Green energy

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DCWat
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Re: Green energy

Post by DCWat » Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:00 pm

Hipper wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:44 am
With installation of low energy LED street lights that might change.
Call me old fashioned but I wish they’d at least try to replicate the orange colour we are used to. I really don’t like the false white light colour that these create.

ClaretTony
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Re: Green energy

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:01 pm

DCWat wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:00 pm
Call me old fashioned but I wish they’d at least try to replicate the orange colour we are used to. I really don’t like the false white light colour that these create.
The new lights installed here are hopeless to be honest. I don’t think it would make any difference if they were switched off.

DCWat
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Re: Green energy

Post by DCWat » Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:06 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:01 pm
The new lights installed here are hopeless to be honest. I don’t think it would make any difference if they were switched off.
In terms of the light produced, the ones over here emit a decent amount of light - possibly too much.

Hipper
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Re: Green energy

Post by Hipper » Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:11 am

DCWat wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:00 pm
Call me old fashioned but I wish they’d at least try to replicate the orange colour we are used to. I really don’t like the false white light colour that these create.
I understood the orange sodium lights were used to provide increased vision in foggy conditions as the wavelength of this light is similar to the size of the fog particles and so it can bend around those particles instead of being absorbed. We don't seem to have many fogs these days.

Hipper
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Re: Green energy

Post by Hipper » Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:12 am


Hipper
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Re: Green energy

Post by Hipper » Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:15 am

KateR wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:37 pm
change-in-global-energy-consumption.jpg
change-in-global-energy-consumption.jpg (107.62 KiB) Viewed 1399 times
Of course this only shows the percentage of fuel used, not the total. With the vast increase in population and standard of living generally, the increase in fuel use is enormous.

The population was one billion in 1800, now it's 7.7 billion and still rising although the rate is slowing down:
world-population-by-world-regions-post-1820.png
world-population-by-world-regions-post-1820.png (438.38 KiB) Viewed 1391 times
https://ourworldindata.org/world-population-growth

Energy use 1800 to present:
global-energy-substitution.png
global-energy-substitution.png (537.39 KiB) Viewed 1391 times
https://ourworldindata.org/energy-produ ... onsumption

To my mind therefore, it is not our standard of living that is the issue but the number of people.

I suggest there is a figure for the amount of energy and material use that is sustainable - what that figure is I don't know. You can therefore say that with x amount of people the earth can sustain y standard of living for each of them (or as we have it now, an average of y with a range of standards of living). This means that if you increase the population you reduce the standard of living, and vice versa of course. I appreciate that new technologies may change things.

For example, it looks like in 2019 there were 7.7 billion people. The energy use was 170,000 TWh. If the population had remained at the 1800 level of one billion we would be using 22,078 TWh, about the 1950s energy usage.

Until we grasp this fact and do something about it we will not make much progress with our relentless damage to the earth and hence survival of civilisation.

It's not for me. I'll be gone in twenty years or less no doubt but if you have and care about children or grand children, what the f... are you doing?
Last edited by Hipper on Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

IanMcL
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Re: Green energy

Post by IanMcL » Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:15 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:06 pm
I applied on the Government's green grant but nobody has responded since the initial email to say they have received my application.

That was 14 months ago
Perhaps you thought it had gone to the right place and it didn't.

14 months signals, not that interested or extremely patient and trusting.

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Re: Green energy

Post by IanMcL » Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:17 am

I have a geat pump. Takes days to install and I have 2 aircon units and a boxed in set of gubbins outside to replace my wee gas boiler.

Water and heat is fine.

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Re: Green energy

Post by Quickenthetempo » Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:45 am

IanMcL wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:15 am
Perhaps you thought it had gone to the right place and it didn't.

14 months signals, not that interested or extremely patient and trusting.
I emailed about 10 times chasing up after their initial email to say my application had been received.

A builder who came round to collect some stone said he tried sorting it himself and rung 5 companies on the government list. All 5 said they shouldn't be on the list and weren't taking part in the scheme.

A big balls up from what I have seen and heard.

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Re: Green energy

Post by IanMcL » Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:06 pm

That's grim Qtt.
Government seems incapable of organisation.

Peter Loo
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Re: Green energy

Post by Peter Loo » Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:33 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:45 am
I emailed about 10 times chasing up after their initial email to say my application had been received.

A builder who came round to collect some stone said he tried sorting it himself and rung 5 companies on the government list. All 5 said they shouldn't be on the list and weren't taking part in the scheme.

