I know we didn't lose yesterday but it's becoming a constant trend that we can't defend a lead at the moment.

So, how do we get back to basics?

For example; do we need an extra body in front of the back four when we have to hold onto what we've got as 4-4-2 simply isn't working during the 2nd half of games.

A bit worrying.

A bit of luck going our way would help.

Beat Norwich! A win will tighten us up; confidence and concentration will return.

Oh, and play Cork instead of Brownhill. We’re a little more open with Brownhill (not a bad thing offensively), but we need our best central midfielder in the starting XI.

Agree with Cork being back in. And as above a win next Saturday hopefully kicks us off on a run.

Carry on. We are blooming hard to beat!

It’s quite simple, Strong jaw

By changing the formation in the latter half of games!
Not bringing on Barnes for one of the strikers and sticking to 442

Our CMs have had over 80% pass accuracy on a couple of occasions this season. We need some composure in the middle of the park, currently giving the ball away far too often in the middle of the park.

Not more of the Cork for Brownhill nonsense please.Josh did his usual closing down and negating Leicester's midfield and breaking up attacks and covering every blade of grass.
He wasnt at fault for the goals that unfortunately was Nick , especially the second.
Yet still people want him dropped , unbelievable !

Change in formation, perhaps.
Better positional discipline?

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:25 pm

Not more of the Cork for Brownhill nonsense please.Josh did his usual closing down and negating Leicester's midfield and breaking up attacks and covering every blade of grass.
He wasnt at fault for the goals that unfortunately was Nick , especially the second.
Yet still people want him dropped , unbelievable !

Josh and Westwood were great yesterday-never gave Leicester a moment. Also our defending was really good yesterday-had we not defended as we did Leicester could have scored 5 or 6.We need to take our chances

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:25 pm

Not more of the Cork for Brownhill nonsense please.Josh did his usual closing down and negating Leicester's midfield and breaking up attacks and covering every blade of grass.
He wasnt at fault for the goals that unfortunately was Nick , especially the second.
Yet still people want him dropped , unbelievable !

What’s unbelievable about wanting our best central midfielder back in the side?

Took loads of abuse last season for daring to suggest that Barnes should be dropped, despite playing well at the time. Sure enough, he was dropped for Vydra and our form picked up.

I like Brownhill and I’m sure he has a very good future with us, but right now, Cork would tighten us up, I’m sure of that.

Brownhill does indeed do as you say, but he also gives possession a lot. That’s a fact. I respect your opinion. All the best.

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:25 pm

Not more of the Cork for Brownhill nonsense please.Josh did his usual closing down and negating Leicester's midfield and breaking up attacks and covering every blade of grass.
He wasnt at fault for the goals that unfortunately was Nick , especially the second.
Yet still people want him dropped , unbelievable !

There's no point in winning the ball if you give it straight back. It puts you in a far worse position.

jdrobbo wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:32 pm

What’s unbelievable about wanting our best central midfielder back in the side?

Took loads of abuse last season for daring to suggest that Barnes should be dropped, despite playing well at the time. Sure enough, he was dropped for Vydra and our form picked up.

I like Brownhill and I’m sure he has a very good future with us, but right now, Cork would tighten us up, I’m sure of that.

Brownhill does indeed do as you say, but he also gives possession a lot. That’s a fact. I respect your opinion. All the best.

Nothing wrong at all about wanting that. Oh for the Cork that played alongside Defour when we beat Chelsea 3-2. That season Cork got an England call up. He is very calm and a good footballer, however there are numerous athletic midfielders in the PL and sadly with age, Jack invariably gets dispossessed, almost bullied, and slow at tracking back. As someone said on here recently, it reminds me of the latter days of David Jones. Sadly getting dispossessed in midfield puts your centre halves under great pressure and we cannot afford that right now. Josh is less of a footballer, but is physical in the challenge, brilliant at dispossessing and does the dirty work, that all teams need in their team

We need to try 352 against the better sides, as soon as on of our full backs goes forward the better teams go in behind us dragging Ben Mee all over the shop.
Would give us an extra big fella up there for set pieces.

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:25 pm

Not more of the Cork for Brownhill nonsense please.Josh did his usual closing down and negating Leicester's midfield and breaking up attacks and covering every blade of grass.
He wasnt at fault for the goals that unfortunately was Nick , especially the second.
Yet still people want him dropped , unbelievable !

Only Burnley fans can be happy by a Cm that runs around a lot.

