England v Romania

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Rowls
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Re: England v Romania

Post by Rowls » Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:15 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:57 pm
But why would he risk the big names of burn out/injuries in friendlies, days before the Euros where we have a real chance of winning it all? Like I said, recharged refreshed and ready to go in the Euros is all that matters from these friendlies.
"burn out"

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Re: England v Romania

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:15 pm

Claretitus wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:02 pm
Mings will cost us IF he plays. I’ve never seen a centre half man -handle/ foul his opponent as much as him. He’s dogger.
Exactly Mings is an accident waiting to happen, he could have easily given a pen away in the Austria game, and he looked dodgy today as well.

And but for Sam Johnstone pulling off a wonder stop Romania would have deservedly equalised, the fear I have is teams such as Belgium, France, Italy & Spain to name but 4 won't be as wasteful when the chances present themselves, and believe me whoever plays in the England defence we will concede chances.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:17 pm

is there any point of a warm up game where so many of the players you want to choose are not available?

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Re: England v Romania

Post by RVclaret » Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:18 pm

A back four of Walker Stones Maguire and Shaw with Rice/Hendo (or Bellingham) in front is actually quite solid on paper. Maguire has been excellent for United this year and we will miss him a lot if he doesn’t make it.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by Winstonswhite » Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:22 pm

If we’re lacking in one area I don’t think we are clinical enough in turning possession into goals.

I suppose the game has changed but if we had competition for places with goal scorers the defence would be less of an issue.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by Rowls » Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:25 pm

Winstonswhite wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:22 pm
If we’re lacking in one area I don’t think we are clinical enough in turning possession into goals.

I suppose the game has changed but if we had competition for places with goal scorers the defence would be less of an issue.
Turning possession into goals in certainly one of the areas Southgate's England are exceptionally poor.

We create very few chances from open play so it's no surprise.

Another area that is very poor for Southgate's England is "defending".
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Re: England v Romania

Post by bobinho » Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:49 pm

This tournament will like all the others.... a massive anti-climax.

It will be like that because we have started to rely on playing the possession football the really, really good sides play, as opposed to actually playing a more 'natural' game and allowing it to ebb and flow. In maintaining possession at all costs (presumably because we can't be hurt if we have the ball) we actually have forgotten how to attack with purpose and defend with tenacity and resoluteness. Massive shame when you look at the wealth of attacking talent we have at our disposal. We are almost scared to play. Games we DO win will be won by the odd goal.

I genuinely believe that an up to strength and up to par (all players playing at their best) Burnley would beat England.

We should be a worry for the other teams in there... but we aren't. We should be playing for the trophy, but we won't be. Quarter finals at best i'm afraid.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by Buxtonclaret » Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:08 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:15 pm
Exactly Mings is an accident waiting to happen, he could have easily given a pen away in the Austria game, and he looked dodgy today as well.

And but for Sam Johnstone pulling off a wonder stop Romania would have deservedly equalised, the fear I have is teams such as Belgium, France, Italy & Spain to name but 4 won't be as wasteful when the chances present themselves, and believe me whoever plays in the England defence we will concede chances.
How the hell Ming's gets caps ahead of Tarks, or even Ben, is a mystery.
Only my opinion, but genuinely never rated him above our two.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by Winstonswhite » Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:22 pm

bobinho wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:49 pm
This tournament will like all the others.... a massive anti-climax.

It will be like that because we have started to rely on playing the possession football the really, really good sides play, as opposed to actually playing a more 'natural' game and allowing it to ebb and flow. In maintaining possession at all costs (presumably because we can't be hurt if we have the ball) we actually have forgotten how to attack with purpose and defend with tenacity and resoluteness. Massive shame when you look at the wealth of attacking talent we have at our disposal. We are almost scared to play. Games we DO win will be won by the odd goal.

I genuinely believe that an up to strength and up to par (all players playing at their best) Burnley would beat England.