A big balls up from what I have seen and heard.
This Government have form with their headline announcements so “accidentally on purpose” listings followed by shall we say less then honest apologies seem to be the norm.

Peter Loo
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Re: Green energy

Post by Peter Loo » Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:39 pm

KateR wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:54 pm
Hogeveen will be green hydrogen from electrolysis and replace the existing natural gas plant, from this year for the future municipalities I'm proposing to change the electrolysis hydrogen to the W2H2 we are building in California, however many still see this as "a first of its kind" and therefore want proof before committing.

Vast majority of hydrogen is produced from steam reforming and used in hydrotreaters and ammonia plants, as noted before this is gray hydrogen and not considered good for the environment. One company I am working with has developed a system to extract the CO2, if this is employed in the gray hydrogen production it becomes blue hydrogen, it's relatively easy to extract the CO2 but difficult to do anything with it. This usually involves storage somewhere, reinjecting into salt caverns and depleted oil fields is growing but still in its infancy.

I am working in a team for developing a hydrogen facility in the Port of Rotterdam which will produce a small amount of CO2, we are talking with the large agricultural companies about piping/trucking it to them to use in there greenhouses where they keep the interior CO2 saturated.

One factor to remember that is driving the change is that governments are getting more aggressive with companies that cause CO2 or equivalent to be released through increasing taxation penalties and incentive payments where they can be proven to reduce. This is worked for example into the business calculations and ROI making it more attractive to produce green hydrogen as subsidies are available in many countries, however the US is different from Europe for example, and even then additional penalties/incentives are added from various companies over and above those employed by Europe. Netherlands for example is a good place to do business if its green, but the UK has done more than the Netherlands for example in making things "greener", which surprised me, but you can all see the drive from the present government.
Kate you seem very knowledgeable about Hydrogen, I did hear that the Government were trying to sideline Hydrogen on the thought that it would be a big tax lose if people could produce it themselves.

Is that feasible or not.

Paul Waine
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Re: Green energy

Post by Paul Waine » Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:51 pm

Peter Loo wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:39 pm
Kate you seem very knowledgeable about Hydrogen, I did hear that the Government were trying to sideline Hydrogen on the thought that it would be a big tax lose if people could produce it themselves.

Is that feasible or not.
Hi Peter, what do you mean by "if people could produce it themselves?" Are you suggesting people could produce their own hydrogen and so save on the natural gas they use to heat their homes and also use the hydrogen, via fuel cell, to power their cars - and while they are doing this cut out all the carbon emissions.

Hydrogen can be produced either by "big industrial processes" in chemical plants or by electrolysis, where electricity is used to separate hydrogen and oxygen that makes up water (H2O) into hydrogen and water. With the first process, you will either emit a lot of carbon dioxide, or find somewhere to safely dispose of it. With the later, you can avoid emitting carbon dioxide if you use electricity from wind turbines (or nuclear power..) or, again, you find some way to safely dispose/use/store the carbon dioxide that you emit when you generate electricity from natural gas (or coal, but that's means lot's more carbon).

The issue is how much will climate change cost us in the years ahead v how much will doing something to manage climate change. Where we are today, it doesn't appear that there are any low cost options.

The attraction of hydrogen is that, if the cost of production can be managed, meaning make it cheaper to produce, then it can feed into our gas pipelines are reduce the carbon emissions from heating with natural gas. It may also be that hydrogen can be a cost effective way of powering HGVs and similar, rather than powering them by batteries. But, there's still a long way to go and a lot of hoping that costs can be reduced etc etc etc before we can be confident we can progress down this road.

Of course, in the UK (and many other countries, but not all) significant taxation is raised on ICE fuels. This will need to be replaced, one way or another. But, not dealing with climate change will cost us all a lot more...

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Re: Green energy

Post by dsr » Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:11 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:17 am
I have a geat pump. Takes days to install and I have 2 aircon units and a boxed in set of gubbins outside to replace my wee gas boiler.

Water and heat is fine.
Is it one of those underground jobs, or air sourced? If the latter, is it noisy?

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Re: Green energy

Post by Peter Loo » Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:37 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:51 pm
Hi Peter, what do you mean by "if people could produce it themselves?" Are you suggesting people could produce their own hydrogen and so save on the natural gas they use to heat their homes and also use the hydrogen, via fuel cell, to power their cars - and while they are doing this cut out all the carbon emissions.

