Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

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HuncoatClaret
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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by HuncoatClaret » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:02 pm

I'm certain on one thing, Brownhill has to be stopped from taking free kicks from just outside the opposition's box.
He has to be braver on the ball and Infront of goal, he's had some glorious chances in his 49 games.
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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Elizabeth » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:29 pm

Two uninspiring players from a fan’s point of view but good at following the manager’s instructions.
Until Brownhill gives us a clue he has anything to offer going forward , Hendrick has the edge if comparing the two players .

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by tiger76 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:36 pm

ClaretLoup wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:03 am
One difference is that Jeff used to chip in with 2/3 goals per season. He scored some crackers as well e.g. at home to Bournemouth and away to Chelsea.
True! and although Jeff had his faults he did offer us the odd goal from midfield, and for all the talk of our strikers being shot shy,, our midfield don't have a goal to their name in the league yet, unless Cornet's wonderful volley counts as being by a midfielder, now this might be due to the roles being asked of them, but it's not a great stat.

However as others have alluded too, Brownhill has the potential to improve his overall game, nobody doubts his energy and tenacity, but he needs to work on his distribution, because opponents will target him unless he massively bucks up in this area.

And I must admit I thought JB would chip in with a goal or two, he scored a decent amount for Bristol City, albeit in the Championship, so he can finish, he's just not yet shown those qualities in a Burnley shirt.

That said Brownhill has been one of our better performers so far, and he's clearly valued by SD for all the dirty work he does, which can often go unseen by many fans, and every team needs someone in this mould, so in that sense Josh is a vital cog in the Burnley machine.

And it's telling that while Josh Brownhill is a Burnley regular, Jeff Hendrick has barely featured for Newcastle despite their own poor start.

Purely down to age I have to give Brownhill the edge, his career is still on an upward trajectory, well Hendrick's appears to be on the wane.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Elizabeth » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:40 pm

Josh Brownhill is a part of a Burnley team that can’t hold a lead from the 60th minute onwards , hardly a machine tiger ?

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by tiger76 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:42 pm

Elizabeth wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:40 pm
Josh Brownhill is a part of a Burnley team that can’t hold a lead from the 60th minute onwards , hardly a machine tiger ?
I never said it was a smoothly running machine did I. :)

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Elizabeth » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:45 pm

True , more like a Grand Prix team that consistently retires from races towards the end

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:46 pm

Elizabeth wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:40 pm
Josh Brownhill is a part of a Burnley team that can’t hold a lead from the 60th minute onwards , hardly a machine tiger ?
This is exactly my point, For all his of supposed amazing defensive work we are currently on our worst defensive run in the Dyche era with him in the team.

In my opinion he is a grafter and that’s about it. If we are looking at developing a player over a number of years surely it would have been better to keep Benson?

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Elizabeth » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:47 pm

He’s better than Benson will ever be in my opinion

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:51 pm

Elizabeth wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:47 pm
He’s better than Benson will ever be in my opinion
Potentially but I think there both a similar level. Both should really be playing championship level. Brownhill top end championship and Benson middle to lower.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:51 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:46 pm
This is exactly my point, For all his of supposed amazing defensive work we are currently on our worst defensive run in the Dyche era with him in the team.

In my opinion he is a grafter and that’s about it. If we are looking at developing a player over a number of years surely it would have been better to keep Benson?
Why? when you have Dale Stephens :D

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:53 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:51 pm
Why? when you have Dale Stephens :D
Stephens gets a hard time, hopefully he comes back fully fit and stakes a claim. We are crying out for a bit of bite in midfield.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Elizabeth » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:55 pm

I personally have some time for Brownhill because I think there are more established PL players in the team who should be doing more. I just think he’s a little one dimensional and would be surprised but delighted if he developed into a good PL player.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:55 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:53 pm
Stephens gets a hard time, hopefully he comes back fully fit and stakes a claim. We are crying out for a bit of bite in midfield.
Actually "bite" is the one thing Brownhill has guaranteed so far.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:59 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:55 pm
Actually "bite" is the one thing Brownhill has guaranteed so far.
I don’t agree, Westwood and Brownhill average 1 tackle a game each.

