Middle class idiots going on holiday

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Jakubclaret
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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by Jakubclaret » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:07 am

Burnley1989 wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:39 pm
I understand your point but 32k is the max you could/can receive on furlough, if your income is 100k for example, you’d be 68k worse off that your previous years earnings.
Unlikely that someone that’s worth 100k to a business could be left at home for a year so perhaps a bit extreme but there will certainly be people playing catch up with their finances this year is my point.
Some people already struggle on a full wage so the notion that somehow taking 20% of what they already earn isn't going to make any difference is completely insane, you've got people completely upto the eyeballs in debt & taking extra work on & selling stuff on eBay/Facebook things are that bad.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by Tall Paul » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:37 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:07 am
Some people already struggle on a full wage so the notion that somehow taking 20% of what they already earn isn't going to make any difference is completely insane, you've got people completely upto the eyeballs in debt & taking extra work on & selling stuff on eBay/Facebook things are that bad.
Aren't they just living with the consequences of the choices they've made in their lives?
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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by evensteadiereddie » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:02 am

I know....just imagine "choosing" to be poor rather than wealthy. Tsk !
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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by Tall Paul » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:05 am

Yes, it's a bit like choosing to be abused by having a Twitter account or choosing to be ripped off by making bets with scammers on this forum.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by evensteadiereddie » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:14 am

Ah, that clears things up..... :?

dandeclaret
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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by dandeclaret » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:57 am

Tall Paul wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:37 am
Aren't they just living with the consequences of the choices they've made in their lives?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Checkmate

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by tim_noone » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:01 am

dandeclaret wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:57 am
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Checkmate
:D

Jakubclaret
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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by Jakubclaret » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:16 am

Tall Paul wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:37 am
Aren't they just living with the consequences of the choices they've made in their lives?
Yes people miles away from wuhan were well aware that the Chinese would start munching on infected bat's & pangolins & it's exactly comparable to a man knowingly signing up on twitter & receiving abuse & still remaining on there & another bloke foolishly betting online with random strangers expecting to be paid out every time. It's the same set of circumstances for sure.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by dandeclaret » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:28 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:16 am
Yes people miles away from wuhan were well aware that the Chinese would start munching on infected bat's & pangolins & it's exactly comparable to a man knowingly signing up on twitter & receiving abuse & still remaining on there & another bloke foolishly betting online with random strangers expecting to be paid out every time. It's the same set of circumstances for sure.
Once they know about it though, then they should just take the cut, that's what they have to do. Suck it up, get on with it, deal with it.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:42 am

ksrclaret wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:12 pm
The OP symbolises the shift in mentality of many in this country over the past 14 months of whinging, snitching, and bitching.

Get a grip.
Says he who uploads pictures of rats .

Take your own advice. ;)

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by boatshed bill » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:44 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:42 am
Says he who uploads pictures of rats .

Take your own advice. ;)


Where are these pictures?
I like rats :D

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by Bosscat » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:47 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:42 am
Says he who uploads pictures of rats .

Take your own advice. ;)
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh Ratfans nnnnnghhhhhhhhh!
101R33.gif
101R33.gif (297.24 KiB) Viewed 2525 times
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nil_desperandum
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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by nil_desperandum » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:47 pm

Burnley1989 wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:39 pm
I understand your point but 32k is the max you could/can receive on furlough, if your income is 100k for example, you’d be 68k worse off that your previous years earnings.
Unlikely that someone that’s worth 100k to a business could be left at home for a year so perhaps a bit extreme but there will certainly be people playing catch up with their finances this year is my point.
I accept that some high earners will have had to take a drop in income due to furlough, but I assume your £100,000 figure is gross, and I would expect most high earners to be paying around 50% in taxes, NI, pension etc. Add to this the likelihood that their outgoings would be massively down if they were staying at home, then your figure of £68,000 worse off is a huge exaggeration.
They will also most likely have taken advantage of "mortgage holiday" schemes and other financial help that has been available during the pandemic.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:12 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:47 pm
I accept that some high earners will have had to take a drop in income due to furlough, but I assume your £100,000 figure is gross, and I would expect most high earners to be paying around 50% in taxes, NI, pension etc. Add to this the likelihood that their outgoings would be massively down if they were staying at home, then your figure of £68,000 worse off is a huge exaggeration.
They will also most likely have taken advantage of "mortgage holiday" schemes and other financial help that has been available during the pandemic.
You would still be losing over £40,000 per year if on furlough.

And not all £100k plus a year earners can easily go and get another job on similar. And even without living beyond their means there will be loads of people affected.

Prime example. Pilots. What do they do?

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by Greenmile » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:22 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:12 pm
You would still be losing over £40,000 per year if on furlough.

