Dyche to sign new contract !

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Spijed
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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Spijed » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:24 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:15 pm
Achieving it and maintaing Premier League status would attract new investors but very likely lead to an unhappy manager once again.
But his new increased salary means that any suitors will be put off with his wage demands and almost certainly rules out clubs such as Palace ever being able to attract him, unless he were to take a massive pay cut.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:33 pm

Spijed wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:24 pm
But his new increased salary means that any suitors will be put off with his wage demands and almost certainly rules out clubs such as Palace ever being able to attract him, unless he were to take a massive pay cut.
Transfer fees for managers is becoming a normalised situation, the real issue is that many manager demand bringing a whole team with them, rather than working with what is largely in place - this is what causes the real difficulty as it means paying off the whole backroom you have in place along with paying for the new team. the economics of that are much more difficult to justify

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:39 pm

The relationship between Garlick & Dyche very definitely didn’t bring about the sale. Garlick had been looking to sell long before the deterioration in their relationship. Must be 3-4 years now since the club put out the prospectus to potential buyers.
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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:45 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:39 pm
The relationship between Garlick & Dyche very definitely didn’t bring about the sale. Garlick had been looking to sell long before the deterioration in their relationship. Must be 3-4 years now since the club put out the prospectus to potential buyers.
I have seen nothing that stops me thinking it had a lot to do with the timing of the sale and the restricted options that created in who to sell too, that is different to the point you keep making. And yes I agree Garlick was freely talking about attracting investors when the relationship with Dyche was harmonious.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:47 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:45 pm
I have seen nothing that stops me thinking it had a lot to do with the timing of the sale and the restricted options that created in who to sell too, that is different to the point you keep making. And yes I agree Garlick was freely talking about attracting investors when the relationship with Dyche was harmonious.
The talks with ALK were ongoing prior to the manager/chairman fall out.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:56 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:47 pm
The talks with ALK were ongoing prior to the manager/chairman fall out.
as were others, the deal happened after the fall out though and some would argue that it may not have been the best for the club in the long term but was the best available at the moment when it was most needed to retain the manager. Remember Garlick wanted the investment because the old board did not have financial means to build the club in the way they wanted - that is on public record
Last edited by Chester Perry on Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:57 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:56 pm
as were others, the deal happened after the fall out though and some would argue that it may not have been the best for the club in the long term but was the best available at the moment when it was most needed to retain the manager.
But it’s not the case. It was nothing to do with the relationship between chairman and manager.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:00 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:57 pm
But it’s not the case. It was nothing to do with the relationship between chairman and manager.
ok - I have clearly explained my take on it all - particularly looking at the wider picture a number of times - it's over to you to do something similar if you want to reach an agreeable conclusion

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:03 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:00 pm
ok - I have clearly explained my take on it all - particularly looking at the wider picture a number of times - it's over to you to do something similar if you want to reach an agreeable conclusion
I’ve no intentions of expanding on it. I know what the situation was. You choose not to believe me which is you prerogative.
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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:09 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:03 pm
I’ve no intentions of expanding on it. I know what the situation was. You choose not to believe me which is you prerogative.
I choose to believe that here was much more feeding into the situation and seek to work my way though that by looking at the public record, and add it to the binary take you employ.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:10 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:09 pm
I choose to believe that here was much more feeding into the situation and seek to work my way though that by looking at the public record, and add it to the binary take you employ.
As I’ve said, I know what I know.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:11 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:10 pm
As I’ve said, I know what I know.
and we both don't know what we don't know - which is often more telling

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by dsr » Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:16 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:45 pm
I have seen nothing that stops me thinking it had a lot to do with the timing of the sale and the restricted options that created in who to sell too, that is different to the point you keep making. And yes I agree Garlick was freely talking about attracting investors when the relationship with Dyche was harmonious.
I do wonder if the reason Dyche and Garlick fell out so badly is because Dyche knew there was a large pit of money but Garlick had reserved it to transfer into his own bank account rather than use it to buy players. (We know that's what ultimately happened, though we don't know when that became Garlick's plan.)

