.

Chester Perry
Posts: 19113
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3094 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 11, 2021 2:14 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 2:05 pm
All true, but you'd expect they have a plan for all of these things and being able to invest in the team? Although exactly what it is is anyone's guess at the moment.

If they don't, they'll lose Dyche and then a hell of a lot of money on their investment.

I think there might be a few (positive) surprises on the advertising front.
I am not saying it is impossible, for all my misgivings about the method of takeover I have been positive about the capabilities of the new board, it is just there are a number of hurdles to overcome for serious spending on the squad to be feasible in the short term, and that may also require the manager to be more flexible in his outlook both in terms of departures and arrivals - I suspect the real battle internally this summer will be over Dwight.

I join you in the hopeful perspective re sponsorship - I think Manchester United supporters may have really helped on that front

Jakubclaret
Posts: 9378
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
Been Liked: 1173 times
Has Liked: 774 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue May 11, 2021 2:26 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 2:05 pm
All true, but you'd expect they have a plan for all of these things and being able to invest in the team? Although exactly what it is is anyone's guess at the moment.

If they don't, they'll lose Dyche and then a hell of a lot of money on their investment.

I think there might be a few (positive) surprises on the advertising front.
We will only lose dyche when a better opportunity presents itself & as bad as certain things have appeared throughout dyche duration the closest link to that as been some unsubstantiated links regarding Everton, dyche is a top quality manager at what he does & all the BFC supporters/fans realise that, but the reality is it doesn’t matter how much we all rate dyche, the wider footballing world doesn’t share that same feeling he isn’t wanted generally speaking & doesn’t have the appeal, don’t ask me why but he doesn’t.

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14557
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3433 times
Has Liked: 6338 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue May 11, 2021 2:52 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:00 pm
I might be wrong but arnt we one of the best clubs in the country in terms of turnover? Swear we are actually higher than most people realise, I’m sure Chester can confirm but I thought we were maybe 10th in country?
I was specifically talking commercial turnover, an area we've failed to take advantage of by being in the PL.
Its only been a couple of years since we over took Derby's commercial turnover amount and we aren't that far ahead even now.


Leeds were 2.5 times our commercial turnover in 2018 and they were in the championship.
Yes I know its Leeds the biggest club in the world etc etc etc but they knew how to take advantage of the media hype surrounding them after a generation of being outside the PL.

Its an area the new owners will be focusing on because its one of the few areas where we can make some real financial gains.

Norwich 2019-20 commercial income was higher than ours...

Steve-Harpers-perm
Posts: 5738
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:52 am
Been Liked: 1866 times
Has Liked: 834 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Tue May 11, 2021 3:02 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:04 pm
I just like to have a firm footing
Thanks Mike!

Vegas Claret
Posts: 30228
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
Been Liked: 10903 times
Has Liked: 5582 times
Location: clue is in the title

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue May 11, 2021 3:09 pm

I think there is a massive difference between a gamble and a calculated risk, I'd like to see us have a little more bravery doing a calculated risk, Dyche has proven beyond any doubt that he can keep us in the division

Steve-Harpers-perm
Posts: 5738
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:52 am
Been Liked: 1866 times
Has Liked: 834 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Tue May 11, 2021 3:12 pm

We probably should do away with incoming transfers altogether in case we go bust.

Chester Perry
Posts: 19113
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3094 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 11, 2021 3:23 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:09 pm
I think there is a massive difference between a gamble and a calculated risk, I'd like to see us have a little more bravery doing a calculated risk, Dyche has proven beyond any doubt that he can keep us in the division
Every season at our club is a calculated risk, the club have just taken different ones to what many would appear to want them too. Understanding that and interpreting why those choices have been made, while acknowledging that we will never have the detail that feeds that decision making process should only lead us to ask have they done so with what they believe are the club's best interests at heart (that would be the only sensible and mature approach, given our level of ownership). - if the answer to that is no then we can be justified in criticising them, I haven't seen anything that suggests the decisions have been taken without the clubs best interests at heart. That is not to say I would do the same thing just that it is not my decision to make

matucana
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:11 pm
Been Liked: 28 times
Has Liked: 2 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by matucana » Tue May 11, 2021 3:27 pm

Currently there are outstanding expenditure commitments that previously the Club did not incur.
The main two items are the final payments to MG and JB for the acquisition of the Club and the annual interest on the investments/loans at high interest rates. Executive salaries for Board members will also have to be met where previously services were given freely. These new expenditure commitments could account for £30 million+ which would equate to approximately 25% of PL annual turnover. Major new investment will be needed to support team development in the short term and then you enter the murky world of FFP.

