AIScout deal frozen by Premier League

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:51 am

Premier League clubs voted on Monday to impose a temporary freeze on any of them signing commercial and sponsorship deals with businesses that have links to their club's owners.

This is in relation to concerns raised that Newcastle's new owners could sign deals with Saudi state-owned companies.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... 3Xz81XYKAc

gawthorpe_view · Post by **gawthorpe_view** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:02 am

...and Manchester City abstained.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:03 am

And this is suddenly an issue?

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:18 am

I'm not sure what is "frozen" for us? I don't know if AIScout actually sponsor the club in any way that provides us with any kind of liquidity or funds?

I'm also not sure that even if that were the case these rules have (or even could) be applied retrospectively. This would surely fall foul of some kind of law.

The story is true but the implication that something is now "frozen" for us seems wide of the mark to me.

Sproggy · Post by **Sproggy** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:31 am

If it's being applied retrospectively then Man City just ceased to exist.

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:33 am

A big jump to go from a temp ban on Newcastle sponsorships that could be linked to the club for lucrative overinflated sponsorship deals that would allow them to circumnavigate FFP and our work with AIScout...or am I missing something?

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:40 am

Ashley got out of Njcastle just in time. Sports Direct plastered all over the stadium.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:09 am

I think this is to stop the owners pouring money into the club. I don't see why it would impact deals the other way where clubs are paying a connected company to provide a service.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:15 am

We’re we about to sign a deal with AI Scout? It’s the only way this news could possibly impact us.

claptrappers_union · Post by **claptrappers_union** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:34 am

martin_p wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:15 am
We’re we about to sign a deal with AI Scout? It’s the only way this news could possibly impact us.

No, I just made the topic 'Clickbaity'... the point remains that if AiScout was to invest in the club, they wouldn't be able to at the moment.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:48 am

Good thread. Thanks for starting it.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:54 am

Strange how this is suddenly important.

The big clubs are running scared

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:59 am

evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:54 am
Strange how this is suddenly important.

The big clubs are running scared

Chelski and Mercenary City not wanting someone adapting their business model?

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:03 am

Absolutely - the self-styled most competitive league in the world is trying to shut up shop. Brilliant.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:22 am

This sounds like an attack on one club. That can't be right.

Presumably if you were the Saudis having bought the club with certain rules in place now finding the rules changed must be more then annoying. I wonder what they'll do?

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:24 am

My heart bleeds for them.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:35 am

Hipper wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:22 am
This sounds like an attack on one club. That can't be right.

Presumably if you were the Saudis having bought the club with certain rules in place now finding the rules changed must be more then annoying. I wonder what they'll do?

Based on their current mode of operations?

Drone strike probably

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:50 am

Hipper wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:22 am
This sounds like an attack on one club. That can't be right.

Presumably if you were the Saudis having bought the club with certain rules in place now finding the rules changed must be more then annoying. I wonder what they'll do?

Well if any of the decision makers get invited to a hotel by these probably best not going

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:54 am

The Saudis will love them to bits....

Loyalclaret · Post by **Loyalclaret** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:17 am

At times like this, you've just got to think - who can afford the best lawyers

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:37 pm

claptrappers_union wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:34 am
No, I just made the topic 'Clickbaity'... the point remains that if AiScout was to invest in the club, they wouldn't be able to at the moment.

It's great to know that AIScout is making so much money that they can be thinking of become a sponsor of Burnley.

How many $billions is AIScout worth these days?

UTC

dibraidio · Post by **dibraidio** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:50 pm

Paul Waine wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:37 pm
It's great to know that AIScout is making so much money that they can be thinking of become a sponsor of Burnley.

How many $billions is AIScout worth these days?

UTC

According to the AiScout website it's still in testing so my guess would be it's making a loss as it has no customers.

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:55 pm

It's only in place for a month to allow for further discussion. Legally it might not be enforceable apparently. I suspect its been put in place for 2 reasons. 1. To stop the Saudis suddenly sponsoring a seat for £50m. 2. To ensure any further sponsorship dealings are met with high scrutiny and prices are not artificially inflated (which is I think what City were accused of)

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:57 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:35 am
Based on their current mode of operations?