We must be one of the only teams in the league with CMs that average below 80% pass accuracy.

For every ten passes our CMs make they give away the ball 3 times.

cockneyclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:23 pm

By changing the formation in the latter half of games!
Not bringing on Barnes for one of the strikers and sticking to 442

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it's that

We will never go to three at the back until SD experiments with it in pre-season. The majority of sides in the PL and Championship play this on a regular basis, and are prepared to switch during a game should the opposition warrant it. I think we are disadvantaged by not playing it at times

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:50 pm

Only Burnley fans can be happy by a Cm that runs around a lot.

We must be one of the only teams in the league with CMs that average below 80% pass accuracy.

For every ten passes our CMs make they give away the ball 3 times.

You need to really work on your analysis and distribution of stats. Every stat you use is either totally inaccurate or lacking in any context.

warksclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:00 pm

We will never go to three at the back until SD experiments with it in pre-season. The majority of sides in the PL and Championship play this on a regular basis, and are prepared to switch during a game should the opposition warrant it. I think we are disadvantaged by not playing it at times

Dyche will have to learn about change or get in a mobile defender to play alongside Tarky.

ksrclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:02 pm

You need to really work on your analysis and distribution of stats. Every stat you use is either totally inaccurate or lacking in any context.

Westwood and Brownhill are averaging as Pass accuracy of 76% this season in the league.

We are currently the only team in the premier league where our CMs average less than 80%.

Given that we rarely have the ball, having the lowest pass accuracy is a problem.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:04 pm

Westwood and Brownhill are averaging as Pass accuracy of 76% this season in the league.

We are currently the only team in the premier league where our CMs average less than 80%.

Given that we rarely have the ball, having the lowest pass accuracy is a problem.

Why do you think it is that low, and what do you believe should be done to improve it?

ksrclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:08 pm

Why do you think it is that low, and what do you believe should be done to improve it?

For me there is a number of reasons, however our CMs regularly give the ball away in poor positions under little pressure.

The perfect example was in the 49th min yesterday. Brownhill makes an under hit back pass to Taylor that was intercepted. It then led to 3-4 mins of constant pressure on the back four.

Westwood is currently the only Cm at the club that is good enough for the prem however I also think he is declining. It’s to be expected though at his age and the amount he plays.

I have been saying it for over 12 months now, CM is a must in the next window. Crying out for a player that can retain possession.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:12 pm

For me there is a number of reasons, however our CMs regularly give the ball away in poor positions under little pressure.

The perfect example was in the 49th min yesterday. Brownhill makes an under hit back pass to Taylor that was intercepted. It then led to 3-4 mins of constant pressure on the back four.

Westwood is currently the only Cm at the club that is good enough for the prem however I also think he is declining. It’s to be expected though at his age and the amount he plays.

I have been saying it for over 12 months now, CM is a must in the next window. Crying out for a player that can retain possession.

So play Jack Cork. He keeps possession better than the other two.

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:46 pm

We need to try 352 against the better sides, as soon as on of our full backs goes forward the better teams go in behind us dragging Ben Mee all over the shop.
Would give us an extra big fella up there for set pieces.

Because the 1st time we try it against someone like Citeh or Chelski and we get over-run 5-0 people will whinge

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:52 pm

Because the 1st time we try it against someone like Citeh or Chelski and we get over-run 5-0 people will whinge

We do anyway. But I would rather have an extra defender if we're going to defend for 89 minutes.
Play with wingbacks and we should be fine.

Cornet will make a difference because our transition should be quicker and that will alleviate some of the pressure on the back four

If we set up to play with greater attacking intent then Cork's quality with the ball would support that

There are signs that we are trying to evolve the style

Not inviting teams onto us for the majority of the 90 minutes might help make us more difficult to score against

Try harder not to give the ball away.
We have lost leads and games by gifting the opposition the ball which finds its way into our net, after some slick passing.

Pack the midfield & be stubborn, it’s a delicate balance between scoring & conceding we aren’t conceding that many but we aren’t scoring enough, 1 is more likely to translate into draws meaning a point the other 3 but playing for the 3 it’s likely to concede so you are damned if you do or don’t, we will lose more than we win so play for the draw & anything else above that is a bonus we aren’t geared up to go toe to toe with the firepower this league offers.

score more goals than the opposition

It’s not backs to the wall this early in the season but something has to change in the last 20-30 mins of games.
I would leave the 4-4-2 as it is because it is getting us the vital leads and make better substitutions than we have been currently making. I think there is a bigger role to play for both Jack Cork and Eric Pieters in the final third of games.