It would be interesting to see how a fully fit Stephens fit into our starting eleven. At least we know he can get involved with attack, plus at a little steel to the middle of the park.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:05 pm

Brownhill has made 9 tackles in the PL this season in 6 appearances.
Westwood has made 5 in his 5 appearances.

Looking at the rest of their defensive stats, Brownhill's are better than Westwood's.

Offensively Westwood's are better, so that would indicate Brownhill is doing the majority of the defensive work, then getting rid of the ball to other more offensive players.

Probably won't please some but that may explain things.
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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Elizabeth » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:09 pm

It does for me, now need an explanation why Brownhill is allowed anywhere near dangerous free kicks just outside the box .

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:13 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:59 pm
I don’t agree, Westwood and Brownhill average 1 tackle a game each.

It would be interesting to see how a fully fit Stephens fit into our starting eleven. At least we know he can get involved with attack, plus at a little steel to the middle of the park.
I think you may need a time machine for that :D

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Elizabeth » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:16 pm

I hope Stephens comes back looking a different player, effectively a resurrection if he does.
Will remove from my memory my image of a hippy out for a stroll on the beach

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:24 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:05 pm
Brownhill has made 9 tackles in the PL this season in 6 appearances.
Westwood has made 5 in his 5 appearances.

Looking at the rest of their defensive stats, Brownhill's are better than Westwood's.

Offensively Westwood's are better, so that would indicate Brownhill is doing the majority of the defensive work, then getting rid of the ball to other more offensive players.

Probably won't please some but that may explain things.
Interesting.
But it doesn't give any indication of the importance of the tackles made, or where they are made on the pitch.
Stats are funny.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by claretcarrot93 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:24 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:59 pm
I don’t agree, Westwood and Brownhill average 1 tackle a game each.

It would be interesting to see how a fully fit Stephens fit into our starting eleven. At least we know he can get involved with attack, plus at a little steel to the middle of the park.
You have a weird obsession with not liking Brownhill

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by AlargeClaret » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:31 pm

It’s like comparing being burnt to death or tortured to death

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:38 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:24 pm
Interesting.
But it doesn't give any indication of the importance of the tackles made, or where they are made on the pitch.
Stats are funny.
https://one-versus-one.com/en/players/j ... #go-to-bar

This is an interesting site to play around with, but I'm not sure how accurate it is when compared to the official PL stats.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Iloveyoubrady » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:43 pm

Elizabeth wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:09 pm
It does for me, now need an explanation why Brownhill is allowed anywhere near dangerous free kicks just outside the box .

You really think they don’t practice these and see who is best? You think brownhill turns up and says - I’m having it?

Brownhill is clearly the best right footed free kick taker so surprise surprise, he takes them. His efforts so far haven’t been bad either - don’t see why you are so keen to point that out.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Elizabeth » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:49 pm

I’m sure Brownhill practices his shooting in training as well but it doesn’t stop it being woeful on match day.
I post what I see. It’s up to the player to prove me wrong but I’d rather someone else with a better shooting right foot take free kicks in future
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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by AfloatinClaret » Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:07 am

elwaclaret wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:57 pm
Dean Marney was a scapegoat himself until injury robbed us of him, then many finally realised what he actually did in the team. I suspect Brownhill will be much the same.
As indeed it seems Jeff Hendrick is now? It would be interesting (but interesting enough for me to be arsed to do it) to compare which of the usernames on this thread who're pitching in favour of JH over JB can also be found on those historic threads giving JH dogs abuse on here before he left for Newcastle.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by superdimitri » Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:07 am

Doesn't go missing in games and for that alone he's better.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by HunterST_BFC » Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:19 am

Re Brownhill
I wish he'd shoot more.