Drone strike probably

Sproggy · Post by **Sproggy** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:16 pm

Roosterbooster wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:55 pm
It's only in place for a month to allow for further discussion. Legally it might not be enforceable apparently. I suspect its been put in place for 2 reasons. 1. To stop the Saudis suddenly sponsoring a seat for £50m. 2. To ensure any further sponsorship dealings are met with high scrutiny and prices are not artificially inflated (which is I think what City were accused of)

City "negotiate" humongous long term stadium/training ground/car park/toilets deals with sponsors with absolutely no connection to their owner, no sir, none whatsoever, then despite there being zero interest from other parties, somehow manage to renegotiate them every year for even more money.

Etihad sponsor them for hundreds of millions, despite losing over a billion last year. It makes you wonder how they can afford it.

They comply with FFP though, which is all that matters.

Somethingfishy · Post by **Somethingfishy** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:58 pm

I think (as has been alluded to) it is to stop clubs circumventing FFP by pumping money in via the self sponsorship route. One has to imagine that it is going forward rather than looking at current deals otherwise Manchester City have a massive black hole in their finances. Leicester too would be in trouble.
It is morally correct from a competition perspective to do this but you have to wonder about the timing. Just as Newcastle were about to splash the cash via this route the other clubs try and pull the plug. I'm sure they will find a way.

Sleeping Cat · Post by **Sleeping Cat** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:14 pm

claptrappers_union wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:34 am
No, I just made the topic 'Clickbaity'... the point remains that if AiScout was to invest in the club, they wouldn't be able to at the moment.

I don't see how AIScout were ever going to invest in the club when the club has already invested in AIScout. One of the first actions ALK did, out of the clubs bank balance of course.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:54 pm

Sleeping Cat wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:14 pm
I don't see how AIScout were ever going to invest in the club when the club has already invested in AIScout. One of the first actions ALK did, out of the clubs bank balance of course.

ALK acquired an interest in AIScout before they acquired 84% of Burnley.

Based on responses to some earlier posts this thread may shortly be locked and offending posts deleted.

UTC

Sleeping Cat · Post by **Sleeping Cat** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:15 pm

Paul Waine wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:54 pm
ALK acquired an interest in AIScout before they acquired 84% of Burnley.

Based on responses to some earlier posts this thread may shortly be locked and offending posts deleted.

UTC

And since they acquired 84% of Burnley they have invested more into AIScout via Burnley. This will be reflected in the accounts when they eventually come to pass.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:44 pm

Sleeping Cat wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:15 pm
And since they acquired 84% of Burnley they have invested more into AIScout via Burnley. This will be reflected in the accounts when they eventually come to pass.

Interesting. So, what is the nature of Burnley's investment in AIScout? Is anything reported by AIScout on Companies House?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:15 pm

Paul Waine wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:44 pm
Interesting. So, what is the nature of Burnley's investment in AIScout? Is anything reported by AIScout on Companies House?

I thought it was widely known that we’d invested in it.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:44 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:15 pm
I thought it was widely known that we’d invested in it.

Hi CT, can you point me to where this was announced?

I know we all saw the announcement of ALK Capital's "strategic investment" in AiScout (and also PlayerLens) in Aug 2020. This was a few weeks before it was confirmed ALK were one of the possible acquirers of the club.

I know we all saw the announcement that Burnley would "partner with" AiScout using the AiScout app in the search for new (young) talent. I think this was first announced in Jan this year, after ALK bought the club.

I don't recall seeing anything that said BFC had invested in AiScout. Maybe it's a "senior moment" for me.

UTC

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:02 pm

Similarly, I'd not seen anything saying the club had invested and a quick search online doesn't show up anything.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:14 pm

Sleeping Cat wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:15 pm
And since they acquired 84% of Burnley they have invested more into AIScout via Burnley. This will be reflected in the accounts when they eventually come to pass.

aggi wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:02 pm
Similarly, I'd not seen anything saying the club had invested and a quick search online doesn't show up anything.

