Derby - administration

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NewClaret
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Re: Derby - administration

Post by NewClaret » Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:52 pm

Sorry if posted elsewhere, but does this mean MSD Capital have lost their investment?

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by JohnMac » Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:22 pm

Owners have little influence in the top leagues with the amount of power ceded to Agents and Players over the past 30 years.

Mel Morris should have got out years ago. Unless the Club is a smokescreen of course... :shock:

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:27 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:52 pm
Sorry if posted elsewhere, but does this mean MSD Capital have lost their investment?
Dunno tbh, I suspect they'll have something legal written up that means they get preferential treatment, like football clubs and players do when a club goes into administration.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:29 pm

Morris bought 22% of the club in May 2014 after their play-off defeat against QPR. He bought the entire club during the following season.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by NewClaret » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:02 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:29 pm
Morris bought 22% of the club in May 2014 after their play-off defeat against QPR. He bought the entire club during the following season.
Read a report today that he’s ploughed £200m in. Not sure how accurate that is, but imagine having that kind of money in the first place, never mind to lose.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by NewClaret » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:08 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:27 pm
Dunno tbh, I suspect they'll have something legal written up that means they get preferential treatment, like football clubs and players do when a club goes into administration.
I assume their loan is asset backed (like ours) and that any default means they take control of said assets? So the administrators are selling MSD’s asset to get them some cash back whilst all the other creditors can swivel?

I originally assumed this was all just going to be some form of pre-pack admin as part of the ongoing takeover discussions but what I read this morning sounded like they were calling on new parties to show an interest, had 15 expressions of interest over the weekend, of which 3 were serious. Also said that the administrators immediate priority was ensuring this seasons fixtures could be fulfilled so that sounds very much like they are up a creek desperately trying to find a paddle… sure there’s more to it though.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by tiger76 » Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:20 pm

Timeline of how Derby got to this pointhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58641014

What a mess this whole thing is, and why it was ever allowed to get so bad beats me.
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Re: Derby - administration

Post by Dinks » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:13 pm

What's happened to Chester Perry? it would be nice to get his take on this, his posts are always interesting and informative
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Re: Derby - administration

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:44 pm

Bizarrely Boro owner Gibson is taking Derby to court for financial irregularities etc.

Considering this is the bloke who wrote off £100 million of debt Boro owed him so they wouldn't breach the then incoming FFP rules, this is hilarious...

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by aggi » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:14 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:52 pm
Sorry if posted elsewhere, but does this mean MSD Capital have lost their investment?
It was MSD who actually applied to put Derby into administration so it seems very unlikely they would have done that if it would result in them losing their investment.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by NRC » Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:53 pm

I’ve personally come across MSD in a previous period of my life. They had a board seat on the startup I was part of, but no skin in the game. I did. An investor defaulted on a payment (Russian oligarch, via Deutsche Bank - sound familiar to Trump followers?). MSD said they’d cover it, but then they didn’t. I lost more than my coat.

I’m happy for MSD to feel a very small sting on the ass

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by tiger76 » Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:23 pm

And here starts the job losses, despite Steve McClaren stepping down from his role as technical director.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-d ... -58747216

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by IanMcL » Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:43 pm

Hope he owned his umbrella, outright!

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by ecc » Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:42 pm

McClaren: he's earned a wagon-load of money out of football without tremendous results. So great to see his altruism. Give him a knighthood.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by Devils_Advocate » Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:47 am

Some positive news for Derby thanks to a great gesture by Arsenal to defer a due payment from Derby for the transfer of Krystian Bielik. Fair play to Arsenal who show some good will and class and fingers crossed Mr Rooney can pull off the miracle and keep Derby up this season

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:01 am

Empty gesture from Arsenal really, they know they'll get their money regardless due to the football creditors rule.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by claretburns » Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:34 am

NewClaret wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:52 pm
Sorry if posted elsewhere, but does this mean MSD Capital have lost their investment?
Reported that their loan is asset backed by the stadium and training ground.

