tiger76 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:41 am

SD has an awful lot of credit in the bank, but that doesn't mean he has limitless time to turn our fortunes around, however 4 games into the new season is far too early to even be considering changing the guard.

...I don't suspect he's (Alan Pace) anywhere close to the stage of contemplating firing our best manager in a generation, just because we've suffered a few early defeats, performances in all 4 games have been decent, and it's mainly individual errors at the back, and our lack of a killer touch in front of goal that's been the crucial difference.

Wot 'e sed.
Our results might be no better than at this time last year, but the general level of performance so far certainly have been. To my mind the only realistic replacements suggested on this thread have perhaps been Fat Sam, Howe & Wilder and for my money, Wilder would be the least-worst; I'd far rather have Sean Dyche at the helm than any of those, particularly over the long term.

Will we way stay up this season? I honestly don't know, though I do feel that the signing of Maxwell Cornet signals an intention to keep trying, which for a while I feared may not be the case. We currently have a predominantly old/tired/not quite good enough first team squad which I believe is at the beginning of its transition, but thankfully we're not tied to those players by long/expensive contracts and whilst our summer first team signings weren't (until Cornet) particularly exciting, I do think we picked-up some damned good prospects for the youth sides. The task of our current squad is to inexpensively try and keep us out of the bottom three, but if they fail, then they'll either leave quietly, or re-sign at a salary commensurate with their advancing age, fading abilities and our drop to the Championship, with a primary task of mentoring and playing second fiddle to those youngsters.
Financially we could cope with a 'short term' relegation as well as any and far better than most Premiership clubs and in some respects, a year - or even two - down there might make the transition easier; there we could bring more of those youngsters through and get them playing in the first eleven earlier and they are the ones who will take us forward and if necessary back into the EPL.
Burnley cannot and in the short/medium turn at least, will not attract high level established players other than for those wanting 'one last contract' on their way back down, our future success is vested in those youth squads, because if we can show them that there's an opportunity to ply their trade and perhaps most importantly to the best/most ambitious to get themselves 'in the shop window' then they will be attracted to Burnley and will attract others in their wake, at fees/salaries which we can afford to sustain.

I'd like to think that it's a novel idea, but I vaguely remember a couple of chaps called Lord and Potts doing something similar,a year or two back; was that at Barnsley?

s6t9a2f3f wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:09 pm

If we have not got the money or attraction to turn the style of play at the football club and we want a similar manager to SD then an ideal replacement whether you like him or not would be Steve Bruce, a underrated manager who gets the best out of what he has, at times under severe pressure.

I think wilder wouldn’t be a bad choice if SD did go.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:42 pm

I think wilder wouldn’t be a bad choice if SD did go.

Did you watch Sheffield United’s capitulation last season… after Wilder had spent serious money?

diamondpocket wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:13 am

Maybe not but seeing as the question on the topic was this. Everyone has a price and can be lured though. If anyone can ALAN can!

If that’s the case, then why set your sights as low as Potter? We could lure Pep, or persuade Fergie out of retirement. After all, everyone has a price.

As Pearson would say, "is your neck that flexible".

Greenmile wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:30 pm

If that’s the case, then why set your sights as low as Potter? We could lure Pep, or persuade Fergie out of retirement. After all, everyone has a price.

Dare to dream

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:49 pm

Did you watch Sheffield United’s capitulation last season… after Wilder had spent serious money?

I did & I also noticed the season before when he had jack oconnell at his disposal, 1 ropey season doesn’t take away everything else he did previously for me.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:42 pm

I did & I also noticed the season before when he had jack oconnell at his disposal, 1 ropey season doesn’t take away everything else he did previously for me.

Do you think had he been fit Sheff United would have survived?

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:42 pm

I did & I also noticed the season before when he had jack oconnell at his disposal, 1 ropey season doesn’t take away everything else he did previously for me.

