Ashley Barnes arrested

[evensteadiereddie]

absolutely not but that's not my argument. You (and others) seem to be saying that just because something is legal it is morally ok and I'm saying it isn't.

Good for you.

[boatshed bill]

No struggle whatsoever. I choose not to drink alcohol when driving, because I know living with the knowledge it COULD have been different would screw me up.

There may be a legal limit, but just because an individual is not legally responsible for the aftermath, neither can anyone guarantee they weren’t. I choose not to take the risk.

I'd never recover mentally if I killed someone in a motor accident whilst stone cold sober.

[Zlatan]

Think that’s a smiley . I just don’t get why some are using Barnes stupidity to criticise others that drink and drive responsibly . You are entitled by law to do that

There is absolutely no way to drink and then drive responsibly they are mutually exclusive. Any amount of alcohol will affect your ability to drive ergo you cannot be responsible if you have any amount of drink and then drive.

[Elizabeth]

copying this from my reply to eddie -

"You (and others) seem to be saying that just because something is legal it is morally ok and I'm saying it isn't."

It's that simple really

Ok Vegas , I respect your morals but don’t expect me to concede it’s immoral to drink and drive within the law

[evensteadiereddie]

Again, bobinho,that's fine except that you're either responsible for something illegally or you're not.
You choose not to drink and drive , that's entirely your choice.
I'm happy to take a different one.

[evensteadiereddie]

There is absolutely no way to drink and then drive responsibly they are mutually exclusive. Any amount of alcohol will affect your ability to drive ergo you cannot be responsible if you have any amount of drink and then drive.

That's convincing....

[Vegas Claret]

Ok Vegas , I respect your morals but don’t expect me to concede it’s immoral to drink and drive within the law

Cheating on your husband/wife is perfectly legal, still makes you a complete **** if you do it though !

[Zlatan]

That's convincing....

How convincing do I need to be?

Do I need to tell you about a school friend who had half a lager and got on his motorbike, lost control going downhill into a curry house window. The result of which killed him and seriously injured several guests in the restaurant. After the investigation it was deemed he was below the legal limit, but the level of alcohol in his blood was enough to mean he went a little faster than normal (regular route for him) and that was the cause of what happened. That convincing enough?

[Jakubclaret]

Some people are better/safer drivers whilst under the influence of drink/drugs because it makes nervous drivers relaxed & less likely to make mistakes/accidents, if it can be legally/medically proven that’s the case certain people should be able to moderately indulge providing it’s done on the basis to make the roads safer, I’d prefer relaxed people on the roads than people shaking with nervousness.

[Elizabeth]

That scenario was included in the Ten Commandments though Vegas unlike drinking and driving within the law

[KRBFC]

There is absolutely no way to drink and then drive responsibly they are mutually exclusive. Any amount of alcohol will affect your ability to drive ergo you cannot be responsible if you have any amount of drink and then drive.

You must be either 12 years old or have never touched alcohol in your life if you genuinely believe that.

[Vegas Claret]

That scenario was included in the Ten Commandments though Vegas unlike drinking and driving within the law

nonsense, I can list hundred of examples of banks, governments etc etc doing what might have been legal but highly immoral.

You're either fine with being immoral or you're not, good to know those who are fine with it.

That's all I'm going to say on it, no point arguing the toss on it because the thread will get pulled.

[evensteadiereddie]

Vegas, it's important to remember that your moral code is the one you've chosen to follow. To cast judgement on those who choose to live differently, yet quite legally -

"so if you drank right to the edge of the legal limit and rammed your car into a family on the pavement you'd be cool with it ? Good to know the lack of respect for other human beings is live and well on this board."

- especially using this pretty clumsy example of moral blackmail , is particularly wrong. You make your choice, I make mine.

[Vegas Claret]

Vegas, it's important to remember that your moral code is the one you've chosen to follow. To cast judgement on those who choose to live differently, yet quite legally -

"so if you drank right to the edge of the legal limit and rammed your car into a family on the pavement you'd be cool with it ? Good to know the lack of respect for other human beings is live and well on this board."

- especially using this pretty clumsy example of moral blackmail , is particularly wrong. You make your choice, I make mine.

not really, I apply my morals across the board on everything not just to those things that suite. Like I said, not prepared to ruin the the thread by arguing, we'll just agree to disagree

[evensteadiereddie]

How convincing do I need to be?

