It was good while it lasted

What are you using?
Toby, Mepps, Droppen or maybe slinky bobs?

Not really. Going out against Germany one of the most successful nations, an incredibly well developed footballing nation which produces some of the best players and coaches in the world is far from a failure.

People need to stop this divine right nonsense.

I’d have been more happy at least with the quarter finals but the last 16 has such a hollow ring to it . I think we could produce a shock and take the Germans to penalties again so a glorious exit is on the cards

I wasn't aware we'd been knocked out yet, yes it'll be tough, but we do have a chance if we can press them and make it a fast paced game, if we allow them to control the tempo though we're asking for trouble as Portugal found to their cost.

I do understand why the OP is so downbeat however given our appalling record against the Germans at major tournaments over the past 50+ years, they always seem to be our nemesis.

Dyched wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:20 pm

Not really. Going out against Germany one of the most successful nations, an incredibly well developed footballing nation which produces some of the best players and coaches in the world is far from a failure.

People need to stop this divine right nonsense.

Divine right or not why have England been failing in major tournaments for decades when at least one of Spain, France, Italy and Germany seem to be thereabouts every competition?

When one of those teams fail they tend to regroup within a couple of years and come back stronger. England on the other hand don't.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:34 pm

Divine right or not why have England been failing in major tournaments for decades when at least one of Spain, France, Italy and Germany seem to be thereabouts every competition?

When one of those teams fail they tend to regroup within a couple of years and come back stronger. England on the other hand don't.

We don’t we get rid of the manager & then get another & another & that perpetual cycle continues followed by failure.

So England are being criticising for winning their group and being drawn against one of the favourites for the tournament in the last 16? Nonsensical.

Looking at the way the draw pans out England are (again) very fortunate as Belgium, Italy, France, Portugal and Spain are all now in the other half of the draw. If we can beat Germany...who seem to have a real inconsistency atm.....then the competition really opens up.

England will beat Germany.

No difference in losing in the last 16 or the final - you either win it or you don't. What do we get for finishing 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th etc etc ?

I think we can beat Germany

Longsider wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:49 pm

England will beat Germany.

Thats the spirit!

They don't like it up 'em.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:43 pm

So England are being criticising for winning their group and being drawn against one of the favourites for the tournament in the last 16? Nonsensical.

At the start of the tournament England were 4/1 Favourites with Betfair (5/1 WH) whilst Germany were available at a general 8/1.

It is in fact Germany who are playing the pre tournament favourites.

The appalling record against the Germans is not actually as bad as made out tbh. You could argue that they have beaten us just once in 90 minutes at a major tournament since June 1970, and that was the shambles where Lampard’s goal was disallowed a yard inside the net.

They are very poor defensively and I would prefer to play them than either France or Portugal because both those sides have more match winners. Other than Hungary this is probably the best draw possible and certainly for after this game if we can get through.

I tend to think that England are suffering from poor management and tactics (not getting the most out of our better players due to a fearful, overly pragmatic approach).

However, this is the worst Germany team for quite some time - no doubts we can win. In fact, the route nas now opened, again, to the final.

What I would say though is that England aren’t great either, for all this talk of the golden generation. Pickford has had many better predecessors, Maguire isn’t Terry, Shaw isn’t Cole, Kane isn’t Shearer (certainly isn’t a Lewandowski), Grealish isn’t Scholes. I could go on.

Despite all the above context though - would a R16 exit be failure? Yes. Definately.

We’ll beat Germany.

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:06 pm

I tend to think that England are suffering from poor management and tactics (not getting the most out of our better players due to a fearful, overly pragmatic approach).

However, this is the worst Germany team for quite some time - no doubts we can win. In fact, the route nas now opened, again, to the final.

What I would say though is that England aren’t great either, for all this talk of the golden generation. Pickford has had many better predecessors, Maguire isn’t Terry, Shaw isn’t Cole, Kane isn’t Shearer (certainly isn’t a Lewandowski), Grealish isn’t Scholes. I could go on.

Despite all the above context though - would a R16 exit be failure? Yes. Definately.

Golden generation? What - another one?

Funny (to me at least) how people look at success and failure in this competition.
you either win it or you're an also ran, at what stage you get knocked out is sort of irrelevant.

England can and I think will beat Germany.

