Shareholders' letter

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dibraidio
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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by dibraidio » Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:05 pm

Another interesting section from the letter about their plans for the club:
c. Developing the Burnley F.C. brand - VS has identified a number of key areas for long-term growth, including: (i) investment in the Burnley Football Academy and Burnley F.C Women, (ii) broadening the club’s digital and commercial strategies to target emerging markets, and (iii) investing in facilities development (particularly focussing on improving the fan experience at Turf Moor).

d. Capital Expenditure Projects - VS has also proposed significant investment in key capital infrastructure projects. This includes investment in facilities at Turf Moor and at the Burnley Football Academy, establishing an eSports academy and investment in facilities for Burnley F.C Women.
I picked those two from the list which included, coaching, data analytics and recruitment because I think it's interesting how limited their brand development plan is and I really don't see an eSports academy as a top priority Capital Expenditure project.

Rileybobs
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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Rileybobs » Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:21 pm

I presume our minority shareholders who don’t sit on the board aren’t entitled to receive dividends under their current agreement?

aggi
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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by aggi » Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:30 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:21 pm
I presume our minority shareholders who don’t sit on the board aren’t entitled to receive dividends under their current agreement?
All shares are equal in terms of voting rights, dividends, etc

The club hasn't paid dividends to anyone for many years though.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Rileybobs » Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:32 pm

aggi wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:30 pm
All shares are equal in terms of voting rights, dividends, etc

The club hasn't paid dividends to anyone for many years though.
Interesting. Could the new majority shareholders be looking to change that tradition in the near future?

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by NewClaret » Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:01 pm

Sean Dyche's Watch wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:20 pm
I bet the major shareholders ALK bought out weren't offered 50% cash and 50% credit with the club, so why should the minor shareholders be treated differently?
You may however find that the payment for their shares was spread over many instalments, or conditions were attached in respect to future performance of the business - two factors not associated with the purchase of these shares.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by NewClaret » Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:03 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:32 pm
Interesting. Could the new majority shareholders be looking to change that tradition in the near future?
That’s a good point.

Or they’re looking to significantly invest and they want to buy the shares prior to that investment?

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:24 am

aggi wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:30 pm
All shares are equal in terms of voting rights, dividends, etc

The club hasn't paid dividends to anyone for many years though.
The last dividend paid was in 1980, the last financial year with Bob Lord as chairman.

Peter Loo
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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Peter Loo » Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:05 am

Burnley FC owned by an American outfit offers to buy back shareholders shares.

Manchester United owned by an American Family offers to sell some of it's shares.

Burnley are a private company.

Man Utd are listed on the New York Stock Exchange.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58811651

More questions then answers as usual I suspect, the timing of both clubs intentions being one.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:23 am

Does someone have a link to the most up to date list of shareholders that they can post?

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:49 am

Rileybobs wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:32 pm
Interesting. Could the new majority shareholders be looking to change that tradition in the near future?
That was my first thought.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by aggi » Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:59 am

Burnley Ace wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:23 am
Does someone have a link to the most up to date list of shareholders that they can post?
The latest confirmation statement is here
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history
It doesn't reflect the new owners.

This is a spreadsheet version I did from the year before. It's pretty much the same but there are a few differences (you can actually search it though)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
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aggi
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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by aggi » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:03 am

Rileybobs wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:32 pm
Interesting. Could the new majority shareholders be looking to change that tradition in the near future?
Could be. Although my suspicion is that we'll see management fees first.

Although given how little we know about the ultimate owners you can't really tell which is most tax efficient.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:05 am

Burnley Ace wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:23 am
Does someone have a link to the most up to date list of shareholders that they can post?
The most recent Confirmation Statement, including "Full details of Shareholders", dated Dec 2020 is accessible (free) on Companies House.

BURNLEY FC HOLDINGS LIMITED, Company number 08335231.

Full details of Shareholders shows shareholders names and how many shares held in that name. (It doesn't include shareholder's address or other contact details).

There's over 100 pages.

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

If the link doesn't work for you searching by company name, company number or name of director will take you there.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:13 am

Peter Loo wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:05 am
Burnley FC owned by an American outfit offers to buy back shareholders shares.

Manchester United owned by an American Family offers to sell some of it's shares.

Burnley are a private company.

Man Utd are listed on the New York Stock Exchange.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58811651

More questions then answers as usual I suspect, the timing of both clubs intentions being one.
Hi Peter, BFC is not offering to buy back shareholders shares. The shareholders of 84% of Burnley FC Holdings Limited - have made an offer to the 6% of small shareholders to buy some/all of those shares.

Totally separate event from whatever Manchester United and the Glazers are doing.