Do I need to tell you about a school friend who had half a lager and got on his motorbike, lost control going downhill into a curry house window. The result of which killed him and seriously injured several guests in the restaurant. After the investigation it was deemed he was below the legal limit, but the level of alcohol in his blood was enough to mean he went a little faster than normal (regular route for him) and that was the cause of what happened. That convincing enough?

Hardly. A sad tale, sure enough, cautionary even , but hardly applicable to the vast majority of drinkers/drivers, is it ?
In my last year of teaching, one of our Year 11 lads begged his mate to let him have a ride on his motor bike. The fool let him, the Year 11 lad panicked, lost control and hit a lamppost head on and died.
No alcohol involved at all..................

[Zlatan]

You must be either 12 years old or have never touched alcohol in your life if you genuinely believe that.

I’m approaching 50 and I could easily have been classed an alcoholic in my late teens

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I’m approaching 50 and I could easily have been classed an alcoholic in my late teens

Late starter then with drinking, early teens I was most definitely a binge drinker.

[boatshed bill]

Before all this Covid malarky the mrs and I would occasionally drive to a country pub on a Sunday, have a drink and possibly something to eat and eventually drive home. I don't feel that I did anything "immoral". I don't accept that my ability to control a motor car was impaired either.

[evensteadiereddie]

So, Zlat, it's alcohol in general that you're opposed to - not specifically the drink/driving issue.
That would explain your stance.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Before all this Covid malarky the mrs and I would occasionally drive to a country pub on a Sunday, have a drink and possibly something to eat and eventually drive home. I don't feel that I did anything "immoral". I don't accept that my ability to control a motor car was impaired either.

Eating food helps negate the alcohol in the system, when the police check you, they ask when you last ate.

[ecc]

I don't know why but I was convinced a certain person would be involved in an argument on here. Virtually all of that person's contributions involve bickering.

[boatshed bill]

Eating food helps negate the alcohol in the system, when the police check you, they ask when you last ate.

yes, though I haven't been stopped for about 25 years. We don't always eat, but take plenty of time over our single drink.
Let's face it, if drinking and then driving was made absolutely illegal there'd hardly be a country pub in existence.

[Zlatan]

Late starter then with drinking, early teens I was most definitely a binge drinker.

Mate, I was drinking all sorts from the age of 12 and then doing stupid stuff. I think I’m probably well qualified to say that drinking and stupid stuff is a bad idea. Hardly drink now, I prefer to have all my faculties working as they should

[box_of_frogs]

Some people are better/safer drivers whilst under the influence of drink/drugs because it makes nervous drivers relaxed & less likely to make mistakes/accidents, if it can be legally/medically proven that’s the case certain people should be able to moderately indulge providing it’s done on the basis to make the roads safer, I’d prefer relaxed people on the roads than people shaking with nervousness.

Or perhaps they shouldn’t drive?

Having dealt with numerous lads at work who’ve fallen foul of similar DD arrests, it’s fairly simple.

Go to court. Be a man and plead guilty. Take the fine and ban. Take a bit of club punishment. Be a man and accept you may or may not be sold.

The same applies to women and non differentiating people. Do the crime, do the time.

[evensteadiereddie]

Eating food helps negate the alcohol in the system, when the police check you, they ask when you last ate.

Indeed, two pints, max, of ordinary strength beer and a meal and you're good to go.
For what it's worth, I never touch spirits and drive - you just can't judge the alcohol amount and effect.

[Grumps]

Before all this Covid malarky the mrs and I would occasionally drive to a country pub on a Sunday, have a drink and possibly something to eat and eventually drive home. I don't feel that I did anything "immoral". I don't accept that my ability to control a motor car was impaired either.

You wouldn't believe the number of people who thought the same
Some got away with it
Some got disqualified
Some had accidents
Some died
Some killed someone...... All thought they were OK to drive after a drink

[evensteadiereddie]

I don't know why but I was convinced a certain person would be involved in an argument on here. Virtually all of that person's contributions involve bickering.

Yup, thank God for that...........I think the taking the knee issue on the thread that got pulled earlier finished him off.

[evensteadiereddie]

You wouldn't believe the number of people who thought the same
Some got away with it
Some got disqualified
Some had accidents
Some died
Some killed someone...... All thought they were OK to drive after a drink

And millions of others were quite correct to think the same..................

[boatshed bill]

You wouldn't believe the number of people who thought the same
Some got away with it
Some got disqualified
Some had accidents
Some died
Some killed someone...... All thought they were OK to drive after a drink

It's not "getting away with it" if you only have one drink
You wouldn't get disqualified after one drink (as long as you take your time)
Sober people are proven to have more accidents than drunk people
People die
Sober drivers kill more people than drunk drivers..fact

[Jakubclaret]

Or perhaps they shouldn’t drive?

