Southgate masterplan

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
KRBFC
Posts: 18018
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3784 times
Has Liked: 1071 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by KRBFC » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:46 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:44 pm
Whoever you face you still need to play well, no easy routes if the opposition put up stiff resistance, some of us thought tonight Scotland was a banker, well was it? You can easily lose to Ipswich if they play astoundingly well as easy as you can lose to man United if they play poorly.
Ipswich is a considerably easier tie than Man United, don't insult my intelligence.

Jakubclaret
Posts: 9434
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
Been Liked: 1180 times
Has Liked: 778 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Jakubclaret » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:48 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:46 pm
Ipswich is a considerably easier tie than Man United, don't insult my intelligence.
You still need to turn up however easy the tie, so what do you do if you don’t turn up & they do?

Spiral
Posts: 5005
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:37 am
Been Liked: 2518 times
Has Liked: 333 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Spiral » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:50 pm

Ipswich are in League sodding One and ManU finished 2nd in the PL. Of course you need to turn up, but Jesus Christ how are you struggling with this?

Jakubclaret
Posts: 9434
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
Been Liked: 1180 times
Has Liked: 778 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Jakubclaret » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:52 pm

Spiral wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:50 pm
Ipswich are in League sodding One and ManU finished 2nd in the PL. Of course you need to turn up, but Jesus Christ how are you struggling with this?
I’m not struggling with anything I’ll answer my own question shall I, you get beat that’s the answer.

Clarets4me
Posts: 4948
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:31 pm
Been Liked: 2307 times
Has Liked: 1033 times
Location: Ightenhill,Burnley

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Clarets4me » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:52 pm

Todays factoid : Scotland were the only unbeaten side in the 1974 World Cup finals, and didn't get out of their group ....

dsr
Posts: 15138
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by dsr » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:54 pm

Clarets4me wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:52 pm
Todays factoid : Scotland were the only unbeaten side in the 1974 World Cup finals, and didn't get out of their group ....
Goal difference, wasn't it? Brazil, Yugoslavia and Scotland all got a couple of draws against each other, and they all beat Zaire - 9-0 for Brazil, 3-0 for Yugoslavia, 2-0 for Scotland. what a shame. :lol:

TheFamilyCat
Posts: 10843
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:56 pm
Been Liked: 5521 times
Has Liked: 208 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by TheFamilyCat » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:56 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:45 pm
We will still likely come out with an easier tie than France/Portugal. A bore draw against the Czechs will do us nicely
The Czechs may also have an eye on the easier draw too. They could easily hand us the group if they are so inclined.

KRBFC
Posts: 18018
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3784 times
Has Liked: 1071 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by KRBFC » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:07 am

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:56 pm
The Czechs may also have an eye on the easier draw too. They could easily hand us the group if they are so inclined.
It’s a battle to avoid the Portuguese

Spiral
Posts: 5005
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:37 am
Been Liked: 2518 times
Has Liked: 333 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Spiral » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:08 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:52 pm
I’m not struggling with anything I’ll answer my own question shall I, you get beat that’s the answer.
This is true whether against ManU or Ipswich: don't turn up, you lose. Thanks, Pep. Didn't know that. The point is that you'd rather play Ipswich than ManU. And so it is also true that you'd rather play Sweden than France. Then (to speak in your vague, say-nothing, platitudinal language), you see what happens later in the competition when anything can happen.

Vegas Claret
Posts: 30275
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
Been Liked: 10917 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: clue is in the title

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:10 am

KRBFC wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:07 am
It’s a battle to avoid the Portuguese
where do we need to finish to avoid France, Germany and Portugal ? 2nd ?

