Pope is not in the England squad

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Newcastleclaret93
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Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue May 25, 2021 1:01 pm

Injury must be worst then first thought.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Raggus » Tue May 25, 2021 1:06 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 1:01 pm
Injury must be worst then first thought.
I'm sure Dyche said 4-5weeks after minor knee op? Euros start in 3 week so I'd assume most people already knew Pope wouldn't be in the squad?

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Bcrollerz » Tue May 25, 2021 1:11 pm

We already knew this?

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by MiltonKeynesClaret93 » Tue May 25, 2021 1:13 pm

Worse than
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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Tue May 25, 2021 1:17 pm

Tournament starts in 17 days, there was no chance he’d be fit if he was having the op this week.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by IanMcL » Tue May 25, 2021 1:26 pm

Pity for the lad.
Had chance of number 1. Now, while Southgate is in charge, he will be lucky to make the squad, following this tournament.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by evensteadiereddie » Tue May 25, 2021 1:27 pm

So long as he's with us in August and raring to go, I'm happy with that.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by tiger76 » Tue May 25, 2021 1:28 pm

Didn't expect him to be I thought this was made clear a few days ago. Glad that Sam Johnstone has made the long list anyway he's deserved that for his performances this season.

However it is curious that 2 of the 4 keepers named have suffered relegation with their clubs this season, but then I suppose GS doesn't have many other options to choose from.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by MT03ALG » Tue May 25, 2021 1:32 pm

Popey will be back in the squad when Southgate resigns after the Euros :D :D
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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by bfcjg » Tue May 25, 2021 1:36 pm

Is it just me he Hope's we concede some pathetic goals caused by this playing out from the back mantra.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by MACCA » Tue May 25, 2021 1:37 pm

Regards Pope going for knee surgery.

It wouldn't surprise me if a conversation has gone on along the lines of, if I'm 2nd or 3rd choice, I could do with knowing as I/Pope needs an op, and there's really no point wasting 4 weeks sat on my/his arse, when I can get it done now, and be in the road to recovery.

Not sure if it would be Pope or Dyche that would have that sort of chat with Southgate, but I'd put my last pound on that having happened.

Getting him fit and ready for us is a massive priority, especially after seeing those last 3 games, and the poor goals we conceded.
Last edited by MACCA on Tue May 25, 2021 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by boatshed bill » Tue May 25, 2021 1:38 pm

bfcjg wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 1:36 pm
Is it just me he Hope's we concede some pathetic goals caused by this playing out from the back mantra.
I have just lost all interest in the Euros
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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by tiger76 » Tue May 25, 2021 1:39 pm

MT03ALG wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 1:32 pm
Popey will be back in the squad when Southgate resigns after the Euros :D :D
Don't shed any tears for Southgate he'll no doubt feature in a pizza ad again after yet another glorious failure, and trouser a fortune into the bargain.
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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue May 25, 2021 1:42 pm

Not sure why people are wishing England perform badly. Pope was never gonna start a game at the Euros anyway.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by SalisburyClaret » Tue May 25, 2021 1:51 pm

Just looked at the stats on goalkeepers in The Athletic - Pope stopped 44 goals last season, Pickford -0.3 and Henderson -0.4. That's a huge difference.

The analysis shows how many goals a keeper is expected to have conceded based on the quality of shots they faced

Whatever England do in the Euros, It's likely they would have done better with Pope
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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Gordaleman » Tue May 25, 2021 2:10 pm

Being Burnley centric for a moment, this is no bad thing. The players have gone through an extraordinary season and the more rest they get, between now and August, the better. Let's get our injuries cleared up and hope for a better start to the new campaign.

Anyway, despite the media hyping England up, they will disappoint as usual, so Pope won't miss much.
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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by NewClaret » Tue May 25, 2021 2:13 pm

MACCA wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 1:37 pm
Regards Pope going for knee surgery.

Wouldn't surprise me if a conversation has gone on along the lines of, if I'm 2nd or 3rd choice, I could do with knowing as I/Pope needs an op, and there's no point wasting 4 weeks sat on my/his arse.

Not sure if it wouod be Pope or Dyche that wouod have that chat, but I'd put my last pound on that having happened.

Getting him fit and ready for us us a massive priority after seeing those last 3 games, and the poor goals conceded.
Totally agree with you on this one mate. I can't see any way that was sanctioned without some conversation with Southgate about the prospects of him starting.

I still think it would have been a great experience for him to join up with the squad though and gutted for him he's missing out.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by KefkaClaret » Tue May 25, 2021 2:14 pm

I imagine Pope is more comfortable going for the surgery considering the World Cup is next year.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Spijed » Tue May 25, 2021 2:17 pm

Aaron Ramsdale hasn't had the best of seasons has he?