We should be a worry for the other teams in there... but we aren't. We should be playing for the trophy, but we won't be. Quarter finals at best i'm afraid.
How can it possibly be an anti climax when 99% of people say we’ll do nothing?!!

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Re: England v Romania

Post by BabylonClaret » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:05 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:54 pm
I'm not a Southgate fan but the negativity on here when England play a friendly is weird, get over it Tarkowski, Mee, Cork and Brownhill aren't in the squad. Lets see how England do in the Euros, hopefully win it.
Absolutely no chance at all we will get past the round of 16. We struggle to manage games out. I used to think Soutjgate was a good choice. Right now I think he's out of his depth. Bringing on Watkins was pointless. In fact the selection today rendered the whole game pointless- either its a warm up (in which case get most of your starting team in) or you're still figuring out any final changes (in which case don't be playing players wgobarent even going to be there.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by BabylonClaret » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:06 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:57 pm
But why would he risk the big names of burn out/injuries in friendlies, days before the Euros where we have a real chance of winning it all? Like I said, recharged refreshed and ready to go in the Euros is all that matters from these friendlies.
If that's the case why are we playing friendlies the week before the tournament? Mental

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Re: England v Romania

Post by KRBFC » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:08 pm

Rowls wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:15 pm
"burn out"
Yes burnout is real, money doesn't refresh the body, they're humans not robots. There was barely a pre-season gap between the previous two seasons. Athletes get tired no matter how much money they earn, crazy concept that aint it??? mind blowing stuff

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Re: England v Romania

Post by KRBFC » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:09 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:06 pm
If that's the case why are we playing friendlies the week before the tournament? Mental
Get minutes into the legs of Henderson, Grealish and the rest who've recently been injured. Top up those in need of minutes, nothing more than a fitness exercise.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by Rowls » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:10 pm

"Professional footballers should be able to play football endlessly because they are well paid."

Oh no. Hang on. Nobody ever said that.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by KRBFC » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:13 pm

bobinho wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:49 pm

I genuinely believe that an up to strength and up to par (all players playing at their best) Burnley would beat England.

We should be a worry for the other teams in there... but we aren't. We should be playing for the trophy, but we won't be. Quarter finals at best i'm afraid.
Aye course we would :lol: Tarkowsi and Mee get absolutely pasted away from home at big sides, have we ever not conceded 5 against City at the Etihad?

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Re: England v Romania

Post by KRBFC » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:13 pm

Rowls wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:10 pm
"Professional footballers should be able to play football endlessly because they are well paid."

Oh no. Hang on. Nobody ever said that.
Then why did you say ''burnout''? like it's a myth

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Re: England v Romania

Post by BabylonClaret » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:15 pm

bobinho wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:49 pm
This tournament will like all the others.... a massive anti-climax.

It will be like that because we have started to rely on playing the possession football the really, really good sides play, as opposed to actually playing a more 'natural' game and allowing it to ebb and flow. In maintaining possession at all costs (presumably because we can't be hurt if we have the ball) we actually have forgotten how to attack with purpose and defend with tenacity and resoluteness. Massive shame when you look at the wealth of attacking talent we have at our disposal. We are almost scared to play. Games we DO win will be won by the odd goal.

I genuinely believe that an up to strength and up to par (all players playing at their best) Burnley would beat England.

We should be a worry for the other teams in there... but we aren't. We should be playing for the trophy, but we won't be. Quarter finals at best i'm afraid.
This. Our obsession with trying to be Spain has meant we have forgotten our identity. Trouble is our possession at all costs makes us dull and very pedestrian and unable to capitalise on our strengths. Be more direct, move the ball quickly and be strong and hard to break down. Greece won this tournament being clear about how they played despite being dogger. We are too busy trying to play a way our players don't week in week out (except the City players who have Fernadhino, Silva, De Bruyne and Gundawan to assist)

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Re: England v Romania

Post by Elizabeth » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:17 pm

It makes sense to play these friendlies before the big tournament.
I think any criticism of Southgate at the moment is premature. There will be plenty of opportunities to criticise him once the tournament starts. Plenty.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by Rowls » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:24 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:13 pm
Then why did you say ''burnout''? like it's a myth
Who said it was "a myth"? Nobody, once again.