aggi
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Re: Derby - administration

Post by aggi » Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:18 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:01 am
Empty gesture from Arsenal really, they know they'll get their money regardless due to the football creditors rule.
An interesting point that. I suspect that MSD would get preference over football creditors. Obviously it's likely that whoever buys the club would have the funds to pay off both (or if the club was dissolved then there would be enough to cover it) but it does show a risk with these loans.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by elwaclaret » Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:38 pm

aggi wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:18 am
An interesting point that. I suspect that MSD would get preference over football creditors. Obviously it's likely that whoever buys the club would have the funds to pay off both (or if the club was dissolved then there would be enough to cover it) but it does show a risk with these loans.
All loans come with such risk. The only people that get loans without risk are those that don’t need loans.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by Steddyman » Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:14 pm

Suspect this is another ploy by Morris to wipe out the debt and buy the club back debt free using a third party.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by aggi » Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:59 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:38 pm
All loans come with such risk. The only people that get loans without risk are those that don’t need loans.
Well the risk is higher for football clubs as, if you can't repay the football creditors, you can't be re-admitted to the league.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:35 pm

aggi wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:59 pm
Well the risk is higher for football clubs as, if you can't repay the football creditors, you can't be re-admitted to the league.
That's also why the law was changed recently to make sure that HMRC was also higher up in the payment order. I could never imagine why someone (football authorities or politicians) thought it was right that the tax due from well paid footballers could go unpaid in the event that their club overspent and became insolvent.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by mikeS » Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:16 pm

Always worth remembering- it's the Derby way.
D3DC60B8-0173-488E-8C3E-7E9FBA7E3C85.jpeg
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Re: Derby - administration

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:22 am

https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/ ... 1DlfA&s=19

Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for Derby

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by elwaclaret » Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:34 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:22 am
https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/ ... 1DlfA&s=19

Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for Derby
Agree, but I doubt some of them would treat him any differently to Newcastle fans. Derby had their days in the sun with Clough and around that period… but now anything less is viewed as falling short; they’d be bouncing if they got up…. But like some Burnley fans, give them a couple of years success and they become Billy big balls.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by Billy Balfour » Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:17 pm

At least he won't be able to asset strip it - there aren't any.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:04 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:17 pm
At least he won't be able to asset strip it - there aren't any.
He didn't asset strip Newcastle

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:09 pm

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/ ... 112331.amp

Wycombe have handed Derby's administrators a bill for £6 million, the difference between championship and League 1 TV money.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by bfcjg » Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:13 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:09 pm
https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/ ... 112331.amp

Wycombe have handed Derby's administrators a bill for £6 million, the difference between championship and League 1 TV money.
That's enough to make your hair fall out.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by aggi » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:37 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:09 pm
https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/ ... 112331.amp

Wycombe have handed Derby's administrators a bill for £6 million, the difference between championship and League 1 TV money.
Sounds like a stunt. Can't imagine they'll get any of that. Particularly not with MSD trying to get their cash.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:46 pm

https://twitter.com/reluctantnicko/stat ... 1aJHQ&s=19

Getting closer to a decision on the final points deduction and then the takeover which is waiting the result of that.
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Re: Derby - administration

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:19 am

https://mol.im/a/10263765

The prospective owners are claiming the outstanding tax bill of £29 million is making a deal unlikely and they want HMRC to waive 3/4's of it or risk the club disappearing..

Not sure HMRC will agree to this one.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by ClaretDiver » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:17 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:19 am
https://mol.im/a/10263765

The prospective owners are claiming the outstanding tax bill of £29 million is making a deal unlikely and they want HMRC to waive 3/4's of it or risk the club disappearing..

Not sure HMRC will agree to this one.
Can't see any of that debt being waived at all....the potential new owners are clutching at straws there me thinks!

