Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 3:38 pm

Have you got a link to the video? Really hope that’s not the case.

How do you copy a link from a Twitter video? I tried but couldn’t get it to work!! Sure it’s very simple but not for me obviously

https://twitter.com/craiglufc77/status/ ... 87170?s=21

It was simple!!

DCWat wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 3:42 pm

How do you copy a link from a Twitter video? I tried but couldn’t get it to work!! Sure it’s very simple but not for me obviously

Just copy the URL from the address bar and paste it into the body of the message I think.

FCBurnley wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 3:38 pm

From what I saw Aliiski feigned injury which angered McNeil. He leant over Alioski and at least said something to him. Alioski spit at somebody when he got up the pulled his tongue out and made the face at McNeil. He then made the face again at the Burnley bench. Woan responded verbally to him. That is what was shown on NBCSN

I think spit flew out of Mcneils mouth when he leaned over, didn’t look like an intentional spit

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 3:44 pm

I think spit flew out of Mcneils mouth when he leaned over, didn’t look like an intentional spit

That’s how I see it. McNeil doing what Tarky does almost every game and shouts down at the player feigning injury, and unfortunately some spit comes out. I really don’t see that as an intentional spit, unlike the offensive gesture which clearly was intended

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 3:44 pm

I think spit flew out of Mcneils mouth when he leaned over, didn’t look like an intentional spit

You could well be right - very inconclusive from that video.

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 2:37 pm

Maybe I swing both ways

Not non binary then
Haha

If McNeil has said something wrong or spat at him (I dont believe this) then there's no excuse but if Alioskis response did have some racist intent then thats a different level of wrong that needs stamping on.

Stayingup wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 3:47 pm

Not non binary then
Haha

I checked on google and apparently I swing 47 ways

Burnley1989 wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 3:14 pm

Oooo give over, racism? The worlds gone mad, he was just being immature.

Yes immature and demonstrating the brain power of many a footballer. Good job they're good with their feet. I say that as there are calls for heading to be banned!!!

Zlatan wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 3:47 pm

That’s how I see it. McNeil doing what Tarky does almost every game and shouts down at the player feigning injury, and unfortunately some spit comes out. I really don’t see that as an intentional spit, unlike the offensive gesture which clearly was intended

I don’t believe anyone would be so blatantly racist, I don’t even know who he did the gesture at, was it not towards the bench? It’s a poor decision to make the gesture, I definitely wouldn’t say it was clearly intended to be offensive though, more silly than anything. Most normal people wouldn’t be offended by that gesture but it is 2021 so who even knows

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 3:54 pm

I don’t believe anyone would be so blatantly racist, I don’t even know who he did the gesture at, was it not towards the bench? It’s a poor decision to make the gesture, I definitely wouldn’t say it was clearly intended to be offensive though, more silly than anything. Most normal people wouldn’t be offended by that gesture but it is 2021 so who even knows

That’s the point though, making any gesture like that clearly is intended to cause offence. The question is whether it is deemed a racist offfence, and that’s where I’m not so sure personally. Just a grown man, pulling a face like all responsible grown men do on live TV. Stupid, yes. Racist, I’m not so sure.

Zlatan wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 3:58 pm

That’s the point though, making any gesture like that clearly is intended to cause offence. The question is whether it is deemed a racist offfence, and that’s where I’m not so sure personally. Just a grown man, pulling a face like all responsible grown men do on live TV. Stupid, yes. Racist, I’m not so sure.

Both players could be punished, nobody can say each players intention, id just let it go.

Didn't watch because it was obvious what would happen...and it's what always happens once we have made the season safe. No one to blame, just what we do.
Put the season to bed and starting planning for the next one.

Zlatan wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 3:58 pm

That’s the point though, making any gesture like that clearly is intended to cause offence. The question is whether it is deemed a racist offfence, and that’s where I’m not so sure personally. Just a grown man, pulling a face like all responsible grown men do on live TV. Stupid, yes. Racist, I’m not so sure.

Its very similar to the Jay-Rod incident with Bong

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 4:15 pm

Its very similar to the Jay-Rod incident with Bong

No, it really isn’t

Zlatan wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 4:16 pm

No, it really isn’t

"just a grown man, pulling a face like all responsible grown men do on live TV. Stupid, yes. Racist, I’m not so sure."

Doesn't a gesture of wafting your hand or holding your nose at someone to suggest they smell fall in to this category?

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 4:20 pm

"just a grown man, pulling a face like all responsible grown men do on live TV. Stupid, yes. Racist, I’m not so sure."

Doesn't a gesture of wafting your hand or holding your nose at someone to suggest they smell fall in to this category?

Leeds fan defending a Leeds player. Fair enough. Complaint to referee made by Burnley player according to SD interview.

FCBurnley wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 4:31 pm

Leeds fan defending a Leeds player. Fair enough. Complaint to referee made by Burnley player according to SD interview.