KRBFC
Posts: 18018
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3784 times
Has Liked: 1071 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by KRBFC » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:11 am

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:10 am
where do we need to finish to avoid France, Germany and Portugal ? 2nd ?
Yeah or 3rd, 2nd will be Slovakia or Sweden I think someone said

dsr
Posts: 15138
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4549 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by dsr » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:14 am

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:10 am
where do we need to finish to avoid France, Germany and Portugal ? 2nd ?
4th would do it. ;)
This user liked this post: IanMcL

Jakubclaret
Posts: 9434
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
Been Liked: 1180 times
Has Liked: 778 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:15 am

Spiral wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:08 am
This is true whether against ManU or Ipswich: don't turn up, you lose. Thanks, Pep. Didn't know that. The point is that you'd rather play Ipswich than ManU. And so it is also true that you'd rather play Sweden than France. Then (to speak in your vague, say-nothing, platitudinal language), you see what happens later in the competition when anything can happen.
We aren’t really comparing like for like, we will call Macedonia Ipswich for arguments sake & Italy man United, as things progress we will have to face some of the big boys eventually, as much as we’d like the route to the final will not depend upon Macedonia (Ipswich) or Hungary (Rotherham) it is what it is, if we want to progress it’s unavoidable. Sweden on the day can just be as dangerous as Portugal if Portugal don’t turn up, we need to be in control of our destiny & take responsibility for whatever happens.

KRBFC
Posts: 18018
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3784 times
Has Liked: 1071 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by KRBFC » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:17 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:15 am
We aren’t really comparing like for like, we will call Macedonia Ipswich for arguments sake & Italy man United, as things progress we will have to face some of the big boys eventually, as much as we’d like the route to the final will not depend upon Macedonia (Ipswich) or Hungary (Rotherham) it is what it is, if we want to progress it’s unavoidable. Sweden on the day can just be as dangerous as Portugal if Portugal don’t turn up, we need to be in control of our destiny & take responsibility for whatever happens.
I don’t know how you’re still trying to argue a pretty basic concept of avoiding the big guns until late gives you a better chance of success. It’s not difficult to understand you have a better chance of beating Macedonia than you do Italy.

Spiral
Posts: 5005
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:37 am
Been Liked: 2518 times
Has Liked: 333 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Spiral » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:18 am

Winning the group we'll play 2nd place of France, Germany, Portugal and Hungary. If we come 2nd we'll play 2nd place of Sweden, Slovakia, Spain and Poland. If we're a best-placed qualifying 3rd place it gets a bit confusing but I think we play 1st of the above group with Spain, or, realistically, Belgium.

Spiral
Posts: 5005
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:37 am
Been Liked: 2518 times
Has Liked: 333 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Spiral » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:20 am

KRBFC wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:17 am
I don’t know how you’re still trying to argue a pretty basic concept of avoiding the big guns until late gives you a better chance of success. It’s not difficult to understand you have a better chance of beating Macedonia than you do Italy.
Could be wrong but I think this is the bloke who keeps a stash of out of date antibiotics "just in case".

Vegas Claret
Posts: 30275
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
Been Liked: 10917 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: clue is in the title

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:21 am

dsr wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:14 am
4th would do it. ;)
:lol: :lol: :lol: brilliant !

Jakubclaret
Posts: 9434
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
Been Liked: 1180 times
Has Liked: 778 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:21 am

KRBFC wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:17 am
I don’t know how you’re still trying to argue a pretty basic concept of avoiding the big guns until late gives you a better chance of success. It’s not difficult to understand you have a better chance of beating Macedonia than you do Italy.
The law of averages yes, if you are going to get beat in the knockouts or quarters does it really matter, you aren’t winning the final in any scenario, If we are getting eliminated I’d rather go out earlier on than the build up to a massive quarter final & end up more disappointed, obviously I’d like us to go all the way but if we aren’t what’s the point in prolonging the agony?