Chester Perry
Posts: 19113
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3094 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 11, 2021 3:31 pm

matucana wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:27 pm
Currently there are outstanding expenditure commitments that previously the Club did not incur.
The main two items are the final payments to MG and JB for the acquisition of the Club and the annual interest on the investments/loans at high interest rates. Executive salaries for Board members will also have to be met where previously services were given freely. These new expenditure commitments could account for £30 million+ which would equate to approximately 25% of PL annual turnover. Major new investment will be needed to support team development in the short term and then you enter the murky world of FFP.
we are good on the FFP front - it would take Oligarch/state backed levels of spending to put us at risk on that front - by that I mean a £120m loss in the 2021-22 accounts and we would be ok for the following season even after 2 years of Covid decimated accounts

Vegas Claret
Posts: 30228
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
Been Liked: 10903 times
Has Liked: 5582 times
Location: clue is in the title

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue May 11, 2021 3:42 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:23 pm
Every season at our club is a calculated risk, the club have just taken different ones to what many would appear to want them too. Understanding that and interpreting why those choices have been made, while acknowledging that we will never have the detail that feeds that decision making process should only lead us to ask have they done so with what they believe are the club's best interests at heart (that would be the only sensible and mature approach, given our level of ownership). - if the answer to that is no then we can be justified in criticising them, I haven't seen anything that suggests the decisions have been taken without the clubs best interests at heart. That is not to say I would do the same thing just that it is not my decision to make
as someone who trawled the lower leagues in the 80's I want to see the club stay at the top for as long as possible, it's only through fighting against the odds we have got here. At some point that could run out and it will have to be helped by better investment. Now, obviously that starts with the scouting system and through our previous owners having any sort of scout was pretty much pointless as the funds were never given to buy players. I really hope we see a change of approach and believe we will to a sensible degree. Given who is supposed to be coming on to the board and their experience I am hopeful they will blow the previous regime out of the water and give Dyche a few more tools in his armory to fight with. I don't think anyone can say giving Dyche 1 million quid to sign Dale Stephens is having the best interests of the club at heart

Chester Perry
Posts: 19113
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3094 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 11, 2021 3:50 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:42 pm
as someone who trawled the lower leagues in the 80's I want to see the club stay at the top for as long as possible, it's only through fighting against the odds we have got here. At some point that could run out and it will have to be helped by better investment. Now, obviously that starts with the scouting system and through our previous owners having any sort of scout was pretty much pointless as the funds were never given to buy players. I really hope we see a change of approach and believe we will to a sensible degree. Given who is supposed to be coming on to the board and their experience I am hopeful they will blow the previous regime out of the water and give Dyche a few more tools in his armory to fight with. I don't think anyone can say giving Dyche 1 million quid to sign Dale Stephens is having the best interests of the club at heart
There was plenty of talk in the summer window of Dyche being given options but turning them down, he has his targets, we just would not meet the valuations their clubs put on them - which is hardly surprising given some of the numbers being bandied around - it doesn't help that Dyche keeps going back to clubs that think they are better than us and expect us to bail them out of their self inflicted financial challenges. we have als seen more Premier League clubs exercise owners deep pockets to spend in the EFL, the prices are ridiculous for players un proven at our level and will likely spend much of their first season on the bench at best in our team

KRBFC
Posts: 18011
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3783 times
Has Liked: 1069 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by KRBFC » Tue May 11, 2021 3:57 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:31 pm
People seem to be forgetting that the owners have still to

