NewClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:42 pm

There you go, see, the club can’t afford folk like you who would enforce it properly. They’ll pay peanuts so get monkeys

Not a member of the athletic but my point isn’t really about us lot - tech and media savvy, interested enough to talk about this on a message board - it’s the older folks without smartphones, or the single mum who works every hour god sends. They’ve read in the mail that passports are out & they’ve received nothing from the club telling them what to do in the first place, let alone since, but you want them to subscribe to the athletic to get the latest or set the police on them at the turnstiles. You heartless *******

The pandemic started last year.
If people are still planning on attending mass gatherings without checking up on the Covid rules for the venue then it doesn't matter what information is sent to them, what's said on the news, in a paper etc.
May as well stick to their foreheads for all the good it will do.
People complain about being uninformed, but when the information is out there to find who's at fault?


That Athletic article was free to read btw

I’m double jabbed, have been for ages, but I won’t be using an app (something I morally disagree with because its the thin end of a wedge) if anybody asks me I’ll show them my little card filled in at the vaccination centre and I would expect them to accept it given there is no legal requirement for anything further.

After driving across the country to get there it’s safe to say I wouldn’t be happy if turned away.

If government implement plan B that is one thing, but this seems folly by the PL to push this line while in Plan A. As other posters have said it has the potential to be total carnage. Being double jabbed only slows transmission by about 50% so the PL would be better to address those situations like crowded toilets or stairwells. I suspect that would be safer for people.

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:17 pm

I’m double jabbed, have been for ages, but I won’t be using an app (something I morally disagree with because its the thin end of a wedge) if anybody asks me I’ll show them my little card filled in at the vaccination centre and I would expect them to accept it given there is no legal requirement for anything further.

After driving across the country to get there it’s safe to say I wouldn’t be happy if turned away.

If government implement plan B that is one thing, but this seems folly by the PL to push this line while in Plan A. As other posters have said it has the potential to be total carnage. Being double jabbed only slows transmission by about 50% so the PL would be better to address those situations like crowded toilets or stairwells. I suspect that would be safer for people.

The NHS app is just a digital version of your card. Why would you morally disagree with that?

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:17 pm

I’m double jabbed, have been for ages, but I won’t be using an app (something I morally disagree with because its the thin end of a wedge) if anybody asks me I’ll show them my little card filled in at the vaccination centre and I would expect them to accept it given there is no legal requirement for anything further.

After driving across the country to get there it’s safe to say I wouldn’t be happy if turned away.

If government implement plan B that is one thing, but this seems folly by the PL to push this line while in Plan A. As other posters have said it has the potential to be total carnage. Being double jabbed only slows transmission by about 50% so the PL would be better to address those situations like crowded toilets or stairwells. I suspect that would be safer for people.

The little card has never been accepted anywhere as proof of vaccination

Just apply for a letter from the NHS, its easy, and you'll have it with you all the time

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:30 pm

The NHS app is just a digital version of your card. Why would you morally disagree with that?

That's incorrect. The card is not accepted as proof of vaccination and doesn't result in someone's personal information being online.

taio wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:29 am

That's incorrect. The card is not accepted as proof of vaccination and doesn't result in someone's personal information being online.

Fair enough re the card. But surely our vaccination details are already stored electronically, and the app is just a function that allows us to access this and use as a convenient way to show proof of vaccination?

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:09 am

Fair enough re the card. But surely our vaccination details are already stored electronically, and the app is just a function that allows us to access this and use as a convenient way to show proof of vaccination?

Yes of course an app just facilitates already electronically stored data.

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:17 pm

I’m double jabbed, have been for ages, but I won’t be using an app (something I morally disagree with because its the thin end of a wedge) if anybody asks me I’ll show them my little card filled in at the vaccination centre and I would expect them to accept it given there is no legal requirement for anything further.

After driving across the country to get there it’s safe to say I wouldn’t be happy if turned away.

If government implement plan B that is one thing, but this seems folly by the PL to push this line while in Plan A. As other posters have said it has the potential to be total carnage. Being double jabbed only slows transmission by about 50% so the PL would be better to address those situations like crowded toilets or stairwells. I suspect that would be safer for people.

So knowing the card isn't accepted and you need the app if you are asked before entering, you would be unhappy for not getting in if you are asked and you refuse to download the app and use it ? Would you use it when needed to go on holiday ? Is it just at football that you are too cool to use the app ?

taio wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:19 am

Yes of course an app just facilitates already electronically stored data.

That’s where I’m coming from. In effect it isn’t any different than the letter from your doctor (not the card as I originally stated).

