Newcastle takeover

[jrgbfc]

Scott Parker was being linked to the Spurs job.

Fair point. Hopefully Dyche is backed by the new owners and we get to see what he can do without one hand tied behind his back.
But the point about Potter still stands, praising him doesn't need to be seen as some sort of slight on Dyche.

[Jakubclaret]

Alternatively the very best so-called managers won't touch jobs where there isn't a vast pot of money involved. Could any top manager keep us in the Prem with our resources, for example.

I find myself oddly agreeing with you, people bang on about Jose & pep ect all the big name managers managing all the big clubs with the vast resources could they manage a smaller club on a shoestring, odd examples will be found where a big name manager previously did find success with smaller clubs but that opportunity/luck happened to arrive, I’ve always maintained the likes of Jose & pep would be out of there depth managing a darlington ect with hardly any money to spend.

[Silkyskills1]

Fair point. Hopefully Dyche is backed by the new owners and we get to see what he can do without one hand tied behind his back.
But the point about Potter still stands, praising him doesn't need to be seen as some sort of slight on Dyche.

Why mention it then?

[KRBFC]

People on here are genuinely weird, they see positive remarks of other clubs/managers/players as negativity towards our own. There's better managers out there than Dyche, there's better football teams than Burnley and teams with better players than us.

It's not negativity, it's reality, get the **** over it.

[Nonayforever]

Wondering whether a big manager could manage a small club is a bit like asking Lewis Hamilton to win a grand Prix in a mini.
The question is more - could a manager of a small club manage Man City or Real Madrid - the answer is no.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Brendan Rogers the latest name to be linked with it.

Thought they might have made a move for Pep, Klopp or Tuchel by now.

[Newcastleclaret93]

I find myself oddly agreeing with you, people bang on about Jose & pep ect all the big name managers managing all the big clubs with the vast resources could they manage a smaller club on a shoestring, odd examples will be found where a big name manager previously did find success with smaller clubs but that opportunity/luck happened to arrive, I’ve always maintained the likes of Jose & pep would be out of there depth managing a darlington ect with hardly any money to spend.

I would imagine they would do a considerably better job than the managers the likes of Darlington currently have.

I think you could argue it the other way also, could any of these managers in the bottom reaches do what the likes of Pep and mourinho have. I seriously doubt it. After watching the Man City programme on Amazon you realise how good these managers are

[Local cricketer]

Brendan Rogers the latest name to be linked with it.

Thought they might have made a move for Pep, Klopp or Tuchel by now.

With the money they have they can probably revive Shankly and Paisley

[Sproggy]

Wondering whether a big manager could manage a small club is a bit like asking Lewis Hamilton to win a grand Prix in a mini.

Nope - it's like asking Lewis Hamilton to finish 17th or higher in a Haas. Which he probably would do.

Sean Dyche over-achieves with us every year. There aren't many other managers in the Premier League doing the same thing for their club.

[Spijed]

I would imagine they would do a considerably better job than the managers the likes of Darlington currently have.

I think you could argue it the other way also, could any of these managers in the bottom reaches do what the likes of Pep and mourinho have. I seriously doubt it. After watching the Man City programme on Amazon you realise how good these managers are

Take defending for example. Why does Guardiola need to keep on buying centre halves for £40-50 million if he's as good as you say he is?

Are you saying he'd organise a defence better than SD with our resources?

[Rileybobs]

Take defending for example. Why does Guardiola need to keep on buying centre halves for £40-50 million if he's as good as you say he is?

Are you saying he'd organise a defence better than SD with our resources?

Your level of delusion is astounding.

[Spijed]

Your level of delusion is astounding.

So you think all these top managers can easily operate on a shoestring if required, and make a success of it?

[KRBFC]

So you think all these top managers can easily operate on a shoestring if required, and make a success of it?

Are you genuinely serious or trolling? top managers win trophies not avoid relegation

[Spijed]

Are you genuinely serious or trolling? top managers win trophies not avoid relegation

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbymcmah ... n-4-years/

[Swizzlestick]

Most of the top managers have managed on a relative shoestring and made a success of it - Mourinho with the UCL with Porto before becoming one of the most successful managers ever, Klopp taking Mainz up and winning the Bundesliga with Dortmund etc etc. Guardiola took over the Barca job and made them the best club side of all time. We all love Dyche here but please have some perspective.