Hydrogen can be produced either by "big industrial processes" in chemical plants or by electrolysis, where electricity is used to separate hydrogen and oxygen that makes up water (H2O) into hydrogen and water. With the first process, you will either emit a lot of carbon dioxide, or find somewhere to safely dispose of it. With the later, you can avoid emitting carbon dioxide if you use electricity from wind turbines (or nuclear power..) or, again, you find some way to safely dispose/use/store the carbon dioxide that you emit when you generate electricity from natural gas (or coal, but that's means lot's more carbon).

The issue is how much will climate change cost us in the years ahead v how much will doing something to manage climate change. Where we are today, it doesn't appear that there are any low cost options.

The attraction of hydrogen is that, if the cost of production can be managed, meaning make it cheaper to produce, then it can feed into our gas pipelines are reduce the carbon emissions from heating with natural gas. It may also be that hydrogen can be a cost effective way of powering HGVs and similar, rather than powering them by batteries. But, there's still a long way to go and a lot of hoping that costs can be reduced etc etc etc before we can be confident we can progress down this road.

Of course, in the UK (and many other countries, but not all) significant taxation is raised on ICE fuels. This will need to be replaced, one way or another. But, not dealing with climate change will cost us all a lot more...
It was only mentioned to me that if people would be able to produce Hydrogen in their garage to propel their car illegally then they could say on tax, from what you say that’s not practical.

As you can tell I’m not up at all on the ins and outs of Hydrogen production just been interested as a way to reduce emissions for transport.

Thanks for the detailed response though.

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Re: Green energy

Post by Pstotto » Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:53 am

New money-making scam.

Hipper
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Re: Green energy

Post by Hipper » Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:21 am

Peter Loo wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:39 pm
Kate you seem very knowledgeable about Hydrogen, I did hear that the Government were trying to sideline Hydrogen on the thought that it would be a big tax lose if people could produce it themselves.

Is that feasible or not.
According to this (and perhaps I understand it wrongly) the H2 will be produced in the home during the summer via solar panels and transported to a storage facility. Then in the winter it will be transported back to heat the home.

https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2020 ... hoogeveen/

Peter Loo
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Re: Green energy

Post by Peter Loo » Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:38 pm

Hipper wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:21 am
According to this (and perhaps I understand it wrongly) the H2 will be produced in the home during the summer via solar panels and transported to a storage facility. Then in the winter it will be transported back to heat the home.

https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2020 ... hoogeveen/
Thanks Hipper another interesting piece on Hydrogen I new nothing about.

KateR
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Re: Green energy

Post by KateR » Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:44 pm

Hipper wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:15 am
Of course this only shows the percentage of fuel used, not the total. With the vast increase in population and standard of living generally, the increase in fuel use is enormous.

To my mind therefore, it is not our standard of living that is the issue but the number of people.

Until we grasp this fact and do something about it we will not make much progress with our relentless damage to the earth and hence survival of civilisation.

It's not for me. I'll be gone in twenty years or less no doubt but if you have and care about children or grand children, what the f... are you doing?
I provided the graph simply to illustrate we are at the beginning of a global change with all that it entails and that multiple changes for the benefit of the planet (and people) were required, there is no simple fix and we should recognize it for what it is. There is little to no point trying to look at what might be if the population was less, yes it would definitely help but it's not going to happen, on the contrary, it's only going to grow and makes things worse, which needs to be recognized and is part of the equation, when looking for the solution.

If you're interested in this kind of thing, games and puzzles take a look at the link, but be warned it can be addictive, also not it's easy to solve if you cheat, like everything else really, modifying the world to meet the climate temperature means you have to be realistic with each and every parameter you change, ask yourself, will it really happen. There is no solution to this game and it is there to help people understand the issues and what is possible to do, while remembering the cost effect to people/nations demands on lifestyle, etc.

https://en-roads.climateinteractive.org ... .6&p55=2.2

KateR
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Re: Green energy

Post by KateR » Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:20 pm

Peter Loo wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:38 pm
Thanks Hipper another interesting piece on Hydrogen I new nothing about.
As a follow up to your question and the link from Hipper, one of the companies I am involved with were the consortium development leaders of that very project, today we have 5 more municipalities waiting to follow in their footsteps and of course it has great interest from numerous other countries who are waiting to see the cost and the success of this. The consortium has turned the concept and feed studies over to another member of the consortium, which coincidentally I am also involved with, but then again both companies are sister companies with the second company being the parent of the first.