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:22 am

So knowing the card isn't accepted and you need the app if you are asked before entering, you would be unhappy for not getting in if you are asked and you refuse to download the app and use it ? Would you use it when needed to go on holiday ? Is it just at football that you are too cool to use the app ?

You can get a letter rather than use the app

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:23 am

That’s where I’m coming from. In effect it isn’t any different than the letter from your doctor (not the card as I originally stated).

Yes the card is totally different

taio wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:26 am

Yes the card is totally different

The app is a digital version of the card, in that it displays your vaccination status. Having the app doesn't result in your personal information being online, because your personal information is already online.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:29 am

The app is a digital version of the card, in that it displays your vaccination status. Having the app doesn't result in your personal information being online, because your personal information is already online.

To be clear the app is not a digital version of the card. It doesn't contain the same information and is not accepted as proof of vaccination. It may mislead others.

taio wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:32 am

To be clear the app is not a digital version of the card. It doesn't contain the same information and is not accepted as proof of vaccination. It may mislead others.

If you say so fella.

The app allows you to download a digital Covid pass, I had one for when I came up incase I was asked.
The app itself isn't the pass.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:15 am

The app allows you to download a digital Covid pass, I had one for when I came up incase I was asked.
The app itself isn't the pass.

The QR codes can be accessed directly from the app, you don't need to download the pass, although you may prefer to if you have concerns about internet access.

The point I was asking Crosspool is why he morally disagrees with using an app, seeing as it is just a means to access digital proof of your vaccination satus.

Yeah I'm not sure why people who already have so much information online about themselves are against an app.

I access HMRC, DVLA, vehicle insurance, work and the NHS (repeat prescriptions) all online.

That's all without the stuff social media knows about me

Surely in the next few weeks/months some will start to say that being double jabbed is no longer enough, and you'll need to have had a booster jab as well.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:50 am

Surely in the next few weeks/months some will start to say that being double jabbed is no longer enough, and you'll need to have had a booster jab as well.

No because the booster isn't available to all. It is being targeted

Grumps wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:22 am

The little card has never been accepted anywhere as proof of vaccination

Just apply for a letter from the NHS, its easy, and you'll have it with you all the time

I’ve been at a show with thousands this week, almost all people showed their card on entry.

I have a flu jab every year
The Spanish flu was a pandemic that eventually downgraded to an endemic (?), we just live with it now and every winter we know thousands are going to die, sometimes it's tens of thousands as it was back in 2015 I think when it was as high as 45k.
The Spanish flu variant is still about, just not as lethal now.

Covid will go the same way eventually

Just downloaded the app, signed up and got my passport. All done in 5 minutes, tops.

Grumps wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:22 am

The little card has never been accepted anywhere as proof of vaccination

Just apply for a letter from the NHS, its easy, and you'll have it with you all the time

Agreed Grumps ... I applied for and got letters sorted for the Mrs and my Brother as neither use a smartphone... (3 days and it arrived in the post for them) neither has had to use it yet (nor me the app on my phone) but we all carry it just in case.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:22 am

The QR codes can be accessed directly from the app, you don't need to download the pass, although you may prefer to if you have concerns about internet access.

The point I was asking Crosspool is why he morally disagrees with using an app, seeing as it is just a means to access digital proof of your vaccination satus.

I take a screenshot of the QR code once a month ... and then I don't need to worry about tinterwebby access

Burnley1989 wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:54 am

I’ve been at a show with thousands this week, almost all people showed their card on entry.

As others have said, it has always been advertised as not being a form of vaccination status, I thought it actually said that on the card. How come thousands had the card with them? Most people I know don't carry it around
Mine didn't have my name on it when they handed it to me, so I wrote my name on it when I got home, I could have put any name on it.

taio wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:23 am

You can get a letter rather than use the app

Yes. I've got both,
There appears to be an anomaly since the hard copy has no final date on it, so (theoretically at least) it lasts "forever", whereas it appears you have to update the digital version.

nil_desperandum wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:11 pm

Yes. I've got both,
There appears to be an anomaly since the hard copy has no final date on it, so (theoretically at least) it lasts "forever", whereas it appears you have to update the digital version.

Yes I have both too. The reason for expiration of the digital version is for the barcode and data privacy

taio wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:14 pm

Yes I have both too. The reason for expiration of the digital version is for the barcode and data privacy

I wonder how many people are aware that you continually have to update the digital version?
That's another source of potential confusion and conflict if people either forget to do it or don't know they have to.

nil_desperandum wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:20 pm

I wonder how many people are aware that you continually have to update the digital version?
That's another source of potential confusion and conflict if people either forget to do it or don't know they have to.

Using the app means it doesn't expire. It's just the downloadable document that expires.

nil_desperandum wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:20 pm

I wonder how many people are aware that you continually have to update the digital version?
That's another source of potential confusion and conflict if people either forget to do it or don't know they have to.