I think it fired a big warning light. Wilder did what Dyche had done then failed to follow it up… the difficult second season, Wilder lost control. Dyche may not push to change things quick enough, but neither does he panic.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:44 pm

Do you think had he been fit Sheff United would have survived?

With Henderson yes a definite possibility.

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:49 pm

Did you watch Sheffield United’s capitulation last season… after Wilder had spent serious money?

Imagine if we'd paid £23 million for a striker who then performed as poorly as Brewster ...

Greenmile wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:30 pm

If that’s the case, then why set your sights as low as Potter? We could lure Pep, or persuade Fergie out of retirement. After all, everyone has a price.

It shouldn't stop you trying though, should it.

If he is so out of reach, then what a poor reputation we have. I'd hope that we can compete with the likes of Brighton on the manager's front even if they can offer more on wages and have a bit more cash available. And if he is so out of reach then it shows what a good job he is doing and what ambition Brighton have in becoming a consistent top 10 side. We look nowhere near that. If we're wanting an evolution in style I'd be looking for someone like him.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:06 pm

Who's on your shortlist to succeed him, and what's your reasons for them to be given the BFC gig. sensible replies only please.

Bit of a bump. It’s a message board, so answer the question ^^^^

No need for the super fans to chimp at the ‘moaners’, nor pessimists to deride the confident.

Roy Keane

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:49 pm

Did you watch Sheffield United’s capitulation last season… after Wilder had spent serious money?

Wilder didn't spend that money, the owners did.

Dont want him to go, just want him to be more flexible.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:44 pm

Wilder didn't spend that money, the owners did.

That’s true but I don’t think he was completely blameless in it, Paid well over the odds just in desperation.

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:49 pm

I think it fired a big warning light. Wilder did what Dyche had done then failed to follow it up… the difficult second season, Wilder lost control. Dyche may not push to change things quick enough, but neither does he panic.

A combination of circumstances went against him, don’t think it can’t happen here it could quite easily, didn’t wilder go from L1 to the prem & he had successes before SUFC, slightly different to dyche.

bfcjg wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:07 pm

Dont want him to go, just want him to be more flexible.

Yes that's precisely my feelings, and I could understand his reluctance to change things last season, and he could validly argue we lacked genuine options, however with the arrivals of Cornet & Roberts, SD does now possess the tools to be reactive and not proactive, and if he continues to be wedded to a 4-4-2, and playing Barnes alongside Wood he's testing the patience of even his most ardent defenders, of which I'd consider myself as one.

SD has earned himself leeway to right our fortunes due to his previous successes, but that doesn't mean he'll be given an indefinite amount of time, and as with every other manager it's a result business at the end of the day, and if the results don't start improving soon, you do have to wonder just how long Alan Pace will tolerate us languishing in or around the bottom 3.

Don’t want him to go at all but absolutely want him to react to the game. Those 3 games when we are ahead and their manager changes formation, if we pull Barnes for the extra 3rd CM and block LM up with Pieters instead of McNeil we win 2 out of 3 of them I reckon. I’m not sure if it’s stubbornness or a failure to see. Watching him, Woan and Stone talking into their mouths in the 75th minute before doing like for like plug and play subs is becoming a parody of itself.

If he starts the same 11 and does the same on Saturday then it has to be stubbornness.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:25 pm

Yes that's precisely my feelings, and I could understand his reluctance to change things last season, and he could validly argue we lacked genuine options, however with the arrivals of Cornet & Roberts, SD does now possess the tools to be reactive and not proactive, and if he continues to be wedded to a 4-4-2, and playing Barnes alongside Wood he's testing the patience of even his most ardent defenders, of which I'd consider myself as one.

SD has earned himself leeway to right our fortunes due to his previous successes, but that doesn't mean he'll be given an indefinite amount of time, and as with every other manager it's a result business at the end of the day, and if the results don't start improving soon, you do have to wonder just how long Alan Pace will tolerate us languishing in or around the bottom 3.

