Net Zero Spend ?

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Yorkshirelad
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Net Zero Spend ?

Post by Yorkshirelad » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:40 am

We have sold various players this year and received money for others Jimmy Dunne, Josh Benson , payment came through for Ben Gibson. So far we have bought Nathan Collins.
So does that mean we have potentially spent nothing this year so far. If what I'm saying is true then that could be classed as good house keeping or if your glass is half empty. Nothing as changed.
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Herts Clarets
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by Herts Clarets » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:57 am

You remember how threadbare our squad was last season. So far we have signed

Collins
Hennesey

And released

Brady
Gibson
Dunne
Benson

And BPF and Mumbongo out on loan. Accepting that Gibson wasn't with us last season, it still puts us 3 players light on the squad that at times only filled the subs bench by naming 3 goalkeepers.
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burnley007
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by burnley007 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:42 am

Herts Clarets wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:57 am
You remember how threadbare our squad was last season. So far we have signed

Collins
Hennesey

And released

Brady
Gibson
Dunne
Benson

And BPF and Mumbongo out on loan. Accepting that Gibson wasn't with us last season, it still puts us 3 players light on the squad that at times only filled the subs bench by naming 3 goalkeepers.
I'm generally optimistic, but the lack of any progress is starting to worry me, it's all well and good talking about the end of August for potential signings, but that's a few games into the season!

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by RammyClaret61 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:02 am

It’ll all be different when the takeover goes through.
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tiger76
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by tiger76 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:05 am

Herts Clarets wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:57 am
You remember how threadbare our squad was last season. So far we have signed

Collins
Hennesey

And released

Brady
Gibson
Dunne
Benson

And BPF and Mumbongo out on loan. Accepting that Gibson wasn't with us last season, it still puts us 3 players light on the squad that at times only filled the subs bench by naming 3 goalkeepers.
I posted something similar on another thread, and yes our lack of bodies in the 1st team squad is frightening just days before the season commences.

Surely Pace & Co must realise how urgent it is too get bodies in the building, now that doesn't mean we just sign any Tom, Dick or Harry, but we have to start getting some of these deals signed and sealed that we've been working on for the last month or so, our bench will be dire against Brighton at this rate if we don't turn words into action.

And don't forget that many of those who featured on our subs bench last season have now been sold or released, including a few development players, I have no issue with those players that have been let go, clearly they were deemed as not out to pushing for a 1st team spot, so fair enough let's move them on, and generate funds to increase our transfer kitty, but that strategy only works if we replace those said squad members, we surely can't expect to survive with the squad as it currently stands, we can just about put out a decent first XI, but beyond that we're struggling, and that's even before the inevitable injuries hit.

dsr
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by dsr » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:10 am

We've signed four players for the under 23 squad who could replace Benson and Mumbongo. Collins replaces Dunne, Hennessey replaces BPF, Gibson wasn't in the quad last year so his absence doesn't make any difference at all, so only Brady still to be replaced to have equal or better numbers in the squad compared with last year.

By all means argue that we haven't signed enough players or enough good players, but arguing that we are 3 players light when we are actually only 1 player light and have 5 weeks to go, is being pessimistic for pessimism's sake.
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randomclaret2
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by randomclaret2 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:43 am

dsr wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:10 am
We've signed four players for the under 23 squad who could replace Benson and Mumbongo. Collins replaces Dunne, Hennessey replaces BPF, Gibson wasn't in the quad last year so his absence doesn't make any difference at all, so only Brady still to be replaced to have equal or better numbers in the squad compared with last year.

By all means argue that we haven't signed enough players or enough good players, but arguing that we are 3 players light when we are actually only 1 player light and have 5 weeks to go, is being pessimistic for pessimism's sake.
Youre working on the base assumption that last year's squad was sufficiently strong .It wasn't.

dsr
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by dsr » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:47 am

randomclaret2 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:43 am
Youre working on the base assumption that last year's squad was sufficiently strong .It wasn't.
No I'm not. I'm stating that we have 1 fewer first team player in the squad than last year. That makes no assumptions whatsoever about how strong the squad was.

ksrclaret
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by ksrclaret » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:48 am

Hi Yorkshirelad,

Exciting times.

