But his new increased salary means that any suitors will be put off with his wage demands and almost certainly rules out clubs such as Palace ever being able to attract him, unless he were to take a massive pay cut.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:15 pmAchieving it and maintaing Premier League status would attract new investors but very likely lead to an unhappy manager once again.
Dyche to sign new contract !
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
-
- Posts: 19170
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
- Been Liked: 3116 times
- Has Liked: 481 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
Transfer fees for managers is becoming a normalised situation, the real issue is that many manager demand bringing a whole team with them, rather than working with what is largely in place - this is what causes the real difficulty as it means paying off the whole backroom you have in place along with paying for the new team. the economics of that are much more difficult to justify
-
- Posts: 67430
- Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
- Been Liked: 32242 times
- Has Liked: 5255 times
- Location: Burnley
- Contact:
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
The relationship between Garlick & Dyche very definitely didn’t bring about the sale. Garlick had been looking to sell long before the deterioration in their relationship. Must be 3-4 years now since the club put out the prospectus to potential buyers.
This user liked this post: cblantfanclub
-
- Posts: 19170
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
- Been Liked: 3116 times
- Has Liked: 481 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
I have seen nothing that stops me thinking it had a lot to do with the timing of the sale and the restricted options that created in who to sell too, that is different to the point you keep making. And yes I agree Garlick was freely talking about attracting investors when the relationship with Dyche was harmonious.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:39 pmThe relationship between Garlick & Dyche very definitely didn’t bring about the sale. Garlick had been looking to sell long before the deterioration in their relationship. Must be 3-4 years now since the club put out the prospectus to potential buyers.
-
- Posts: 67430
- Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
- Been Liked: 32242 times
- Has Liked: 5255 times
- Location: Burnley
- Contact:
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
The talks with ALK were ongoing prior to the manager/chairman fall out.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:45 pmI have seen nothing that stops me thinking it had a lot to do with the timing of the sale and the restricted options that created in who to sell too, that is different to the point you keep making. And yes I agree Garlick was freely talking about attracting investors when the relationship with Dyche was harmonious.
-
- Posts: 19170
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
- Been Liked: 3116 times
- Has Liked: 481 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
as were others, the deal happened after the fall out though and some would argue that it may not have been the best for the club in the long term but was the best available at the moment when it was most needed to retain the manager. Remember Garlick wanted the investment because the old board did not have financial means to build the club in the way they wanted - that is on public recordClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:47 pmThe talks with ALK were ongoing prior to the manager/chairman fall out.
Last edited by Chester Perry on Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 67430
- Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
- Been Liked: 32242 times
- Has Liked: 5255 times
- Location: Burnley
- Contact:
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
But it’s not the case. It was nothing to do with the relationship between chairman and manager.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:56 pmas were others, the deal happened after the fall out though and some would argue that it may not have been the best for the club in the long term but was the best available at the moment when it was most needed to retain the manager.
-
- Posts: 19170
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
- Been Liked: 3116 times
- Has Liked: 481 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
ok - I have clearly explained my take on it all - particularly looking at the wider picture a number of times - it's over to you to do something similar if you want to reach an agreeable conclusionClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:57 pmBut it’s not the case. It was nothing to do with the relationship between chairman and manager.
-
- Posts: 67430
- Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
- Been Liked: 32242 times
- Has Liked: 5255 times
- Location: Burnley
- Contact:
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
I’ve no intentions of expanding on it. I know what the situation was. You choose not to believe me which is you prerogative.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:00 pmok - I have clearly explained my take on it all - particularly looking at the wider picture a number of times - it's over to you to do something similar if you want to reach an agreeable conclusion
This user liked this post: Turfytop
-
- Posts: 19170
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
- Been Liked: 3116 times
- Has Liked: 481 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
I choose to believe that here was much more feeding into the situation and seek to work my way though that by looking at the public record, and add it to the binary take you employ.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:03 pmI’ve no intentions of expanding on it. I know what the situation was. You choose not to believe me which is you prerogative.
-
- Posts: 67430
- Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
- Been Liked: 32242 times
- Has Liked: 5255 times
- Location: Burnley
- Contact:
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
As I’ve said, I know what I know.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:09 pmI choose to believe that here was much more feeding into the situation and seek to work my way though that by looking at the public record, and add it to the binary take you employ.