And not all £100k plus a year earners can easily go and get another job on similar. And even without living beyond their means there will be loads of people affected.

Prime example. Pilots. What do they do?
Fly planes
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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by nil_desperandum » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:36 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:12 pm
You would still be losing over £40,000 per year if on furlough.

And not all £100k plus a year earners can easily go and get another job on similar. And even without living beyond their means there will be loads of people affected.
How do you get £40,000?
£100,000 minus something in the region of £40,000 / £50,000 saved in tax / insurance / pension (+ £32,000 furlough income) leaves a shortfall of around £20,000 [minus all the savings on daily outgoings, travel etc. and the option of taking mortgage payment holidays etc].
So you could be losing £40,000 but you would most likely have to be earning a lot more than £100,000 gross or have very exceptional circumstances.
Edit:
And not all £100k plus a year earners can easily go and get another job on similar. And even without living beyond their means there will be loads of people affected.
But if you were furloughed you couldn't take on another job to top up your furlough money. You were still employed by your company.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by Jakubclaret » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:19 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:36 pm
How do you get £40,000?
£100,000 minus something in the region of £40,000 / £50,000 saved in tax / insurance / pension (+ £32,000 furlough income) leaves a shortfall of around £20,000 [minus all the savings on daily outgoings, travel etc. and the option of taking mortgage payment holidays etc].
So you could be losing £40,000 but you would most likely have to be earning a lot more than £100,000 gross or have very exceptional circumstances.
Edit:

But if you were furloughed you couldn't take on another job to top up your furlough money. You were still employed by your company.
You do realise the mortgage holiday period was only a short term reprieve, during that period of time it cushioned any pressure on the total outgoings encompassed within the expenditure, it still added to the repayment term length after that period expired, the amount owed didn't magically disappear, it's actually a problem now for some people taking advantage still wishing to keep the repayment length the same as the amount shortfall deficit needs to be topped up on top of the normal amount.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by nil_desperandum » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:51 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:19 pm
You do realise the mortgage holiday period was only a short term reprieve,
Could you please define short term?
It was introduced very early in the crisis and is currently due to end at the end of next month, so far as I'm aware.
(Happy to be corrected and will hold my hand up)

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by CaptainKirk » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:22 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:51 pm
Could you please define short term?
It was introduced very early in the crisis and is currently due to end at the end of next month, so far as I'm aware.
(Happy to be corrected and will hold my hand up)
I thought it was for 3 months?

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by ksrclaret » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:14 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:42 am
Says he who uploads pictures of rats .

Take your own advice. ;)
Haha! You did love those rats, didn't you? Good times.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by TheFamilyCat » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:55 pm

CaptainKirk wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:22 pm
I thought it was for 3 months?
Think it was 3 months of mortgage holidays but the offer of being able to take then ends next month.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by Jakubclaret » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:07 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:51 pm
Could you please define short term?
It was introduced very early in the crisis and is currently due to end at the end of next month, so far as I'm aware.
(Happy to be corrected and will hold my hand up)
3 mths but an extension was agreed on a case to case basis, its irrelevant the length of time, long before furlough some people were already sinking anyway & the last thing people needed were reduced wages, you can ask your mortgage company anytime for a mortgage holiday even before covid there might not agree but you can ask, you are also missing remortgages & drawdowns/loans coexisting with the mortgages as well which exacerbated what was already happening or due to happen.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by boatshed bill » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:54 pm

What exactly defines "middle class" these days?

Top Claret
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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by Top Claret » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:57 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:54 pm
What exactly defines "middle class" these days?
Labour voters call people middle class who work for a living

boatshed bill
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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by boatshed bill » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:59 pm

Top Claret wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:57 pm
Labour voters call people middle class who work for a living
That doesn't define it, though.

Jamesy
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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by Jamesy » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:01 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:32 pm
What?
Don't really know where to start, but the majority of workers furloughed have been on a very large percentage of their wage, and by staying at home have had significantly reduced expenses. (e.g. the 20% hit will simply cover travel to and from work and parking charges for many people, and they haven't been going to the pub, the football etc.). I doubt that many furloughed workers are "playing catch-up".
Meanwhile NHS staff, care workers and shop workers, are (in many cases) amongst the lowest paid, and have had all the associated costs of getting to work, possibly paying for childcare etc., etc.
More significantly however, they've had no choice but to keep going to work, initially without PPE, in order to keep the country going, putting themselves at risk.
So who are the fortunate ones?
Do you not mean all those millions of middle class people working from home who have done the best out of lockdown? Many furloughed workers were in low paid hospitality jobs so would have not really benefited from 80% of their salary other than keeping their heads above water.
I know lots of people in local government who are still working from home and have saved a small fortune. Meanwhile people like white van man have had to drag themselves to work every day to cope with the increase in online shopping during Covid along with NHS staff and shop workers as you mentioned.
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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by boatshed bill » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:02 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:59 pm
That doesn't define it, though. So are they defined by their holidaying exploits, or because they are seen as idiots? Just asking ;)