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by buzzclarets79 » Tue May 25, 2021 2:30 pm

Obviously gutted for Nick. However could be a blessing, just imagine if he did go and played and played as well as we all know he is. It’d only draw even more attention to him and could encourage a bid from a Spurs or similar.

Attention will now be on Johnston if he plays.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue May 25, 2021 2:33 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 2:13 pm
Totally agree with you on this one mate. I can't see any way that was sanctioned without some conversation with Southgate about the prospects of him starting.

I still think it would have been a great experience for him to join up with the squad though and gutted for him he's missing out.
Southgate wouldn't start him if he's injured though.

He's picked a squad this large initially because of injuries that are at varying stages or they know little about.
Then they can make a decision this next week.

If Pope turned up injured, he'd be on the bench quite simply.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by NottsClaret » Tue May 25, 2021 2:41 pm

KefkaClaret wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 2:14 pm
I imagine Pope is more comfortable going for the surgery considering the World Cup is next year.
Good point that. He'd be playing behind Tyrone Mings this summer too.. could be a good tournament to miss. I can easily imagine his stock rising by not being there.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by DAVETHEVICAR » Tue May 25, 2021 2:42 pm

With or without Nick Pope I hope England do well at the Euros
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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by tiger76 » Tue May 25, 2021 2:55 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 2:10 pm
Being Burnley centric for a moment, this is no bad thing. The players have gone through an extraordinary season and the more rest they get, between now and August, the better. Let's get our injuries cleared up and hope for a better start to the new campaign.

Anyway, despite the media hyping England up, they will disappoint as usual, so Pope won't miss much.
Those are roughly my thoughts, and I think this means only Vydra will be going to the Euro's from the Burnley squad, and that can't be a bad thing from our perspective, hopefully a lot of the bigger clubs will have players that are flagging at the start of next season, and we can hit the ground running and get some early points on the board, unlike this season where we had to play catch up for the majority of the season.

Regarding England I don't expect much anymore, so when our inevitable exit comes I'm not disappointed, you're absolutely spot on about the media though they'll do the usual banging the drum and it's coming home nonsense until England crash out once again, and then as they always do they'll round on the manager and players in their usual subtle fashion.

I'm just looking forward to enjoying the Euro's as a feast of football and watching some of the world's best players exhibiting their skills, I only hope that the likes of KDB and others have enough left in the tank to showcase their best, it has been a long hard season and they're bound to be feeling it now.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by claretblue » Tue May 25, 2021 3:06 pm

bfcjg wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 1:36 pm
Is it just me he Hope's we concede some pathetic goals caused by this playing out from the back mantra.
no...also my interest in the competition has ceased since confirmation that Pope isn't a participant!

Good luck with your operation + recovery Nick! ;)

:D

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Gordaleman » Tue May 25, 2021 3:35 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 2:55 pm
Those are roughly my thoughts, and I think this means only Vydra will be going to the Euro's from the Burnley squad, and that can't be a bad thing from our perspective, hopefully a lot of the bigger clubs will have players that are flagging at the start of next season, and we can hit the ground running and get some early points on the board, unlike this season where we had to play catch up for the majority of the season.

Regarding England I don't expect much anymore, so when our inevitable exit comes I'm not disappointed, you're absolutely spot on about the media though they'll do the usual banging the drum and it's coming home nonsense until England crash out once again, and then as they always do they'll round on the manager and players in their usual subtle fashion.

I'm just looking forward to enjoying the Euro's as a feast of football and watching some of the world's best players exhibiting their skills, I only hope that the likes of KDB and others have enough left in the tank to showcase their best, it has been a long hard season and they're bound to be feeling it now.
The media raved about us getting to the SF of the World Cup in 2018, but having played nobody decent in the qualifiers, and only two decent teams in the finals, Belgium and Croatia, we contrived to lose to them three times in total. England. Real quality eh?

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Pstotto » Tue May 25, 2021 3:40 pm

'They' don't want England to win a tournament because they want to destroy the Englishman's mojo, especially post-Covid.

Our own country against its men.

So it's always 'an opportunity' to blood new players, try new things out, like losing to Iceland.

Expect an early exit.

The commentary before the World Cup semi-Final in Russia showed them at work.

"HAVEN'T England done well to get to the semis, you're satisfied as a nation AREN'T YOU"?

Look at the Sunday Times Rich List and how many are English men who could kick a ball.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by bfcjg » Tue May 25, 2021 4:00 pm

bfcjg wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 1:36 pm
Is it just me he Hope's we concede some pathetic goals caused by this playing out from the back mantra.
I don't want us to lose, just cock up at the back via stupid passing out at all costs.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue May 25, 2021 4:07 pm

bfcjg wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 4:00 pm
I don't want us to lose, just cock up at the back via stupid passing out at all costs.
It’s really not Southgates fault that Pope and Tarks can’t play this style/tactic. Every top team in world football plays out from back. What exactly do you want Southgate to do? Set up like Burnley and put 9 men behind the ball every game?