-
- Posts: 19170
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
- Been Liked: 3116 times
- Has Liked: 481 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
and we both don't know what we don't know - which is often more telling
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
I do wonder if the reason Dyche and Garlick fell out so badly is because Dyche knew there was a large pit of money but Garlick had reserved it to transfer into his own bank account rather than use it to buy players. (We know that's what ultimately happened, though we don't know when that became Garlick's plan.)Chester Perry wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:45 pmI have seen nothing that stops me thinking it had a lot to do with the timing of the sale and the restricted options that created in who to sell too, that is different to the point you keep making. And yes I agree Garlick was freely talking about attracting investors when the relationship with Dyche was harmonious.
-
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:11 pm
- Been Liked: 117 times
- Has Liked: 305 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
/
Last edited by cblantfanclub on Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 19170
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
- Been Liked: 3116 times
- Has Liked: 481 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
that pot of money is far from being as large as most people think it was when you take away the accruals to reveal the actual reservesdsr wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:16 pmI do wonder if the reason Dyche and Garlick fell out so badly is because Dyche knew there was a large pit of money but Garlick had reserved it to transfer into his own bank account rather than use it to buy players. (We know that's what ultimately happened, though we don't know when that became Garlick's plan.)
-
- Posts: 67430
- Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
- Been Liked: 32242 times
- Has Liked: 5255 times
- Location: Burnley
- Contact:
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
Fell out over transfers, not specifically money related.dsr wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:16 pmI do wonder if the reason Dyche and Garlick fell out so badly is because Dyche knew there was a large pit of money but Garlick had reserved it to transfer into his own bank account rather than use it to buy players. (We know that's what ultimately happened, though we don't know when that became Garlick's plan.)
-
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:11 pm
- Been Liked: 117 times
- Has Liked: 305 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
I'm sure the reason for the sale happening when it did was simply that at last Garlick had found someone to buy it. It was documented in the press, particularly the Times that he had been in negotiation with people for the previous 4 years.
-
- Posts: 19170
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
- Been Liked: 3116 times
- Has Liked: 481 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
I understand that, particularly the Drinkwater loan and no doubt other talks for players identified by the club but not Dyche approved (Wilson comes to mind)ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:25 pmFell out over transfers, not specifically money related.
- however that has not stopped Dyche repeatedly speaking publicly about money available to him to spend on both fees and wages
-
- Posts: 19170
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
- Been Liked: 3116 times
- Has Liked: 481 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
The ratio of enquires/discussion that turn into sales in the Premier League is incredibly low following China's exit from buying clubs- Palace and Newcastle have been up for sale for 4 years or more and Southampton around 3 years - one investor walked away from the Saints after over 2 years of talks he also looked at Palace and Newcastle. We sold primarily because of the disciplined financial restraint the club was used to employingcblantfanclub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:28 pmI'm sure the reason for the sale happening when it did was simply that at last Garlick had found someone to buy it. It was documented in the press, particularly the Times that he had been in negotiation with people for the previous 4 years.
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
Nonetheless, the pot was there. Now even Paul "exciting times" Waine reckons we will likely have to sell in order to buy.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:23 pmthat pot of money is far from being as large as most people think it was when you take away the accruals to reveal the actual reserves
-
- Posts: 19170
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
- Been Liked: 3116 times
- Has Liked: 481 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
just to show the difference - Cash minus accruals in the accounts over the last few years
2019/20 - £24.4m
2018/19 - £17.1m
2017/18 - £7.6m
2016/17 - £1.2m
and looking at football costs Wages + Amortisation to Revenue Ratio
2019/20 - 98.9%
2018/19 - 90%
2017/18 - 78.6%
2016/17 - 69%
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
Even though I don't think we'll be relegated whilst SD is in charge if the worse does happen will there be any back up plan in place, such as a relegation clause on SD's contract?
Also, it's fairly obvious that TV revenues and marketing opportunities will pretty much dry up outside of the Prem. Other than selling players it seems a boom or bust approach that we are taking.
Also, it's fairly obvious that TV revenues and marketing opportunities will pretty much dry up outside of the Prem. Other than selling players it seems a boom or bust approach that we are taking.
-
- Posts: 19170
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
- Been Liked: 3116 times
- Has Liked: 481 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
I think most would assume that Dyche is our best route to promotion, whether he would stay is a different point - the key is to do it whilke in receipt of parachutes - though a regulator may put an end to themSpijed wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:22 pmEven though I don't think we'll be relegated whilst SD is in charge if the worse does happen will there be any back up plan in place, such as a relegation clause on SD's contract?