You don't have to update the digital version ... it only expires if you print it off ... that hard copy lasts 28 days (it says so just below the QR code) surely people would read that .

Each time you access the app it updates automatically and if you print a hard copy that lasts 28 days ...

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:29 pm

You don't have to update the digital version ... it only expires if you print it off ... that hard copy lasts 28 days (it says so just below the QR code) surely people would read that .

Each time you access the app it updates automatically and if you print a hard copy that lasts 28 days ...

*30 days not 28 duhhhh

nil_desperandum wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:20 pm

I wonder how many people are aware that you continually have to update the digital version?
That's another source of potential confusion and conflict if people either forget to do it or don't know they have to.

It states at the top of the QR code on the app that it expires one month from when you create it.
It's really easy to see, it's right at the top, next to the users name and D.O.B.

People complain when the gov interfere in our lives too much, but from the way you're going on I'm thinking maybe they need to do it more often

Just for info I rec'd my letter of vaccination status recently.
I'm on immunosuppessants.
I'm told that it could consequently greatly reduce my anti bodies or even wipe them out.
I contracted covid on August 7th, my anti body status may or may not have been a factor, I was quite poorly.
My point being the letter of status doesn't mean an awful lot in terms of the said group of people or whether the virus can be passed on by this group, It is what it is but just thought I'd put it out there, because clearly I won't be the only one.
However it does get me into venues or stadium's should I wish to go. The process of getting the letter for anyone that wishes to do so was quite simple, just go on the government website. Gov.uk and make the phone call.

I'm double jabbed and have had Covid but will not be showing proof of vaccination in any domestic setting. Overseas not a problem - their country their rules.

According to the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee:

- "the Government failed to make a sufficiently strong scientific case for introducing Covid-status certification in the UK"
- "there appears to be no scientific rationale for the places they indicated were under consideration and most likely to be included in that system (nightclubs, large events like football matches"
- "a certificate system would likely place new burdens and costs on industries which are already some of the hardest hit sectors of the UK economy and society"
- "Covid-status certification system would, by its very nature, be discriminatory, and would likely disproportionately discriminate against some people on the basis of race, religion and socio-economic background"
- "We found no justification for introducing a Covid-status certification system that would be sufficient to counter what is likely to be a significant infringement of individual rights".

A system which is discriminatory, costly and un scientific is not something I am willing to support and the way it could develop into other health limitations; alcohol and food consumption, smoking etc is something I do fear.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:00 pm

It states at the top of the QR code on the app that it expires one month from when you create it.
It's really easy to see, it's right at the top, next to the users name and D.O.B.

People complain when the gov interfere in our lives too much, but from the way you're going on I'm thinking maybe they need to do it more often

Not sure that I'm going on.
Point is that many people struggle with digital things. (e.g. I have to do everything for my dad), and a good number don't have mobiles, despite what some on here claim, or they can simply run out of battery.
Taio seems to be the expert on this.
According to him, the digital version updates itself, but if you print it off then it expires - and presumably has to be reprinted every 30 days, so that's not entirely clear.
Having the hard copy avoids this problem, but then there are also the little cards given at vaccination that some people believe (erroneously) provide proof of vaccination.
So personally I can see why many people get confused by all this.
Factor in the govt. statement that vaccine passports aren't required in England, and it's quite easy to see why many people haven't really bothered to read up and check what is legal proof of double vaccination and what isn't or might expire.
Due to some foreign travel, I think that I am pretty well clued up on what is required, but I can well imagine that many people have not really engaged with the issue. Along with many people, I hadn't spotted the announcement of random passport checks at PL matches, but I've 2 lots of proof that I can provide. I'm willing to wager though that there will be people who turn up at PL grounds over the weekends that have not needed one elsewhere, have not heard that you might need one to enter the ground, and could justifiably be pretty upset if they are turned away.
That's been the gist of what I've been trying to say.

I've also been trying to say that we've had this going on for months now since things started reopening and if someone is still turning up at mass gatherings without checking what's needed then that's no one elses fault but theirs, but you're trying to shift the blame onto everyone else and that just doesn't wash for me.

People need to take personal responsibility now more than ever for this sort of stuff, it's being advertised and talked about all over the place, but if people don't trust or believe the gov then check the venue, or get someone to do it for them.

The UK and the Premier League needs to be less flexible. Take China for example... 3 of their astronauts have just returned from a three month stint in space and have been told they have to quarantine for two weeks

claretburns wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:53 am

Apologies if this thread is not allowed but it is to do with football.

The Premier League have announced, despite the government withdrawing the need for COVID passports, that spot checks at stadiums across the country will continue after October 1st with fans needing to show a negative test or prove they have been double vaccinated.