So many times he could - but does not, yet he has a cracking shot - so what if some end up in the stands.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:03 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:51 pm
Potentially but I think there both a similar level. Both should really be playing championship level. Brownhill top end championship and Benson middle to lower.
Don't you get bored ? You non stop post negative nonsense and seem to get a semi given any chance to whinge about Brownhill. Everybody on here knows about your bitter agenda (the fact you gave him a 5 for Saturday tells anyone silly enough to read your guff everything) you don't like him, I think he snubbed you either on twitter or for a photo and have never really got over it but you sound like a 12 yr old dumped by his first girlfriend. You get no joy at all from the club and even lazily said it might be doing harm to your mental health, so why not give up on your tv hobby club and watch a side that brings your happiness.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:05 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:03 am
Don't you get bored ? You non stop post negative nonsense and seem to get a semi given any chance to whinge about Brownhill. Everybody on here knows about your bitter agenda (the fact you gave him a 5 for Saturday tells anyone silly enough to read your guff everything) you don't like him, I think he snubbed you either on twitter or for a photo and have never really got over it but you sound like a 12 yr old dumped by his first girlfriend. You get no joy at all from the club and even lazily said it might be doing harm to your mental health, so why not give up on your tv hobby club and watch a side that brings your happiness.
Not sure why your so bothered about my opinion.

I have him a 5 because he gave the ball away more than any other midfielder on the pitch (10 times). Created zero chances and made only 1 key pass in the entire game.

I don’t see how anyone can justify a higher mark.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Iloveyoubrady » Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:18 am

Elizabeth wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:49 pm
I’m sure Brownhill practices his shooting in training as well but it doesn’t stop it being woeful on match day.
I post what I see. It’s up to the player to prove me wrong but I’d rather someone else with a better shooting right foot take free kicks in future
Like who?!

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:03 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:05 am
Not sure why your so bothered about my opinion.

I have him a 5 because he gave the ball away more than any other midfielder on the pitch (10 times). Created zero chances and made only 1 key pass in the entire game.

I don’t see how anyone can justify a higher mark.
Can you provide the stats to show how much he gave it away?

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:05 pm

Screenshot_20210928-120440.png
Screenshot_20210928-120440.png (187.56 KiB) Viewed 2111 times
Nevermind, found it myself.

9 incomplete passes Vs 26 successful ones, that's not bad when you look at it like that.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:31 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:05 pm
Screenshot_20210928-120440.png

Nevermind, found it myself.

9 incomplete passes Vs 26 successful ones, that's not bad when you look at it like that.
Who scored is showing 25 completed passes and 10 Incompleted

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:07 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:31 pm
Who scored is showing 25 completed passes and 10 Incompleted
Either way he's making 2.5 more good than bad passes, which we should appreciate.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:13 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:07 pm
Either way he's making 2.5 more good than bad passes, which we should appreciate.
I think you would struggle to find any other starting CM in the league with stats as low as that. I have had a quick look and it’s difficult to find a Cm that averages less than 4 good passes for every bad one.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:15 pm

Hard to think of a duller way to watch football than reading stats

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by tiger76 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:19 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:07 pm
Either way he's making 2.5 more good than bad passes, which we should appreciate.
Brownhill could bag a HT on Saturday and Newcastleclaret would still find fault with him, TBH this vendetta is becoming tedious.

Is Brownhill perfect? no of course he isn't, otherwise he wouldn't be playing for us, but clearly Bielsa and Moyes see something in him, hence why both Leeds and West Ham have been linked to him, so I think I'll value their judgments over a poster on here who for whatever reason constantly berates Josh, despite him being one of our better players in the early weeks of the season.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:37 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:13 pm
I think you would struggle to find any other starting CM in the league with stats as low as that. I have had a quick look and it’s difficult to find a Cm that averages less than 4 good passes for every bad one.
He's made more passes this season than Conor Gallagher though...both are starters.

What exactly are you wanting to see from Brownhill?
I think you're the issue more than he is.

He was a cheap player by PL standards, but I suspect you're looking from the other end as expensive for Burnley which is the wrong way to look at it in my opinion.

He does well for passing, interceptions, dispossessing other players, tackles etc.

