Hi CT, yes, I know that. How have they dealt with deceased shareholders? There's got to be a way that these can get transferred according to the deceased shareholders wishes. One or two posters on here appear to have inherited their shares, although apparently not reflected on the club's register of shareholders.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:21 pmI've previously explained, shares can only be transferred via permission from the board of directors.
Shareholders' letter
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Re: Shareholders' letter
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Re: Shareholders' letter
You would expect it would be a simple procedure to transfer the shares of someone who has passed away and I can't imagine the board would prevent it, but it still has to approved at a board meeting.Paul Waine wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:25 pmHi CT, yes, I know that. How have they dealt with deceased shareholders? There's got to be a way that these can get transferred according to the deceased shareholders wishes. One or two posters on here appear to have inherited their shares, although apparently not reflected on the club's register of shareholders.
Re: Shareholders' letter
I have a copy of the minutes from an AGM and a notice of an EGM from June 1950, both were held at the Mechanics.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:47 pmLord often held them at the Central Library but I don't know about the Mechanics.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
That's way before my time but they never held them at the football club for years because there was nowhere at the Turf where it could be held. The Mechanics would have been an appropriate place.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
A library would be a good choice to hold an AGM, so nobody raised their voice at the board.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Just had a quick look at Asset Match to get a feel for future prices on there,
Spurs are on there during a live auction (which can take months) with an indicative price of 170 which means a market cap of £300m-£400m. Doesn’t seem much for Spurs. Did somebody on this thread say the BFC offer values the club over £200m?
I’m no expert and certainly not giving advice but I would be quite pessimistic about selling shares for this price again (i.e. it is a good opportunity) based on what I see on the platform now. Especially if the shareholder can make use of the credit (I sympathise with the ones who get a totally impractical amount of credit).
Spurs are on there during a live auction (which can take months) with an indicative price of 170 which means a market cap of £300m-£400m. Doesn’t seem much for Spurs. Did somebody on this thread say the BFC offer values the club over £200m?
I’m no expert and certainly not giving advice but I would be quite pessimistic about selling shares for this price again (i.e. it is a good opportunity) based on what I see on the platform now. Especially if the shareholder can make use of the credit (I sympathise with the ones who get a totally impractical amount of credit).
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Re: Shareholders' letter
After much thought i have decided to keep my three shares. Had them 30 odd years and id rather have them than not.
Never used the shareholding to get tickets.
I might have sold if it had been cash not credit.
Never used the shareholding to get tickets.
I might have sold if it had been cash not credit.
Re: Shareholders' letter
Talking of balance sheets, I had the first 13 years balance sheets, from 1896, which were straightforward reports. Showing wages, match income and expenditure. At least I'd the foresight to take copies of them.
Sadly like all my considerable collection of memorabilia, they had to be sold.
Sadly like all my considerable collection of memorabilia, they had to be sold.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Didn't the chap from Hebden Bridge always insist on availing the Board and fellow shareholders with his extensive business experience managing a textile mill somewhere up the Calder Valley, whilst ignoring the pleas from the floor to "Sit down and shut up"?ClaretTony wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:47 pmLord often held them at the Central Library but I don't know about the Mechanics. More recent years, post Lord, were always held at the Club, either Centre Spot or Longside, until they came to a stop after the one in the Centre Spot in November 2012.
Who was the bloke from Hebden Bridge who used to ramble on about things that were nothing to do with the club? I remember the one in the 1990s when we had Holt v Dearing on the shareholding and Rothwell was made to look somewhat still when he was quoting the wrong year's figures on the club shop and had the place laughing at him. At the same meeting, John Gilbraith (Glory Years) was invited to tender for the kit deal by one director while another had told him he couldn't.
Some of them were pure farce and then you would have Brooks attacking the board for one reason or another. There was the year when he was shamefully handing out leaflets to try and force Doc Iven off the board. The meeting turned on Brooks that night.
They were good entertainment at times.
Re: Shareholders' letter
Who would want to buy Burnley shares other than ALK anyway?CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:20 amJust had a quick look at Asset Match to get a feel for future prices on there,
Spurs are on there during a live auction (which can take months) with an indicative price of 170 which means a market cap of £300m-£400m. Doesn’t seem much for Spurs. Did somebody on this thread say the BFC offer values the club over £200m?
I’m no expert and certainly not giving advice but I would be quite pessimistic about selling shares for this price again (i.e. it is a good opportunity) based on what I see on the platform now. Especially if the shareholder can make use of the credit (I sympathise with the ones who get a totally impractical amount of credit).