[Darthlaw]

I’ve always maintained the likes of Jose & pep would be out of there depth managing a darlington ect with hardly any money to spend.

In fairness to Jose he did bring home the Uefa Cup and Champions league with Porto, which was no mean feat, but he does look a spent force now. In fairness, Tottingham aside, he's also done well domestically and in Europe wherever he has been.

Pep however will always have it hanging over his head that he's only ever spunked bazillions on teams almost guaranteed to win their respective leagues and failed to achieve anything in Europe away from with possibly the best Barcelona team of all time. Not a chance he'll go to Newcastle though, PSG has his name written all over it.

[KRBFC]

Pep however will always have it hanging over his head that he's only ever spunked bazillions on teams almost guaranteed to win their respective leagues and failed to achieve anything in Europe away from with possibly the best Barcelona team of all time. Not a chance he'll go to Newcastle though, PSG has his name written all over it.

which his coaching, recruitment and style created....

[Lancasterclaret]

Anyone who watches kids football knows a good coach can make all the difference between how a team plays

To pretend that the great coaches of today are not great coaches because they have spent money is bonkers

I'd love my kids to be coached by the next Guardiola or Klopp!

[claretonthecoast1882]

Anyone who watches kids football knows a good coach can make all the difference between how a team plays

To pretend that the great coaches of today are not great coaches because they have spent money is bonkers

I'd love my kids to be coached by the next Guardiola or Klopp!

Yes but you are their agent and are thinking of the signing on fees

[Rileybobs]

So you think all these top managers can easily operate on a shoestring if required, and make a success of it?

On the basis that they are superior coaches, motivators and man-managers, yes.

[Darthlaw]

which his coaching, recruitment and style created....

Undoubtedly Pep created the 'tiki taka' style and (similar to Wenger) played some beautiful football. It does help though when a certain Lionel Messi is sat there waiting to go through prime years of his career. Let's not pretend Pep played a part in his recruitment.

I'm not detracting from Pep's record, it's undoubtable. He will, however, always have it levelled that he is a chequebook manager until he proves otherwise with a team who aren't almost guaranteed winners already with an extra half billion quid sprinkled over them.

[Jakubclaret]

So you think all these top managers can easily operate on a shoestring if required, and make a success of it?

It’s something we will never know but I’d sure as hell like to find out, nobody can say they could or couldn’t because it’s likely it’ll never happen so it’s all noise one way or the other with no real substance.

[Jakubclaret]

Anyone who watches kids football knows a good coach can make all the difference between how a team plays

To pretend that the great coaches of today are not great coaches because they have spent money is bonkers

I'd love my kids to be coached by the next Guardiola or Klopp!

It’s bonkers to think the other way IMO, money often is the catalyst for success without it you don’t have the success or the titles, it’s a major influence having that ability of personnel at your disposal to action the sort of coaching or the style of play you want to put into place.

[KRBFC]

Undoubtedly Pep created the 'tiki taka' style and (similar to Wenger) played some beautiful football. It does help though when a certain Lionel Messi is sat there waiting to go through prime years of his career. Let's not pretend Pep played a part in his recruitment.

I'm not detracting from Pep's record, it's undoubtable. He will, however, always have it levelled that he is a chequebook manager until he proves otherwise with a team who aren't almost guaranteed winners already with an extra half billion quid sprinkled over them.

He formed coached and turned Barcelona into likely the best club side I've ever seen. He made some bald decision when he took over too, replacing Deco Ronaldinho and big stars with players he brought through from his time with the Barca B team. City have good players, Pep made them better players and a better team. Lets not pretend it's all about the players because it isn't, the best coaches get the very best out of top players. Pep's side played the best football I've ever seen in England, I never thought it was possible for a side to dominate possession like Pep's did a couple of years ago. Benitez is a good manager, he isn't doing that regardless of funds given to spend.

[Sproggy]

Benitez transfer spend at Everton: 1.8 million

[Rileybobs]

So you think all these top managers can easily operate on a shoestring if required, and make a success of it?

Here’s a question, if Sean Dyche left Burnley would you be happy if we appointed Guardiola?