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by NewClaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:25 pm

Best they can hope for is a very long repayment plan.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by Rowls » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:56 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:04 pm
He didn't asset strip Newcastle
No, although you wouldn't have thought so if you'd listened to the whingeing Geordies.

He bankrolled them and pumped in millions of pounds to keep them afloat.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by IanMcL » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:30 pm

Could be tears...probably not.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by Stayingup » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:17 pm

ClaretDiver wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:17 pm
Can't see any of that debt being waived at all....the potential new owners are clutching at straws there me thinks!
Absolutely. HMRC will want every penny owed to.them.and will charge 10% more and more as the debt goes on.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by Shaggy » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:40 pm

Liquidate them. About time a football club got what they deserved for their gross mismanagement.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by bfcjg » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:42 pm

The saying is the two things you cannot avoid in.life are taxes and death, will they get away with it though ?

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:38 am


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Re: Derby - administration

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:32 pm

https://twitter.com/reluctantnicko/stat ... 2dynA&s=19

EFL have blocked Derby from offering contract extensions or signing more players.
Jagielka was due to extend his contract...

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by basil6345789 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:57 pm

jedi_master wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:07 pm
A year ago they must have known their position if they didn’t get promoted.

It didn’t stop them hiring Philip Cocu, signing that Polish lad for millions along with Jordon Ibe on significant money and, oh, Wayne Rooney!!!

They have reaped what they have sown with this, it’s been coming years. Overspending since 2013 and nothing to show for it.
Leicester got away with it some years ago - look at them now!

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by beddie » Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:03 pm

Mike Ashley will be ready in the wings.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by randomclaret2 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:05 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:32 pm
https://twitter.com/reluctantnicko/stat ... 2dynA&s=19

EFL have blocked Derby from offering contract extensions or signing more players.
Jagielka was due to extend his contract...
Get on the phone Sean ...

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by chekhov » Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:40 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:22 pm
They behaved like Bolton fans for years, loving having their owner continue to poor money into the club to inflate their league position, constantly finding ways to dodge FFP and stick 2 fingers up to the EFL etc.

Now they're weeping and wailing on social media, but they're ignoring their past attitudes and behaviour, just like Bolton fans.
Comments like this make me laugh. It’s as if Burnley fans are somehow superior.
Well I’m sorry folks, we’re not, we’re just like the rest of ‘em.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by tiger76 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:20 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:32 pm
https://twitter.com/reluctantnicko/stat ... 2dynA&s=19

EFL have blocked Derby from offering contract extensions or signing more players.
Jagielka was due to extend his contract...
Surely the perfect time to nab a couple of bargains, is Knight still with them, or has he moved on yet?

Just checked and he's still with them for now, 18 months on his contract, and they need the money ASAP, I'd go in with a bid of 5-7m, and see what response we get, plus his Irish colleague Nathan Collins could hopefully put in a good word or two for us.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by Goalposts » Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:14 pm

chekhov wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:40 pm
Comments like this make me laugh. It’s as if Burnley fans are somehow superior.
Well I’m sorry folks, we’re not, we’re just like the rest of ‘em.
To be fair the club has been run, like a business without gambling on big bets - investment and also the club have improved infrastructure. Prior to ALK completely debt free, so id say were not completely like the rest of them

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by ClaretPete001 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:21 pm

Goalposts wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:14 pm
To be fair the club has been run, like a business without gambling on big bets - investment and also the club have improved infrastructure. Prior to ALK completely debt free, so id say were not completely like the rest of them
Arguably that has been at the expense of investment in the squad to raise the liquidity to facilitate ALKs leveraged buy out.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by chekhov » Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:43 pm

Goalposts wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:14 pm
To be fair the club has been run, like a business without gambling on big bets - investment and also the club have improved infrastructure. Prior to ALK completely debt free, so id say were not completely like the rest of them
I’m talking about the fans. The fans of one club are the same as any other.

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Re: Derby - administration

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:17 am

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