I think Pace will even accept relegation if it means keeping dyche at the club.
Not out of a sense of loyalty, but simply because he himself will be aware of the gulf in spending compared to most other teams. why would he risk it all on bringing in someone else when he understand sean dyche has maintained top flight football for so long at Burnley?
Dyche has stayed loyal to the club, in addition he has a wealth of experience in this division, not to mention preparing us for promotion from the league below.
Not too many clubs have managerial longevity, its mostly short lived appointments on enormous salaries and messy contractual shenanigans. I hope it doesnt come down to relegation obviously, but if dyche is prepared to battle it out, I believe most fans would want that too.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:34 am

Well not one single person has provided a short list/new manager and that's not even a shock.

They've plenty to say when it comes to whinging but naff all when it comes to fixing the perceived problems.

That is incorrect.
I suggested Jose Mourinho.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:10 am

That is incorrect.
I suggested Jose Mourinho.

I suggested wilder wouldn’t be a bad choice not that I want SD to leave, how anybody can conclude that people haven’t suggested names when this thread is ongoing I find somewhat premature.

If dyche went we would get relegated he’s the best out there we could possibly have.I actually think we have played some bloody good stuff this season.Just keep having a bad a final third to matches for some reason.It is all about 90 mins but I think we are just going through a bad spell.Not truly worried we could do with tweaking it a bit cork and Vydra in and the new rb maybe.Keep the faith our fortunes will turn soon enough.

When a manager has had his hands tied in terms of finances for a number of years he plays with what he’s got. What I see is a manager who’s experimenting with some slightly more creative football to please the fans, as well as sticking what he knows works, 4 4 2 whilst we are in the early stages of the season. Unfortunately it’s not paying dividends at the moment.

He’s the man to keep us in the premier league and let’s face it, who wouldn’t be confident of keeping most the squad and an instant promotion if we did somehow get an unlikely relegation.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:34 am

Well not one single person has provided a short list/new manager and that's not even a shock.

They've plenty to say when it comes to whinging but naff all when it comes to fixing the perceived problems.

Villas Boas
Lampard
VanBronkhorst and Donadoni both back from China

That’s 4 without even thinking hard.

(Yes, I understand your next statement will be “oh they’d never come to Burnley”)

Ps maybe AVB has unfinished business

We have to stick with him and show him some loyalty. What he’s achieved over several seasons with such a small budget is exceptional. If we were unfortunate to go down I’d still want him in charge. The thought of Roy Keane mentioned earlier would be ideal if you wanted to rip the heart and soul out of the club. The grass isn’t always greener.

I don’t want Dyche out but for the sake of himself and his future career he needs to change and adapt things. The days of clough and Ferguson etc have gone and people certainly from outside the club look at him as old style 4-4-2 manager, That however you dress it up is not desirable to possible employers and it will be less desirable every single season.

Also the situation with Vydra is not a one off, it’s happened before with Bamford, Gibson, defour when he first arrived and he’s mentioned it before about Dwight how he needs to smile more, not everyone is going to be laughing and joking every day on the training pitch some people have different characters and he needs to manage those instead of casting them aside in the case of Vyds because they are different to others in the group… Zaha looks like one of the most miserable buggers on the planet but he’s your best player so you manage his personality not just not pick him.

Cornet can’t speak English so that needs to improv, while he will need to learn the lingo more and settle, that’s not a reason not to pick someone which going off his comments after the Everton game could be a reason not to play him. The way the games going I’m afraid he needs to adapt to it or Burnley FC will be the biggest Job he will have had in management which will be a shame as what’s been achieved in the time he’s been here has been fantastic and he deserves a crack at bigger things.