[Jakubclaret]

Benitez transfer spend at Everton: 1.8 million

Did well with Townsend & gray Everton can blow lots of teams out of the water with wages.

[claret2018]

He formed coached and turned Barcelona into likely the best club side I've ever seen. He made some bald decision when he took over too, replacing Deco Ronaldinho and big stars with players he brought through from his time with the Barca B team. City have good players, Pep made them better players and a better team. Lets not pretend it's all about the players because it isn't, the best coaches get the very best out of top players. Pep's side played the best football I've ever seen in England, I never thought it was possible for a side to dominate possession like Pep's did a couple of years ago. Benitez is a good manager, he isn't doing that regardless of funds given to spend.

Fabulous typo

[Spijed]

Here’s a question, if Sean Dyche left Burnley would you be happy if we appointed Guardiola?

Only if we had a decent budget.

With the way he's chopped and changed defenders since being at city I dont think that would work with lesser players.

Because his style relies on playing out from the back, rather than being solid as a total back five I couldn't see how he'd make players like Ben Mee be more comfortable with the ball in very tight areas.

Those type of players cost money, far more than the market we shop in.

That's why I Don't think his style could ever work at the bottom of the table club because of the technical inferiority of players at the bottom end of the prem.

Teams like Fulham and Norwich tried and have so far failed when trying to play out from the back in the way Man City do.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Only if we had a decent budget.

With the way he's chopped and changed defenders since being at city I dont think that would work with lesser players.

Because his style relies on playing out from the back, rather than being solid as a total back five I couldn't see how he'd make players like Ben Mee be more comfortable with the ball in very tight areas.

Those type of players cost money, far more than the market we shop in.

That's why I Don't think his style could ever work at the bottom of the table club because of the technical inferiority of players at the bottom end of the prem.

Teams like Fulham and Norwich tried and have so far failed when trying to play out from the back in the way Man City do.

An elite manager would get this team ticking. It wouldn’t be Man City style football but he would get the best out of the players.

Pep is arguably one of the best ever, he doesn’t need to slum it at the bottom of tables because he is a winner

[Darthlaw]

He formed coached and turned Barcelona into likely the best club side I've ever seen. He made some bold decisions when he took over too, replacing Deco Ronaldinho and big stars with players he brought through from his time with the Barca B team.

He took Pedro and Busquets, of note. Already there were Puyol, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Henry and Yaya Toure to name a few.

City have good players, Pep made them better players and a better team. Lets not pretend it's all about the players because it isn't, the best coaches get the very best out of top players. Pep's side played the best football I've ever seen in England, I never thought it was possible for a side to dominate possession like Pep's did a couple of years ago. Benitez is a good manager, he isn't doing that regardless of funds given to spend.

A few points here.

The city team he inherited were English title winners. He's sprinkled half a billion on them and they are... English title winners. The best football is arguable. Klopp's 'rock and roll' football is great but I'd say Arsenal in Wenger's successful era were the best to watch. That's all down to opinion of course, though.

Benitez is a good example though - He took an average Liverpool side, not doing much at the time and won the champions league with them. He took a Valencia side and broke the dominance of Real and Barca. He even had success with Napoli.

Klopp had Mainz, Jose had Porto, Ferguson Aberdeen, etc.

Guardiola will always have Barcelona as the pinnacle but will never get away from the doubters until he does something with a team not nailed on with the benefit of a chequebook. Not that he probably cares, mind.

[KRBFC]

He took Pedro and Busquets, of note. Already there were Puyol, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Henry and Yaya Toure to name a few.



A few points here.

The city team he inherited were English title winners. He's sprinkled half a billion on them and they are... English title winners. The best football is arguable. Klopp's 'rock and roll' football is great but I'd say Arsenal in Wenger's successful era were the best to watch. That's all down to opinion of course, though.

Pique from Man United for pennies too, he got rid of a lot of players to form that Barcelona side into a phenomenal side. He coached and turned that side into what it was, not giving him credit for that is bizarre.

The City side he inherited were massively on the decline, they finished 4th in the league before he arrived. 2nd the year before that and scraped a league title 3 years before he arrived. He absolutely did not inherit a league winning side, it was 3 years on from that Aguero last minute goal.