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by cblantfanclub » Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:22 pm

/
Last edited by cblantfanclub on Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:23 pm

dsr wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:16 pm
I do wonder if the reason Dyche and Garlick fell out so badly is because Dyche knew there was a large pit of money but Garlick had reserved it to transfer into his own bank account rather than use it to buy players. (We know that's what ultimately happened, though we don't know when that became Garlick's plan.)
that pot of money is far from being as large as most people think it was when you take away the accruals to reveal the actual reserves

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:25 pm

dsr wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:16 pm
I do wonder if the reason Dyche and Garlick fell out so badly is because Dyche knew there was a large pit of money but Garlick had reserved it to transfer into his own bank account rather than use it to buy players. (We know that's what ultimately happened, though we don't know when that became Garlick's plan.)
Fell out over transfers, not specifically money related.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by cblantfanclub » Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:28 pm

I'm sure the reason for the sale happening when it did was simply that at last Garlick had found someone to buy it. It was documented in the press, particularly the Times that he had been in negotiation with people for the previous 4 years.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:30 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:25 pm
Fell out over transfers, not specifically money related.
I understand that, particularly the Drinkwater loan and no doubt other talks for players identified by the club but not Dyche approved (Wilson comes to mind)

- however that has not stopped Dyche repeatedly speaking publicly about money available to him to spend on both fees and wages

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:33 pm

cblantfanclub wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:28 pm
I'm sure the reason for the sale happening when it did was simply that at last Garlick had found someone to buy it. It was documented in the press, particularly the Times that he had been in negotiation with people for the previous 4 years.
The ratio of enquires/discussion that turn into sales in the Premier League is incredibly low following China's exit from buying clubs- Palace and Newcastle have been up for sale for 4 years or more and Southampton around 3 years - one investor walked away from the Saints after over 2 years of talks he also looked at Palace and Newcastle. We sold primarily because of the disciplined financial restraint the club was used to employing

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by dsr » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:01 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:23 pm
that pot of money is far from being as large as most people think it was when you take away the accruals to reveal the actual reserves
Nonetheless, the pot was there. Now even Paul "exciting times" Waine reckons we will likely have to sell in order to buy.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:15 pm

dsr wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:01 pm
Nonetheless, the pot was there. Now even Paul "exciting times" Waine reckons we will likely have to sell in order to buy.
just to show the difference - Cash minus accruals in the accounts over the last few years

2019/20 - £24.4m
2018/19 - £17.1m
2017/18 - £7.6m
2016/17 - £1.2m

and looking at football costs Wages + Amortisation to Revenue Ratio

2019/20 - 98.9%
2018/19 - 90%
2017/18 - 78.6%
2016/17 - 69%

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Spijed » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:22 pm

Even though I don't think we'll be relegated whilst SD is in charge if the worse does happen will there be any back up plan in place, such as a relegation clause on SD's contract?

Also, it's fairly obvious that TV revenues and marketing opportunities will pretty much dry up outside of the Prem. Other than selling players it seems a boom or bust approach that we are taking.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:25 pm

Spijed wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:22 pm
Even though I don't think we'll be relegated whilst SD is in charge if the worse does happen will there be any back up plan in place, such as a relegation clause on SD's contract?

Also, it's fairly obvious that TV revenues and marketing opportunities will pretty much dry up outside of the Prem. Other than selling players it seems a boom or bust approach that we are taking.
I think most would assume that Dyche is our best route to promotion, whether he would stay is a different point - the key is to do it whilke in receipt of parachutes - though a regulator may put an end to them

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Paul Waine » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:33 pm

Spijed wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:22 pm
Even though I don't think we'll be relegated whilst SD is in charge if the worse does happen will there be any back up plan in place, such as a relegation clause on SD's contract?

Also, it's fairly obvious that TV revenues and marketing opportunities will pretty much dry up outside of the Prem. Other than selling players it seems a boom or bust approach that we are taking.
Logic suggests Sean Dyche is on a bonus to remain in Premier League. Thus, relegation means no bonus for the relegation season - and the prospect of a bonus when promotion back to Premier League achieved.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Paul Waine » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:41 pm

dsr wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:01 pm
Nonetheless, the pot was there. Now even Paul "exciting times" Waine reckons we will likely have to sell in order to buy.
Hi dsr, have I said that "there's no money to transfer in new players without selling first?" Or, have I said that if Tarks (or others) are sold, the money will be reinvested in new players?