He's doing the job of water carrier, every team has one, they get the ball back and pass it to others who can do more with it - think Deschamps or Dunga for former great players in that role or Kante for someone more modern.

Are you unhappy with him doing that job to a reasonable standard?
Are you expecting him to be more of a Mount, Fernandes or Gallagher type player?

Once we know what YOU want from him then we can discuss it, so you define the parameters from now on if you can.


Also, on average, players touch the ball during a game for a few mins in total across the 90.
If he's doing more good passes than bad at those numbers per game then that's definitely a good thing, especially as we generally have lower possession %'s each game, it was just 32% against Leicester for example, just 286 passes in total.
I don't think he's made a mistake that's led to a goal yet either.
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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:40 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:19 pm
Brownhill could bag a HT on Saturday and Newcastleclaret would still find fault with him, TBH this vendetta is becoming tedious.

Is Brownhill perfect? no of course he isn't, otherwise he wouldn't be playing for us, but clearly Bielsa and Moyes see something in him, hence why both Leeds and West Ham have been linked to him, so I think I'll value their judgments over a poster on here who for whatever reason constantly berates Josh, despite him being one of our better players in the early weeks of the season.
If Leeds or West Ham wanted him. He would be there.

It’s paper rumours nothing else.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:45 pm

And to think cry arse claims he has no agenda :D

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:49 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:37 pm
He's made more passes this season than Conor Gallagher though...both are starters.

What exactly are you wanting to see from Brownhill?
I think you're the issue more than he is.

He was a cheap player by PL standards, but I suspect you're looking from the other end as expensive for Burnley which is the wrong way to look at it in my opinion.

He does well for passing, interceptions, dispossessing other players, tackles etc.

He's doing the job of water carrier, every team has one, they get the ball back and pass it to others who can do more with it - think Deschamps or Dunga for former great players in that role or Kante for someone more modern.

Are you unhappy with him doing that job to a reasonable standard?
Are you expecting him to be more of a Mount, Fernandes or Gallagher type player?

Once we know what YOU want from him then we can discuss it, so you define the parameters from now on if you can.


Also, on average, players touch the ball during a game for a few mins in total across the 90.
If he's doing more good passes than bad at those numbers per game then that's definitely a good thing, especially as we generally have lower possession %'s each game, it was just 32% against Leicester for example, just 286 passes in total.
I don't think he's made a mistake that's led to a goal yet either.
Surely you look at it relative though? He cost a lot for Burnley.

I want him to produce similar to what the CMs before him did. Cork of two years ago, Westwood now, Barton, Defour or even Dean Marney. All of them are producing much more for the team.

One thing I will say about Brownhill is, I think he would be hell of a lot more effective in a different set up. A midfield three could arguably work to his strengths. I am sure that is something Dyche is trying to work on.

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:57 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:49 pm
Surely you look at it relative though? He cost a lot for Burnley.

I want him to produce similar to what the CMs before him did. Cork of two years ago, Westwood now, Barton, Defour or even Dean Marney. All of them are producing much more for the team.

One thing I will say about Brownhill is, I think he would be hell of a lot more effective in a different set up. A midfield three could arguably work to his strengths. I am sure that is something Dyche is trying to work on.
For a starting PL CM he's cheap.

He's in his first season as a starting CM for us, he's going to grow into that role and he has been already.

Marney was here for a number of years, but I'm pretty sure he was initially a marmite player when we signed him.

Barton - older and more experienced, more quality.
Defour - title winner in 2 countries, international for Belgium and a hell of a lot better player than I suspect Brownhill will ever be.

Westwood - over 100 PL appearances for Villa before we signed him, also wasn't rated very highly when we signed him for £5 million I think it was.
He had to work hard and prove his worth to the fans, but now he's integral.

You don't appear to be willing to give Brownhill the same time to earn your approval...

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Re: Is Brownhill better than Hendrick?

Post by Elizabeth » Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:30 pm

Iloveyoubrady wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:18 am
Like who?!
If we have nobody else to take free kicks instead of Brownhill we will have to watch more going tamely over the bar I suppose

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