There’s such a strange mentality from so many fans in the era of social media.

I’m sure as the game gets nearer optimism will rise and we will all sit down in front of our TVs thinking it will be different this time. We always do and we always end up disappointed.
Better losing to Germany than Hungary I suppose.
Nothing to do with the era of social media, we’ve been getting beaten by Germany in tournaments going back half a century

Getting beaten by Germany in a one-off game is not a failure, if it happens. We've not pulled up any trees so far, but we've yet to concede a goal and topped our group. I'm not sure what people expect. England fans are the absolute worst, the expectations are ridiculous and we're seemingly unable to support them in achieving those expectations. Just waiting "for the inevitable" so we can say "see, we're rubbish". It's the worst of all worlds, unable to accept being the plucky underdog while simultaneously expecting us to fail against any real opposition. It's just so joyless, have a beer and cheer them on. See if you might enjoy yourself.

scouseclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:18 pm

Golden generation? What - another one?

Confident we will reach the Semi Final, for me anything but lifting the trophy means, good try, you're in the top ten teams of Europe but not quite good enough to win it, which is obviously the aim.

We were part of the group that won WW2 & delivered brexit & you could logically argue the 2 are intrinsically linked, let’s go for the treble.

only a complete tool could link those two.

and i doubt we'll beat germany but at least don't write us off already.

Elizabeth wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:39 pm

Nothing to do with the era of social media, we’ve been getting beaten by Germany in tournaments going back half a century

Then why would it be deemed a failure to get beat now? You literally don't make sense.

It's a classic set-up for the manager once more to go into his shell. I suspect he'll be looking for another clean sheet. It's a dangerous game to play, simply because the opposition have better players than anything England have met so far.

Says a lot about people’s mentality does this thread, I’d hate to be so hyper vigilant like some on here, just relax and try and enjoy it, we are certainly good enough to beat that side, it’s not exactly City v Burnley in the FA cup 4th round

I'm reasonably happy it's Germany we've got and not France. They're not the force they were and but for some diabolical defending by Portugal which papered over the German cracks. Portugal really were awful defensively against them the other day. It could have been a different story.
The only thing I'd say is don't let Mings near the England defence against Germany. Every game I have seen him play he's lost his player from incoming crosses. That's where the Germans profited against Portugal.
The past needs to be consigned to the past and concentrate on the Germany of here and now. A few talented individuals but not the team they were.
This is what's worrying about the opening post. If we lose it'll be regarded as glorious failure against our 'nemesis'. Win and the media hysteria will go into overdrive. They're not the force they were and very much beatable.
I'm quietly confident we have the team to beat Germany. The question is. Which England are going to turn up?

England tend to perform better against the bigger teams. I’m happy it’s Germany

We're in the last 16 against a side that are vulnerable unlike those ever so unlucky plucky Scots who, in spite of their irresistable, scintillating football, an avalanche of goals and indomitable spirit, failed yet again and boogied right off in humiliating fashion.

We, at least, have a real chance of progressing if, as stated above, we turn up and go for it. If we don't, we'll go out and it will be fair enough - we're good but not that good.

Get through and, well, we'll see who's up next.

TheOriginalLongsider wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:52 am

England tend to perform better against the bigger teams.

Really?

No doubt someone in the media will say it’s a chance of redemption for Southgate’s penalty miss in Euro 96.

Germany have struggled a bit for a few years now. Going through on the back of three tough games, home advantage for England.

I’m quite confident.

BurnleyFC wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:09 pm

We’ll beat Germany.

And this is why a last-16 exit is a failure.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:09 am

We were part of the group that won WW2 & delivered brexit & you could logically argue the 2 are intrinsically linked, let’s go for the treble.

You can't make it up. What absolute drivel.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:43 pm

So England are being criticising for winning their group and being drawn against one of the favourites for the tournament in the last 16? Nonsensical.

Not nonsensical, Southgate has been given a group of the most talented players we have had since the 1960s.They are capable of attacking with pace skill and power. Southgate has instilled fear in them, they hesitate, withdraw into defence mode after 30 minutes. These players should frighten the life out of the opposition when in possession moving forward, but they don't. If England are prevented from playing to their strengths, as they have been, we will lose and in will have been a failure. I have a feeling that Southgate will be Germanys best weapon.