Also, it's fairly obvious that TV revenues and marketing opportunities will pretty much dry up outside of the Prem. Other than selling players it seems a boom or bust approach that we are taking.
-
- Posts: 9845
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
- Been Liked: 2344 times
- Has Liked: 3164 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
Logic suggests Sean Dyche is on a bonus to remain in Premier League. Thus, relegation means no bonus for the relegation season - and the prospect of a bonus when promotion back to Premier League achieved.Spijed wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:22 pmEven though I don't think we'll be relegated whilst SD is in charge if the worse does happen will there be any back up plan in place, such as a relegation clause on SD's contract?
Also, it's fairly obvious that TV revenues and marketing opportunities will pretty much dry up outside of the Prem. Other than selling players it seems a boom or bust approach that we are taking.
-
- Posts: 9845
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
- Been Liked: 2344 times
- Has Liked: 3164 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
Hi dsr, have I said that "there's no money to transfer in new players without selling first?" Or, have I said that if Tarks (or others) are sold, the money will be reinvested in new players?
I'm confident the club's owners have got money to invest in building the team and the squad, and that was in their plans when they agreed to buy the club.
I'm also confident that Mike Garlick knew that he (and all the previous directors) had to sell their shares to new owners who could take the club forward, because it was beyond the previous owners financial resources to do what was needed.
Yes, exciting times.
UTC
-
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:34 am
- Been Liked: 42 times
- Has Liked: 288 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
Dyche spotted on the outgoings from the Mallorca airport!
Maybe on his way back to sign da ting?
Maybe on his way back to sign da ting?
- Attachments
-
- F9FD923E-6F75-44A6-9EC7-710D79B74366.jpeg (108.26 KiB) Viewed 3355 times
-
- Posts: 13225
- Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
- Been Liked: 3037 times
- Has Liked: 3759 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
Is that not 10 days in isolation now?WiscoClaret wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:22 pmDyche spotted on the outgoings from the Mallorca airport!
Maybe on his way back to sign da ting?
-
- Posts: 2487
- Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:21 am
- Been Liked: 1658 times
- Has Liked: 2963 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
Looks like a baggage reclaim area... So going in to majorca
-
- Posts: 30275
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
- Been Liked: 10917 times
- Has Liked: 5594 times
- Location: clue is in the title
-
- Posts: 3479
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:50 pm
- Been Liked: 660 times
- Has Liked: 205 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
Never seen a baggage carousel in departures, but never been to that airport
-
- Posts: 30275
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
- Been Liked: 10917 times
- Has Liked: 5594 times
- Location: clue is in the title
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
just to confirm the original tweet
- Attachments
-
- Screenshot 2021-06-30 7.19.38 AM.png (1.16 MiB) Viewed 3063 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
When do players report back?
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
Do they sell pens in the duty free area ?
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
That was never a pen!!!!!
-
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:29 pm
- Been Liked: 24 times
- Has Liked: 45 times
-
- Posts: 13225
- Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
- Been Liked: 3037 times
- Has Liked: 3759 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
Dyche will have a chance to peel before he returns to Barnfield then
-
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:29 pm
- Been Liked: 24 times
- Has Liked: 45 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
Where is our new found wealth coming from? £12m+ on a new player to start the window, £100k+ a week for Dyche on a 5 year deal, club in debt and having to pay off £7m a year interest. Has Pace been on the phone to Mr Dell again?Chester Perry wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:49 pmprobably well over £40m with bonuses
and that figure was over £100k pw not £100k pw
-
- Posts: 399
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:51 am
- Been Liked: 153 times
- Has Liked: 180 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
Thehistoryteacher wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:31 pmMy lad has been back in this week but I think he said the 8th for the majority of the players
Sorry if this question has been asked before or if I’m the only one who doesn’t know, but, Who is your lad?
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
It's very much sink or swim, if we are relegated and don't bounce back we are royally fooked. Huge wage bill, very few players with any kind of resale value, debt up to our necks, we pay £6-7m a year interest on the loan. It will be very sad to see us firesale the few players we have if relegated just to try keep our heads above water with the debts. The current debt wont be the only debt either, that number with MSD will climb as will the interest.Spijed wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:22 pmEven though I don't think we'll be relegated whilst SD is in charge if the worse does happen will there be any back up plan in place, such as a relegation clause on SD's contract?