Having dealt with numerous lads at work who’ve fallen foul of similar DD arrests, it’s fairly simple.

Go to court. Be a man and plead guilty. Take the fine and ban. Take a bit of club punishment. Be a man and accept you may or may not be sold.

The same applies to women and non differentiating people. Do the crime, do the time.

Millions of people suffer from anxiety through no fault of their own, are you suggesting people with anxiety or suffering lack of confidence should be deprived from the privilege of driving, the roads are dangerous with sober drivers taking unnecessary risks when people are relaxed you can make decisions correctly I think. I’d prefer somebody on the road who’s had a pint or 2 than somebody teetotal.

[evensteadiereddie]

It is vital to remember the fundamental issue is whether you are committing a crime or not when you get behind the wheel.
If you're legal, no problem. If you're not you deserve everything coming your way.

[evensteadiereddie]

Millions of people suffer from anxiety through no fault of their own, are you suggesting people with anxiety or suffering lack of confidence should be deprived from the privilege of driving, the roads are dangerous with sober drivers taking unnecessary risks when people are relaxed you can make decisions correctly I think. I’d prefer somebody on the road who’s had a pint or 2 than somebody teetotal.

I'd be happy as long as the driver is both competent and legal.

[Jakubclaret]

I'd be happy as long as the driver is both competent and legal.

That’s debatable, I think the laws around drink driving are far too strict, just because somethings legal doesn’t make it right, the law isn’t always right, we (most of us) follow the law like sheep thinking it’s the right thing to do, through fear of the consequences not because we believe in something, it’s compulsion more than desire.

[Zlatan]

Millions of people suffer from anxiety through no fault of their own, are you suggesting people with anxiety or suffering lack of confidence should be deprived from the privilege of driving, the roads are dangerous with sober drivers taking unnecessary risks when people are relaxed you can make decisions correctly I think. I’d prefer somebody on the road who’s had a pint or 2 than somebody teetotal.

Fantastic suggestion, a little Dutch courage so you can drive... I’ve heard it all now

[Grumps]

It's not "getting away with it" if you only have one drink
You wouldn't get disqualified after one drink (as long as you take your time)
Sober people are proven to have more accidents than drunk people
People die
Sober drivers kill more people than drunk drivers..fact

Got away with it, as in not having an accident
Some have been disqualified after one drink
Thankfully your last point is correct, as the majority of people aren't idiotic enough to drink when drunk....

[ksrclaret]

I’d prefer somebody on the road who’s had a pint or 2 than somebody teetotal.

And with that, we’ve reached peak Jakubclaret.

[warksclaret]

....after many shots

'''his drive was watched all the way"

[evensteadiereddie]

And with that, we’ve reached peak Jakubclaret.

gettyimages-106948354-1024x1024.jpg (307.32 KiB) Viewed 2602 times

[boatshed bill]

Got away with it, as in not having an accident
Some have been disqualified after one drink
Thankfully your last point is correct, as the majority of people aren't idiotic enough to drink when drunk....

I think you need to read your post again, Grumps

Plus, I must have "got away with it" by your definition, hundreds of times. Am I just plain lucky, or do i understand and accept my responsibilities as a driver and act accordingly?

It seems that I am defending driving whilst under the influence of drink. Actually I am vehemently opposed to people drinking whilst over the legal limit.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Mate, I was drinking all sorts from the age of 12 and then doing stupid stuff. I think I’m probably well qualified to say that drinking and stupid stuff is a bad idea. Hardly drink now, I prefer to have all my faculties working as they should

Exactly the same for me, started at 12 and now barely drink.
Although I'm going away for a messy weekend in a couple of months so I need to get some practice in beforehand...

[Zlatan]

So, Zlat, it's alcohol in general that you're opposed to - not specifically the drink/driving issue.
That would explain your stance.

Not really, I prefer to see it as acquired wisdom

[evensteadiereddie]

That’s debatable, I think the laws around drink driving are far too strict, just because somethings legal doesn’t make it right, the law isn’t always right, we (most of us) follow the law like sheep thinking it’s the right thing to do, through fear of the consequences not because we believe in something, it’s compulsion more than desire.

I'll be honest, Jakub, I do not refuse to drive with an excessive, illegal alcohol content in my blood because of any sheep-like qualities - more the fact that it would be bloody dangerous to do so. Not because it's morally wrong, not because it's moronic but because I believe the risk of injuring myself or others would be significantly higher and, therefore, not acceptable to me.