UTC

Claretpundit
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by Claretpundit » Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:16 pm

We know that the current owners have no cash. They are existing on debt. So surely no surprise we have a zero spend. The income coming in is probably only expected to cover the cost of debt management and cost of the existing squad. Hope I'm wrong but if someone else can come forward with more encouraging information on club finances I would love to hear it

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by s6t9a2f3f » Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:18 pm

Claretpundit wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:16 pm
We know that the current owners have no cash. They are existing on debt. So surely no surprise we have a zero spend. The income coming in is probably only expected to cover the cost of debt management and cost of the existing squad. Hope I'm wrong but if someone else can come forward with more encouraging information on club finances I would love to hear it
SPOT ON

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by Boss Hogg » Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:26 pm

Even with a couple of signings we are still light. We haven’t properly replaced exiting players over a number of seasons. It’s a Shame we didn’t have someone different at the helm whilst we had cash in the bank. The looming takeover / greed and I suspect a fall out with Dyche ( perhaps over Gibson and wasted funds) stopped Garlick spending at all in my opinion. Any purchasing now is funded with debt or net proceeds of sales. We also the added board overheads that we didn’t have before.

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by BOYSIE31 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:32 pm

Why does nobody question where the manager is shopping season after season

Spijed
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by Spijed » Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:41 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:32 pm
Why does nobody question where the manager is shopping season after season
Probably because he keeps us in the Premier League season after season.
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claretonthecoast1882
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:53 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:32 pm
Why does nobody question where the manager is shopping season after season
I did he said Waitrose mainly

Chester Perry
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:57 pm

In response to the OP - we are currently in profit on amortisation and it is probable the same on wages.

As for fees incoming and outgoing - it would seem we have spent more than we have brought in maybe by £2m -£4m

In cash terms this summer so much depends on how much we will have paid Stoke up front - given the dramatic slow down in acquisitions I have begun to wonder if we had to pay a large portion up front - The cash we have for up front payments will be relatively finite (my thought was it would be around £12m - £15m, that is more a view on the expected revenue uplift this season and accounting for the spend at both the Turf and Gawthorpe including the investment in the women and the additional costs of the new ownership model)

aggi
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by aggi » Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:12 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:43 am
Youre working on the base assumption that last year's squad was sufficiently strong .It wasn't.
It clearly was strong enough.

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by randomclaret2 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:23 pm

aggi wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:12 pm
It clearly was strong enough.
If you're happy with being in a relegation battle all season and finishing 17th, certainly. I know many folk are obviously.

Chester Perry
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:25 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:23 pm
If you're happy with being in a relegation battle all season and finishing 17th, certainly. I know many folk are obviously.
That is an entirely different point - aggi was right in his answer to a very specific point, that does not mean he was/is happy with the squad strength

Spijed
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by Spijed » Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:44 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:23 pm
If you're happy with being in a relegation battle all season and finishing 17th, certainly. I know many folk are obviously.
But we always will be. How many mid table sides (unlikely to go down) do you think the Premier league can accommodate, considering there are only 20 teams in the league?

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by Herts Clarets » Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:45 pm

dsr wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:10 am
We've signed four players for the under 23 squad who could replace Benson and Mumbongo. Collins replaces Dunne, Hennessey replaces BPF, Gibson wasn't in the quad last year so his absence doesn't make any difference at all, so only Brady still to be replaced to have equal or better numbers in the squad compared with last year.