- find £70m+ to complete the sale transaction for the club (we do not know the time periods on these instalments, though informed consensus suggests a reasonably tight schedule)
- service the interest on the debt they have already taken out - varying estimates of between £5m and £7m a year to do that (that is two players wages for us as an aside) - it is much more if they defer the first interest payment and or want to include paying down the principal sum
- pay their own salaries, when Checketts arrives in the summer that could mean we are paying 4 directors Executive Salaries (if these salaries are to be paid it is likely they will add up to 1+ players wages)
- pay for the infrastructure investments that are required to generate new revenues
- find a new shirt sponsor that ideally exceeds the £7.5m a year deal that has apparently collapsed with LoveBet
- find sponsors for the 13 total advertising boards in front of the Jimmy Mac, Bob Lord and Cricket Field stands (remembering that in front of the Bob Lord the double stack has been removed so actually more than 13 sponsors have been lost) that are currently carrying the club logo and have been since February

there is probably much more as well
So why was it such ridiculous for me to suggest we could've signed X (£70-80M player) and been in the same position? reminder, I NEVER said the new owners/old owners have taken anything yet I never got an apology or suitable explanation. Either you misunderstood my initial point or you think my point of being in a financially worse position in the market under the current owners is outrageous and deserved the initial response you gave.

Vegas Claret
Posts: 30228
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
Been Liked: 10903 times
Has Liked: 5582 times
Location: clue is in the title

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue May 11, 2021 3:57 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:50 pm
There was plenty of talk in the summer window of Dyche being given options but turning them down, he has his targets, we just would not meet the valuations their clubs put on them - which is hardly surprising given some of the numbers being bandied around - it doesn't help that Dyche keeps going back to clubs that think they are better than us and expect us to bail them out of their self inflicted financial challenges. we have als seen more Premier League clubs exercise owners deep pockets to spend in the EFL, the prices are ridiculous
"Dyche being given options but turning them down, he has his targets"

Rightly so, he's the manager, he's the one turning water into wine every season.

On the prices yes and no
(this is an example based on no knowledge of us actually wanting the player) are we saying for example that Dyche didn't want to sign Ivan Toney for 5 million quid or are we saying that the previous board wouldn't sanction it - given the fact they gave him 1 million quid I know what my money would be on. The players are there and deals can be had but I genuinely believe Garlick was pretty spineless when it came to showing any bravery.

This one I believe is 100% correct, Dyche wanted Tarks BEFORE he went to Brentford. He asked the board for 300K to buy him from Oldham and they said no he was too expensive. Gutless

Chester Perry
Posts: 19113
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3094 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 11, 2021 4:03 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:57 pm
So why was it such ridiculous for me to suggest we could've signed X (£70-80M player) and been in the same position? reminder, I NEVER said the new owners/old owners have taken anything yet I never got an apology or suitable explanation. Either you misunderstood my initial point or you think my point of being in a financially worse position in the market under the current owners is outrageous and deserved the initial response you gave.
go back to the thread - I answered that in some detail, you just tried to change the argument if memory serves

KRBFC
Posts: 18011
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3783 times
Has Liked: 1069 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by KRBFC » Tue May 11, 2021 4:28 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 4:03 pm
go back to the thread - I answered that in some detail, you just tried to change the argument if memory serves
I changed the player for arguments sake, the point remained. I never ever said anybody has TAKEN anything, I made that quite clear, still no apology or explanation. It's very easy to miss the point, it happens all the time but you accused me of something illegal, I think I'm entitled to some form of apology or acceptance I never said those things you accused me of.

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14557
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3433 times
Has Liked: 6338 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue May 11, 2021 5:29 pm

Libellous, not illegal.

NewClaret
Posts: 13172
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
Been Liked: 3020 times
Has Liked: 3737 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by NewClaret » Tue May 11, 2021 6:17 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 2:14 pm
I am not saying it is impossible, for all my misgivings about the method of takeover I have been positive about the capabilities of the new board, it is just there are a number of hurdles to overcome for serious spending on the squad to be feasible in the short term, and that may also require the manager to be more flexible in his outlook both in terms of departures and arrivals - I suspect the real battle internally this summer will be over Dwight.

I join you in the hopeful perspective re sponsorship - I think Manchester United supporters may have really helped on that front
I think someone posted that money will be available but it’s likely to be beyond this summer that the purse strings get loosened. That poster may know no more than me, but it does sound more realistic/probable. I don’t want to spend loads, just one quality RW and maybe a free transfer/loan or two to plug the gaps.

I think too many changes would be disruptive and I’d rather add one quality player each season than have major overhauls of mediocrity.

As for the United fans comment, I seriously hope you’re right. I’d be delighted with that and it would be a major coup.