How many games do you think the England squad have played over the past 4 weeks since the season ended?

Last Premier League game was 23rd May.

Since then the players of Man Utd, Chelsea and Man City have played one game extra.

Then we've had two England friendlies.

So a maximum of four games in three weeks. 1 whole game of football a week.

They will have been a bit worn out at the end of the season but in no way should a maximum of 2 competitive games and two friendlies in three weeks be given as a reason for "burnout" for a professional athlete.

Today's match should have been an exercise in team building, fitness, match sharpness, tactics and reinforcing onfield positional play.

As it was, it turned out to be a runaround for players who aren't even picked for the squad? What's the point of that?

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Re: England v Romania

Post by Rowls » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:42 pm

In fact, only Marcus Rashford (aged 23) has been subjected to 3 or more games.

In 3 weeks.

When we played 6 games in 17 days in February we started to look burned out.

That's a rate of one game in less than every 3 games. With a tiny squad.

There is no comparison with the England set up.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:53 pm

Just get the f***ing ball o'er in t' box, you absolute messers.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:59 pm

For me the best thing about the latest friendly is the discovery that Johnstone could easily step up to first choice.
Some of the rest of them look like they need a break rather than a tournament

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Re: England v Romania

Post by dsr » Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:13 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:08 pm
Yes burnout is real, money doesn't refresh the body, they're humans not robots. There was barely a pre-season gap between the previous two seasons. Athletes get tired no matter how much money they earn, crazy concept that aint it??? mind blowing stuff
Athletes do get tired. But why don't footballers look at how tennis players do it? Tennis players might be given 20 minutes notice to play a 5-hour match and then go and play another one two days later. Followed by another tournament the next week.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by willsclarets » Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:21 pm

Not sure what all the negativity is about. We've not played well in two meaningless friendlies, but I'm quite excited by our chances. There's no team we can't beat, though we're perfectly capable of losing games too of course. We got the semis of the last world cup, and we have better players this time around particularly Grealish, Mount and Foden. I think we'll do well, my only concern is CB. I don't agree that Tarks would give us more quality in there, and anyone who thinks Ben Mee is good enough to play for England is bonkers, as much as he's been great for us. Maguire is a big risk, but it might be one we need to take if we get through the group. Can't see him playing either of the first two games, and maybe the third for game time if we're through.

Anyway, let's get behind them. It's so England to get all down n out about the team and our chances. I have a few Scottish and Irish pals, and the reason they can't stand England isn't the politics or history, it's the constant whinging!

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Re: England v Romania

Post by KRBFC » Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:48 am

dsr wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:13 pm
Athletes do get tired. But why don't footballers look at how tennis players do it? Tennis players might be given 20 minutes notice to play a 5-hour match and then go and play another one two days later. Followed by another tournament the next week.
You're asking the wrong person that question, different training program? Why don't footballers take the triathlete approach? I don't know. I'm commenting on what I see, footballers do get weary with games in quick succession, also after a long hard season heading into a tournament, I'd guess a good mental break before an important knockout tournament will do the England players some good, probably more mentally.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by superdimitri » Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:00 am

dsr wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:13 pm
Athletes do get tired. But why don't footballers look at how tennis players do it? Tennis players might be given 20 minutes notice to play a 5-hour match and then go and play another one two days later. Followed by another tournament the next week.
This was mentioned before. It's a very different regime of fitness. Football players have to get fitness for the long term, resisting injury throughout each season. They need to look after their body and avoid injury caused by playing lots of games in a season.

Tennis players build fitness for intensity in a small amount of time. They often can't do well without a break in-between tournaments and they regularly pick up injuries due to the intensity of their training. Likewise, an injury can finish a tennis players career whilst in football the lighter approach gives players a chance to get up to speed of they are injured.