Vegas Claret
Posts: 30275
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
Been Liked: 10917 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: clue is in the title

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:22 am

Spiral wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:18 am
Winning the group we'll play 2nd place of France, Germany, Portugal and Hungary. If we come 2nd we'll play 2nd place of Sweden, Slovakia, Spain and Poland. If we're a best-placed qualifying 3rd place it gets a bit confusing but I think we play 1st of the above group with Spain, or, realistically, Belgium.
so we need to finish 2nd then and get battered by Spain :D

KRBFC
Posts: 18018
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3784 times
Has Liked: 1071 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by KRBFC » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:23 am

Spiral wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:18 am
Winning the group we'll play 2nd place of France, Germany, Portugal and Hungary. If we come 2nd we'll play 2nd place of Sweden, Slovakia, Spain and Poland. If we're a best-placed qualifying 3rd place it gets a bit confusing but I think we play 1st of the above group with Spain, or, realistically, Belgium.
I just hope Southgate sticks to the master plan and doesn’t fold to the crying public and beat the Czechs. 0-0 please

KRBFC
Posts: 18018
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3784 times
Has Liked: 1071 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by KRBFC » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:25 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:21 am
The law of averages yes, if you are going to get beat in the knockouts or quarters does it really matter, you aren’t winning the final in any scenario, If we are getting eliminated I’d rather go out earlier on than the build up to a massive quarter final & end up more disappointed, obviously I’d like us to go all the way but if we aren’t what’s the point in prolonging the agony?
It’s the hope that kills you and you just never know in a final, nobody fancied the Portuguese to beat France and up popped shitty Eder to be a national hero. A final at Wembley against Italy, I’d fancy us.

Spiral
Posts: 5005
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:37 am
Been Liked: 2518 times
Has Liked: 333 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Spiral » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:26 am

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:22 am
so we need to finish 2nd then and get battered by Spain :D
For all the cult of personality surrounding Enrique, I honestly don't rate them at all.

Vegas Claret
Posts: 30275
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
Been Liked: 10917 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: clue is in the title

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:27 am

KRBFC wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:25 am
It’s the hope that kills you and you just never know in a final, nobody fancied the Portuguese to beat France and up popped shitty Eder to be a national hero. A final at Wembley against Italy, I’d fancy us.
I think the bigger example was Greece beating Portugal in Portugal - that was ******* hilarious
This user liked this post: timshorts

Vegas Claret
Posts: 30275
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
Been Liked: 10917 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: clue is in the title

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:27 am

Spiral wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:26 am
For all the cult of personality surrounding Enrique, I honestly don't rate them at all.
I was only jesting, they were poor the other night. I think France will walk this tournament tbh

Jakubclaret
Posts: 9434
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
Been Liked: 1180 times
Has Liked: 778 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:28 am

KRBFC wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:25 am
It’s the hope that kills you and you just never know in a final, nobody fancied the Portuguese to beat France and up popped shitty Eder to be a national hero. A final at Wembley against Italy, I’d fancy us.
It’s the dark horses that sometimes can surprise, on tonight’s showing the final won’t include us anyway so it’s a moot point.

TheFamilyCat
Posts: 10843
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:56 pm
Been Liked: 5521 times
Has Liked: 208 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:28 am

Vegas Claret wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:22 am
so we need to finish 2nd then and get battered by Spain :D
No danger there. Spain will have 88% possession, neither team will have a shot on goal and we'll sneak through in a shoot out after 23 penalties.

KRBFC
Posts: 18018
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3784 times
Has Liked: 1071 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by KRBFC » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:29 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:28 am
It’s the dark horses that sometimes can surprise, on tonight’s showing the final won’t include us anyway so it’s a moot point.
We played in 2nd gear tonight, it was largely a meaningless game. Nothing on the line really

Jakubclaret
Posts: 9434
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
Been Liked: 1180 times
Has Liked: 778 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:32 am

KRBFC wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:29 am
We played in 2nd gear tonight, it was largely a meaningless game. Nothing on the line really
We haven’t done so bad so far overall, let’s hope we can at least agree on that, belated good evening.
This user liked this post: KRBFC

Vegas Claret
Posts: 30275
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
Been Liked: 10917 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: clue is in the title

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:43 am

KRBFC wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:29 am
We played in 2nd gear tonight, it was largely a meaningless game. Nothing on the line really
I'd say we played in -5th gear ! England v Scotland is never a meaningless game

superdimitri
Posts: 4936
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:04 pm
Been Liked: 1005 times
Has Liked: 725 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by superdimitri » Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:31 am

I think without doubt he set up the team to draw... And even if he didn't it's turned out well for us. I don't get the flaming of him, yeah his substitutions were crap and he didn't pull players that were playing poor but part of that is about fitness and keeping confidence in players.
I think the lack of a true and fit central midfielder is an issue, with only Henderson in the team. Phillips and Rice tend not to be complete enough players to link up play well enough, although Phillips was excellentl in the last game.