Only on a Burnley forum could you find someone labelling the team a failure 5days before they play

The OP clearly waving their rod in the water hoping to get a few nibbles

Just my opinion but I think it's all set up for another England v Sweden quarter final

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:56 am

Only on a Burnley forum could you find someone labelling the team a failure 5days before they play

The question was IF we exit the competition in 5 days time, will it be a failure. So far, given the players at Southgate disposal, looking at the quality of the opposition and our performances, England have fallen short. We are capable of beating Germany and looking good doing it, I just don't believe that Southgate will set up the team tactically and mentally for that to happen

gtclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:56 am

Not nonsensical, Southgate has been given a group of the most talented players we have had since the 1960s.They are capable of attacking with pace skill and power. Southgate has instilled fear in them, they hesitate, withdraw into defence mode after 30 minutes. These players should frighten the life out of the opposition when in possession moving forward, but they don't. If England are prevented from playing to their strengths, as they have been, we will lose and in will have been a failure. I have a feeling that Southgate will be Germanys best weapon.

Totally agree.

gtclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:09 am

The question was IF we exit the competition in 5 days time, will it be a failure. So far, given the players at Southgate disposal, looking at the quality of the opposition and our performances, England have fallen short. We are capable of beating Germany and looking good doing it, I just don't believe that Southgate will set up the team tactically and mentally for that to happen

It is titled "Exit at last 16 is a failure", then the comment added "it was good while it lasted" Might be me but I am struggling to see an IF in there.


As for IF we do go out will it be a failure ? It would depend I guess on what you expect from England. Do I think can beat Germany ? - Yes although I am not arsed about looking good if we do but I expect very little from England with Southgate in charge.

It will be a failure if they play with the handbrake on again, too regularly turning attacking opportunities into "safe possession". I think I'd prefer they give it a proper go and get beat, than watch another game like the last three..

Use the pace that's in the squad (yep ditch Kane) and Germany will struggle to cope with England on the front foot. Feels like that's been said for a few years now though. Here's hoping this time....

Elizabeth wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:39 pm

I’m sure as the game gets nearer optimism will rise and we will all sit down in front of our TVs thinking it will be different this time. We always do and we always end up disappointed.
Better losing to Germany than Hungary I suppose.
Nothing to do with the era of social media, we’ve been getting beaten by Germany in tournaments going back half a century

Well we didn’t in 2000 and we gave them a decent game in 2001.

In fact our head to head is very close. Even in the last ten we have won 4.

I've no idea what they score might or might not be and who will claim the victory but I've got a feeling it will be one of those engrossing type of games where you're glued to it. The weather won't be crazy hot, we've had a week to prepare and rest up. Really looking forward to this one. England v Germany at Wembley in a major tournament at the knockout stage, gets my juices flowing.

International class wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:12 am

No doubt someone in the media will say it’s a chance of redemption for Southgate’s penalty miss in Euro 96.

Well. It kind of is.

I’m no England fan, but by god I hope they win it to shove it right up some of you. Nothings ever good enough, semi finals of World Cup against expectations (easy route), very good nations league performance (not good enough), solid qualifying (it was easy), top of group no dramas 7 points, no goals conceded (but why didn’t he pway Gwealish, it so unfair, and why does he start Sterling he’s shite other than His 14 goals in the last 18 internationals what does he do)….. I hope they win it just to show the idiocy of the assessment of the England team, and defeatist nature that too many have.

dandeclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:45 am

I’m no England fan, but by god I hope they win it to shove it right up some of you. Nothings ever good enough, semi finals of World Cup against expectations (easy route), very good nations league performance (not good enough), solid qualifying (it was easy), top of group no dramas 7 points, no goals conceded (but why didn’t he pway Gwealish, it so unfair, and why does he start Sterling he’s shite other than His 14 goals in the last 18 internationals what does he do)….. I hope they win it just to show the idiocy of the assessment of the England team, and defeatist nature that too many have.

I'm looking forward to reading the comments if we beat Germany. I wonder what may not be good enough about that?

superdimitri wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:48 am

I'm looking forward to reading the comments if we beat Germany. I wonder what may not be good enough about that?

A German side in transition with a manager leaving. Will be some excuse like that.

Knockout game at Wembley against Germany after a **** 16-18 months, in front of fans, pubs are open just enjoy it ffs