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Always felt sorry for those that had to sit near him at the match. He was relentless every year and always nonsense.the_magic_rat wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:00 amDidn't the chap from Hebden Bridge always insist on availing the Board and fellow shareholders with his extensive business experience managing a textile mill somewhere up the Calder Valley, whilst ignoring the pleas from the floor to "Sit down and shut up"?
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Re: Shareholders' letter
That was him. One year he rambled on about rhododendrons for no apparent reason.the_magic_rat wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:00 amDidn't the chap from Hebden Bridge always insist on availing the Board and fellow shareholders with his extensive business experience managing a textile mill somewhere up the Calder Valley, whilst ignoring the pleas from the floor to "Sit down and shut up"?
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Another year he offered to play the piano to raise funds.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:57 pmThat was him. One year he rambled on about rhododendrons for no apparent reason.
Re: Shareholders' letter
I thought Elton John was a Watford supporter.gawthorpe_view wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:17 pmAnother year he offered to play the piano to raise funds.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
The chairman, be it Jackson, Teasdale or Kilby just allowed him to get on with it but at one meeting, with Ingleby in the chair for one item on the agenda, he was told in no uncertain terms to stick to the agenda.gawthorpe_view wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:17 pmAnother year he offered to play the piano to raise funds.
Re: Shareholders' letter
For those who hold shares and haven’t been contacted I can confirm that contacting the email address above has bourne fruit! I’ve had a response today with the letter attached saying it would have gone to me old address. When I contacted them I provided my shareholding number for the last confirmation statement on the internet and details of the address I was at when I acquired the share.martin_p wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:57 amI’m the same. I emailed shareholder@burnleyfc.com about it on Wednesday and await a response.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Anyone contacted the secretary on the email address within the letter in order to gain clarification on the offer?
If so, how did you go on getting a reply & was the clarification forthcoming?
Just curious... I’ve mailed regarding the voucher element & so far waiting for response...
... Suspect it might be a futile request
If so, how did you go on getting a reply & was the clarification forthcoming?
Just curious... I’ve mailed regarding the voucher element & so far waiting for response...
... Suspect it might be a futile request
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Using the spreadsheet of shareholders earlier in the thread there are 7,849 share held by "minority" shareholders which are subject to this offer.
Using the Value being placed on them of £1699 per share that is a total of value of £13,335,451 being placed on these shares by ALK, who wish to acquire them VIA Burnley FC Holding, which they now control.
This is an assumption, but seeing as ALK used the clubs own cash to complete the takeover I will assume the same is being done here. BFC own cash reserves will pay to acquire these shares for half the value £6,667,725.5, with the other half being provided in club credit against the club. So ALK are buying the shares using clubs money at half the value. but also (and correct me if I am wrong), but that is also £6,667,725.5m of future club revenue effectively being taken away from the club. £6m+ of future ticket, shop & catering revenue the club will not see. ALK get control of the shares, but the club is footing the cost again, in two different ways, initial cash & future earnings?
If & when we are eventually are relegated (I say "when" because the chances are we will at some point be relegated as realistically only 6 teams cannot probably be relegated) and the TV money is dramatically reduced, we will be in a position without a potential future earnings of £6,667,725.5m of non TV revenue.
Given the new debt placed on the club following the takeover I find this very worrying.
Using the Value being placed on them of £1699 per share that is a total of value of £13,335,451 being placed on these shares by ALK, who wish to acquire them VIA Burnley FC Holding, which they now control.
This is an assumption, but seeing as ALK used the clubs own cash to complete the takeover I will assume the same is being done here. BFC own cash reserves will pay to acquire these shares for half the value £6,667,725.5, with the other half being provided in club credit against the club. So ALK are buying the shares using clubs money at half the value. but also (and correct me if I am wrong), but that is also £6,667,725.5m of future club revenue effectively being taken away from the club. £6m+ of future ticket, shop & catering revenue the club will not see. ALK get control of the shares, but the club is footing the cost again, in two different ways, initial cash & future earnings?
If & when we are eventually are relegated (I say "when" because the chances are we will at some point be relegated as realistically only 6 teams cannot probably be relegated) and the TV money is dramatically reduced, we will be in a position without a potential future earnings of £6,667,725.5m of non TV revenue.