UTC

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Peter Loo » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:27 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:13 am
Hi Peter, BFC is not offering to buy back shareholders shares. The shareholders of 84% of Burnley FC Holdings Limited - have made an offer to the 6% of small shareholders to buy some/all of those shares.

Totally separate event from whatever Manchester United and the Glazers are doing.

UTC
Thanks for the correction Paul but I find the timing and the American connection interesting .. maybe a coincidence or not.

As I say more questions then answers.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by 9thMay1987 » Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:40 am

Please could someone offer some advise.

I and my wife currently have 2 OAP season tickets in the BL stand.

If I sell my shares (as seems likely) I will have £4.25K of debit placed against my seasons card.

My questions are:
1. Can I place my wife's future season ticket against this card?
2. Can I further add other "family and friends" season ticket costs against card?

If not so can anyone offer advise for usage.

Thankyou.
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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:00 am

9thMay1987 wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:40 am
Please could someone offer some advise.

I and my wife currently have 2 OAP season tickets in the BL stand.

If I sell my shares (as seems likely) I will have £4.25K of debit placed against my seasons card.

My questions are:
1. Can I place my wife's future season ticket against this card?
2. Can I further add other "family and friends" season ticket costs against card?

If not so can anyone offer advise for usage.

Thankyou.
Early indications are you can spend it on anything within the club with no expiry date. The longer you take to spend it is better for cash flow.

But as always check with the club before selling.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Hipper » Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:04 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:00 am
Early indications are you can spend it on anything within the club with no expiry date. The longer you take to spend it is better for cash flow.

But as always check with the club before selling.
'The longer you take to spend it is better for cash flow'..... and worse regarding inflation which in the real world anyway looks like going up.

This idea of having to accept half as a credit to be spent at BFC seems very restrictive to me. For some it seems a bit like, for example, British Petroleum doing something similar and saying you could spend your credit only on petrol at their garages yet you don't run a car.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Mala591 » Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:06 am

The offer per share is ‘£849.50 in cash and a credit in the amount of £849.50 that may be spent with the Club or in the Club shop’.

Many shareholders need to know how long the credit will be useable/active for before making their decision.

1 year, 5 years, 10 years?

These details are important and need to be clarified by Mr Pace.
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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by claretandy » Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:07 am

Mala591 wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:06 am
The offer per share is ‘£849.50 in cash and a credit in the amount of £849.50 that may be spent with the Club or in the Club shop’.

Many shareholders need to know how long the credit will be useable/active for before making their decision.

1 year, 5 years, 10 years?

These details are important and need to be clarified by Mr Pace.
He's already said that there is no expiry date.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Mala591 » Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:12 am

claretandy wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:07 am
He's already said that there is no expiry date.
If so then this important detail needs to be ‘put in writing’ by Mr Pace in case of future ‘misunderstandings’.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:26 am

The confirmation statement Paul has linked above is interesting because it does break everything down neatly (e.g. Mike Garlick’s “Clarets Go Large” holding of 34,959 shares.

Interesting but not necessarily crucial. I’ve been reassured by what I heard from Alan Pace and about the ability to trade on that separate platform at a later date. A lot of trust is being placed on ALK, and no doubt Alan is a master salesman with a speel like Del Boy Trotter, but he seems to have the right intentions.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Rodleydave » Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:20 pm

I looked at the list of shareholders and for the sake of easy adding up saw someone who has 100 shares.
With the way this deal is structured the owners will hang on to app 85,000£ of that person's money.
Someone who knows more than me asked about the legality of this, talking about escrow accounts, Bare Trusts and fiduciary responsibility.
Someone with 200 shares they keep £170,000... and so on.
There are a couple of people with 400+
The money the club then keeps then becomes silly money inasmuch as how do you spend £380,000 at the club with credit vouchers.
And what happens to it when ALK leave?
The owners are effectively getting these shares at half price.
What are their motives? Paying themselves dividends when most of the shares have been hoovered up?
Easier to sell the club on?
If you have just a couple of shares it's maybe a no brainer and I'd sell.
If I had 400 I'd be thinking something's going on here... but what?

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Billy Balfour » Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:26 pm

Before this announcement, the shares were worthless. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:40 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:26 pm
Before this announcement, the shares were worthless. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
The shares were highly illiquid (hard to trade), not worthless - that’s a key difference. Sounds like semantics but it isn’t.