This has been in place since the first game of the season and for the Brighton and Leeds games, I didn't see one person being spot checked at Turf Moor, has anyone else seen this happen yet or been spot checked themselves?

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... ative-test

It's the old TV License detector van ploy!

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:32 pm

I've also been trying to say that we've had this going on for months now since things started reopening and if someone is still turning up at mass gatherings without checking what's needed then that's no one elses fault but theirs, but you're trying to shift the blame onto everyone else and that just doesn't wash for me.

People need to take personal responsibility now more than ever for this sort of stuff, it's being advertised and talked about all over the place, but if people don't trust or believe the gov then check the venue, or get someone to do it for them.

Your last sentence rather proves my point.
The govt. have said that passports are not required, so many people will just go along with that.

Grumps wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:00 pm

As others have said, it has always been advertised as not being a form of vaccination status, I thought it actually said that on the card. How come thousands had the card with them? Most people I know don't carry it around
Mine didn't have my name on it when they handed it to me, so I wrote my name on it when I got home, I could have put any name on it.

I left mine in a football boot after my first, played again and it was ruined, forgot and ruined it, it’s all a load of nonsense anyway mat

Boss Hogg wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:11 pm

This will hardly be enforced and is a waste of time. Either do it properly and provide evidence on entry or don’t bother. This is a token gesture that won’t actually help deal with the problem. I reckon about 1% of fans wear masks to and from seats and in communal areas and I know plenty of double jabbed people who have caught COVID. When the numbers go crazy I won’t be attending but people can make their own judgements. Some don’t give one and some do.

Numbers are pretty crazy already and death rates are running at about 140/day or annualised over 50,000 more than the combined deaths from breast bowel and prostate cancer.

barba wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:25 pm

I'm double jabbed and have had Covid but will not be showing proof of vaccination in any domestic setting. Overseas not a problem - their country their rules.

According to the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee:

- "the Government failed to make a sufficiently strong scientific case for introducing Covid-status certification in the UK"
- "there appears to be no scientific rationale for the places they indicated were under consideration and most likely to be included in that system (nightclubs, large events like football matches"
- "a certificate system would likely place new burdens and costs on industries which are already some of the hardest hit sectors of the UK economy and society"
- "Covid-status certification system would, by its very nature, be discriminatory, and would likely disproportionately discriminate against some people on the basis of race, religion and socio-economic background"
- "We found no justification for introducing a Covid-status certification system that would be sufficient to counter what is likely to be a significant infringement of individual rights".

A system which is discriminatory, costly and un scientific is not something I am willing to support and the way it could develop into other health limitations; alcohol and food consumption, smoking etc is something I do fear.

Nothing wrong with sticking to your principles. The consequences are you could get turned away and rightly so.

Boss Hogg wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:29 am

Nothing wrong with sticking to your principles. The consequences are you could get turned away and rightly so.

They can't turn you away. Have a read of the match day guide the club have released. I will copy in a new post.

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/con ... senal-2021
The club says proof of being double jabbed or negative test is not a condition of match day entry.

Quite a lot of nonsense posted on this thread.

Boss Hogg wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:29 am

Nothing wrong with sticking to your principles. The consequences are you could get turned away and rightly so.

If it's the law to provide your medical information then I won't go.

The comfort some have with authoritarianism

The one thing it does say to bring is photo ID.

There's not a chance I'm bringing my passport to a footy game where alcohol will be consumed.

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:45 am

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/con ... senal-2021
The club says proof of being double jabbed or negative test is not a condition of match day entry.

Quite a lot of nonsense posted on this thread.

What’s the point of doing it then ?

barba wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:46 am

If it's the law to provide your medical information then I won't go.

The comfort some have with authoritarianism

I wonder how people in Russia and China manage to survive let alone the populations of the former eastern bloc countries. If more people did as they were told we’d have far less problems. We live in a very free society and should be thankful for it. In times like these ( I must be thinking if the match !) we need rules.

Boss Hogg wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:07 am

I wonder how people in Russia and China manage to survive let alone the populations of the former eastern bloc countries. If more people did as they were told we’d have far less problems. We live in a very free society and should be thankful for it. In times like these ( I must be thinking if the match !) we need rules.

So you'd be happy for us to live in a society like the Chinese?

Boss Hogg wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:07 am

I wonder how people in Russia and China manage to survive let alone the populations of the former eastern bloc countries. If more people did as they were told we’d have far less problems. We live in a very free society and should be thankful for it. In times like these ( I must be thinking if the match !) we need rules.

Most bizarre comment I’ve seen. Talk about living in a very free society and saying we should be more like China and Russia. Baffling.