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue May 25, 2021 4:33 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 4:07 pm
It’s really not Southgates fault that Pope and Tarks can’t play this style/tactic. Every top team in world football plays out from back. What exactly do you want Southgate to do? Set up like Burnley and put 9 men behind the ball every game?
When Pope passed it out to Stones and Stones then proceeded to have a massive brain fart, did you blame Stones or Pope?

If its Pope then I'll be left speechless....

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue May 25, 2021 4:33 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 4:33 pm
When Pope passed it out to Stones and Stones then proceeded to have a massive brain fart, did you blame Stones or Pope?

If its Pope then I'll be left speechless....
The answer to that is which ever one plays for Burnley
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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Spijed » Tue May 25, 2021 4:36 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 4:07 pm
It’s really not Southgates fault that Pope and Tarks can’t play this style/tactic. Every top team in world football plays out from back. What exactly do you want Southgate to do? Set up like Burnley and put 9 men behind the ball every game?
Southgate needs to be more pragmatic though.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue May 25, 2021 4:52 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 4:33 pm
When Pope passed it out to Stones and Stones then proceeded to have a massive brain fart, did you blame Stones or Pope?

If its Pope then I'll be left speechless....
Stones is the main reason that mistake happened.

Still think Pope wasn’t faultless, it was a poor pass about 15 yards behind stones. He should have dealt with it though.

Regardless, I thought Pope looked like a fish out of water playing that style of football.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue May 25, 2021 4:56 pm

15 yards ? Have you any idea how big that is :D

The penalty box is only 18 yard

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by SalisburyClaret » Tue May 25, 2021 4:57 pm

If you’re going to play out from the back, it needs to be for a manager who knows how to use the system to create space - there’s only one of them in the Premier League. Southgate has no idea

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Claretitus » Tue May 25, 2021 4:57 pm

Spijed wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 4:36 pm
Southgate needs to be more pragmatic though.
Agreed, but the Dullard will no doubt start with his 2 holding midfielders, instead of going for it a little bit more, and let the opponent worry about OUR attacking players. I’m not saying go all out hung-ho, just play to our strengths, instead of worrying too much about theirs.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by jedi_master » Tue May 25, 2021 5:01 pm

A huge shame for Nick, he deserved it so much.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue May 25, 2021 5:33 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 4:52 pm
Stones is the main reason that mistake happened.

Still think Pope wasn’t faultless, it was a poor pass about 15 yards behind stones. He should have dealt with it though.

Regardless, I thought Pope looked like a fish out of water playing that style of football.
Jfw...

Stones was running back towards the England area, Pope played it out so Stones was able to easily collect it and he wasn't going to be under pressure as a result.

You call it a poor pass, but it wasn't that at all.
You're the issue with your agenda against Pope who did everything right until the shot against him as a result of Stones being utterly incapable of collecting a pass, turning and passing it out comfortably before any player got close to him

Pope didn't put Stones under any pressure at all as a result of the pass.
Stones put himself under pressure due to his own stupidity.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by kentonclaret » Tue May 25, 2021 5:41 pm

Hopefully we will perform better at the Euros than we did at Eurovision. ;)

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue May 25, 2021 5:59 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 5:33 pm
Jfw...

Stones was running back towards the England area, Pope played it out so Stones was able to easily collect it and he wasn't going to be under pressure as a result.

You call it a poor pass, but it wasn't that at all.
You're the issue with your agenda against Pope who did everything right until the shot against him as a result of Stones being utterly incapable of collecting a pass, turning and passing it out comfortably before any player got close to him

Pope didn't put Stones under any pressure at all as a result of the pass.
Stones put himself under pressure due to his own stupidity.
I haven’t got an agenda against Pope at all I think he is great and should be selected. I just don’t think he should start, I think Pickford is better all around. However if Pickford is injured I would prefer Pope in goal to whoever else has been selected.

I think it’s wrong to say he didn’t do anything wrong there. All the pundits highlighted the pass was poor.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Stalbansclaret » Tue May 25, 2021 6:28 pm

You think Pickford is better than Pope "all round" ...Really ? Better at coming for crosses ? Better at shot-stopping ? Better at avoiding critical errors ?

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue May 25, 2021 6:49 pm

Stalbansclaret wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 6:28 pm
You think Pickford is better than Pope "all round" ...Really ? Better at coming for crosses ? Better at shot-stopping ? Better at avoiding critical errors ?
I think Pope is better at all them areas. However I think Pickford is considerably better at distributing the ball, beating the press and setting off attacks and in a team that is trying to win games they are more important.