Given the new debt placed on the club following the takeover I find this very worrying.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
I’ve just quoted your last sentence Sleeping Cat and I’m sure you’re not the only one worried at the debt now being placed on the club.Sleeping Cat wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:37 pmGiven the new debt placed on the club following the takeover I find this very worrying.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
No reply as yet to email request for more detailed information on the credit note being offered
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Re: Shareholders' letter
My story is that I hold one share that I obtained when the club was promoted in 2009, when Mr Garlick offered season ticket holders their season ticket money back or a share in the club. I am aware that my name does not appear on companies house as a share holder and I have made three attempts to query this with the club. I received nothing back from emails to the club (general enquiries or supporters officer), however I did get a response from the club secretary in October 2020 and I provided all the information he asked for, but after a couple of email exchanges, when he said he was investigating the matter, he stopped responding.
Not surprisingly I have received no ‘shareholder’s letter’ from the club, so I have emailed them using the address provided further up this thread, outlining my situation. I have now received an automated response acknowledging my email; I’ll be interested to see what happens next!
FWIW I’m not intending to ‘sell’ the share, but I do wonder why I’m bothered given the poor / lack of response from the club to my question, over the previous three years.
Not surprisingly I have received no ‘shareholder’s letter’ from the club, so I have emailed them using the address provided further up this thread, outlining my situation. I have now received an automated response acknowledging my email; I’ll be interested to see what happens next!
FWIW I’m not intending to ‘sell’ the share, but I do wonder why I’m bothered given the poor / lack of response from the club to my question, over the previous three years.
Re: Shareholders' letter
Have you got a share certificate?ICL wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:29 amMy story is that I hold one share that I obtained when the club was promoted in 2009, when Mr Garlick offered season ticket holders their season ticket money back or a share in the club. I am aware that my name does not appear on companies house as a share holder and I have made three attempts to query this with the club. I received nothing back from emails to the club (general enquiries or supporters officer), however I did get a response from the club secretary in October 2020 and I provided all the information he asked for, but after a couple of email exchanges, when he said he was investigating the matter, he stopped responding.
Not surprisingly I have received no ‘shareholder’s letter’ from the club, so I have emailed them using the address provided further up this thread, outlining my situation. I have now received an automated response acknowledging my email; I’ll be interested to see what happens next!
FWIW I’m not intending to ‘sell’ the share, but I do wonder why I’m bothered given the poor / lack of response from the club to my question, over the previous three years.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
'Exciting times'Sleeping Cat wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:37 pmUsing the spreadsheet of shareholders earlier in the thread there are 7,849 share held by "minority" shareholders which are subject to this offer.
Using the Value being placed on them of £1699 per share that is a total of value of £13,335,451 being placed on these shares by ALK, who wish to acquire them VIA Burnley FC Holding, which they now control.
This is an assumption, but seeing as ALK used the clubs own cash to complete the takeover I will assume the same is being done here. BFC own cash reserves will pay to acquire these shares for half the value £6,667,725.5, with the other half being provided in club credit against the club. So ALK are buying the shares using clubs money at half the value. but also (and correct me if I am wrong), but that is also £6,667,725.5m of future club revenue effectively being taken away from the club. £6m+ of future ticket, shop & catering revenue the club will not see. ALK get control of the shares, but the club is footing the cost again, in two different ways, initial cash & future earnings?
If & when we are eventually are relegated (I say "when" because the chances are we will at some point be relegated as realistically only 6 teams cannot probably be relegated) and the TV money is dramatically reduced, we will be in a position without a potential future earnings of £6,667,725.5m of non TV revenue.
Given the new debt placed on the club following the takeover I find this very worrying.
Re: Shareholders' letter
For any shareholder fans who are very worried about the club going into further debt, the answer is simple, don’t sell your share/s.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:06 pmI’ve just quoted your last sentence Sleeping Cat and I’m sure you’re not the only one worried at the debt now being placed on the club.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
The Clarets Trust, on behalf of its' members, have issued a statement saying they are not selling the shares they hold.
Re: Shareholders' letter
And presumably insist the club don’t buy anymore players? The damage is done on the debt front, the last 6% of shares will cost the club significantly less that it could expect to spend on a decidedly average player. I’m not saying I’m happy with how the sale of the club has been funded and the debt now piled upon it but that horse has very much bolted and not selling the club your shares is going to have a negligible impact on that debt. That said, people should make whatever decision is right for them.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Just read a Burnley Express article that the Clarets Trust won't be selling their 172 shares. Pointless really as any monies gained can't go to members and will have to be donated to charity.
Did the Clarets trust get anywhere by buying these shares? Voting rights or anything?