I thought the players were more to blame than anything, but perhaps that's because they had the instruction not to give 100%

But let's not take anything away from Scotland who nullified our threat and played out of their skins. They look a decent team compared to old. A good wake up call for England that's happened at the right time.

Woodleyclaret
Posts: 6888
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:25 pm
Been Liked: 1468 times
Has Liked: 1839 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Woodleyclaret » Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:53 am

Harry Kane was struggling all game clearly not match fit and should never have started
Phillips struggled to get going and Rice was just shite.Little Billy"Kante" Gilmour ran the midfield.
Southgate got the gig originally on the back of allegedly managing the U23 to flop level
He was an easy yesman option with little management success .The problem is the FA said his job is safe even if, as will happen, we dont win the tournament.
Low expectations produce low outcomes.

Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Spijed » Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:22 am

KRBFC wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:29 am
We played in 2nd gear tonight, it was largely a meaningless game. Nothing on the line really
Does playing in 2nd mean we deliberately allowed Scotland some golden opportunities to score?

Clarets4me
Posts: 4948
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:31 pm
Been Liked: 2307 times
Has Liked: 1033 times
Location: Ightenhill,Burnley

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Clarets4me » Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:40 am

dsr wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:54 pm
Goal difference, wasn't it? Brazil, Yugoslavia and Scotland all got a couple of draws against each other, and they all beat Zaire - 9-0 for Brazil, 3-0 for Yugoslavia, 2-0 for Scotland. what a shame. :lol:
That's right .... I remember Billy Bremner putting the ball the wrong side of the post late on against Brazil from about a yard out .... the winners West Germany lost a group game to, of all people, East Germany !

Jakubclaret
Posts: 9434
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
Been Liked: 1180 times
Has Liked: 778 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:49 am

Spijed wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:22 am
Does playing in 2nd mean we deliberately allowed Scotland some golden opportunities to score?
Whoever you play against at international level the other team usually get opportunities, Scotland team are no duckeggs, some of there players are also plying their trade in the premier league, if we drop in performance & they raise it there isn’t that much difference breaking it down.

Tall Paul
Posts: 7171
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:07 am
Been Liked: 2560 times
Has Liked: 690 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Tall Paul » Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:43 am

Winning the group gives them a last 16 game at Wembley. Having home advantage is probably a bigger factor than the standard of the opposition.

KRBFC
Posts: 18018
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3784 times
Has Liked: 1071 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by KRBFC » Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:55 am

Spijed wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:22 am
Does playing in 2nd mean we deliberately allowed Scotland some golden opportunities to score?
It means whatever you want it to mean

KRBFC
Posts: 18018
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3784 times
Has Liked: 1071 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by KRBFC » Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:56 am

Tall Paul wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:43 am
Winning the group gives them a last 16 game at Wembley. Having home advantage is probably a bigger factor than the standard of the opposition.
The route is more important than the venue, especially with 25% attendances. Wembley isn't the most ferocious place to visit even when full.

Hapag Lloyd
Posts: 584
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:24 am
Been Liked: 285 times
Has Liked: 423 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Hapag Lloyd » Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:09 am

Whilst agreeing with the majority on this thread that Southgate isn’t up to the job, I do think that we have an over inflated view of how good these England players actually are.
This user liked this post: fatboy47

CrosspoolClarets
Posts: 5229
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:00 pm
Been Liked: 1623 times
Has Liked: 397 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:16 am

Finishing second would replace Portugal/Germany at Wembley with an easier tie (but not at Wembley), then would follow probably with France in Russia in the QF. Which would be a disaster.

I don’t think he’s clever enough to have a masterplan, and this is certainly not it.

Southgate is like a robot with the CPU of an old Atari.