NewClaret
Posts: 13172
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
Been Liked: 3020 times
Has Liked: 3737 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by NewClaret » Tue May 11, 2021 6:19 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:57 pm

This one I believe is 100% correct, Dyche wanted Tarks BEFORE he went to Brentford. He asked the board for 300K to buy him from Oldham and they said no he was too expensive. Gutless
Dyche said last night that if he wrote a book it would contain some unbelievable stories! I will be first in line for his autobiography for sure!!

Chester Perry
Posts: 19113
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3094 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 11, 2021 6:30 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 6:17 pm
I think someone posted that money will be available but it’s likely to be beyond this summer that the purse strings get loosened. That poster may know no more than me, but it does sound more realistic/probable. I don’t want to spend loads, just one quality RW and maybe a free transfer/loan or two to plug the gaps.

I think too many changes would be disruptive and I’d rather add one quality player each season than have major overhauls of mediocrity.

As for the United fans comment, I seriously hope you’re right. I’d be delighted with that and it would be a major coup.
That might have been me

Chester Perry
Posts: 19113
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3094 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 11, 2021 6:31 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 4:28 pm
I changed the player for arguments sake, the point remained. I never ever said anybody has TAKEN anything, I made that quite clear, still no apology or explanation. It's very easy to miss the point, it happens all the time but you accused me of something illegal, I think I'm entitled to some form of apology or acceptance I never said those things you accused me of.
I took that then and still do as a direct reference to your sparring partner GIADJ

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14557
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3433 times
Has Liked: 6338 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue May 11, 2021 6:32 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 3:57 pm
"Dyche being given options but turning them down, he has his targets"

Rightly so, he's the manager, he's the one turning water into wine every season.

On the prices yes and no
(this is an example based on no knowledge of us actually wanting the player) are we saying for example that Dyche didn't want to sign Ivan Toney for 5 million quid or are we saying that the previous board wouldn't sanction it - given the fact they gave him 1 million quid I know what my money would be on. The players are there and deals can be had but I genuinely believe Garlick was pretty spineless when it came to showing any bravery.

This one I believe is 100% correct, Dyche wanted Tarks BEFORE he went to Brentford. He asked the board for 300K to buy him from Oldham and they said no he was too expensive. Gutless
Do you have a link to something to support the claim about Tarks?

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14557
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3433 times
Has Liked: 6338 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue May 11, 2021 6:34 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 6:31 pm
I took that then and still do as a direct reference to your sparring partner GIADJ
I don't even know what he's on about tbh, he spouts so much libellous garbage on here about our former owners I don't even bother responding to him anymore about a lot of stuff.

If I do, one if his chums rocks up and whines about how I've spoken to him, it's apparently a bigger issue than what he's said.

KRBFC
Posts: 18011
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3783 times
Has Liked: 1069 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by KRBFC » Tue May 11, 2021 6:35 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 2:52 pm
I was specifically talking commercial turnover, an area we've failed to take advantage of by being in the PL.
Its only been a couple of years since we over took Derby's commercial turnover amount and we aren't that far ahead even now.


Leeds were 2.5 times our commercial turnover in 2018 and they were in the championship.
Yes I know its Leeds the biggest club in the world etc etc etc but they knew how to take advantage of the media hype surrounding them after a generation of being outside the PL.

Its an area the new owners will be focusing on because its one of the few areas where we can make some real financial gains.

Norwich 2019-20 commercial income was higher than ours...
I do wonder how much foreign signings play a part, like the global benefit to Man United of signing Ji Sung Park, I'd imagine it's huge for Man United but how does that translate further down? it's really difficult to track how effective it is but I wonder if that's something we try and I'm not against it.

Like I would guess Wolves have a significant Portuguese fanbase for all the international players they've had recently, but do they really?

Chester Perry
Posts: 19113
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
Been Liked: 3094 times
Has Liked: 481 times

Re: Give me the money !!!

Post by Chester Perry » Tue May 11, 2021 6:39 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 6:34 pm
I don't even know what he's on about tbh, he spouts so much libellous garbage on here about our former owners I don't even bother responding to him anymore about a lot of stuff.

If I do, one if his chums rocks up and whines about how I've spoken to him, it's apparently a bigger issue than what he's said.
your approach doesn't help, as I have pointed out before. I love your enthusiasm, but you can get quite aggressive when agitated or frustrated particularly if people don't accept your perspective, and that can happen quite quickly on occasion. Part of me suspects at times they are just toying with you, which does not reflect well on either side.

Post Reply