Beaten to it by Sean Dyche's watch.
Did the Clarets trust get anywhere by buying these shares? Voting rights or anything?
Beaten to it by Sean Dyche's watch.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
That’s 300k that could be used for youth football. It’s a lot of money just to hold on to the hope that the club might work with them in the future. Do they need shares for that?
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Re: Shareholders' letter
I assume you've let the club know you have a share certificate. So, it's really the club's issue about why they've not recorded your shareholding with the Companies House details. Maybe you are the only one that is missing, or maybe there were others that also took shares back in 2009. Maybe there's been a mix-up in names, possibly you share added to someone else's existing holding, maybe someone with a similar name? It's not so long ago. Somewhere there will be records of the club making this offer.
Good luck.
Re: Shareholders' letter
If you did wish to sell the only info you have to send to the shareholder email address is your name, email address and number of shares you hold and share certificate(s) number.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Thanks. I previously supplied all the details plus an image of the certificate, after that I heard nothing more from BFC even though I repeatedly emailed them. All very poor and I do wonder how many other people there are in my situation.Paul Waine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:34 pmI assume you've let the club know you have a share certificate. So, it's really the club's issue about why they've not recorded your shareholding with the Companies House details. Maybe you are the only one that is missing, or maybe there were others that also took shares back in 2009. Maybe there's been a mix-up in names, possibly you share added to someone else's existing holding, maybe someone with a similar name? It's not so long ago. Somewhere there will be records of the club making this offer.
Good luck.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Shares are no longer held for Burnley Football & Athletic Company Limited which is now wholly owned by Burnley FC Holdings Limited which is the company we have shares in.
Re: Shareholders' letter
Yes, the share certificate I obtained via the ‘chairman’s pledge’ when we won the play-offs in 2009 (I wonder if anyone has worked out how much that pledge cost the club!) is for Burnley FC Holdings Ltd and is signed by Garlick and Banaszkiewicz.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:04 pmShares are no longer held for Burnley Football & Athletic Company Limited which is now wholly owned by Burnley FC Holdings Limited which is the company we have shares in.
Re: Shareholders' letter
Wasn't the estimate that the Chairman's pledge cost the club about 3 million in lost season ticket revenue? The decision to offer shares in the place of the season ticket wasn't part of the original pledge was it? A bit like ALK offering half in credit at the club, it probably seemed like a good idea at the time because it was "free" money.
Re: Shareholders' letter
It wasn’t part of the original pledge but was part of how the pledge was eventually resolved. If you remember, because the club always tries to sell the bulk of its season tickets in an early bird period in March, the vast majority had bought season tickets well before we got promoted. So the pledge essentially became about refunding those that had paid for the now free tickets. As I remember it season ticket holders were presented with three option, take a full refund, take half a refund and a share or decline any sort of refund and ‘gift’ the money to the club. The only reason I, and I suspect many others, am a shareholder is that I took the middle option which has effectively made the chairman’s pledge worth a free season ticket and approx £1500 to me. Thanks Wadedibraidio wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:23 pmWasn't the estimate that the Chairman's pledge cost the club about 3 million in lost season ticket revenue? The decision to offer shares in the place of the season ticket wasn't part of the original pledge was it? A bit like ALK offering half in credit at the club, it probably seemed like a good idea at the time because it was "free" money.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
When asked how it would be funded Alan Pace did say "That will come from our capital outside the club.".Sleeping Cat wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:37 pmUsing the spreadsheet of shareholders earlier in the thread there are 7,849 share held by "minority" shareholders which are subject to this offer.
Using the Value being placed on them of £1699 per share that is a total of value of £13,335,451 being placed on these shares by ALK, who wish to acquire them VIA Burnley FC Holding, which they now control.
This is an assumption, but seeing as ALK used the clubs own cash to complete the takeover I will assume the same is being done here. BFC own cash reserves will pay to acquire these shares for half the value £6,667,725.5, with the other half being provided in club credit against the club. So ALK are buying the shares using clubs money at half the value. but also (and correct me if I am wrong), but that is also £6,667,725.5m of future club revenue effectively being taken away from the club. £6m+ of future ticket, shop & catering revenue the club will not see. ALK get control of the shares, but the club is footing the cost again, in two different ways, initial cash & future earnings?
If & when we are eventually are relegated (I say "when" because the chances are we will at some point be relegated as realistically only 6 teams cannot probably be relegated) and the TV money is dramatically reduced, we will be in a position without a potential future earnings of £6,667,725.5m of non TV revenue.