Emotionless - rather than busting a gut to beat the old enemy he seemed to prefer pragmatically holding on with 2 holding midfielders than going for it 4-4-2 with Calvert Lewin and Rashford up top, he admitted at the end the crucial thing was not to lose. Tactics - never changed to a plan B, it was Dyche-like in many ways. Played James inexplicably (instead of Trips for set pieces and crosses) who did nothing but pass back (pass completion 98% for a fullback is worryingly high - very few crosses slung in near the end). Could have stuck Maguire on too for set pieces and certainly pulled off a holding MF.

I had incredibly low expectations of Southgate but he’s so far managed to exceed them in the wrong direction, and even more worryingly, is guaranteed to keep his job if we get to the knockouts.
Last edited by CrosspoolClarets on Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Steve1956
Posts: 17178
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:57 pm
Been Liked: 6463 times
Has Liked: 2896 times
Location: Fife

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Steve1956 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:25 am

Football's coming home.....

https://youtu.be/n0bFs1xalAE

diamondpocket
Posts: 1367
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:18 pm
Been Liked: 254 times
Has Liked: 215 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by diamondpocket » Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:41 am

I wouldn't knock Sweden down just yet if we do play them. Not conceded a goal, very tight defensively, great framework and look a bit better than in the WC. Got a cracking young striker up top, too. They might even win the group. Spain / Poland is a big one today to see how that group pans out.

IanMcL
Posts: 30123
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:27 pm
Been Liked: 6340 times
Has Liked: 8651 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by IanMcL » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:04 am

Hapag Lloyd wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:09 am
Whilst agreeing with the majority on this thread that Southgate isn’t up to the job, I do think that we have an over inflated view of how good these England players actually are.
Perhaps it is the players own over inflation.
When Foden gets a Gazza blonde haircut, you know he is deluded.

RVclaret
Posts: 13836
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:30 am
Been Liked: 3707 times
Has Liked: 2499 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by RVclaret » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:23 am

Hapag Lloyd wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:09 am
Whilst agreeing with the majority on this thread that Southgate isn’t up to the job, I do think that we have an over inflated view of how good these England players actually are.
We have the Prem's most ruthless and arguably best striker in Kane - fact, check the stats.

Chilwell, Mount and James just played key roles in winning the UCL - knocking out both Madrid teams on the way.

Foden just won PFA Young Player of the Year after starring for City in winning the league. Tripps just won La Liga.

Shaw had a great season for a United team that finished second - created most chances out of any full back in the league.

Sancho has 79 goals/assists in 82 games over the past two seasons. Stones kept Spain's main defender Laporte out of a City team that conceded the fewest goals in the league.

That's just a few off the top of my head, I'm not over inflating these players here just stating facts. They are good players and arguably some of the best attacking talent we have seen for well over a decade. Yet when they play for England under Southgate where does it go? Reece James usually bombs on down the right for Chelsea and whips crosses in - last night he literally turned back in and went for the safe pass, that is the manager. He starts with two rigid CDM's and then wonders why we couldn't break Scotland down?

SalisburyClaret
Posts: 4077
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:32 pm
Been Liked: 1104 times
Has Liked: 709 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by SalisburyClaret » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:34 am

RVclaret wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:23 am
We have the Prem's most ruthless and arguably best striker in Kane - fact, check the stats.

Chilwell, Mount and James just played key roles in winning the UCL - knocking out both Madrid teams on the way.

Foden just won PFA Young Player of the Year after starring for City in winning the league. Tripps just won La Liga.

Shaw had a great season for a United team that finished second - created most chances out of any full back in the league.

Sancho has 79 goals/assists in 82 games over the past two seasons. Stones kept Spain's main defender Laporte out of a City team that conceded the fewest goals in the league.

That's just a few off the top of my head, I'm not over inflating these players here just stating facts. They are good players and arguably some of the best attacking talent we have seen for well over a decade. Yet when they play for England under Southgate where does it go? Reece James usually bombs on down the right for Chelsea and whips crosses in - last night he literally turned back in and went for the safe pass, that is the manager. He starts with two rigid CDM's and then wonders why we couldn't break Scotland down?