Come the tournaments football players will change their regime a lot. More focus on injury prevention and fitness in the short term but it's only a relatively short time to change every 2 years so it doesn't have a great impact overall. If players spent the whole time training this way they would be amazing players in a few tightly packed games, but would spend most of the season injured after their bodies reach the limit 10 games in.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:15 am

super fit athletes pulling hamstrings, straining groins etc, in all my decades playing footy I've never known anybody do either of those things and none of us were remotely fit ! :D :D :D :D

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Re: England v Romania

Post by CFS » Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:47 am

Vegas Claret wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:15 am
super fit athletes pulling hamstrings, straining groins etc, in all my decades playing footy I've never known anybody do either of those things and none of us were remotely fit ! :D :D :D :D
Only one muscle you should be looking after over in Vegas mate or is it a bone that's a question in itself.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by Richardsbfc » Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:20 am

Thought the commentary was pretty interesting. Last game Pope played it was “his kicking needs to improve” but last night Johnstone was getting praised for his kicking but kept kicking it out of play.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by BurnleyFC » Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:59 am

Buxtonclaret wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:08 pm
How the hell Ming's gets caps ahead of Tarks, or even Ben, is a mystery.
Only my opinion, but genuinely never rated him above our two.
Because he takes the knee, speaks well and plays for one of Gareth’s old sides.

The fact that he’s absolutely ******* garbage doesn’t come into it.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by gtclaret » Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:57 pm

RVclaret wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:18 pm
A back four of Walker Stones Maguire and Shaw with Rice/Hendo (or Bellingham) in front is actually quite solid on paper. Maguire has been excellent for United this year and we will miss him a lot if he doesn’t make it.
It looks that way, but when they do play with the 2 holding midfielders they are split open quite easily. My concern is that Southgate will put a lot of effort in tightening the back, it will be at the expense of the exciting attack he has at his disposal. We could end up with the worse of both worlds

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Re: England v Romania

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:09 pm

BurnleyFC wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:59 am
Because he takes the knee, speaks well and plays for one of Gareth’s old sides.

The fact that he’s absolutely ******* garbage doesn’t come into it.
Or to put it simply he’s better than the other options. Pathetic to suggest otherwise. What does Southgate from not picking the best players at his disposal.
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Re: England v Romania

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:26 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:09 pm
Or to put it simply he’s better than the other options. Pathetic to suggest otherwise. What does Southgate from not picking the best players at his disposal.
Or perhaps those who best fit into his team strategy?

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Re: England v Romania

Post by Claretitus » Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:42 pm

Roy Keane is spot on when he talks about Jordan Henderson. What is the point? A waste of a squad place because “ he’s good around the squad”. We’re trying to win a tournament, not keep the players amused with Hendo’s card tricks. Also why did Dullgate let Ward-Prowse take all the set pieces yesterday? He’s not made the final 26. Jeez.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by CFS » Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:45 pm

BurnleyFC wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:59 am
Because he takes the knee, speaks well and plays for one of Gareth’s old sides.

The fact that he’s absolutely ******* garbage doesn’t come into it.
I'm pretty sure tarks and Ben take the knee and speak well too? He's better than both too tbf.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by Targetman » Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:49 pm

CFS wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:45 pm
I'm pretty sure tarks and Ben take the knee and speak well too? He's better than both too tbf.
Which pairing would you prefer in Burnley's back line?

Coady and Mings or Tarky and Mee?
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Re: England v Romania

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:54 pm

Targetman wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:49 pm
Which pairing would you prefer in Burnley's back line?

Coady and Mings or Tarky and Mee?
It’s a good question.

In a deep block Ben mee and Tarks have there strengths that not a lot of others do. Like clearing the ball and blocks.