The value of the shares is now apparent - the key decision is whether illiquidity will return and prevent that value being released.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:41 pm

Rodleydave wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:20 pm
I looked at the list of shareholders and for the sake of easy adding up saw someone who has 100 shares.
With the way this deal is structured the owners will hang on to app 85,000£ of that person's money.
Someone who knows more than me asked about the legality of this, talking about escrow accounts, Bare Trusts and fiduciary responsibility.
Someone with 200 shares they keep £170,000... and so on.
There are a couple of people with 400+
The money the club then keeps then becomes silly money inasmuch as how do you spend £380,000 at the club with credit vouchers.
And what happens to it when ALK leave?
The owners are effectively getting these shares at half price.
What are their motives? Paying themselves dividends when most of the shares have been hoovered up?
Easier to sell the club on?
If you have just a couple of shares it's maybe a no brainer and I'd sell.
If I had 400 I'd be thinking something's going on here... but what?
It may be that there is a separate deal for shareholders above a certain threshold. Or maybe it’s exactly the same deal as Garlick got? Anyone seen him down the club shop trying to buy hundreds of thousands of shirts? Maybe that’s what happened to the stock of third kits! :o
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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Herts Clarets » Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:44 pm

Maybe they are making a different offer to anyone with more than a few shares? If you had 200, surely they dont expect you to take a £170k credit with the club?

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Billy Balfour » Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:47 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:40 pm
The value of the shares is now apparent
There's one single entity willing to make an offer. I don't see any others and there won't be, hence my 'don't look a gift horse in the mouth' comment.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Rileybobs » Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:48 pm

Rodleydave wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:20 pm
I looked at the list of shareholders and for the sake of easy adding up saw someone who has 100 shares.
With the way this deal is structured the owners will hang on to app 85,000£ of that person's money.
Someone who knows more than me asked about the legality of this, talking about escrow accounts, Bare Trusts and fiduciary responsibility.
Someone with 200 shares they keep £170,000... and so on.
There are a couple of people with 400+
The money the club then keeps then becomes silly money inasmuch as how do you spend £380,000 at the club with credit vouchers.
And what happens to it when ALK leave?
The owners are effectively getting these shares at half price.
What are their motives? Paying themselves dividends when most of the shares have been hoovered up?
Easier to sell the club on?
If you have just a couple of shares it's maybe a no brainer and I'd sell.
If I had 400 I'd be thinking something's going on here... but what?
Do we know if people holding a significant number of shares have been given that offer, or any offer at all for that matter?

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Herts Clarets » Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:36 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:48 pm
Do we know if people holding a significant number of shares have been given that offer, or any offer at all for that matter?
I have spoken to 2 people who have a reasonable number of shares and they confirmed they have had the same offer.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:19 pm

Back in Jan 2018 there was a thread by Spijed “How can I sell my BFC shares?” Hoping the club would buy them back for the £200 he paid!! Hope he hung onto them!

I bought a number back in 95 for £55 each, never thought I’d be in a position to sell them nor have to think about how to spend so much club credit.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by the_magic_rat » Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:12 pm

A slightly different subject but involving BFC shares that might be impacted by the latest communication on share purchases.

I wrote to the Club a few months back enquiring on behalf of a relative regarding the transfer of shares in BFC but never received a reply.

Can anybody help with a clarification of the Club's current policy on share transfers and suggest who I might contact with regard to this? I wrote previously to Susan Crowther, who appears to be the contact person regarding the subject of shares.

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:13 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:26 am
The confirmation statement Paul has linked above is interesting because it does break everything down neatly (e.g. Mike Garlick’s “Clarets Go Large” holding of 34,959 shares.

Interesting but not necessarily crucial. I’ve been reassured by what I heard from Alan Pace and about the ability to trade on that separate platform at a later date. A lot of trust is being placed on ALK, and no doubt Alan is a master salesman with a speel like Del Boy Trotter, but he seems to have the right intentions.
Don't forget that the shareholder list is as at Dec'20. The club hasn't been required to file an updated list after the purchase of shares by ALK. Amongst other things, it may be that some of the "larger" shareholdings on the list were connected with the directors who sold their shares and so some of these may also have been transferred to ALK at that time.

I'd expect the next Confirmation Statement to be due Dec'21, but don't hold me to it,

UTC

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:19 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:48 pm
Do we know if people holding a significant number of shares have been given that offer, or any offer at all for that matter?
Yes they have.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:19 pm

the_magic_rat wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:12 pm
A slightly different subject but involving BFC shares that might be impacted by the latest communication on share purchases.

I wrote to the Club a few months back enquiring on behalf of a relative regarding the transfer of shares in BFC but never received a reply.

Can anybody help with a clarification of the Club's current policy on share transfers and suggest who I might contact with regard to this? I wrote previously to Susan Crowther, who appears to be the contact person regarding the subject of shares.

Thanks in advance.
I'd address a letter about shares to the Company Secretary, then you don't need to know the name of whoever now holds that post.