They were factually on the decline, 1st then 2nd then 4th. That side were old as shite too and no matter who came in, they desperately needed new signings. Sagna and Zabaleta were the right backs (32 and 33). left back Kolorov and Clichy both in their 30s. They had 35 year old Demichellis in central defence. The only ounce of youth were KDB and Sterling.

He took a year to mould that side, then he won the title with over 100 points and probably the best ever English club side. broke records along the way, 106 goals and 100 points. They were ridiculously good. He coached Sterling and KDB into world beaters.

That old City side HAD to spend money regardless of who was manager, the difference is, very few managers are capable of spending that money and producing that level of a team. Coaching to improve individuals, the style to blow teams away. You see very very few managers capable of that. Benitez/Mancini/Conte/Emery are very good managers, non have come close to that level. He had the fullbacks playing central midfield, 75% possession against everyone, I've never seen a more dominant side.

[KRBFC]

City are genuinely the only side I don't think we have a chance against and it's not all because of the money spent, it's the ruthless dominant style they are coached to play. They go for the neck and Pep demands they don't let up. We wouldn't get a 3-3 draw against a Pep side at Etihad like we did with Mancini

[Vegas Claret]

Pep is no doubt a great coach, but I personally find his teams have worn me down to the point of utter boredom. I go out of my way not to watch a City game, watching a team (as good as they are) put together with endless amounts of money is not what I enjoy, it's ultra noncompetitive in their matches against 95% of teams they play. Compare Pep's teams to Klopp's teams - there is only one style I would pay to watch

[Darthlaw]

Pique from Man United for pennies too, he got rid of a lot of players to form that Barcelona side into a phenomenal side. He coached and turned that side into what it was, not giving him credit for that is bizarre.

The City side he inherited were massively on the decline, they finished 4th in the league before he arrived. 2nd the year before that and scraped a league title 3 years before he arrived. He absolutely did not inherit a league winning side,

That old City side HAD to spend money regardless of who was manager, the difference is, very few managers are capable of spending that money and producing that level of a team. Coaching to improve individuals, the style to blow teams away. You see very very few managers capable of that. Benitez/Mancini/Conte/Emery are very good managers, non have come close to that level. He had the fullbacks playing central midfield, 75% possession against everyone, I've never seen a more dominant side.

From the top:

Not once have I not given him credit for the brand of football. Merely I'm not being revisionist, giving him credit for recruiting the likes of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta (three of the best players in the world at the time).

Admittedly I thought he had inherited the title winning City side, I'm confusing it with him inheriting the treble winning Bayern side. Nevertheless, he took a side with Aguero, Sterling, Silva, KDB, Kompany, Hart (who was not broken at the time) and splashed a cheeky £170m to win... nothing. Not to worry, nothing a further £255 million wouldnt sort to win the league the next year.

£420 million should buy most teams a title, let alone ones already with the players already at the club. It should definitely buy a team capable of bossing matches when you keep throwing money at it.

You have omitted one manager in your analysis though (who have 'not come close to that level')... A certain Mr Klopp. Given he has done it on a shoestring, with teams in less than favourable situations, coached players to be worldbeaters and won the European cup - he's not only one of the managers capable of doing Pep's job... He would be better!

All irrelevant though as neither will be at St James park any time soon.

[KRBFC]

From the top:

Not once have I not given him credit for the brand of football. Merely I'm not being revisionist, giving him credit for recruiting the likes of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta (three of the best players in the world at the time).

Admittedly I thought he had inherited the title winning City side, I'm confusing it with him inheriting the treble winning Bayern side. Nevertheless, he took a side with Aguero, Sterling, Silva, KDB, Kompany, Hart (who was not broken at the time) and splashed a cheeky £170m to win... nothing. Not to worry, nothing a further £255 million wouldnt sort to win the league the next year.

£420 million should buy most teams a title, let alone ones already with the players already at the club. It should definitely buy a team capable of bossing matches when you keep throwing money at it.

You have omitted one manager in your analysis though (who have 'not come close to that level')... A certain Mr Klopp. Given he has done it on a shoestring, with teams in less than favourable situations, coached players to be worldbeaters and won the European cup - he's not only one of the managers capable of doing Pep's job... He would be better!