By all means argue that we haven't signed enough players or enough good players, but arguing that we are 3 players light when we are actually only 1 player light and have 5 weeks to go, is being pessimistic for pessimism's sake.
That's a huge assumption that the U23 signings are of the required standard to sit on the bench and if necessary come off it to play in the Premier League. Dunne and Benson were clearly not good enough, hence they have been sold. We may well have signed upgrades on these 2, the fact at present is no one knows. I will reiterate, last season we struggled to put out a squad with enough players to fill a sub's bench. We only managed to do this by naming 3 keepers and inexperienced kids. We went a number of games where me made not a single substitution, primarily because we had no one capable of replacing any of the starting 11. We finished 1 place above the relegation positions, albeit with a decent points margin. The squad are all a year older, we have so far failed to sign a single player who you would say improves or even matches our starting eleven. As in most fields, if you stand still then you in effect move backwards as all your competitors are improving and moving forwards. I am sure i don't need to spell out the consequences of even a single backwards step in our league position against that of 2020/21...
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Chester Perry
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:52 pm

Herts Clarets wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:45 pm
That's a huge assumption that the U23 signings are of the required standard to sit on the bench and if necessary come off it to play in the Premier League. Dunne and Benson were clearly not good enough, hence they have been sold. We may well have signed upgrades on these 2, the fact at present is no one knows. I will reiterate, last season we struggled to put out a squad with enough players to fill a sub's bench. We only managed to do this by naming 3 keepers and inexperienced kids. We went a number of games where me made not a single substitution, primarily because we had no one capable of replacing any of the starting 11. We finished 1 place above the relegation positions, albeit with a decent points margin. The squad are all a year older, we have so far failed to sign a single player who you would say improves or even matches our starting eleven. As in most fields, if you stand still then you in effect move backwards as all your competitors are improving and moving forwards. I am sure i don't need to spell out the consequences of even a single backwards step in our league position against that of 2020/21...
we were far from the the only team in this situation in both the restart and last season - it is one of the features of the 25 man squad system - yes some clubs have much stronger development set-ups but is telling just how few clubs make use of them on the pitch unless they are down to the bare bones.

Some managers prefer smaller squads - Nuno was well known for it at Wolves and I am sure it will have appealed to Daniel Levy at Tottenham, Even Sean Dyche appears to prefer a smaller squad than 25 and his development set-up is a lot less bedded in than most clubs.

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:55 pm

Herts Clarets wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:45 pm
That's a huge assumption that the U23 signings are of the required standard to sit on the bench and if necessary come off it to play in the Premier League. Dunne and Benson were clearly not good enough, hence they have been sold. We may well have signed upgrades on these 2, the fact at present is no one knows. I will reiterate, last season we struggled to put out a squad with enough players to fill a sub's bench. We only managed to do this by naming 3 keepers and inexperienced kids. We went a number of games where me made not a single substitution, primarily because we had no one capable of replacing any of the starting 11. We finished 1 place above the relegation positions, albeit with a decent points margin. The squad are all a year older, we have so far failed to sign a single player who you would say improves or even matches our starting eleven. As in most fields, if you stand still then you in effect move backwards as all your competitors are improving and moving forwards. I am sure i don't need to spell out the consequences of even a single backwards step in our league position against that of 2020/21...
Didn't we offer Dunne a contract?

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by tim_noone » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:23 pm

RammyClaret61 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:02 am
It’ll all be different when the takeover goes through.
You mean.......it hasn't? :shock:

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:28 pm

Claretpundit wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:16 pm
We know that the current owners have no cash. They are existing on debt. So surely no surprise we have a zero spend. The income coming in is probably only expected to cover the cost of debt management and cost of the existing squad. Hope I'm wrong but if someone else can come forward with more encouraging information on club finances I would love to hear it
How do you know they've got no cash?

You then mention some other stuff, followed by you hope you're wrong can anyone provide information to counter your claims....

The accounts next year will reveal most of it, but most of you naysayers aren't willing, or interested, in waiting for any length of time.

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by leightonjameslegend » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:33 pm

Net spend for Burnley over the last 5 years is just 22.09M. So how can anyone can be blaming the new board for transfers to date?
If we spend say another 20m on a couple of players as is being muted we will potentially have matched our net spend over a 5 year period. Hardly a disaster!

