Shareholders' letter
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Re: Shareholders' letter
I’m on the page of accepting the offer on the small quantity of shares that I have - however, the 50% Voucher element is of no practical use to me.
Thought: Can the club not set-up the option for this aspect to be handled as a donation to charity? Maybe BFC In the Community, even?
Alternatively, anyone up for taking my vouchers of me for a mutually agreed donation to charity?
Thought: Can the club not set-up the option for this aspect to be handled as a donation to charity? Maybe BFC In the Community, even?
Alternatively, anyone up for taking my vouchers of me for a mutually agreed donation to charity?
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Re: Shareholders' letter
If I'd retained all my shares and then sold them with this offer I'd have been receiving a £84,950.00 BFC voucher.cricketfield73 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:59 amI'll be selling my solitary share though the credit to spend with the club isn't of any use to me, nor most non-season ticket holders I'd imagine.
Not sure on practicalities or legalities, but would it be possible to get something set up for those lumbered with an otherwise pretty useless £849.50 BFC voucher to recoup at least some of the money by purchasing a season ticket for someone else using the credit?
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Just realised if I buy a shirt with my credit every year, I’ll be 127 by the time I’ve spent it
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Could they be buying more shares maybe to sell to another outside investor thus keeping 84 % stake of the club
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Does anyone think it is worth negotiating here ? Rather than accept £850 in vouchers, happy to accept 50% in cash instead
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Re: Shareholders' letter
I'm sure someone who pays for 2 STs or more would buy the credit off you for cash.Marney&Mee wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:15 pmDoes anyone think it is worth negotiating here ? Rather than accept £850 in vouchers, happy to accept 50% in cash instead
Re: Shareholders' letter
For those interested in just getting cash for their shares or selling some and not all it might be better to wait for this to happen:
Later this month, in October, BHL will be appointing Asset Match (www.assetmatch.com), an online private share trading facility, to offer shareholders going forward an ongoing means to sell or transfer their shares in BHL. Asset Match, a firm authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority, will operate an electronic off-market dealing facility for shares in BHL. This facility will allow shareholders of BHL to trade shares in BHL by matching buyers and sellers through periodic auctions.
Re: Shareholders' letter
I’d be surprised if the credit was transferable. But those who will have an excessive amount of credit need to direct the question at the club really.Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:28 pmI'm sure someone who pays for 2 STs or more would buy the credit off you for cash.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Glad the minority shareholders are getting an offer for their shares, but don't agree with ALK (again!) using the clubs coffers to prop up their finances by putting 50% of the financial burden back on to the club by way of club credit.
Re: Shareholders' letter
Being a shareholder once gave us a voice at the AGM. This opportunity has been taken away therefore I shall sell my two shares. I have written to the club two or three times over the past two years without receiving a reply. This is the way the world is - individuals have no say and are ignored.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Two questions please,
1. Was the communication from ALK an eMail or a letter through the post box?
2. How do I find out if ALK have my correct contact details?
1. Was the communication from ALK an eMail or a letter through the post box?
2. How do I find out if ALK have my correct contact details?
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Both - reported on here last night that it was an email but I’ve just spoken to a friend of mine who has received all the details by letter.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
I've had both email & letter. Will probably sell but want some assurance for the timescale for spending the 'vouchers'
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Re: Shareholders' letter
I've had both as well.Claret Till I Die wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:37 pmI've had both email & letter. Will probably sell but want some assurance for the timescale for spending the 'vouchers'
The correspondence doesn't use the word "vouchers", it refers to "credit", which suggests to me that there is no expiry date for using the credit.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
I would be happy to help out next season, my two season tickets cost more than. I normally in full anyway so if we could use your credit and pay the extra balance. Then bank transfer you the amount of your credit.cricketfield73 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:59 amI'll be selling my solitary share though the credit to spend with the club isn't of any use to me, nor most non-season ticket holders I'd imagine.
Not sure on practicalities or legalities, but would it be possible to get something set up for those lumbered with an otherwise pretty useless £849.50 BFC voucher to recoup at least some of the money by purchasing a season ticket for someone else using the credit?
Would that work, I am sure the club would allow that.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Radio Lancs interview with Mr Pace regarding this issue is out there now...