Elizabeth wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:36 am

It’s not backs to the wall this early in the season but something has to change in the last 20-30 mins of games.
I would leave the 4-4-2 as it is because it is getting us the vital leads and make better substitutions than we have been currently making. I think there is a bigger role to play for both Jack Cork and Eric Pieters in the final third of games.

Exactly. Either Cork or Pieters (who have both played as ball playing CBs a few times in their careers) could step in front of the back 4 as a shield. They can both pass effectively and help retain possession. Much smarter than a like for like striker in the 75th minute which does nothing.

Getting back to keeping clean sheets will be a big help, easier said than done I know, but that's been the bedrock of our success over several seasons now.

Signs are more encouraging in the last 2 games, we run Arsenal close, and if we'd taken our chances could have got a point, and we matched Leicester for much of the game, and certainly deserved a draw over the 90.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:58 am

Getting back to keeping clean sheets will be a big help, easier said than done I know, but that's been the bedrock of our success over several seasons now.

Signs are more encouraging in the last 2 games, we run Arsenal close, and if we'd taken our chances could have got a point, and we matched Leicester for much of the game, and certainly deserved a draw over the 90.

Surely the best way of doing this is by giving the ball away less. Our midfield alone gave the ball away 35 times against Leicester. Ball retention is key in maintaining clean sheets, because our defence is under less pressure.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:24 am

Surely the best way of doing this is by giving the ball away less. Our midfield alone gave the ball away 35 times against Leicester. Ball retention is key in maintaining clean sheets, because our defence is under less pressure.

But you’re under pressure so you give the ball away more
It’s not brain surgery if we had a 42 year old Zidane we’d play him.

Just non stop Brownhill criticism from you

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:24 am

Surely the best way of doing this is by giving the ball away less. Our midfield alone gave the ball away 35 times against Leicester. Ball retention is key in maintaining clean sheets, because our defence is under less pressure.

I don't disagree with you, if you can control the ball and tempo of the game, it makes it a damned sight harder for the other team, especially if they're chasing the game, and sadly that late Leicester goal was on the cards due to the incessant pressure we were under 2nd half.

Game management is sorely lacking within this team right now, whether that's down to a lack of winning games, and panicking when the finishing line is within sight idk, but being able to keep possession wouldn't half help our back line out that's for sure, 5 in midfield might be a solution, particularly if we're holding a slender lead in the final 20-25 minutes, but SD seems reluctant to move away from his tried and tested 4-4-2.

It's frustrating because we should be sat on far more than the 2 points we have gained, and I only hope we don't look back with regret in May at these squandered points.

CharlieinNewMexico wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:36 am

But you’re under pressure so you give the ball away more
It’s not brain surgery if we had a 42 year old Zidane we’d play him.

Just non stop Brownhill criticism from you

I am not even targeting Brownhill with this post. It’s the midfield as a whole. You can’t give the ball away that much and expect to keep clean sheets.

Gudmundsson touched the ball 8 times on Saturday. He gave the ball away 4 times (usually in our own half). All that does is apply pressure on the defence.

Cork looks set to be another one of those players who improves whilst out of the team.

SDs substitutions have screwed us in every game bar Liverpool and Arsenal.
Fans have been calling it for weeks, yet still he refuses to see it. I'm a big fan of Ash, but replacing Vydra for him was the wrong shout, again.

Incorrect tactical decisions in the latter stages of the game. It goes without saying that when you're leading and closing out a game, removing a forward and bringing on an extra midfielder tends to make you more solid.

Papabendi wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:52 am

Cork looks set to be another one of those players who improves whilst out of the team.

I seem to recall quite a few calling for Jack to be replaced because he was a, too old b, too slow and c, because he was Jack Cork

In the words of a Chas & Dave song (have changed a word or two to protect the innocent) "There ain't no pleasing some of you"

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:18 am

I seem to recall quite a few calling for Jack to be replaced because he was a, too old b, too slow and c, because he was Jack Cork

In the words of a Chas & Dave song (have changed a word or two to protect the innocent) "There ain't no pleasing some of you"

Probably nothing much as changed from that perspective from the “few” but we are where we are & the fact that we didn’t sign a midfielder leaves people with no option to give people a go there aren’t keen on it’s certainly not optional it’s him or quite frankly nothing.