The lead person for the conceptual and FEED studies is an "hydrogen expert" whom the company assigned to work with myself in regards to building the business case for the future, implement improvements etc. The concept from the initial design of using solar/wind, we have modified to using waste to producing the hydrogen, which will solve several issues of the base concept and provide a much lower carbon intensity than the original concept now being implemented. It's just another step forward in solving complex problems by adapting and improving solutions cost effectively, it involves local and federal government, plus the EU and the UN to an extent, the most difficult part of the solution is to do with subsidies/credits/penalties in order to present cost effective methodologies that will work.

There are numerous advantages of using waste rather than electrolysis, you can see below, which provides a comparison, however the most important comparison is that the hydrogen produced is far cheaper

When you look at production methods you are assigned a carbon intensity number (CIN), which in turn is used to calculate subsidies and cost, electrolysis is assigned a number of 0 which results in low subsidies, the waste to hydrogen plant designed for California has been assigned a -188 meaning subsidies are being given over and above renewables, if you take it a step further, hydrogen produced through dairy farming waste production is given a -300 (approx) allocation. Therefore, I see in the future a growth in this method of hydrogen production, how much of a difference it will make remains to be seen but from my perspective, every little helps. NOTE: CIN is calculated differently in virtually every country and also by state here plus members of the EU, hence it becomes difficult, as every time you have to know the CIN for each and every location, Germany is different to the Netherlands for example.

I continue to engage with numerous companies, some very exciting projects, some, which are new ways of working that involve the reduction of the cost of hydrogen to consumers, last week had a full day meeting regarding use of forest clearing in northern california as a feedstock to produce hydrogen that will be liquified in order to transport in a more cost effective environment. This project involves hydrogen at the pump and one of the companies involved in the meeting have a state contract to build new hydrogen fueling stations in California, it has taken years to get to this point and hydrogen won't be available until 2024 for the new stations.

While it is feasible to produce hydrogen at home, I personally don't see it happening this decades for numerous reasons and for a final clarification I am no hydrogen expert.
Attachments
waste vs renewables.png
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Peter Loo
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Re: Green energy

Post by Peter Loo » Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:01 pm

KateR wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:20 pm
As a follow up to your question and the link from Hipper, one of the companies I am involved with were the consortium development leaders of that very project, today we have 5 more municipalities waiting to follow in their footsteps and of course it has great interest from numerous other countries who are waiting to see the cost and the success of this. The consortium has turned the concept and feed studies over to another member of the consortium, which coincidentally I am also involved with, but then again both companies are sister companies with the second company being the parent of the first.

The lead person for the conceptual and FEED studies is an "hydrogen expert" whom the company assigned to work with myself in regards to building the business case for the future, implement improvements etc. The concept from the initial design of using solar/wind, we have modified to using waste to producing the hydrogen, which will solve several issues of the base concept and provide a much lower carbon intensity than the original concept now being implemented. It's just another step forward in solving complex problems by adapting and improving solutions cost effectively, it involves local and federal government, plus the EU and the UN to an extent, the most difficult part of the solution is to do with subsidies/credits/penalties in order to present cost effective methodologies that will work.

There are numerous advantages of using waste rather than electrolysis, you can see below, which provides a comparison, however the most important comparison is that the hydrogen produced is far cheaper

When you look at production methods you are assigned a carbon intensity number (CIN), which in turn is used to calculate subsidies and cost, electrolysis is assigned a number of 0 which results in low subsidies, the waste to hydrogen plant designed for California has been assigned a -188 meaning subsidies are being given over and above renewables, if you take it a step further, hydrogen produced through dairy farming waste production is given a -300 (approx) allocation. Therefore, I see in the future a growth in this method of hydrogen production, how much of a difference it will make remains to be seen but from my perspective, every little helps. NOTE: CIN is calculated differently in virtually every country and also by state here plus members of the EU, hence it becomes difficult, as every time you have to know the CIN for each and every location, Germany is different to the Netherlands for example.

I continue to engage with numerous companies, some very exciting projects, some, which are new ways of working that involve the reduction of the cost of hydrogen to consumers, last week had a full day meeting regarding use of forest clearing in northern california as a feedstock to produce hydrogen that will be liquified in order to transport in a more cost effective environment. This project involves hydrogen at the pump and one of the companies involved in the meeting have a state contract to build new hydrogen fueling stations in California, it has taken years to get to this point and hydrogen won't be available until 2024 for the new stations.