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by nil_desperandum » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:51 pm

Jamesy wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:01 pm
Do you not mean all those millions of middle class people working from home who have done the best out of lockdown? Many furloughed workers were in low paid hospitality jobs so would have not really benefited from 80% of their salary other than keeping their heads above water.
I know lots of people in local government who are still working from home and have saved a small fortune. Meanwhile people like white van man have had to drag themselves to work every day to cope with the increase in online shopping during Covid along with NHS staff and shop workers as you mentioned.
Yes - that as well.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:59 pm

Jamesy wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:01 pm
Meanwhile people like white van man have had to drag themselves to work every day to cope with the increase in online shopping during Covid along with NHS staff and shop workers as you mentioned.
Its not all bad, I've made a silly amount of money since January doing deliveroo, uber and just eat :lol:

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by SouthLondonexile » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:11 pm

Well I do have sympathy for those who were tempted to go on holiday to green listed Portugal only for them to become amber midholiday .
Where I feel less sympathetic are the large numbers of skiers who went to the Italian Alps in February half term 2020, even though many parts of Italy were clearly hurting from this highly infectious virus.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by evensteadiereddie » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:49 pm

The resorts were open then and I'm not sure the full implications of what was happening were realised by anybody.
We were at Tignes, France, at that time and our reps were happily counting down the number of weeks they had left of the season, blissfully unaware that just two weeks later they'd be coming home and unemployed.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by dsr » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:00 pm

SouthLondonexile wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:11 pm
Well I do have sympathy for those who were tempted to go on holiday to green listed Portugal only for them to become amber midholiday .
Where I feel less sympathetic are the large numbers of skiers who went to the Italian Alps in February half term 2020, even though many parts of Italy were clearly hurting from this highly infectious virus.
It's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Disobey government rules? No sympathy. Obey government rules? No sympathy. The only way to get sympathy is to be more catholic than the Pope.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by Lowbankclaret » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:21 pm

Well EasyJet just cancelled my flights to Tenerife on the 1st of July. Welcome to another few months of lockdown. We book the same weeks each year so 2010 cancelled flights were transferred 12 months ago to this year and now just transferred my flights to 2022 when hopefully we can go. As a working class person I think it’s ok to go on holiday. Had both our jabs so why should we be shut in any more.
This madness has to stop.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:43 am

Greenmile wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:22 pm
Fly planes
well done that man :D

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:52 am

nil_desperandum wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:36 pm
How do you get £40,000?
£100,000 minus something in the region of £40,000 / £50,000 saved in tax / insurance / pension (+ £32,000 furlough income) leaves a shortfall of around £20,000 [minus all the savings on daily outgoings, travel etc. and the option of taking mortgage payment holidays etc].
So you could be losing £40,000 but you would most likely have to be earning a lot more than £100,000 gross or have very exceptional circumstances.
Edit:

But if you were furloughed you couldn't take on another job to top up your furlough money. You were still employed by your company.
£100k after tax £66,640
£30k after tax £24,040

Perhaps the savings made from days out might be being spent on travelling to seek work. Or fulfil other work. Or the extra heating and water costs. Extra food bills with the kids not in school. etc etc etc

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:53 am

nil_desperandum wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:36 pm


But if you were furloughed you couldn't take on another job to top up your furlough money. You were still employed by your company.
Yes you can. You are allowed to work while on furlough. Just not for your employer.
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Burnley1989
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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by Burnley1989 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:58 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:47 pm
I accept that some high earners will have had to take a drop in income due to furlough, but I assume your £100,000 figure is gross, and I would expect most high earners to be paying around 50% in taxes, NI, pension etc. Add to this the likelihood that their outgoings would be massively down if they were staying at home, then your figure of £68,000 worse off is a huge exaggeration.
They will also most likely have taken advantage of "mortgage holiday" schemes and other financial help that has been available during the pandemic.
Pointless trying to argue it really, fact is… my point

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:06 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:53 am
Yes you can. You are allowed to work while on furlough. Just not for your employer.
What he also fails to acknowledge is, if you read the furlough paperwork which you should & needed to sign before you was granted the leave of absence is you wasn't even guaranteed your job back after the furlough period ended, so plenty weren't only just furloughed they didn't even have a job to return back to nevermind being on a reduced wage, you give up after abit explaining simple things to people.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by boatshed bill » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:00 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:53 am
Yes you can. You are allowed to work while on furlough. Just not for your employer.
There must have been a glut of job opportunities during lockdown ;)