Im not defending him one bit. If it comes out the gesture is a monkey gesture then I want action to be taken as I make no secret I feel our society and football is still plagued with racism and if we cant stop it on the pitch then we have no chance at all.

My challenge to Zlatlan was that ignoring the potential racist elements then sticking your tongue out and pulling a face is no worse than wafting your nose at someone.

I wondered if it was a Maori gesture towards Wood. Looked a bit like facial gestures from the Hakka?

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 3:01 pm

He didnt make any monkey gestures and it looked like the face he pulled was at the Burnley bench. I think the incident is similar to when that player gestured in front of Mourinho and got him to react and that is what was probably discussed and noted by the ref.

If something comes out after to suggest it was something more sinister then as always I hope its dealt with strongly but its a bit rich coming from you who is normally one of the first to play down racism and defend those accused of it





Edit: As per posts since that second face is similar to what is seen as a monkey face so Im interested to hear the refs report or what our club has to say. If it was a racist gesture then we really need to start taking tough action

A bit rich coming from me? Don’t worry I will accept your apology now.

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 4:37 pm

My challenge to Zlatlan was that ignoring the potential racist elements then sticking your tongue out and pulling a face is no worse than wafting your nose at someone.

Telling a bloke they smell and then being accused of being racist is massively different to what happened today. Today your player was childish, and also potentially being overtly racist. I’ll leave it to the authorities to deal with it. I’m not going to debate what we just don’t know.

Burnley Ace wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 5:01 pm

A bit rich coming from me? Don’t worry I will accept your apology now.

No apology you have a history of jumping to the defence of any accusations of racism and wanting concrete proof.

Zlatan wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 5:05 pm

Telling a bloke they smell and then being accused of being racist is massively different to what happened today. Today your player was childish, and also potentially being overtly racist. I’ll leave it to the authorities to deal with it. I’m not going to debate what we just don’t know.

Sorry let me be clear. You have argued that just pulling a face like Alioski did was offensive and intended to cause offence and should be condemned on its own and it was a poor decision to make it even if it wasnt intended to be racist.

In that sense I think it is exactly like what Jay did as by your definition Jays actions would be intended to cause offence and a poor decision.

The reaction of what happened next in both events is another discussion as is whether their is a racist element to what Alioski did. In that sense the two events are very different

But my point to you is that sticking your tongue out at someone and pulling a face is no worse or childish or stupid or unnecessary then wafting your nose at someone to suggest they stink.

Zlatan wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 5:05 pm

Telling a bloke they smell and then being accused of being racist is massively different to what happened today. Today your player was childish, and also potentially being overtly racist. I’ll leave it to the authorities to deal with it. I’m not going to debate what we just don’t know.

He also very clearly cheated to gain a free kick....

Any see why it's being reported by Sean

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 5:25 pm

Any see why it's being reported by Sean

Go to the match thread and you will see what it’s all about.

I took it to be terribly childish and not nice to look at but, having read through these posts and seen the google evidence, I now have no doubt about it being a monkey gesture.

I was the same as you dermot though I do think there is still room for doubt. The one thing that still makes me think it was just childish is that if you watch his hands he's moving his fingers up and down like a child does when they are making a "naaaa naaaa" gesture.

The monkey gesture seems to be more putting your hands still against the ears to make a monkey like face

https://twitter.com/i/status/1393552490394800133

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 5:24 pm

Sorry let me be clear.

Then please do... instead of bringing a totally unrelated incident into this to enable you to defend a Leeds player who feigned injury and made a childish potentially racist gesture.

In your expert opinion as a Leeds fan and possible Burnley supporter/appreciator (not sure which) Was it a racist gesture or not?

~Looks like a monkey gesture to me.

Throw the book at McNeil for spitting and throw the book at Alioski for the monkey gesture.

Zlatan wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 5:49 pm

Then please do... instead of bringing a totally unrelated incident into this to enable you to defend a Leeds player who feigned injury and made a childish potentially racist gesture.

In your expert opinion as a Leeds fan and possible Burnley supporter/appreciator (not sure which) Was it a racist gesture or not?

Calm down. I wasnt trying to defend the Leeds player I just though the stance you were taking in your discussion with KRBFC was a bit absurd. Again you were saying regardless of whether the gesture was racist or not is was still offensive and wrong.

I think sticking your tongue out and making a silly face at someone on a football pitch is a nothing incident and to make my point I used the Jay incident where he pulled a face at someone.

Now if you were being consistent then you would have to agree that Jay pulling a face at someone is no worse in isolation than Alisoki pulling a face at someone. I have tried being reasonable with you on this but if you still cant grasp my point then fair enough i'll give up.

On your last question then im not sure. I'll wait until the details of what the people who witnessed it first hand say but as ive mentioned above at first I saw it as a childish act but after what you and Rileys posted I am now not so sure.