While it is feasible to produce hydrogen at home, I personally don't see it happening this decades for numerous reasons and for a final clarification I am no hydrogen expert.
Thanks Kate all very interesting developments going on, an enormous task for the whole world especially the developed Countries like us to solve but cutting emissions we must.
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IanMcL
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Re: Green energy

Post by IanMcL » Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:11 pm

dsr wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:11 pm
Is it one of those underground jobs, or air sourced? If the latter, is it noisy?
Air source.
No not noisy. Hum from fan but doesn't project.
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KateR
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Re: Green energy

Post by KateR » Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:01 pm

couple of links for those that are mildly interested in the subject, including going beyond hydrogen:

https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/prio ... en-deal_en

Shell & Daimler have teamed to produce hydrogen for heavy transportation, the link below is regarding California but a large project for the future involving Netherlands/Belgium and Germany is under development. Am working on the BD plans for designing/fabricating/constructing and operating numerous hydrogen fueling station associated with this project, but not using electrolysis like the California video below, yes you got it, hydrogen from waste instead:

https://www.shell.com/energy-and-innova ... rogen.html

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Re: Green energy

Post by Paul Waine » Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:57 pm

Peter Loo wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:37 pm
It was only mentioned to me that if people would be able to produce Hydrogen in their garage to propel their car illegally then they could say on tax, from what you say that’s not practical.

As you can tell I’m not up at all on the ins and outs of Hydrogen production just been interested as a way to reduce emissions for transport.

Thanks for the detailed response though.
Hi PL, and, just thinking about taxation of road vehicle fuels and power sources: today we have large taxes on petrol and diesel, plus 20% VAT on those fuels, but we can now also power road vehicles with electricity and, it is also feasible to do with hydrogen. There is no "road vehicle usage" tax (or duty) on electricity - we can all plug our evs into our residential electric power to re-charge the batteries. If we do this we pay the (reduced) VAT of 5% and that is the only tax we pay. Similarly, there is no current "road vehicle usage" tax on hydrogen, and, as hydrogen is a contender to replace natural gas in home heating, I can't see how there could be a "road vehicle usage" tax imposed on hydrogen - it would only make it massively more expensive, compared with electricity, and so would defeat the aim of switching to zero carbon fuels.

It is, of course, interesting to think how future governments will "plug the gap" in tax revenues as ice vehicles fall in number through the decade following 2030. Will there be a "charge per mile" on private road vehicles or will taxation switch to other activities?

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Re: Green energy

Post by Peter Loo » Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:11 pm

Hello PW, as you say the Government levy “large taxes on petrol and diesel +20% VAT on those fuels“ once the government know enough cars are powered by alternative fuels rather then petrol + the decreasing petrol filling stations across the country they will start regaining the lost taxes from petrol by putting taxes on renewables.

The general public will pay in the long run, we always do.

Banks will use the same tactics to levy new charges on customers when they have conned people into stop using cheques and cash whilst pushing online or to use ATM’s.

Once Banks feel they have got rid of the alternatives then charges will start, whilst I accept during the pandemic using a card payment has been safer health wise as soon as this dreadful virus has been tamed I will go back using cash and cheques and I urge others to do the same.

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Re: Green energy

Post by KateR » Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:36 pm

Peter Loo wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:11 pm
The general public will pay in the long run, we always do.

Banks will use the same tactics to levy new charges on customers when they have conned people into stop using cheques and cash whilst pushing online or to use ATM’s.

Once Banks feel they have got rid of the alternatives then charges will start, whilst I accept during the pandemic using a card payment has been safer health wise as soon as this dreadful virus has been tamed I will go back using cash and cheques and I urge others to do the same.
I think it's a given public will pay one way or another, subsidies will only last so long in addition, they are there to help kick start the new/alternative energy development, including the required infrastructure.

It's an interesting one considering Scotland and the desire to leave the UK in terms of there continued pointing to the offshore mainly revenues, which will be relatively scaled way back in the not to distant future, but don't need to get into it in terms of the political argument for leaving or not, but the new green deal will certainly play a part in the finances.