As nearly every top manager in world football believes.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue May 25, 2021 6:50 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 5:59 pm
I haven’t got an agenda against Pope at all I think he is great and should be selected. I just don’t think he should start, I think Pickford is better all around. However if Pickford is injured I would prefer Pope in goal to whoever else has been selected.

I think it’s wrong to say he didn’t do anything wrong there. All the pundits highlighted the pass was poor.
Ah yes the pundits who were desperate to ensure Stones didn't get blamed for his absolute clusterfck attempt at controlling the ball...

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Spijed » Tue May 25, 2021 6:55 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 6:49 pm
I think Pope is better at all them areas. However I think Pickford is considerably better at distributing the ball, beating the press and setting off attacks and in a team that is trying to win games they are more important.

As nearly every top manager in world football believes.
Klopp is a top manager but Liverpool are one of the most direct teams in the Prem.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Rombald » Tue May 25, 2021 7:09 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 6:49 pm
I think Pope is better at all them areas. However I think Pickford is considerably better at distributing the ball, beating the press and setting off attacks and in a team that is trying to win games they are more important.

As nearly every top manager in world football believes.
Of course stopping the ball going in the net is secondary.....

I genuinely struggle to see what enjoyment you get from watching Burnley . Every comment on almost every subject is painfully negative

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by boatshed bill » Tue May 25, 2021 7:10 pm

Spijed wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 6:55 pm
Klopp is a top manager but Liverpool are one of the most direct teams in the Prem.
They play a lot of long diagonal balls, but I wouldn't call them direct as such.

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue May 25, 2021 7:12 pm

Rombald wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 7:09 pm
Of course stopping the ball going in the net is secondary.....

I genuinely struggle to see what enjoyment you get from watching Burnley . Every comment on almost every subject is painfully negative
They're forced to watch Burnley, that's why they persist even when they don't enjoy it :lol:

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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by Devils_Advocate » Tue May 25, 2021 7:31 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 7:10 pm
They play a lot of long diagonal balls, but I wouldn't call them direct as such.
Liverpool are direct in the sense they like to move the ball from defense to attack quickly but they also attack in numbers and at pace committing most of their team forward to overwhelm the opposition.

In contrast a team like Man City likes to retain possession and play through an opposition with movement, passing and precision.

One of the cornerstones of which Dyche's success is built on is not committing too many players ahead of the ball as when we lose possession we retreat, get our shape and make it difficult for a team to break us down

You can see how poor Tarks and Mee have looked in recent games when they've had the opposition running at them with half a pitch worth of space. Their natural instinct is to back off and try and let the other players get back in position and close up the space.

Because we dont have the quality of players to play a possession game outside our defensive third and because we are not willing to throw players forward ahead of the ball our direct style of football is much more languid and one dimensional and nothing like the exciting style of play that is associated with Klopp and his team.

Thats not to criticise the way we go about things. We play in a way that gets the best out of the players we have and the fact we continue to remain in this division is testament to how effective our approach is (even if its not always fun to watch)
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boatshed bill
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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by boatshed bill » Tue May 25, 2021 7:41 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 7:31 pm
Liverpool are direct in the sense they like to move the ball from defense to attack quickly but they also attack in numbers and at pace committing most of their team forward to overwhelm the opposition.

In contrast a team like Man City likes to retain possession and play through an opposition with movement, passing and precision.

One of the cornerstones of which Dyche's success is built on is not committing too many players ahead of the ball as when we lose possession we retreat, get our shape and make it difficult for a team to break us down

You can see how poor Tarks and Mee have looked in recent games when they've had the opposition running at them with half a pitch worth of space. Their natural instinct is to back off and try and let the other players get back in position and close up the space.

Because we dont have the quality of players to play a possession game outside our defensive third and because we are not willing to throw players forward ahead of the ball our direct style of football is much more languid and one dimensional and nothing like the exciting style of play that is associated with Klopp and his team.

Thats not to criticise the way we go about things. We play in a way that gets the best out of the players we have and the fact we continue to remain in this division is testament to how effective our approach is (even if its not always fun to watch)
you're not far off with that assessment, DA.
Do we choose players to suit our tactics, or tactics to suit our players?
I think it's the former.

GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Pope is not in the England squad

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue May 25, 2021 7:49 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 7:41 pm
you're not far off with that assessment, DA.
Do we choose players to suit our tactics, or tactics to suit our players?
I think it's the former.
Its a bit of both.
Dyche built a team to keep us up in the championship, promotion that first season was a shock to everyone.

He then learnt from that first season in the PL and next time he had a system and players to keep us up, by making us very diff to break down.

When we had Defour, we shifted Boyd out of the door and got a better winger in and played better football.

We currently don't have a Defour type player so Dyche has a tried and trusted system to suit who he has.

With a different transfer approach we would see different football, but Dyche's first priority every season has always been survival, much to the disgust of some on here but thats the same for a dozen clubs in the PL.

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