My comment above with the Twitter video still makes me side on it being childish but the people involved will have a pretty good idea what the intention really was so I'll wait for that info.

I really hope it does turn out to be something and nothing like the Jay furore because if it was a racist gesture then it just makes me more sad about the world we are living in

Edit: I know you dont really mean it but whether I am a Burnley fan or a Leeds fan makes no difference to how I view racism. I would hope that stands for everyone and im sure that would be the case for you. No need for them comments towards me.

BurnleyFC wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 5:57 pm

Throw the book at McNeil for spitting and throw the book at Alioski for the monkey gesture.

No idea whether there was any racist intent from Alioski. It looked like he was mocking McNeill’s appearance though. But I’m pretty sure McNeill doesn’t deliberately spit at him.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 6:02 pm

No idea whether there was any racist intent from Alioski. It looked like he was mocking McNeill’s appearance though. But I’m pretty sure McNeill doesn’t deliberately spit at him.

I really hope that’s the case but it looked like a rather large amount of spit from the video doing the rounds on Twitter.

As for Alioski, he can hardly mock anyone’s appearance while knocking about with bleached blonde hair.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 6:02 pm

No idea whether there was any racist intent from Alioski. It looked like he was mocking McNeill’s appearance though. But I’m pretty sure McNeill doesn’t deliberately spit at him.

That’s what I assumed when I saw it.

I've seen the video. I don't believe McNeil deliberately spat at him. Nor do I believe Alioski was being racist.

As recommended in the Stephen Lawrence Inquiry Report, the definition of a racist incident is "any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person." So by the letter of the law, if McNeil or any other witness to the incident saw it as racist - it is! Whether the Premier League will follow up on this is another matter.

I wonder what words were exchanged between the players. Seems a strange reaction from McNeill unless he was convinced that it was racially motivated.

Handbags and snowflakes.

Move on ffs.

Nothing in either.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 3:39 pm

Because VAR can't be used for changing corners to goal kicks

I thought it was there to highlight wrongs. Besides off sides they can look at players that may have committed bad challenges etc but not incorrect corners. Several corners today from Leeds clearly showed the ball overhang was not on the line, if they’d have scored from one of them then var should look at that. I really would like to see it scrapped.

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 3:49 pm

I checked on google and apparently I swing 47 ways

Oh thats nothing. Slightly off topic. Apparently here are more than 100 gender identities.

Stayingup wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 6:20 pm

Oh thats nothing. Slightly off topic. Apparently here are more than 100 gender identities.

The more the merrier I say, its only a social construct and nothing to be scared of

One thing that has come out of this incident is the difficulty in deciding what is and is not racism.
I am pushing on in years and I admit to not always understanding what determines racism. Some actions are obvious and some are not. Words that were acceptable in my youth are no longer. Times have changed for sure. Some for the better and some not

If McNeil has said there's been a racially-motivated incident, a lot of people in this thread are absolutely falling over themselves to deny the experience of our only black player for reasons I don't really understand.

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 5:10 pm

No apology you have a history of jumping to the defence of any accusations of racism and wanting concrete proof.

So I wait for proof to support an accusation whereas you just jump on the bandwagon and are content to brand someone racist without any evidence. I’m sure there’s a name for people like you.

Burnley Ace wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 7:07 pm

So I wait for proof to support an accusation whereas you just jump on the bandwagon and are content to brand someone racist without any evidence. I’m sure there’s a name for people like you.

You know what I do owe you an apology. I got you mixed up with FCBurnley who was going on about how much trouble Aloski would be in.

Though your comments to me now are a little contradictory

brexit "Aliovski - that was an eastern European monkey chant"
krbfc "No it wasn't. You may want to re-think what you type, accusing him of racism online isn't smart."
You to krfbc "It would appear that the incident will be included in the Refs report. Perhaps you can be an expert witness?"

So you are accusing me of jumping on the bandwagon to brand someone racist (when I havent accused anyone of being racist) whist siding with brexit branding Alioski of being racist without any proof to support it. You'll have to tell me how this makes sense.

Anyhow I still apologise for my earlier responses to you as they were not fair to the posts you had made on this

Now we know how Wolves felt when we bummed them 4-0 at home the other week

beddie wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 6:18 pm

I thought it was there to highlight wrongs. Besides off sides they can look at players that may have committed bad challenges etc but not incorrect corners. Several corners today from Leeds clearly showed the ball overhang was not on the line, if they’d have scored from one of them then var should look at that. I really would like to see it scrapped.

I’d like to see VAR scrapped but I definitely don’t want it extending to look at corners

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sat May 15, 2021 8:20 pm

I’d like to see VAR scrapped but I definitely don’t want it extending to look at corners

The one technology that works is goal line technology, which could easily be expanded to cover the pitch perimeter. It wouldn’t determine ‘last touch’ but it would work fine for the ball being in or out of play.

As for VAR, waste of everyone’s time and takes away from the game rather than adds to it.