Also, it's fairly obvious that TV revenues and marketing opportunities will pretty much dry up outside of the Prem. Other than selling players it seems a boom or bust approach that we are taking.
-
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:29 pm
- Been Liked: 24 times
- Has Liked: 45 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
clive40golf wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:15 pmSorry if this question has been asked before or if I’m the only one who doesn’t know, but, Who is your lad?
Our eldest is a physiotherapist - which is why I don't comment much on injuries - transfers - secrets/medicals etc
Not that I'd ask him or he would tell me about anything medical as he is bound by the hippocratic oath the same as any other medical professional
But if you want post-1750 British and European History ,football memorabilia, non-league football or subbuteo then I can help/ talk a glass eye to sleep
Last edited by Thehistoryteacher on Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
These 2 users liked this post: bfcjg clive40golf
-
- Posts: 19170
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
- Been Liked: 3116 times
- Has Liked: 481 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
It is a combination of things really
last season saw a likely significant drop in the wage budget and we have been driving down the amortisation in the last couple of years too, theoretically there are no more rebates to pay after this season (though we still do not know how the losses on the Chinese TV deal are to be met), fans are expected to return in some form (if maybe not at full capacity) and there are initiatives on the commercial front so revenues are expected to grow somewhat - so as I have said previously there is room in the budget for a few players and transfer costs of around £12m a year. I suspect the shorter of the two MSD loans is a flexible one (like the one West Ham have) which would explain the different loan values reported at the time of the takeover (exercised value vs maximum value). If cash is short this could be used for the upfront money in the transfer deals.
The old board could have done something similar this summer (using reserves), it is just hugely unlikely Sean would have entertained a deal with Garlick in charge at this stage- it is noticeable that there is no Garlick (though he is still a board member), Hart or Rigg in the picture that has seen a happier manager reportedly contemplate a new deal this summer.
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
I always thought we were one of the best run clubs, and yet it could be very worrying were we to drop, which we will eventually do one day.KRBFC wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:19 pmIt's very much sink or swim, if we are relegated and don't bounce back we are royally fooked. Huge wage bill, very few players with any kind of resale value, debt up to our necks, we pay £6-7m a year interest on the loan. It will be very sad to see us firesale the few players we have if relegated just to try keep our heads above water with the debts. The current debt wont be the only debt either, that number with MSD will climb as will the interest.
-
- Posts: 19170
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
- Been Liked: 3116 times
- Has Liked: 481 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
The issue with a relegation, is which players (and management) are prepared to stay and seek promotion, we should be ok if we did what we did last time and come straight back up with a largely stable squad, beyond that it quickly gets difficult - this is where the non-tv revenue is so important - in their promotion year Leeds almost matches our commercial revenues from retail sales alone.KRBFC wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:19 pmIt's very much sink or swim, if we are relegated and don't bounce back we are royally fooked. Huge wage bill, very few players with any kind of resale value, debt up to our necks, we pay £6-7m a year interest on the loan. It will be very sad to see us firesale the few players we have if relegated just to try keep our heads above water with the debts. The current debt wont be the only debt either, that number with MSD will climb as will the interest.
-
- Posts: 19170
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:06 am
- Been Liked: 3116 times
- Has Liked: 481 times
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
That is a subjective assessment, there are many reasonable arguments that suggest we could have exercised debt as an efficient way to grow the club - and yes I have been one who has consistently spoken about a dislike for debt in football. I have less of an issue if the debt is used invest in efforts to grow the annual revenues in the long term
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
banking on a quick return after relegation is a pretty shaky plan, I think player signings are so important now, young players with resale who we can offload to raise funds in the future weather that is to raise funds for further transfers or to pay back debts after relegation. We need to be very careful we aren't frittering away precious millions.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:37 pmThe issue with a relegation, is which players (and management) are prepared to stay and seek promotion, we should be ok if we did what we did last time and come straight back up with a largely stable squad, beyond that it quickly gets difficult - this is where the non-tv revenue is so important - in their promotion year Leeds almost matches our commercial revenues from retail sales alone.
With Tarkowski worth £0 next summer, if we were relegated who could we actually sell to try pay back debts and keep our head above water? Pope and Mcneil but that probably covers the debt.
Re: Dyche to sign new contract !
I also forgot to mention, if relegated we still have to pay transfer fees which I think are now paid over the length of contract.