All irrelevant though as neither will be at St James park any time soon.

Sterling and KDB were meh when Pep arrived compared to what he coached them into. Silva played his best football under Pep, was a decent player before but nothing like the Pep Silva. He didn't have the players at the club already, he turned them into that. You look at KDB recently as a world class player but forget what he was when Pep arrived. That's what coaches do, they improve individuals and mould them to fit the team. £170m on an old old side who scraped 4th place into the best side the country has ever seen, 106 goals and 100 points.

I omitted Klopp because I think he's one of the very few capable of matching Pep. As for doing it better? I think they play opposite styles, Klopp on a shoestring? he's spent over half a billion quid on transfers since he's been at Liverpool. The Dortmund titles were good but Dortmund were a good side before he arrived and he had brilliant young players coming through. I'm sure Sven Mislintat brought in all the players at Dortmund until he left for Arsenal. Klopp still had to coach them and mould them into the team so he deserves huge credit (I could just say ''he had Robert Lewandowski/Mats Hummels and give him no credit for coaching them into what they became, like you did Pep).

[Bordeauxclaret]

What was De Bruyne like before he was managed by Pep?

[claret2018]

I haven’t read this thread because life’s too short, but all this paper talk of Lampard coming in seems like great news for us.

If they sack Bruce and replace him with a comparative rank-amateur then relegation seems to be nailed on for them.

[Darthlaw]

Pep - Took Treble winning Bayern and won domestic honors. Signed Klopp's best players to keep Bayern at the top.

Took 4th place Citeh (champions three years earlier)Had De Bruyne, Sterling, Silva, Aguero, Kompany and spent £420m to win a title. Currently a net spend of £500m and has won 3 league titles as his headline.

Klopp - Took 13th placed Borussia signed Hummels, Lewandowski, Pizczek, Reus, Kagawa and made them look like world beaters. Wrestled dominence from Bayern until Bayern (and Pep) nicked all his best players.

Took Liverpool who had finished 4th the previous year and not won the title in an eternity. Had players like Coutinho, Benteke and Jon Flanagan (I tried to pick the best). Has a net spend of £100m (20% that of Pep) and has won the champions league and the PL. Has also created world class players out of VVD, Salah and Mane.

Overall, if you want to convince me with Pep let me know about the time he won something with a team not expected to win it.

It's been asked above what would folk think if Dyche went and Pep replaced him. Given the above, I'd feel a lot more comfortable with Klopp.

[KRBFC]

Pep - Took Treble winning Bayern and won domestic honors. Signed Klopp's best players to keep Bayern at the top.

Took 4th place Citeh (champions three years earlier)Had De Bruyne, Sterling, Silva, Aguero, Kompany and spent £420m to win a title. Currently a net spend of £500m and has won 3 league titles as his headline.

Klopp - Took 13th placed Borussia signed Hummels, Lewandowski, Pizczek, Reus, Kagawa and made them look like world beaters. Wrestled dominence from Bayern until Bayern (and Pep) nicked all his best players.

Took Liverpool who had finished 4th the previous year and not won the title in an eternity. Had players like Coutinho, Benteke and Jon Flanagan (I tried to pick the best). Has a net spend of £100m (20% that of Pep) and has won the champions league and the PL. Has also created world class players out of VVD, Salah and Mane.

Overall, if you want to convince me with Pep let me know about the time he won something with a team not expected to win it.

It's been asked above what would folk think if Dyche went and Pep replaced him. Given the above, I'd feel a lot more comfortable with Klopp.

So we are giving credit to Klopp for developing VVD etc but we aren't affording Pep the same luxury with Sterling? makes sense!
We are just remembering KDB since Pep and giving Pep zero credit for developing him into likely the best midfielder in the world?

Pep did not spend £420m to win a title. FAKE NEWS
Just 3 league titles in 5 years? sounds easy that!
First manager in England to win domestic treble.
First manager to 100 points, 106 goals, highest ever number of wins in a season, highest GD ever, most consecutive league wins.
Won 5/6 Carabao cups.

The best managers don't need to win something with a team not expected to win, that's why they're at the top clubs.

Sounds like an incredibly biased argument to me with a bunch of fake news facts.