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by Raggus » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:00 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:53 am
Yes you can. You are allowed to work while on furlough. Just not for your employer.
That’s dependant on employers though isn’t it? I know when my company furloughed some staff the letters they sent stated that they were not allowed to take on other work.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:06 pm

Raggus wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:00 pm
That’s dependant on employers though isn’t it? I know when my company furloughed some staff the letters they sent stated that they were not allowed to take on other work.
Its dependant on any contract an employee has agreed.
My friend cannot have a 2nd job, as stated by the school she works at.
I however could when at my last work place and I did.

I know of many food delivery drivers who're on furlough from their main jobs and have permission from their employers to work whilst on furlough.
Those people are slowly returning back to their normal jobs and doing food delivery at weekends for extra cash.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:08 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:00 pm
There must have been a glut of job opportunities during lockdown ;)
Food delivery jobs and the number of drivers shot up.

I actually quit my 2 jobs to do food delivery as its much better money and better flexibility for me.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by tim_noone » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:34 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:08 pm
Food delivery jobs and the number of drivers shot up.

I actually quit my 2 jobs to do food delivery as its much better money and better flexibility for me.
:D Up there for thinking Sid...up first best dressed!!
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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:50 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:00 pm
There must have been a glut of job opportunities during lockdown ;)
Very true, delivery driving jobs, useful to school leavers/others with no qualifications doing manual jobs, I haven't researched how many people can't drive but I should imagine we are talking millions. With the expense involved with learning & then owning a vehicle & all the jazz that follows, basically if you don't need to drive you don't bother. Job opportunities were there during the lockdown but whether people were in a position to throw thousands of pounds into it is another question.

GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:54 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:50 pm
Very true, delivery driving jobs, useful to school leavers/others with no qualifications doing manual jobs, I haven't researched how many people can't drive but I should imagine we are talking millions. With the expense involved with learning & then owning a vehicle & all the jazz that follows, basically if you don't need to drive you don't bother. Job opportunities were there during the lockdown but whether people were in a position to throw thousands of pounds into it is another question.
There were cyclists in Oxford making close to £500 a week before taxes, I believe it was the same in places like London.
A lad I got to know in Basingstoke was making £3-400 a week and said if he was making more and it was guaranteed he'd consider giving up his normal job in a diamond shop.

Like you said, not everyone has licence, but a lot of people didn't let that stop them.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:09 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:54 pm
There were cyclists in Oxford making close to £500 a week before taxes, I believe it was the same in places like London.
A lad I got to know in Basingstoke was making £3-400 a week and said if he was making more and it was guaranteed he'd consider giving up his normal job in a diamond shop.

Like you said, not everyone has licence, but a lot of people didn't let that stop them.
Its possible, I know in cities people whizz around on mopeds & scooters & travelling about on 1 of them is a lot easier than learning to drive a motor vehicle, I've done it myself in my younger years with a Peugeot speed fight & just paid for the CBT, some people would have diversed seamlessly into other jobs whilst others for love nor money would have struggled through a combination of different circumstances, no start up finances & geographical reasons such as plenty of jobs available in Rochdale but not really doable to a unemployed bloke in Skipton.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by Top Claret » Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:53 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:54 pm
There were cyclists in Oxford making close to £500 a week before taxes, I believe it was the same in places like London.
A lad I got to know in Basingstoke was making £3-400 a week and said if he was making more and it was guaranteed he'd consider giving up his normal job in a diamond shop.

Like you said, not everyone has licence, but a lot of people didn't let that stop them.

Never read as much rubbish, he would be lucky to make minimum wage

Self employed courier and delivery drivers work for appitance and rarely make minimum wage, the same applies to deliveroo drivers.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by taio » Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:00 am

Top Claret wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:53 am
Never read as much rubbish, he would be lucky to make minimum wage

Self employed courier and delivery drivers work for appitance and rarely make minimum wage, the same applies to deliveroo drivers.
Never read as much rubbish...really? He referred to £500 and £300-£400 a week gross. Those figures arent much more than minimum wage and don't represent a good wage especially in places like Oxford.

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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by Top Claret » Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:58 am

taio wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:00 am
Never read as much rubbish...really? He referred to £500 and £300-£400 a week gross. Those figures arent much more than minimum wage and don't represent a good wage especially in places like Oxford.
I miss read the figures and totally except your reply and apologies to Jay81.
This user liked this post: taio

claret2018
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Re: Middle class idiots going on holiday

Post by claret2018 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:40 am

£300 a week is less than minimum wage assuming it’s full time

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