However, as we have seen a number of times this season, they are poor whenever they have to play in the middle third of the pitch/ slightly exposed

The better question is who would you prefer in a progressive set up. In my opinion Coady and Mings would perform better in that respect.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by tiger76 » Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:00 pm

Claretitus wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:42 pm
Roy Keane is spot on when he talks about Jordan Henderson. What is the point? A waste of a squad place because “ he’s good around the squad”. We’re trying to win a tournament, not keep the players amused with Hendo’s card tricks. Also why did Dullgate let Ward-Prowse take all the set pieces yesterday? He’s not made the final 26. Jeez.
Now, now be careful criticising Gareth Southgate you'll upset his fan club on here. And I agree we'll regret not taking JWP mainly for his set piece delivery, after all it's not like England create loads of chances from open play is it, 2 games this week and the grand total of 1 goal from open play, and one penalty, well 2 penalties but we mucked up the 2nd spot kick, so as in 2018 our most potent weapon could well be set pieces.

But the tactical genius Sarfgate decides to leave out one of our most potent strikers of a dead ball in favour of a guy who as good as he is has barely kicked a ball in 3/4 months, and also missed his last 2 penalties when he's stepped up for England, that's hardly encouraging if as is probable we encounter a shoot out along the way, Pickford saved Jordan Henderson's bacon back in 2018, but he can't be relied on to do the same this time should England fluff their lines under pressure.

If Henderson isn't fit then omit him from the squad altogether, but GS doesn't have the spunk to make such a big call, so he takes the easy option.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by Silkyskills1 » Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:19 pm

I've little interest in the national team or international football but it's interesting to see already the potential scapegoats being lined up in healthy numbers.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:39 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:00 pm
Now, now be careful criticising Gareth Southgate you'll upset his fan club on here. And I agree we'll regret not taking JWP mainly for his set piece delivery, after all it's not like England create loads of chances from open play is it, 2 games this week and the grand total of 1 goal from open play, and one penalty, well 2 penalties but we mucked up the 2nd spot kick, so as in 2018 our most potent weapon could well be set pieces.

But the tactical genius Sarfgate decides to leave out one of our most potent strikers of a dead ball in favour of a guy who as good as he is has barely kicked a ball in 3/4 months, and also missed his last 2 penalties when he's stepped up for England, that's hardly encouraging if as is probable we encounter a shoot out along the way, Pickford saved Jordan Henderson's bacon back in 2018, but he can't be relied on to do the same this time should England fluff their lines under pressure.

If Henderson isn't fit then omit him from the squad altogether, but GS doesn't have the spunk to make such a big call, so he takes the easy option.
Who says Henderson isn’t fit? He played 45 mins yesterday and the team carried much more attacking threat in the second half partly as a result.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by tiger76 » Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:50 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:39 pm
Who says Henderson isn’t fit? He played 45 mins yesterday and the team carried much more attacking threat in the second half partly as a result.
True he did and he looked decent, however there's a world of difference between being fit and being match fit, especially after such a long spell on the side-lines as he's endured this past few months, and normally after that type of lengthy absence it takes most players 3-5 games to get back up to their optimum levels, and unfortunately England and Henderson don't have that luxury available to them.

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Re: England v Romania

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:00 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:50 pm
True he did and he looked decent, however there's a world of difference between being fit and being match fit, especially after such a long spell on the side-lines as he's endured this past few months, and normally after that type of lengthy absence it takes most players 3-5 games to get back up to their optimum levels, and unfortunately England and Henderson don't have that luxury available to them.
They don’t, but what they do have is the luxury of being able to select 26 players, of which probably just around 18 will kick a ball. So it’s much more worthwhile bringing a player who is good enough when fit, and will should be fit at some point, than bringing a player who isn’t good enough to get on the pitch. Henderson’s experience and leadership qualities shouldn’t be overlooked either, even if his on-field minutes are limited.

JWP had a good game in an otherwise poor team performance, but he’d be unlikely to ever get on the pitch during the tournament in order to pose a threat from set pieces.

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