[Paul Waine]

I haven’t read this thread because life’s too short, but all this paper talk of Lampard coming in seems like great news for us.

If they sack Bruce and replace him with a comparative rank-amateur then relegation seems to be nailed on for them.

Hang on there, 2018. What are you doing posting something about Newcastle? If you'd read the rest of the posts on this page you'd have realised that the discussion now is about whether Guardiola is a good manager, or something like that. I guess we will find out, again, at the weekend.

UTC

[Darthlaw]

So we are giving credit to Klopp for developing VVD etc but we aren't affording Pep the same luxury with Sterling? makes sense!
We are just remembering KDB since Pep and giving Pep zero credit for developing him into likely the best midfielder in the world?

No, we're saying KDB and Sterling were already there. Your response is that 'Pep made them brilliant' to argue the team he inherited wasnt actually that great.

When Klopp starts with mince like John Flanagan and his second best player is Benteke, it shows the disparity from the man who inherited KDB, Sterling, Aguero, Yaya Toure, Kompany et al.

Pep did not spend £420m to win a title. FAKE NEWS
Just 3 league titles in 5 years? sounds easy that!

First manager in England to win domestic treble.
Won 5/6 Carabao cups.

The best managers don't need to win something with a team not expected to win, that's why they're at the top clubs.

Sounds like an incredibly biased argument to me with a bunch of fake news facts.

Quoting Transfermarkt: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manches ... verein/281
16/17 he spent £193.5m, 17/18 he spent £285.75m so you're right he actually spent £479.25 million to win his first title at Citeh. Thanks for pointing out my error.

As for domestic treble and carabao cups... you best chuck in the charity shields and womens leagues they've won too. Using League cup wins to justify over a billion spent would certainly suggest bias but it aint from me, pal.

Anyway I'm bored now. I've said Pep is an excellent manager but will always have the doubt and I've shown why.

You let me know when he does something surprising - Moving to PSG next, to cakewalk another league, won't be it.

Back to why neither will sign for Newcastle, anyway.

[KRBFC]

No, we're saying KDB and Sterling were already there. Your response is that 'Pep made them brilliant' to argue the team he inherited wasnt actually that great.

When Klopp starts with mince like John Flanagan and his second best player is Benteke, it shows the disparity from the man who inherited KDB, Sterling, Aguero, Yaya Toure, Kompany et al.



Quoting Transfermarkt: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manches ... verein/281
16/17 he spent £193.5m, 17/18 he spent £285.75m so you're right he actually spent £479.25 million to win his first title at Citeh. Thanks for pointing out my error.

As for domestic treble and carabao cups... you best chuck in the charity shields and womens leagues they've won too. Using League cup wins to justify over a billion spent would certainly suggest bias but it aint from me, pal.

Anyway I'm bored now. I've said Pep is an excellent manager but will always have the doubt and I've shown why.

You let me know when he does something surprising - Moving to PSG next, to cakewalk another league, won't be it.

Back to why neither will sign for Newcastle, anyway.

Benteke has never been Liverpools 2nd best player, so we're only mentioning net spend to support Klopp? seems unbiased to me

[Jakubclaret]

Hang on there, 2018. What are you doing posting something about Newcastle? If you'd read the rest of the posts on this page you'd have realised that the discussion now is about whether Guardiola is a good manager, or something like that. I guess we will find out, again, at the weekend.

UTC

Could be millions of (£) reasons you could be right but remember it’s all about the coaching & the other attributes the top managers offer.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... cy-meeting

Interesting development and no shock City stood alongside Newcastle here.

[CFS]

The sponsorship deals will be the reason they spend 190m in January and the rumoured 500m in summer. City did the same covering it up with fake sponsorship deals

[Spijed]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... cy-meeting

Interesting development and no shock City stood alongside Newcastle here.

You can guarantee that in years to come Newcastle will have global revenues to rival Man U. and Liverpool, as though they have a world wide fanbase to match.

In reality it'll just be their new owners pumping money into the club to get around FFP, not growth on an epic scale - just like Man City.

[Spijed]

Howe being linked with the managers job.

[claret2018]

Howe being linked with the managers job.

Further good news for us imo

[Billy Balfour]

Palace fans.

https://twitter.com/ed_aarons/status/14 ... 4728653825