Given the new debt placed on the club following the takeover I find this very worrying.
Whether this rules out it being recharged at some point is tough to tell. I think it would but it could be a get-out technicality.
I suspect that the "club credit" element isn't going to be repaid in cash from capital outside th club but, as always, who knows.
Re: Shareholders' letter
Those 172 shares are, in terms of influence, worth as much as 1 share. They obviously carry more voting weight (172 votes as opposed to 1) but realistically it's a fraction of a percent against a fraction of a percent.Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:49 pmJust read a Burnley Express article that the Clarets Trust won't be selling their 172 shares. Pointless really as any monies gained can't go to members and will have to be donated to charity.
Did the Clarets trust get anywhere by buying these shares? Voting rights or anything?
Beaten to it by Sean Dyche's watch.
A dilemma as to what to do with it though. Keep the shares, take the money out and give it to charity, take it out and invest it in case the club ever hits financial hard times and needs rescuing?
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Sell the shares to the club, invest the cash in a "New AFC Burnley Fresh Start" Fund if the existing club hits hard times. Accrington Stanley and AFC Wimbledon have proved that it can be done, using just two clubs, now both in League 1, to illustrate how there's lots of upsides if there are ever "down sides" ahead.aggi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:21 pmThose 172 shares are, in terms of influence, worth as much as 1 share. They obviously carry more voting weight (172 votes as opposed to 1) but realistically it's a fraction of a percent against a fraction of a percent.
A dilemma as to what to do with it though. Keep the shares, take the money out and give it to charity, take it out and invest it in case the club ever hits financial hard times and needs rescuing?
However, I think the club is heading for exciting times.
UTC
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Exciting times certainly, but in a good way?Paul Waine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:58 pmSell the shares to the club, invest the cash in a "New AFC Burnley Fresh Start" Fund if the existing club hits hard times. Accrington Stanley and AFC Wimbledon have proved that it can be done, using just two clubs, now both in League 1, to illustrate how there's lots of upsides if there are ever "down sides" ahead.
However, I think the club is heading for exciting times.
UTC
We can but hope.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Looks like a shot to nothing investment from ALK. Odds now are that they will make a small loss but leave the club crippled with debt.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
We have a share as a group, I have emailed asking how we could use the credit but up to now how no reply
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Re: Shareholders' letter
In a contract an anti-embarrassment clause would normally be used to make an extra payment to a seller due to an issue that wasn’t clear at the time which causes the asset to be undervalued. Whether it can also be used for the re-acquisition in the circumstances that were widely reported at the time the club was bought, I wouldn’t know.
Back to the matter at hand though, I do tend to feel that ALK want to be in this for the reasonable long term, they probably want a win/win. It could still be “exciting times”, the issue for shareholders is whether they see the value of their shares increasing further, whether they simply love owning a part of BFC and don’t need the cash, or whether they view holding them as some kind of leverage for potential reasons outlined earlier in this thread.
Back to the matter at hand though, I do tend to feel that ALK want to be in this for the reasonable long term, they probably want a win/win. It could still be “exciting times”, the issue for shareholders is whether they see the value of their shares increasing further, whether they simply love owning a part of BFC and don’t need the cash, or whether they view holding them as some kind of leverage for potential reasons outlined earlier in this thread.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
I sent an email to the club asking a question 3 days ago for which I received the standard acknowledgement the morning after saying that they'd be in touch shortly. To date I haven't received anything else as I type.
Re: Shareholders' letter
Same here. Sent an email 6 weeks ago. No reply. Chased it up over 2 weeks ago. No reply (other than the acknowledgements).Claret Till I Die wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:04 pmI sent an email to the club asking a question 3 days ago for which I received the standard acknowledgement the morning after saying that they'd be in touch shortly. To date I haven't received anything else as I type.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
Likewise. I wonder..... will we get any kind of response to valid questions relating to the offer ahead of the deadline date/time? I will not be accepting without the club formally clarifying the terms around the voucher element.
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Re: Shareholders' letter
I inherited my Dads share and it was transferred to me by my dads solicitorClaretTony wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:28 pmYou would expect it would be a simple procedure to transfer the shares of someone who has passed away and I can't imagine the board would prevent it, but it still has to approved at a board meeting.
With me living in the states he took care of it
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Re: Shareholders' letter
His solicitor would have had to get board approval thoughCalifornia Colner wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:37 amI inherited my Dads share and it was transferred to me by my dads solicitor
With me living in the states he took care of it