I'm confident the club's owners have got money to invest in building the team and the squad, and that was in their plans when they agreed to buy the club.

I'm also confident that Mike Garlick knew that he (and all the previous directors) had to sell their shares to new owners who could take the club forward, because it was beyond the previous owners financial resources to do what was needed.

Yes, exciting times.

UTC

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by WiscoClaret » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:22 pm

Dyche spotted on the outgoings from the Mallorca airport!

Maybe on his way back to sign da ting?
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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by NewClaret » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:24 pm

WiscoClaret wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:22 pm
Dyche spotted on the outgoings from the Mallorca airport!

Maybe on his way back to sign da ting?
Is that not 10 days in isolation now? :(

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Andingle » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:38 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:24 pm
Is that not 10 days in isolation now? :(
No , definitely 14 days in Mallorca 😏

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Stalbansclaret » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:50 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:24 pm
Is that not 10 days in isolation now? :(
No..not for the Balearics

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Grumps » Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:52 pm

Looks like a baggage reclaim area... So going in to majorca

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Vegas Claret » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:16 pm

Grumps wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:52 pm
Looks like a baggage reclaim area... So going in to majorca
yep, I think the original tweet even says "Dyche was on our flight to Majorca" !!!!!!

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by dermotdermot » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:17 pm

Grumps wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:52 pm
Looks like a baggage reclaim area... So going in to majorca
No, leaving Majorca. He looks very pink.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Grumps » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:18 pm

Never seen a baggage carousel in departures, but never been to that airport

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Vegas Claret » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:20 pm

Grumps wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:18 pm
Never seen a baggage carousel in departures, but never been to that airport
just to confirm the original tweet
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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by jtv » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:35 pm

When do players report back?

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by bfcjg » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:57 pm

Do they sell pens in the duty free area ?

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Dougall » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:04 pm

:o That was never a pen!!!!!

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Thehistoryteacher » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:10 pm

jtv wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:35 pm
When do players report back?
A week tomorrow

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by NewClaret » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:23 pm

Thehistoryteacher wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:10 pm
A week tomorrow
Dyche will have a chance to peel before he returns to Barnfield then :lol:

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Thehistoryteacher » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:31 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:23 pm
Dyche will have a chance to peel before he returns to Barnfield then :lol:
My lad has been back in this week but I think he said the 8th for the majority of the players

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by KRBFC » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:03 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:49 pm
probably well over £40m with bonuses

and that figure was over £100k pw not £100k pw
Where is our new found wealth coming from? £12m+ on a new player to start the window, £100k+ a week for Dyche on a 5 year deal, club in debt and having to pay off £7m a year interest. Has Pace been on the phone to Mr Dell again?

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by clive40golf » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:15 pm

Thehistoryteacher wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:31 pm
My lad has been back in this week but I think he said the 8th for the majority of the players


Sorry if this question has been asked before or if I’m the only one who doesn’t know, but, Who is your lad?

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by KRBFC » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:19 pm

Spijed wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:22 pm
Even though I don't think we'll be relegated whilst SD is in charge if the worse does happen will there be any back up plan in place, such as a relegation clause on SD's contract?

Also, it's fairly obvious that TV revenues and marketing opportunities will pretty much dry up outside of the Prem. Other than selling players it seems a boom or bust approach that we are taking.
It's very much sink or swim, if we are relegated and don't bounce back we are royally fooked. Huge wage bill, very few players with any kind of resale value, debt up to our necks, we pay £6-7m a year interest on the loan. It will be very sad to see us firesale the few players we have if relegated just to try keep our heads above water with the debts. The current debt wont be the only debt either, that number with MSD will climb as will the interest.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Thehistoryteacher » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:25 pm

clive40golf wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:15 pm
Sorry if this question has been asked before or if I’m the only one who doesn’t know, but, Who is your lad?