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Just a snippet from the club statement on the website as I think somebody earlier didn't think you could spend the ' club credit ' on food and drink;
Burnley Chairman Alan Pace says the club ownership felt the time was right to provide fans with an offer to exit shareholding if that is their preferred option. The offer to supporters consists of a 50-50 split between cash and club credit which can be spent on ticketing, merchandise, or food & drink at Turf Moor.
https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/con ... ers-notice
Burnley Chairman Alan Pace says the club ownership felt the time was right to provide fans with an offer to exit shareholding if that is their preferred option. The offer to supporters consists of a 50-50 split between cash and club credit which can be spent on ticketing, merchandise, or food & drink at Turf Moor.
https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/con ... ers-notice
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Someone make the Twix joke quick.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Hello Lowbank, that's a brilliant offer and thank you so much. I'm sure that we could work something out whereby I could buy your 2 season tickets - providing, as you alluded to, that the club allow it, that is. I could drop you my email and take things from there?Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:46 pmI would be happy to help out next season, my two season tickets cost more than. I normally in full anyway so if we could use your credit and pay the extra balance. Then bank transfer you the amount of your credit.
Would that work, I am sure the club would allow that.
Once again, thanks!
Re: Shareholders' letter
Oof, that sounds like a market where some naïve people are going to lose a lot of money.
I can't imagine there will be much of a market for minority shares in BFC, particularly not above the level that has already been offered. It may also be the case that any share transfers need to be approved by the directors.
Re: Shareholders' letter
I think you missed the point of the post Tony. When they are on Asset Match the suggestion is that you can trade shares.
For those with more than 7 shares it might be worth waiting and selling them in lots to reduce capital gains tax liability.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Good that Mr Pace has come out and fronted this, he seems impressive to me, but one thing we should all agree on is that this gesture is to benefit ALK, if it gives welcome money to some fans that is a byproduct.
I’ve tried to give my professional (financial not legal) view on this thread to try to get everyone to see all angles not just from their own perspective but this money will make a difference to a lot of people so people have to make their own minds up. I have no doubts this will go through and take ALK to a point where they can enforce a full buyout, the question then is “will they” because Mr Pace was quite forthright in his message that fans are under no obligation to sell - if that changes in the future with a compulsory buyout fans could get quite upset given today’s messaging.
There is a Rovers fan on Twitter who I saw warning us off this move, whether that is just fear based on their own experiences, who knows?
What would I do? I’d sell, because I would predict I’d end up having to sell anyway so it would at least lock in a price. Imagine a forced buyout after relegation, what share price then?
I’ve tried to give my professional (financial not legal) view on this thread to try to get everyone to see all angles not just from their own perspective but this money will make a difference to a lot of people so people have to make their own minds up. I have no doubts this will go through and take ALK to a point where they can enforce a full buyout, the question then is “will they” because Mr Pace was quite forthright in his message that fans are under no obligation to sell - if that changes in the future with a compulsory buyout fans could get quite upset given today’s messaging.
There is a Rovers fan on Twitter who I saw warning us off this move, whether that is just fear based on their own experiences, who knows?
What would I do? I’d sell, because I would predict I’d end up having to sell anyway so it would at least lock in a price. Imagine a forced buyout after relegation, what share price then?
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Is that the one where we say it may be possible to buy a whole Twix with the "club credit" if you have 2 shares to sell?
4XL Twix, I guess.
Re: Shareholders' letter
If CVHL thought the shares would have no value then why would they be making this offer? Do you think they've been naive? Surely they'd be far better off doing nothing and picking them up for less when they become tradable.aggi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:18 pmOof, that sounds like a market where some naïve people are going to lose a lot of money.
I can't imagine there will be much of a market for minority shares in BFC, particularly not above the level that has already been offered. It may also be the case that any share transfers need to be approved by the directors.
Re: Shareholders' letter
I'm not so sure. Mike Garlick and John B still have ~ 9% of shares I think. I imagine there will be enough other shareholders who don't take up the offer to not hit the 90% threshold.CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:20 pm... I have no doubts this will go through and take ALK to a point where they can enforce a full buyout ...
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Hi dibradio, where are you seeing this stuff about Asset Match? Is BHL the entity that (some) BFC supporters own shares in?
It appears a little odd for ALK/Velocity to make an offer to buy shares held by the 6% of small shareholders (while recognising that the small shareholders don't have to sell) and at the same time setting up a share trading facility.
Re: Shareholders' letter
The value to CVHL is different to the value to a minority shareholder.
I'm not sure who BHL is in your quote (or where the quote is from)?
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Check your details on Companies House returns re BFC. The club has to list all shareholdings at regular intervals. If your details are incorrect contact the Company Secretary at the club.