I'm more inclined to believe the post from Sleeping Cat than a quick search online

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:07 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:14 pm
I'm more inclined to believe the post from Sleeping Cat than a quick search online

Fair enough. I have no idea who Sleeping Cat is so can't really judge how reliable their information is.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:09 pm

aggi wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:07 pm
Fair enough. I have no idea who Sleeping Cat is so can't really judge how reliable their information is.

More that he seems to have the same info I've picked up locally.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:17 pm

Sleeping Cat wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:15 pm
And since they acquired 84% of Burnley they have invested more into AIScout via Burnley. This will be reflected in the accounts when they eventually come to pass.

Hi Sleeping Cat,

I've done a little bit of digging since earlier. The digging has taken me to AiScout's LinkedIn profile. There's some good stuff there.

I didn't know - and I haven't seen it mentioned on this mb - that AiScout and Burnley were featured on Click, the BBC's technology programme in August.

This link should work: https://lnkd.in/d8NBZuNF

Maybe this edition of Click is also still available on iPlayer.

I now have a pretty good understanding of how AiScout works. It appears that they can identify some promising young footballers.

We all know that AiScout is working with BFC. We know that ALK have invested in AiScout. We've discussed that BFC may also have invested in AiScout. I'm going to stick my neck out and say that this is a misunderstanding, BFC have not invested in AiScout. BFC are just one of several Premier League teams, and other football teams, that is partnering with AiScout. Chelsea, Arsenal and Watford are some of the others. Their LinkedIn site also mentioned a youngster who had made his debut for Bournemouth after being identified by AiScout.

Anyway, Good stuff.

UTC

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:37 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:09 pm
More that he seems to have the same info I've picked up locally.

Ok, I guess we'll see what comes out. I just struggle to see what the benefit of Burnley investing in them rather than ALK is (from ALK's point of view).

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:49 pm

aggi wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:37 pm
Ok, I guess we'll see what comes out. I just struggle to see what the benefit of Burnley investing in them rather than ALK is (from ALK's point of view).

Hi aggi, can I ask you to take a look at AiScout's profile on LinkedIn - I'm assume you've got access to LinkedIn.

See above my post above yours. Interested if you reach similar conclusions to me.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:50 am

I'd agree that it seems unlikely that an investment from Burnley makes sense, they want to deal with multiple teams and taking a tiny equity share doesn't do much for Burnley. I suspect some of AI Scout's marketing may be a little open to interpretation, I reckon it may be that AI Scout identifed them and they got a contract but the latter isn't necessarily due to the former (the Bournemouth lad makes no mention of it for instance), just proof that the concept works.

Looking at Comapnies House ALK have a tiny investment in non-voting shares. More non-voting shares (~ £180k) were issued in July so it's possible that BFC or ALK invested at that point. I still struggle to see that Burnley would be buying the shares though.

Sleeping Cat · Post by **Sleeping Cat** » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:14 pm

Paul Waine wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:17 pm
Hi Sleeping Cat,

I've done a little bit of digging since earlier. The digging has taken me to AiScout's LinkedIn profile. There's some good stuff there.

I didn't know - and I haven't seen it mentioned on this mb - that AiScout and Burnley were featured on Click, the BBC's technology programme in August.

This link should work: https://lnkd.in/d8NBZuNF

Maybe this edition of Click is also still available on iPlayer.

I now have a pretty good understanding of how AiScout works. It appears that they can identify some promising young footballers.

We all know that AiScout is working with BFC. We know that ALK have invested in AiScout. We've discussed that BFC may also have invested in AiScout. I'm going to stick my neck out and say that this is a misunderstanding, BFC have not invested in AiScout. BFC are just one of several Premier League teams, and other football teams, that is partnering with AiScout. Chelsea, Arsenal and Watford are some of the others. Their LinkedIn site also mentioned a youngster who had made his debut for Bournemouth after being identified by AiScout.

Anyway, Good stuff.

UTC

Thanks for this Paul, It's very interesting and certainly something that can help identify potential talent. I have it on good authority that we have paid some money to AI Scout thought I'm not sure what for. Maybe the accounts will show this, though that is a long time to wait. Let's hope the whatever we have agreed with AIScout, it returns something positive.