I reckon Paddy his chance of a PREM gig now has almost disappeared. There have been jobs available over the last few seasons and if anyone had wanted him they would have got him. As you say, he is seen as an old fashioned type of manager and only we will accept that because of his success. Look at the stick Allardyce got for so many years and it took him many more jobs and lots of miracle relegation saviours to finally get recognition and respect.
He'll be offered every job in The Championship after us but nobody in The Prem will go near him unless he changes his ways. You cannot not play a player, a record signing, because his English isn't the best!!
I'm finding a lot of contradiction really in Dyche recently. On one hand he doesn't say much to younger players when they first come in, like Dwight, as to not give them too much info and confusion, to allow them to play freely. Yet someone can't play because there English isn't up to native-like standard. Give simple, clear instructions, get a translator in for a few months just to make sure communication is clear, and go out and play your natural game. You'd think we'd know that before signing him!!

CharlieinNewMexico wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:15 am

Villas Boas
Lampard
VanBronkhorst and Donadoni both back from China

That’s 4 without even thinking hard.

(Yes, I understand your next statement will be “oh they’d never come to Burnley”)

Ps maybe AVB has unfinished business

I think we'd be too much of a step down for AVB.

Lampard is an interesting suggestion, he did ok at Derby and in his first season at Chelsea, both times with limited money, he just came unstuck after a large spending spree at Chelsea
He certainly have a point to prove and is potentially worth a punt.

Just been looking at GVB and he did well at Feyenoord, league title and a cup in 2 seasons, he may find us a good stepping stone into English football, bound to have a good range of contacts in football due to where he's played etc.

I know nothing about Donadoni's managerial career apart from the fact he's been at a lot of clubs

If your English isn't Oxford-perfect how do you expect to trap, control and pass a football? It can't happen.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:35 am

If your English isn't Oxford-perfect how do you expect to trap, control and pass a football? It can't happen.

Be a bit more worried if Max was colour blind. Maybe someone on our senior staff could learn French if we intend
to recruit from France and the French former colonies, which is a sizeable market for us.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:35 am

If your English isn't Oxford-perfect how do you expect to trap, control and pass a football? It can't happen.

Bielsa has been managing in the PL for several seasons and still can't speak English.

But we reportedly are reluctant to field a multi-million pound signing because of the same issue over language

Don’t want him to go (even if his cup approaches naff me off). Just want imagination, flexibility, bravery. None of which I have seen any evidence he possesses.

I’m not qualified to give tactical observations, but at times it is obvious that a Plan B is needed and Plan A Rebooted (e.g. a like for like change with an inferior player) isn’t going to work. We’ve now had dozens of games last season and this so it is evidence not guesswork. If it’s obvious to us, it should be to Sean.

diamondpocket wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:17 pm

It shouldn't stop you trying though, should it.

If he is so out of reach, then what a poor reputation we have. I'd hope that we can compete with the likes of Brighton on the manager's front even if they can offer more on wages and have a bit more cash available. And if he is so out of reach then it shows what a good job he is doing and what ambition Brighton have in becoming a consistent top 10 side. We look nowhere near that. If we're wanting an evolution in style I'd be looking for someone like him.

You think Potter’s a better manager than Guardiola??

kentonclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:12 am

Bielsa has been managing in the PL for several seasons and still can't speak English.

But we reportedly are reluctant to field a multi-million pound signing because of the same issue over language

Bielsa speaks English

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:54 am

Bielsa speaks English

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.leed ... 495546.amp

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:54 am

Bielsa speaks English

He knows the basics but he’s far from fluent & uses a translator.

CharlieinNewMexico wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:15 am

Villas Boas
Lampard
VanBronkhorst and Donadoni both back from China

That’s 4 without even thinking hard.

(Yes, I understand your next statement will be “oh they’d never come to Burnley”)

Ps maybe AVB has unfinished business

Would it be unkind to suggest that this list does demonstrate that you weren't thinking hard?

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:59 am

He knows the basics but he’s far from fluent & uses a translator.

I was replying to a comment that he can't speak English, not wether he was fluent or not

Strange he's still not fluent after being here 3yrs...

Poch used to use one at Saints to give him more time to formulate his answers, but his English was pretty good.

