Nathan Collins

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ClaretTony
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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:31 pm

SouthLondonexile wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:20 pm
I don’t think we have another Gibson, although we are still none the wiser what went wrong there.
If Collins is that good I would say - and yes I have banged on about this for a couple of years now - move Tarky into midfield .
Why on earth would you move Tarkowski into midfield?

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:26 pm

I'm probably not alone in thinking that 3 centrebacks (Collins being the 3rd) may not be a bad idea against some teams.

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by ClaretAndBlue94 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:59 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:31 pm
Why on earth would you move Tarkowski into midfield?
He once did a Cruyff turn :?:
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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by claretandy » Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:13 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:26 pm
I'm probably not alone in thinking that 3 centrebacks (Collins being the 3rd) may not be a bad idea against some teams.
This, Mee has played left back, Collins has played right back, Tarky in the middle spraying it about.

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:25 pm

claretandy wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:13 pm
This, Mee has played left back, Collins has played right back, Tarky in the middle spraying it about.
I just do not understand how any Burnley fan can think playing three at the back with out squad is a good idea.

All of our CBs for the premier league are relatively slow and poor on the ball. We would get stretched and ripped apart.

There is a reason we play with a compact bank of two fours. It’s to protect our CBs from being exposed 1 on 1.

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:53 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:25 pm
I just do not understand how any Burnley fan can think playing three at the back with out squad is a good idea.
Just these weird ideas people have

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by claretandy » Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:06 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:25 pm
I just do not understand how any Burnley fan can think playing three at the back with out squad is a good idea.

All of our CBs for the premier league are relatively slow and poor on the ball. We would get stretched and ripped apart.

There is a reason we play with a compact bank of two fours. It’s to protect our CBs from being exposed 1 on 1.
It's not a 3 though is it, it's a 5 out of possession.
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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by Indecisive » Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:09 pm

Just don’t see how Tarks is a midfielder. He’s a fantastic centre half but surely too bulky and cumbersome for a midfield role in my opinion. Weird that anyone would want to convert him.

I like how Dyche talks about the new players. Players need the appetite and desire to improve and to fight. If they expect to walk in, they won’t get far with Dyche. Tarks is a great example of knuckling down in the background, and biding his time for when he had the opportunity to step up.

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by tiger76 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:55 pm

Why all the clamour for Collins to start, he was clearly signed with one eye on next season, if or when Tarks goes.

And as happened with Tarks before him, who ultimately replaced Keane, a season settling in and learning his trade will serve us well in the long run.

Let's not forget the lad is only 20, and hasn't played a huge number of games in the Championship for Stoke, and sure as eggs are eggs, if SD did pitch him into a PL game, and he made a mistake which led to us conceding, there would be many on this board complaining about him not being good enough, and branding him a waste of money.

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by warksclaret » Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:11 pm

I have sprung a leak in my bathroom-let me see if my electrician friend can repair it

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:18 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:53 pm
Just these weird ideas people have
Another weird idea I have:
i don't understand overlapping full-backs in a 4-4-2 that includes 2 wingers??
Perhaps I'm just weird. :D

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by tiger76 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:28 pm

Indecisive wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:09 pm
Just don’t see how Tarks is a midfielder. He’s a fantastic centre half but surely too bulky and cumbersome for a midfield role in my opinion. Weird that anyone would want to convert him.

I like how Dyche talks about the new players. Players need the appetite and desire to improve and to fight. If they expect to walk in, they won’t get far with Dyche. Tarks is a great example of knuckling down in the background, and biding his time for when he had the opportunity to step up.
I agree daft idea to move our best player, but this notion isn't new, it has been suggested by a particular poster a few years ago.

Call me old-fashioned, but if we need to strengthen our midfield, why don't we sign a specialist in that position.

And also if our fringe players want to be considered for 1st team selection, put your hand up and grab the chance when it presents itself, as Jay Rod did against Rochdale.

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:31 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:28 pm
I agree daft idea to move our best player, but this notion isn't new, it has been suggested by a particular poster a few years ago.

Call me old-fashioned, but if we need to strengthen our midfield, why don't we sign a specialist in that position.

And also if our fringe players want to be considered for 1st team selection, put your hand up and grab the chance when it presents itself, as Jay Rod did against Rochdale.
So you think (or know) that Jay will start against Leicester?

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:38 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:18 pm
Another weird idea I have:
i don't understand overlapping full-backs in a 4-4-2 that includes 2 wingers??
Perhaps I'm just weird. :D
We've been playing like that four almost nine years now

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by tiger76 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:39 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:31 pm
So you think (or know) that Jay will start against Leicester?
I have no idea if Jay will start against Leicester, but he's at least given SD a decision to make now, and that's all any of our squad players can do if they want to press for a starting berth.

I'd imagine Wood will start tomorrow, so the question is who plays alongside him, and TBH I'll be content with either Jay or Vydra, if it's Ashley Barnes again then I'll despair, because he and Wood together just ain't working, so we might as well try a different combo up top, let's be honest they can hardly fare any worse can they.

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:43 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:38 pm
We've been playing like that four almost nine years now
Yes, it worked really well with Arfield and Boyd who are not really wingers.
My feeling is that we get caught with defenders (Taylor, particularly) too far upfield, and are asking genuine wingers to play as full backs a bit too often.

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by ClaretAL » Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:01 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:38 pm
We've been playing like that four almost nine years now
Different players available now, so maybe the reasoning behind "if Dyche was given the money and better players he wouldn't play 442 as he is just playing to our strengths" will be tested.

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:09 pm

claretandy wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:06 pm
It's not a 3 though is it, it's a 5 out of possession.
Yes and do you not think teams will realise that when we have the ball it turns into a 3 5 2 with the full backs getting forward to attack.

With three slow CBs that have been proven to poor at one on ones it is a recipe for disaster.

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:19 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:09 pm
Yes and do you not think teams will realise that when we have the ball it turns into a 3 5 2 with the full backs getting forward to attack.

With three slow CBs that have been proven to poor at one on ones it is a recipe for disaster.
But it's OK with 2 slow CBs?

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:02 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:19 pm
But it's OK with 2 slow CBs?
Yes because they are protected in a compact bank of two fours.

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:12 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:02 pm
Yes because they are protected in a compact bank of two fours.
That hasn't been working very well, though.

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by claretandy » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:15 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:09 pm
Yes and do you not think teams will realise that when we have the ball it turns into a 3 5 2 with the full backs getting forward to attack.

With three slow CBs that have been proven to poor at one on ones it is a recipe for disaster.
Collins is slow ? And Tarkys no slouch either.

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by Iloveyoubrady » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:17 pm

Collins is our quickest centre back. Tarks is slow but strong enough to hold off an attacker. Mee is very slow but doesn’t matter in our system.

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:33 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:19 pm
But it's OK with 2 slow CBs?
Yes because it’s a completely different system

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by taio » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:39 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:33 pm
Yes because it’s a completely different system
They aren't slow.

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:50 pm

taio wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:39 pm
They aren't slow.
Yes they are, that’s why they back off so much when players run at them. It’s because if any striker in the league gets on the wrong side of them they are not fast enough to recover

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by taio » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:54 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:50 pm
Yes they are, that’s why they back off so much when players run at them. It’s because if any striker in the league gets on the wrong side of them they are not fast enough to recover
That doesn't mean they are slow. It doesn't happen often in any case. And while I'm not in favour of playing three centre halves, pace is certainly not the primary reason for not doing so.

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Re: Nathan Collins

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:13 pm

TBH, my reason for liking 3 CBs is that a midfield 5 would give us better control of the middle of the pitch.

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