I find your last part interesting when coupled with the first part :) Cash is also on it's way out and the payment gateway world is developing rapidly for ease of use and lower costs, blockchain development and decentralised financial systems and crypto currency is akin to the energy transiting in financial terms. I for one, will not be going back to using cash much at all, I think we write one, at most two checks a week and can see that going away completely. But that's a different subject for a different time.

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Re: Green energy

Post by Peter Loo » Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:56 pm

KateR wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:36 pm
I think it's a given public will pay one way or another, subsidies will only last so long in addition, they are there to help kick start the new/alternative energy development, including the required infrastructure.

It's an interesting one considering Scotland and the desire to leave the UK in terms of there continued pointing to the offshore mainly revenues, which will be relatively scaled way back in the not to distant future, but don't need to get into it in terms of the political argument for leaving or not, but the new green deal will certainly play a part in the finances.

I find your last part interesting when coupled with the first part :) Cash is also on it's way out and the payment gateway world is developing rapidly for ease of use and lower costs, blockchain development and decentralised financial systems and crypto currency is akin to the energy transiting in financial terms. I for one, will not be going back to using cash much at all, I think we write one, at most two checks a week and can see that going away completely. But that's a different subject for a different time.
The main reason for these corporate crooks prospering at our expense is “giving up” so please don’t Kate, persistent opposition and a critical mass is the only way to beat these greedy so and so’s.
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KateR
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Re: Green energy

Post by KateR » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:43 pm

Peter Loo wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:56 pm
The main reason for these corporate crooks prospering at our expense is “giving up” so please don’t Kate, persistent opposition and a critical mass is the only way to beat these greedy so and so’s.
and I'm at the other end of that spectrum, the only way to stop them prospering is to take away what they crave so much, my money and every other single persons more for the absolute minimum, hence why my cash position is now at the lowest it's every been in my checking accounts for decades.

We all have different views on so many things, which is a good thing really, ut I truly believe the younger generation are moving away from banks because they have an alternative, I certainly never did, I remember moving to credit/debit cards with trepidation and some cynicism but that turned out ok, crypto is just following that same trend.

KateR
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Re: Green energy

Post by KateR » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:34 pm

For those interested in the Green Energy and where the future is pointing, below are "Key Findings" from the IEA report just released, which provides some sobering thoughts for me at least, some people are beginning to realize the strange weather we're experiencing just might come from the Global Warming predictions of yesteryear. Expect the heat/flooding, etc to get worse before it gets' better. In addition to below the full report is linked for anyone remotely interested:

https://www.iea.org/reports/sustainable ... s#abstract

As of the second quarter of 2021, governments around the world have allocated around USD 380 billion on clean energy measures as part of their economic response to the Covid-19 crisis. This is around 2% of the total fiscal support in response to Covid-19.

This government spending and new policies put in place since last year are expected to add an extra USD 350 billion a year to clean energy and electricity network spending between 2021 and 2023. This represents an increase of 30% over the levels seen in recent years.

Yet, this is only 35% of the amount envisaged by the IEA Sustainable Recovery Plan to put the world on track for net-zero emissions by 2050, while boosting global economic growth and creating millions of new jobs.

There are wide geographical differences in governments’ economic recovery measures. Most of the spending is in G20 economies. In advanced economies, recovery measures announced to date are expected to meet 60% of the investment needs set out for these economies in the Sustainable Recovery Plan.

In emerging and developing economies this share falls to 20%, where many countries focused their more limited fiscal leeway primarily on emergency health and economic measures. Some countries with more fiscal leeway may also be reticent to initiate large economic recovery spending programmes following the inflationary effects witnessed in the 2008 financial crisis.

Our analysis of over 800 policy measures across more than 50 countries shows that government spending for energy-related sustainable recovery measures has been primarily channelled through programmes that already exist such as energy efficiency grants, public procurement, utility plans and support for electric transport options.

We estimate that full and timely implementation of the economic recovery measures announced to date would result in CO2 emissions climbing to record levels in 2023 continuing to rise thereafter. While this trajectory is 800 million tonnes lower in 2023 than it would have be without any sustainable recovery efforts, it is nonetheless 3 500 million tonnes above the pathway set out in the recent IEA special report Net Zero by 2050: A Roadmap for the Global Energy Sector.

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Re: Green energy

Post by Hipper » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:17 am

From Kate's link:

https://www.iea.org/countries/united-kingdom

Some of those graphs look like we are doing quite well, especially considering the population has increased by around ten million (57 to 67 million) for the period covered (1990-2018).