[Grumps]

I think you need to read your post again, Grumps

Plus, I must have "got away with it" by your definition, hundreds of times. Am I just plain lucky, or do i understand and accept my responsibilities as a driver and act accordingly?

It seems that I am defending dfriving whilst under the influence of drink. Actually I am vehemently opposed to people drinking whilst over the legal limit.

Noted... Obviously drive not drink ......... Or dfriving?

Your responsibility as a driver is to drive when you've been drinking?

[Elbarad]

Yes it is. Utterly moronic.

Have a pint, drive home, hit someone and kill them. Can you 100% guarantee that you would still have done it without the pint? I couldn’t, and personally I’d struggle to live with myself even after “passing” a breath test. My point is you will never know whether you would’ve reacted quicker or made a different decision to change the outcome.

It’s morally abhorrent to have alcohol or any other substance that affects the mind and then get behind the wheel of a car.

Serious question. When you're driving do you allow anyone in your vehicle to talk while in the car? Do you listen to the radio whist driving? How about looking at a street sign or other traffic signs? Any of those can be distracting and if gods forbid you got in an accident could you 100% guarantee that speaking to someone or listening to the radio didn't cause you to lose an instance of concentration?

I haven't seen anyone in this thread argue that being legally over the drinks limit and driving is ok, but your own personally high standards seem very strict if you insist on a 100% guarantee that nothing you might have done could have in anyway contributed to an accident. They are called accidents for a reason.

[TsarBomba]

Millions of people suffer from anxiety through no fault of their own, are you suggesting people with anxiety or suffering lack of confidence should be deprived from the privilege of driving, the roads are dangerous with sober drivers taking unnecessary risks when people are relaxed you can make decisions correctly I think. I’d prefer somebody on the road who’s had a pint or 2 than somebody teetotal.

I don’t even know where to begin with this. I’m flabbergasted.

Most if not all coppers, including myself, acknowledge the ambiguity that comes with the law as it is. It is far simpler just to make the limit zero, and then everyone knows where they stand.

I don’t really have the inclination to start recounting the road accidents I’ve been to that have involved drink or drugs. I’ve seen enough blood to last me a lifetime.

All I will say is if you’re going to have a drink and then drive, just be bloody careful. There is no doubt that even drinking 1 or 2 pints dulls the senses and slows your reaction time.

[boatshed bill]

Noted... Obviously drive not drink ......... Or dfriving?

Your responsibility as a driver is to drive when you've been drinking?

Nice one.
I think they should drink until they reach the legal limit, then drink some more, then jump in their car and break the speed limit down a country lane whilst snorting a line of cocaine off the dashboard

the trouble is i'm not far off the truth these days. (not me, obviously, I'm a clean living chap)

[Jakubclaret]

I'll be honest, Jakub, I refuse to drive with an excessive, illegal alcohol content in my blood because of any sheep-like qualities - more the fact that it would be bloody dangerous to do so. Not because it's morally wrong, not because it's moronic but because I believe the risk of injuring myself or others would be significantly higher and, therefore, not acceptable to me.

That’s you though that same logic does not apply to everybody, I’ve known people take propranolol which is a beater blocker prescribed off the label for anxiety, it stops the adrenaline & reduces the heart rate, if people wish to take whatever drugs prior to driving & it’s an efficient way of making them to be safer drivers I’m in favour of that, I prefer relaxed drivers who drive slow & are patient as opposed to fast impatient drivers.

[Zlatan]

That’s you though that same logic does not apply to everybody, I’ve known people take propranolol which is a beater blocker prescribed off the label for anxiety, it stops the adrenaline & reduces the heart rate, if people wish to take whatever drugs prior to driving & it’s an efficient way of making them to be safer drivers I’m in favour of that, I prefer relaxed drivers who drive slow & are patient as opposed to fast impatient drivers.

Personally I’d prefer drivers to be in full control of the vehicle and not under any influence of any substance. If you need to take medication to feel relaxed enough to drive, please do us all a favour and get a bus pass

[CnBtruntru]

On the T..t list, not what I would have expected of him, but he ho 5 or 6 drinks and he thinks he's indestructible.

[evensteadiereddie]

Jakub, the drugs or medications "they" are taking are legal, prescribed and are deemed to be safe to use if driving , I'm assumimg or are you also saying a driver should be free to choose what drug - any drug - they take and how much they have whilst or before driving just so long as it makes them feel relaxed ?