Dead right RV. They’re playing for a Manager who simply does provide them with a tactical plan and they run out of ideas of their own after 20 mins

Rileybobs
Posts: 16686
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
Been Liked: 6897 times
Has Liked: 1471 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:38 am

KRBFC wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:56 am
The route is more important than the venue, especially with 25% attendances. Wembley isn't the most ferocious place to visit even when full.
I’ve posted this on another thread but the following are two likely routes to the final.

Finish 1st;
R16 - Germany/Portugal
QF - Spain
SF - Netherlands
F - France

Finish 2nd;
R16 - Slovakia/Sweden
QF - France
SF - Italy/Belgium
F - Portugal

I think that France and Italy have looked two strongest sides thus far, and winning the group means we would most likely avoid both teams until the final. It may be that Southgate would prefer an easier second round tie and see where that takes us though.

We seemed happy to play for the draw last night, which in the scheme of things isn’t a bad result. But it was a thoroughly abject performance that will do nothing for the confidence of our attacking players. I can’t imagine Kane, Foden and Grealish are having the best summer of their lives.

brexit
Posts: 1481
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:20 am
Been Liked: 234 times
Has Liked: 58 times
Location: on the gravy train in strasbourg

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by brexit » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:41 am

RVclaret wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:23 am
We have the Prem's most ruthless and arguably best striker in Kane - fact, check the stats.

Chilwell, Mount and James just played key roles in winning the UCL - knocking out both Madrid teams on the way.

Foden just won PFA Young Player of the Year after starring for City in winning the league. Tripps just won La Liga.

Shaw had a great season for a United team that finished second - created most chances out of any full back in the league.

Sancho has 79 goals/assists in 82 games over the past two seasons. Stones kept Spain's main defender Laporte out of a City team that conceded the fewest goals in the league.

That's just a few off the top of my head, I'm not over inflating these players here just stating facts. They are good players and arguably some of the best attacking talent we have seen for well over a decade. Yet when they play for England under Southgate where does it go? Reece James usually bombs on down the right for Chelsea and whips crosses in - last night he literally turned back in and went for the safe pass, that is the manager. He starts with two rigid CDM's and then wonders why we couldn't break Scotland down?
Is southgate dyche in disguise?

taio
Posts: 11520
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:17 am
Been Liked: 3220 times
Has Liked: 340 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by taio » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:42 am

Rileybobs wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:38 am
I’ve posted this on another thread but the following are two likely routes to the final.

Finish 1st;
R16 - Germany/Portugal
QF - Spain
SF - Netherlands
F - France

Finish 2nd;
R16 - Slovakia/Sweden
QF - France
SF - Italy/Belgium
F - Portugal

I think that France and Italy have looked two strongest sides thus far, and winning the group means we would most likely avoid both teams until the final. It may be that Southgate would prefer an easier second round tie and see where that takes us though.

We seemed happy to play for the draw last night, which in the scheme of things isn’t a bad result. But it was a thoroughly abject performance that will do nothing for the confidence of our attacking players. I can’t imagine Kane, Foden and Grealish are having the best summer of their lives.
I would always want us to take the easiest path.

But if Southgate played for a draw last night it's just rubbish.

Rileybobs
Posts: 16686
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
Been Liked: 6897 times
Has Liked: 1471 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:43 am

taio wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:42 am
I would always want us to take the easiest path.

But if Southgate played for a draw last night it's just rubbish.
Agreed. But I don’t think that finishing second even gives us an easier path.

IanMcL
Posts: 30123
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:27 pm
Been Liked: 6340 times
Has Liked: 8651 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by IanMcL » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:45 am

There is still every opportunity for England to progress a long way.

Winstonswhite
Posts: 2530
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:04 am
Been Liked: 605 times
Has Liked: 309 times

Re: Southgate masterplan

Post by Winstonswhite » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:45 am

I wouldn’t fancy Sweden last 16 in Copenhagen

Post Reply