I'd also check your "junk mail" folder in your email. It's not unusual for mass mailings to end up in some recipients junk folders.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
I think the initial purchase was 84% with the small shareholders holding 6% which will leave MG & JB with around 10% and I would think MG having around 6.5% of those. I was under the impression that their shareholding would actually be transferred eventually which, of course, would take them beyond 90% but I believe that could be 2023.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Pace mentions setting up a share trading facility in his Radio Lancs interview.Paul Waine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:33 pmHi dibradio, where are you seeing this stuff about Asset Match? Is BHL the entity that (some) BFC supporters own shares in?
It appears a little odd for ALK/Velocity to make an offer to buy shares held by the 6% of small shareholders (while recognising that the small shareholders don't have to sell) and at the same time setting up a share trading facility.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
That statement is more expensive than the wording in the letter I quoted earlier.Claretnick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:59 pmJust a snippet from the club statement on the website as I think somebody earlier didn't think you could spend the ' club credit ' on food and drink;
Burnley Chairman Alan Pace says the club ownership felt the time was right to provide fans with an offer to exit shareholding if that is their preferred option. The offer to supporters consists of a 50-50 split between cash and club credit which can be spent on ticketing, merchandise, or food & drink at Turf Moor.
https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/con ... ers-notice
Effectively, your Team Card could become an in-house debit card. Not bad really.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
The information is in the letter to share holders in Burnley FC Holdings Limited (“BHL”). According to the letter 94% of the issued share capital of BHL was bought by Calder Vale Holdings Limited ("CVHL"). The quote is from the letter.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
* Expansive. The curse of autocorrect.gawthorpe_view wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:58 pmThat statement is more expensive* than the wording in the letter I quoted earlier.
Effectively, your Team Card could become an in-house debit card. Not bad really.
Re: Shareholders' letter
There are laws to protect minority shareholders, even in private companies. In essence the idea is that you can't favour one shareholder ahead of another if they both hold the same shares, so they have to offer the same price to minority shareholders as they did to the majority. If they didn't it would be called in law a "fraud on the minority" and minority shareholders could take them to court to get the same money.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Not bad at all, but still some complain...... The joys of being a burnley fan..... If you don't like it... Don't sell... But stop bloomin moaning, or coming up with hypothetical situations that will never happen.gawthorpe_view wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:58 pmThat statement is more expensive than the wording in the letter I quoted earlier.
Effectively, your Team Card could become an in-house debit card. Not bad really.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
From my perspective it's a no no due to CGT issues. As a previous poster noted the HMRC would view the full amount as liable for CGT and in effect take a large chunk of change off me if I agreed to sell. I own 33. I can't quite figure out ALKs angle on this but they are smart financial operators and I'm sure that they are making money on this deal so the shares do have some value. I certainly don't want to pay tax on 28K of credit with BFC.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
My father in law(sadly passed away a few years back) had a share in the club. We still have this but it is in his name and I am guessing any correspondence will have gone to his old address.
Will have to get in touch with the club to see how we handle. We have certificate of probate also so am hoping we can sort. I think he would quite like the fact that this could pay for his grandsons season ticket for a year or two.
Will have to get in touch with the club to see how we handle. We have certificate of probate also so am hoping we can sort. I think he would quite like the fact that this could pay for his grandsons season ticket for a year or two.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Pace has confirmed that the credit can be used for season tickets, hospitality, food and drink or merchandise. It won't have an expiry date.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
I bet the major shareholders ALK bought out weren't offered 50% cash and 50% credit with the club, so why should the minor shareholders be treated differently?
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Re: Shareholders' letter
But the shareholders will have an expiry date, as do we all. What happens to the credit when we die? Does is die with us, or is it transferable to next of kin?claretandy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:15 pmPace has confirmed that the credit can be used for season tickets, hospitality, food and drink or merchandise. It won't have an expiry date.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
..and this is the same club who wouldn't put programmes from home games aside for me to collect once a month because it would be 'too much hassle'claretandy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:15 pmPace has confirmed that the credit can be used for season tickets, hospitality, food and drink or merchandise. It won't have an expiry date.
Re: Shareholders' letter
That makes a bit more sense. I still can't imagine the shares on there would go for a huge amount (as an example there were some Spurs shares sold on there recently which would give a valuation of £350m, much lower than I think most would value Spurs).
Realistically though most aren't going to sell shares on there. ALK doing all the running is in part to get more people selling, if they'd just teamed up with Asset Match and hoped for the best there would be a minimal number of people going to the effort of registering and selling.