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:13 pm

I was replying to a comment that he can't speak English, not wether he was fluent or not

I can speak German I can order a pint of warsteiner & a bratwurst so I guess I can speak German

Greenmile wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:43 am

You think Potter’s a better manager than Guardiola??

Yeah, obviously. You don't?

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:27 am

Don’t want him to go (even if his cup approaches naff me off). Just want imagination, flexibility, bravery. None of which I have seen any evidence he possesses.

I’m not qualified to give tactical observations, but at times it is obvious that a Plan B is needed and Plan A Rebooted (e.g. a like for like change with an inferior player) isn’t going to work. We’ve now had dozens of games last season and this so it is evidence not guesswork. If it’s obvious to us, it should be to Sean.

Do you not think it's brave to stick to your beliefs, principles and approaches when there's a group of people that want you to change?

A big risk in asking a manager to change all that, to be more flexible, and be more imaginitive, is that you reduce the thing that differentiates you - a well drilled team, that works hard, and plays to its strengths that neutralises a lot of the opposition in the division, and continues to allow you to deliver results way above those expected with the resources available to you. Things can always be better, but they can also easily be a lot worse. Failure to appreciate what you have, what allows you to do what you do, is likely to lead to the latter, rather than the former.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:16 pm

I can speak German I can order a pint of warsteiner & a bratwurst so I guess I can speak German

Most unlike you to be an idiot

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:19 pm

Most unlike you to be an idiot

He can’t really speak it but because he might know a few key phrases you are saying he can, I think most of us learnt German/french/Spanish at school but most of us would struggle to speak fluently in the language, bielsa gets by with the assistance of translator if that qualifies to you as somebody being capable of speaking a language differently to the mother tongue so be it, I’m not arguing it’s futile.

Paddy1882 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:08 am

I don’t want Dyche out but for the sake of himself and his future career he needs to change and adapt things. The days of clough and Ferguson etc have gone and people certainly from outside the club look at him as old style 4-4-2 manager, That however you dress it up is not desirable to possible employers and it will be less desirable every single season.

Also the situation with Vydra is not a one off, it’s happened before with Bamford, Gibson, defour when he first arrived and he’s mentioned it before about Dwight how he needs to smile more, not everyone is going to be laughing and joking every day on the training pitch some people have different characters and he needs to manage those instead of casting them aside in the case of Vyds because they are different to others in the group… Zaha looks like one of the most miserable buggers on the planet but he’s your best player so you manage his personality not just not pick him.

Cornet can’t speak English so that needs to improv, while he will need to learn the lingo more and settle, that’s not a reason not to pick someone which going off his comments after the Everton game could be a reason not to play him. The way the games going I’m afraid he needs to adapt to it or Burnley FC will be the biggest Job he will have had in management which will be a shame as what’s been achieved in the time he’s been here has been fantastic and he deserves a crack at bigger things.

Agree with all of this.

dandeclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:17 pm

Do you not think it's brave to stick to your beliefs, principles and approaches when there's a group of people that want you to change?

A big risk in asking a manager to change all that, to be more flexible, and be more imaginitive, is that you reduce the thing that differentiates you - a well drilled team, that works hard, and plays to its strengths that neutralises a lot of the opposition in the division, and continues to allow you to deliver results way above those expected with the resources available to you. Things can always be better, but they can also easily be a lot worse. Failure to appreciate what you have, what allows you to do what you do, is likely to lead to the latter, rather than the former.

Are you sure the team is well drilled, or at least is as well drilled as it used to be? Looks all over the place at times.

I Don't want Dyche out at all. I would like to see him try to react more to how a game is unfolding.

But, for the sake of the thread, 6 man short list.

Chris Wilder
Slavan Billic
Steven Gerrard
Steve Cooper
Roy Keane
Neil Critchley

Forgive my ignorance but why has Roy Keane all of a sudden become an interesting managerial presence? Because he said he was still interested in getting back into management in an interview where he's walking his dog in a park?