Other clubs spend: Brighton 212m, Aston Villa 247.6m, Wolves 196.8m even Leeds have spent 106.39m.
Only Watford has spent less than us at 14.10m.

The reality is tough unless you have a billionaire owner!

lrac
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by lrac » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:40 pm

So am right in thinking burnley are skint again.great bit of business from our old owners.frying pan into the fire stuff

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by williamjblazkowicz » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:44 pm

The thing is, we've been kicking the can down the road for so long that we're not only light on bodies, we've got one of the oldest squads in the Premier League. That's not all bad -- there's plenty of experience there. However, this issue is only going to get worse unless we get players in soon -- and they'll need to be younger. Collins was a good start. Let's hope there's more to come.

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by leightonjameslegend » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:05 pm

lrac wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:40 pm
So am right in thinking burnley are skint again.great bit of business from our old owners.frying pan into the fire stuff
Not skint, but the new owners are trying to turn around 5 years of the 2nd lowest spend in the Premier League. There will be 7/8 clubs in the championship with a bigger spend.
Realism has to play a part and if we finish the window spending 35m including Collins and the sales, then it's a pretty decent start.
The new regime will bring in bigger and more sponsors and different revenue streams than the old regime.
We have to give them time.
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Herts Clarets
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by Herts Clarets » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:06 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:55 pm
Didn't we offer Dunne a contract?
Was that so we could get a fee for him when he moved on rather than releasing him for nothing?

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:06 pm

Herts Clarets wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:06 pm
Was that so we could get a fee for him when he moved on rather than releasing him for nothing?
Yeah but that's normal practice in football.

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by Herts Clarets » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:08 pm

I know it is, but i got the impression boatshed was suggesting we offered him a contract because we thought he was good enough rather than for financial benefit
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aggi
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by aggi » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:21 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:23 pm
If you're happy with being in a relegation battle all season and finishing 17th, certainly. I know many folk are obviously.
I'm realistic enough to know that for a club where we are the target, along with half of the other clubs in the league, is to not get relegated.

I'd suggest that anyone who is supporting Burnley and not expecting a relegation battle most years is a bit deluded.
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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:31 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:06 pm
Yeah but that's normal practice in football.
So what if he'd accepted the offer?

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:33 pm

aggi wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:21 pm
I'm realistic enough to know that for a club where we are the target, along with half of the other clubs in the league, is to not get relegated.

I'd suggest that anyone who is supporting Burnley and not expecting a relegation battle most years is a bit deluded.

Nail on head.

Then you read daft comments on this and the transfer threads and realise quite a few are.

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:33 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:23 pm
If you're happy with being in a relegation battle all season and finishing 17th, certainly. I know many folk are obviously.
Perhaps that would be OK but on 2 occasions we have done much better, that raises the expectations.

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:44 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:31 pm
So what if he'd accepted the offer?
We knew he wasn't going to, he'd made it clear he was off, but we have ensured we get a return of some of the money we've spent developing him.
If he'd about turned then he'd be doing so knowing he'd be on the bench the majority of his career or until next Jan/Summer when we'd sell him.

It's common in football, like I've said, no big deal.

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by Spijed » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:50 pm

Go on, since you ask, I'll re-post why we are where we are.

Taken as a given under current circumstances, the big six won't be relegated anytime soon.

That then leaves 14 teams. Add Everton & Leicester unlikely drop in the next season or two.

That leaves 12. You then look at teams such as West Ham, Villa, Wolves & Leeds who've all currently have got a bit of spending power, plus support that many can't match.

All that then leaves are the remaining 8 sides most likely to be fighting the drop.

Now, it's not to say that an unlikely team does far better than predicted, such as ourselves or Sheff United. On the flip side West Ham and Villa under performed in recent seasons.

In reality however, can those who think we should be far more established not realise how difficult that task is?

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Re: Net Zero Spend ?

Post by KRBFC » Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:45 pm

Me and Dychey are still waiting on the Aaron Lennon replacement, nevermind the Brady replacement.

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