The 94% figure is interesting. I thought at the time it was reported that Mike Garlick and John B had maintained a smaller shareholding. I guess it could be in some entity further up the chain. I guess we'll see (or possibly not given the obfuscated ownership) in a few months.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
I really can't think of anything that ALK could do with 100% of the shares that they couldn't do with 94%, so from a "control" standpoint, I don't see what they have to gain. I seem to recall they introduced a rule in the restructuring 10 years or so ago effectively meaning that you had to hold a minimum number of shares (1,000?) to vote anyway, which disenfranchised the vast majority of smaller shareholders.CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:20 pmGood that Mr Pace has come out and fronted this, he seems impressive to me, but one thing we should all agree on is that this gesture is to benefit ALK, if it gives welcome money to some fans that is a byproduct.
I’ve tried to give my professional (financial not legal) view on this thread to try to get everyone to see all angles not just from their own perspective but this money will make a difference to a lot of people so people have to make their own minds up. I have no doubts this will go through and take ALK to a point where they can enforce a full buyout, the question then is “will they” because Mr Pace was quite forthright in his message that fans are under no obligation to sell - if that changes in the future with a compulsory buyout fans could get quite upset given today’s messaging.
There is a Rovers fan on Twitter who I saw warning us off this move, whether that is just fear based on their own experiences, who knows?
What would I do? I’d sell, because I would predict I’d end up having to sell anyway so it would at least lock in a price. Imagine a forced buyout after relegation, what share price then?
I've often wondered if the Club has been fully on the right side of the law in the way they've treated small shareholders since the restructuring. Maybe Pace has looked at it and wants to eliminate the possibility of any legal trouble in the future, or maybe he just wants to do the decent thing by small shareholders by offering them something amounting to "equitable" terms - like he would have had to do if Burnley had been a PLC.
Re: Shareholders' letter
at the potential detriment to the clubs finances...Burnley1989 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:59 pmUsual suspects out
Get them sold, they’re worthless and you can enjoy your investment
Re: Shareholders' letter
And the same in cash!ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:10 pmIf I'd retained all my shares and then sold them with this offer I'd have been receiving a £84,950.00 BFC voucher.
You could buy a house next to the ground and decorate it with 4XL shirts!
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Re: Shareholders' letter
A good reason to retain one's share.dsr wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:02 pmThere are laws to protect minority shareholders, even in private companies. In essence the idea is that you can't favour one shareholder ahead of another if they both hold the same shares, so they have to offer the same price to minority shareholders as they did to the majority. If they didn't it would be called in law a "fraud on the minority" and minority shareholders could take them to court to get the same money.
One day, there will be a nicely worded letter informing wee shareholders that their share is being compulsorily purchased. Then the 5 year pay the debt clause will pass the debt in house. The investor companies will disappear and outright ownership of a debt laden entity will be the outcome.
The alternative would be to do the opposite, perhaps.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
I'm sure you're wrong about the 1,000 shares needed to vote, because that would be illegal. Maybe they increased the limit to 1,000 shares to become a director. That would be possible and rings a vague bell.scouseclaret wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:53 pmI really can't think of anything that ALK could do with 100% of the shares that they couldn't do with 94%, so from a "control" standpoint, I don't see what they have to gain. I seem to recall they introduced a rule in the restructuring 10 years or so ago effectively meaning that you had to hold a minimum number of shares (1,000?) to vote anyway, which disenfranchised the vast majority of smaller shareholders.
I've often wondered if the Club has been fully on the right side of the law in the way they've treated small shareholders since the restructuring. Maybe Pace has looked at it and wants to eliminate the possibility of any legal trouble in the future, or maybe he just wants to do the decent thing by small shareholders by offering them something amounting to "equitable" terms - like he would have had to do if Burnley had been a PLC.
I suspect you might be right about paragraph 2. It also occurs to me that a shareholder with 90% of the shares can force the minority to sell the remaining 10%, so if ALK get their shareholding above 90% it adds a degree of value to their shareholding if they want to sell. The hypothetical purchaser would know he can become 100% owner.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
I think the number of shares required to be able to take a place on the board was 4,000 which is why all the directors bar Garlick & John B had around that figure.dsr wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:16 pmI'm sure you're wrong about the 1,000 shares needed to vote, because that would be illegal. Maybe they increased the limit to 1,000 shares to become a director. That would be possible and rings a vague bell.
I suspect you might be right about paragraph 2. It also occurs to me that a shareholder with 90% of the shares can force the minority to sell the remaining 10%, so if ALK get their shareholding above 90% it adds a degree of value to their shareholding if they want to sell. The hypothetical purchaser would know he can become 100% owner.
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