Our eldest is a physiotherapist - which is why I don't comment much on injuries - transfers - secrets/medicals etc

Not that I'd ask him or he would tell me about anything medical as he is bound by the hippocratic oath the same as any other medical professional

But if you want post-1750 British and European History ,football memorabilia, non-league football or subbuteo then I can help/ talk a glass eye to sleep :lol:
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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:32 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:03 pm
Where is our new found wealth coming from? £12m+ on a new player to start the window, £100k+ a week for Dyche on a 5 year deal, club in debt and having to pay off £7m a year interest. Has Pace been on the phone to Mr Dell again?
It is a combination of things really

last season saw a likely significant drop in the wage budget and we have been driving down the amortisation in the last couple of years too, theoretically there are no more rebates to pay after this season (though we still do not know how the losses on the Chinese TV deal are to be met), fans are expected to return in some form (if maybe not at full capacity) and there are initiatives on the commercial front so revenues are expected to grow somewhat - so as I have said previously there is room in the budget for a few players and transfer costs of around £12m a year. I suspect the shorter of the two MSD loans is a flexible one (like the one West Ham have) which would explain the different loan values reported at the time of the takeover (exercised value vs maximum value). If cash is short this could be used for the upfront money in the transfer deals.

The old board could have done something similar this summer (using reserves), it is just hugely unlikely Sean would have entertained a deal with Garlick in charge at this stage- it is noticeable that there is no Garlick (though he is still a board member), Hart or Rigg in the picture that has seen a happier manager reportedly contemplate a new deal this summer.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Spijed » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:32 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:19 pm
It's very much sink or swim, if we are relegated and don't bounce back we are royally fooked. Huge wage bill, very few players with any kind of resale value, debt up to our necks, we pay £6-7m a year interest on the loan. It will be very sad to see us firesale the few players we have if relegated just to try keep our heads above water with the debts. The current debt wont be the only debt either, that number with MSD will climb as will the interest.
I always thought we were one of the best run clubs, and yet it could be very worrying were we to drop, which we will eventually do one day.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:37 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:19 pm
It's very much sink or swim, if we are relegated and don't bounce back we are royally fooked. Huge wage bill, very few players with any kind of resale value, debt up to our necks, we pay £6-7m a year interest on the loan. It will be very sad to see us firesale the few players we have if relegated just to try keep our heads above water with the debts. The current debt wont be the only debt either, that number with MSD will climb as will the interest.
The issue with a relegation, is which players (and management) are prepared to stay and seek promotion, we should be ok if we did what we did last time and come straight back up with a largely stable squad, beyond that it quickly gets difficult - this is where the non-tv revenue is so important - in their promotion year Leeds almost matches our commercial revenues from retail sales alone.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:47 pm

Spijed wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:32 pm
I always thought we were one of the best run clubs, and yet it could be very worrying were we to drop, which we will eventually do one day.
That is a subjective assessment, there are many reasonable arguments that suggest we could have exercised debt as an efficient way to grow the club - and yes I have been one who has consistently spoken about a dislike for debt in football. I have less of an issue if the debt is used invest in efforts to grow the annual revenues in the long term

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by KRBFC » Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:02 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:37 pm
The issue with a relegation, is which players (and management) are prepared to stay and seek promotion, we should be ok if we did what we did last time and come straight back up with a largely stable squad, beyond that it quickly gets difficult - this is where the non-tv revenue is so important - in their promotion year Leeds almost matches our commercial revenues from retail sales alone.
banking on a quick return after relegation is a pretty shaky plan, I think player signings are so important now, young players with resale who we can offload to raise funds in the future weather that is to raise funds for further transfers or to pay back debts after relegation. We need to be very careful we aren't frittering away precious millions.

With Tarkowski worth £0 next summer, if we were relegated who could we actually sell to try pay back debts and keep our head above water? Pope and Mcneil but that probably covers the debt.

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Re: Dyche to sign new contract !

Post by KRBFC » Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:05 pm

I also forgot to mention, if relegated we still have to pay transfer fees which I think are now paid over the length of contract.

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