No harm, in my mind that you include a copy of your earlier letter. It may be that the previous letter "went astray" for some reason, but letters to the Company Secretary are unlikely to go unanswered.

It may be that the named shareholder is the one who should send the letter - just in case GDPR rules prevent the club responding to someone who isn't the shareholder.
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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:22 pm

the_magic_rat wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:12 pm
A slightly different subject but involving BFC shares that might be impacted by the latest communication on share purchases.

I wrote to the Club a few months back enquiring on behalf of a relative regarding the transfer of shares in BFC but never received a reply.

Can anybody help with a clarification of the Club's current policy on share transfers and suggest who I might contact with regard to this? I wrote previously to Susan Crowther, who appears to be the contact person regarding the subject of shares.

Thanks in advance.
One of the problems has been that shares can only be transferred with board permission. I sought details for a friend and learned that they’d outsourced the process. This was in 2020 prior to the takeover.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Culmclaret » Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:22 pm

Holding a reasonable number of shares I will not be selling. I don’t need the money and frankly they can f**k off. The offer is a shabby one in that I could never redeem the ‘tokens’ in a lifetime, but more to the point I don’t trust these people with our club.
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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:22 pm

You've just got to feel for these small shareholders.

They bout something for £50 to £300 and now it's worth £1700. £850 in cash and £850 as a credit note. Yet they still find stuff to whinge about.

The one that really confuses me is "they are worthless". No they are not, they are worth alot more than you paid for them.

If you are so unhappy......give them to me.....I won't whinge about them.
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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:23 pm

You've just got to feel for these small shareholders.

They bought something for £50 to £300 and now it's worth £1700. £850 in cash and £850 as a credit note. Yet they still find stuff to whinge about.

The one that really confuses me is "they are worthless". No they are not, they are worth alot more than you paid for them.

If you are so unhappy......give them to me.....I won't whinge about them.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:26 pm

Lol. Yes please give me your worthless bits of paper. :roll:

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:27 pm

Culmclaret wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:22 pm
Holding a reasonable number of shares I will not be selling. I don’t need the money and frankly they can f**k off. The offer is a shabby one in that I could never redeem the ‘tokens’ in a lifetime, but more to the point I don’t trust these people with our club.
Did you ever imagine anyone offering £850 a share?

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:32 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:22 pm
One of the problems has been that shares can only be transferred with board permission. I sought details for a friend and learned that they’d outsourced the process. This was in 2020 prior to the takeover.
Do the AofA differentiate between board approval for a sale/purchase to a new shareholder rather than to an existing one ? I have been trying for nearly a year to get some sort of response from shareholder@burnleyfc.com but it is painful, all I want to do is consolidate my holdings into my own name!

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Reb » Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:45 pm

All shareholders have received the same offer - it is part of the new owners wanting to be "fair" and offer all shareholders a chance to sell not just board members.
Payments for shares already bought in order for the take over to happen are being spread out over a period of time.
Whilst I would never be able to spend my club credit in my lifetime, I certainly would not have expected anywhere near £850 a share.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Rileybobs » Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:58 pm

Judging by some of the responses I wonder whether the offer would have gone down better if it was simply £850 per share and no mention of club credit.
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Conroy92
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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Conroy92 » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:06 pm

They named the price per share and then actually offer you half that number and half store credit... Who do you thinks getting the better end of the deal?

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Rileybobs » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:09 pm

Conroy92 wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:06 pm
They named the price per share and then actually offer you half that number and half store credit... Who do you thinks getting the better end of the deal?
The offer is mutually beneficial, seeing as there is no benefits to holding those shares other than hoping a better offer comes along in the future. The offer will be attractive to some and less so to others, people aren’t obliged to sell.

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Culmclaret » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:11 pm

The letter annoyed me because it was full of b/s. I have calmed down now! Before this thread appeared I was perfectly happy to have a number of shares which I assumed were worthless, so I am no worse off not selling the shares and have returned to being perfectly happy….although I remain unconvinced that the new ownership and the way it has been financed is in the long term interests of our great club.
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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Bacupboy » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:17 pm

I may have missed it, but does anyone actually understand what is going on with all these different companies being involved as per the first page of the letter? I used to work in finance, and I don't understand why there needs to be so many companies involved. I can only think that they are trying to hide something ( and succeeding!) using smoke and mirrors. The result is that I don't trust the new owners and can only see heartache ahead. 'Culmclaret '

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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by Bacupboy » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:19 pm

(Continued) Culmclaret thinks the offer is shabby! I think we would be crazy to ignore it. Anyone not taking up the offer will live to regret it.
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Re: Shareholders' letter

Post by bfcjg » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:32 pm

I haven't received my letter yet, anyone else not ?

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