Nevertheless, looking at the spread of energy sources we have a very long way to go, fossil fuels making up most of it.

I was surprised how big a proportion biofuels are but then the Drax power station works on wood pellets (imported):

https://www.drax.com/sustainable-bioene ... s-biomass/
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Re: Green energy

Post by Hipper » Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:09 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:57 pm
Hi PL, and, just thinking about taxation of road vehicle fuels and power sources: today we have large taxes on petrol and diesel, plus 20% VAT on those fuels, but we can now also power road vehicles with electricity and, it is also feasible to do with hydrogen. There is no "road vehicle usage" tax (or duty) on electricity - we can all plug our evs into our residential electric power to re-charge the batteries. If we do this we pay the (reduced) VAT of 5% and that is the only tax we pay. Similarly, there is no current "road vehicle usage" tax on hydrogen, and, as hydrogen is a contender to replace natural gas in home heating, I can't see how there could be a "road vehicle usage" tax imposed on hydrogen - it would only make it massively more expensive, compared with electricity, and so would defeat the aim of switching to zero carbon fuels.

It is, of course, interesting to think how future governments will "plug the gap" in tax revenues as ice vehicles fall in number through the decade following 2030. Will there be a "charge per mile" on private road vehicles or will taxation switch to other activities?
There will also be big international political changes. Countries who rely on funds from selling oil, coal or gas will, as (or if) they get less used, lose revenues. Many of these countries are not the most stable or politically friendly.

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Re: Green energy

Post by Hipper » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:48 am

The Engineers - Clean Energy, on BBC News 24 yesterday and for the next few days:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m ... ean-energy

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Re: Green energy

Post by Hipper » Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:46 am

Questions over the Greenness of Drax - a Panorama programme tonight:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-63089348
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Re: Green energy

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:00 pm

Two months of solar generation, October looks like I will have a bill to pay . However first month cost me £15, due to not have the export set up, not had my bill yet for Sept, but expect it to be zero. Green bar, electric generated, Orange consumption, Red export to the grid, blue battery being charged.
463AAF20-F68E-4322-8665-7C878FCC4465.png
463AAF20-F68E-4322-8665-7C878FCC4465.png (442.1 KiB) Viewed 555 times
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Re: Green energy

Post by KateR » Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:48 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:00 pm
Two months of solar generation, October looks like I will have a bill to pay . However first month cost me £15, due to not have the export set up, not had my bill yet for Sept, but expect it to be zero. Green bar, electric generated, Orange consumption, Red export to the grid, blue battery being charged.

463AAF20-F68E-4322-8665-7C878FCC4465.png
This looks really good, from reading many of your posts I'm sure you calculated the ROI from the installed/running costs, when do you expect to break even against your original method prior to installation?

Now you're actually operating it versus planning it after much study, have you discovered issues you never thought of, plans for improvements to maximize efficiency?

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Re: Green energy

Post by Taffy on the wing » Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:24 pm

Hipper wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:46 am
Questions over the Greenness of Drax - a Panorama programme tonight:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-63089348
Wood pellets are a nonsense!.......Loophole if you prefer.

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Re: Green energy

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:19 pm

KateR wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:48 pm
This looks really good, from reading many of your posts I'm sure you calculated the ROI from the installed/running costs, when do you expect to break even against your original method prior to installation?

Now you're actually operating it versus planning it after much study, have you discovered issues you never thought of, plans for improvements to maximize efficiency?
ROI was predicted to be 9 years based on electric being 28p per kWh and export rate of 5p per kWh.

The new rate after the Gov price cap is 34p per kWh and I am getting an average of around 20+p per kWh on export. So current ROI is around 6-7 years.

However there is an interesting twist, SWS told me they did a commission on sales that customers got through recommendations. Currently I have two sales and two ongoing quotes that I am sure will turn into orders. They have paid me my first two commissions at £250 per sale. Today I accepted an adhoc sales job based on commission so my ROI could be very quick if I get a few sales.

Learning on use of solar.
We now only run one of the dishwasher, washing machine or dryer at any one time. Plus do look at the weather and leave the washing machine for a sunny day if there is one. If not we just use it normally. We charge phones, iPads etc during the day, used to do them overnight. Apart from that nothing really, we already turned everything we don’t use at the plug . That had reduced our usage before the solar was fitted.

Once my bill is done t September I was going to do some screen shots and add them to the thread I created to show actual monetary facts for September.
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