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Your stance and piety is typical of cancel culture. Unfortunately we can't be friends.Claret_tinted wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:27 pmNo, you were inflammatory. Your remark was childish and ill informed.
And yours is illegal. The fact your post has been allowed to stand and even be celebrated is a worrying precedent.ten bellies wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:32 pmYour stance and piety is typical of cancel culture. Unfortunately we can't be friends.
We’re not discussing the sporting ethical stance. On that matter I personally feel it is unfair to allow transgender women athletes who have transitioned post puberty to compete in open disciplines non transgender women. This is being played out in US collegiate sport currently. There are a number of legal cases going ahead that will be heard this year.Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:53 pmThat's true, but anyone with any sporting nous, shouldn't have to be told that it offers an unfair advantage. All any sports fans can ask for is a level playing field.
Secondly, if she was a transition boxer, would you really allow her to enter the ring with someone born female. It would be criminal.
I have full sympathy, but there is no way anyone in this situation can compete fairly. It becomes a mockery, and I along with many others, would just switch off.
I’m not mixing up either. Education is free and at the end of your finger tips.NottsClaret wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:03 pmNah, she is male. You're mixing up gender with biological sex. It's a pretty basic mistake.
"You’re legally bound to adhere to that."
Ha ha.. that's just nonsense. If a male wants to be called Katy, I'll call them Katy. I'll call them 'she' if that's what they want. I'm very much in the live and let live camp. But if all this make believe begins to impinge on women's hard earned rights and opportunities, then I'll call it out for the nonsense it is.
I think you are being far too judgemental and giving yourself far too much authority. There is more than one viewpoint about whether a person born with Y chromosomes is truly a woman, ranging from a flat "no" to a flat "yes, in all respects". And of course all nuances up and down the scale.Claret_tinted wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:48 pmWe’re not discussing the sporting ethical stance. On that matter I personally feel it is unfair to allow transgender women athletes who have transitioned post puberty to compete in open disciplines non transgender women. This is being played out in US collegiate sport currently. There are a number of legal cases going ahead that will be heard this year.
I am calling to light certain posters who are being purposefully discriminatory towards this individual. It is being celebrated and reinforced by other members of this board. It is a divisive subject, and one that needs careful, open minded debate. Not a off the cuff discriminatory comment.
I think this thread should be closed before people overstep Further.
Especially with this non binary thing where you can identify as whatever you want, so without being trans you can identify as trans until the Olympic games is done. Snowflake city, nobody wants to upset the trans people, how about we tell them the hard truth.Zlatan wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:37 amIt is wrong.
As a teenage lad all those years ago I was a county standard Butterfly swimmer and I was posting times that would have qualified me for the women’s Olympic team if I became a trans athlete (of course not an issue 35 years ago). How many mediocre male athletes are going to be “persuaded” to compete as a trans person in order to win?
A very sensitive subject for you it seems. While he might chose the opposite gender, he still remains in a male body, that is factual. You are arguing against facts and the entire topic was based upon sporting fairness. The whole non binary thing allows people to be recognised by whatever gender they want, it doesn't make it factually correct though. Demi Lovato is a female, wether she wants to accept that or not.Claret_tinted wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:26 pmYou couldn’t be more wrong if you tried. She, SHE, is a legally recognised women.
The ethics of sporting competition is open for debate but not her gender. ‘They’, as you refer, are people, humans, who have undergone a transition to change gender and therefore the right to choose their gender and be referred by that gender. You’re legally bound to adhere to that.
By all means being valid, rationale, and informed debate about transgender athletes competing in competition, but don’t belittle and demean yourself with playground taunts.
Well I can think of two women that have won women's events (including Olympic ones) that other women athletes were not happy about them being allowed to take part and no one was questioning their genderKateR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:45 pmwell I never, uniformed people making ill informed comments about something they are clueless about.
The actual question from the OP was easy to answer I think, but then people tried justifying their comments with nonsense.
The OP question will be for the vast majority be no, and the obvious rational being she/he's a bloke pretending to be female, it's also a no for me by the way but I suspect for many different reasons to the many justifying the no here. Has anybody actually ever transitioned just to win a race, I don't know, has any trans person won a major sporting event in any sport, to the best of my knowledge the answer to that is no but would love for someone to enlighten me on that.
There are so many nuances to the whole thing, when do people transition, go on hormones? Will doing it pre puberty make much difference, it's not like a guy has grown a big frame and developed muscle mass, nor will a women have developed boobs, one getting rid of testosterone and one avidly trying to increase it.
For me the only solution in the future will be for trans people to have their own sporting events, yet I know this will never happen, no sponsors, vast majority not interested to watch etc. so a nonstarter for me, in the end someone is going to miss out.
She has to be dedicated, no chance she'll ever come out of this well regardless of whether she wins or losses, I feel for her and also for the women who's place she will undoubtedly have taken.
The penguin olympics where humans run.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:04 amI don’t think it should be allowed it should be men & women only & that’s it with no exceptions, without discriminating I think allowing mixed genders just complicates things & opens the floodgates for other genders/sexes to come out of the woodwork, keep it simple & hassle free & everybody knows what’s what.
There's a reason why 11 year olds aren't allowed to consent to sexual intercourse, and aren't allowed tattoos, and why the ancient action of castrating small boys to make castrati was banned many years ago. They are not old enough to make that decision at that age.
The topic is a sensitive one for society. I feel the same as many on the board, and have stated so previously.KRBFC wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:59 pmA very sensitive subject for you it seems. While he might chose the opposite gender, he still remains in a male body, that is factual. You are arguing against facts and the entire topic was based upon sporting fairness. The whole non binary thing allows people to be recognised by whatever gender they want, it doesn't make it factually correct though. Demi Lovato is a female, wether she wants to accept that or not.
I don't think the vast majority of people on here give toss, about how she aligns herself, or what she chooses to do to her body. The ire is more likely due to the fact that she shouldn't have to be told to step aside, she should have enough sense to see it for herself. To attempt to compete in a female competition, especially a strength event, is completely selfish, and undermines the whole spirit of sport. If she had just transgendered none of us would ever have heard of her. She's brought all the animosity on herself.Claret_tinted wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:48 pmWe’re not discussing the sporting ethical stance. On that matter I personally feel it is unfair to allow transgender women athletes who have transitioned post puberty to compete in open disciplines non transgender women. This is being played out in US collegiate sport currently. There are a number of legal cases going ahead that will be heard this year.
I am calling to light certain posters who are being purposefully discriminatory towards this individual. It is being celebrated and reinforced by other members of this board. It is a divisive subject, and one that needs careful, open minded debate. Not a off the cuff discriminatory comment.
I think this thread should be closed before people overstep Further.
You're right, sometimes you have to be brutally honest and risk offending a sensitive snowflake. The whole desire to please everybody just doesn't work, the world has gone ape **** with pandering to everyone. I wish I could personally intervene every time I hear Sol Campbell speak about how he's not given jobs because of his skin color, i'd love to remind him it's nothing to do with his skin color and more to do with his ego maniac personality and w*nk managerial CV. I'd also love to remind Demi Lovato she is a female, not a they/them. Bring back Piers Morgan I sayBoss Hogg wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:50 pmSome good points on here. I think this person should be allowed to compete but it needs to be in a trans category. If there are too few contenders to begin with it then so be it. It is up to someone to challenge them and more and more probably would over time. It’s infringing on women’s rights otherwise and sporting fairness.