Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Considering Newcastle who are one of the current bottom 3 will probably go for broke come January (as they can afford to) we have to look at 2 teams above us to drag into the battle come after xmas period. The surprise is Brentford 8 clear of us with a game in hand and Watford after today 6 clear - they will come back but back far enough - not sure. This is the 2nd season in a row our start has been particularly weak and considering we are always considered possible relegation fodder in this league we cannot afford these starts. Two wins back to back can change things though and pretty quickly and hopefully that comes quickly and just gives us some breathing space we dont want every game to seem a pressure 6 pointer. Great point today as mid week Southampton were very good.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Battling point but we never looked like getting the 3 points. In the past we would have secured all 3 points, but so many areas of our play when we have gone backwards with the lack of investment.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Apart from Palace who else has been spending money that means they have improved their squad from last season in the bottom half of the table?warksclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:13 pmbut so many areas of our play when we have gone backwards with the lack of investment.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
We don’t look capable of winning many games
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
It’s not just last season for us though we haven’t really improved the squad for several seasons which is hurting us as we have an old squad as it is.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
I know we’re all guilty of looking at other teams, but history will tell you that 38 points generally keeps you in the division. Some seasons it’s considerably less, this season this may not be the case. But I’m much more concerned about how we’re going to get these 38 points than which other teams will be scrapping around at the bottom.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Apart from one moment of quality, by Cornet, to get the 2nd equaliser, we were awful.
Worst performance of the season by a mile.
Worst performance of the season by a mile.
Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
I thought Watford would be dragged in pretty soon, they've just thrashed Everton at Goodison
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Isn't the real point (apols for the pun) that most of the games this season we've played well for little return. I look at the point today as something more positive that for the first time this season we've played poorly yet still come away with something.Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:30 pmApart from one moment of quality, by Cornet, to get the 2nd equaliser, we were awful.
Worst performance of the season by a mile.
Maybe the tide is turning....a win against Brentford and perhaps we'll all begin to believe again....
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
We were poor again today, quite raggy to get a point. We are going to be there, or there abouts all season.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
I'm not being funny here or trying to be overly wearing the claret-tinted glasses, but when you say 'again we've been poor ' it's as if every week we've played badly. Do you really think we've been so consistently poor?claptrappers_union wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:50 pmWe were poor again today, quite raggy to get a point. We are going to be there, or there abouts all season.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
I didn't say we were consistently poor, but we were poor again - like we were against Brighton, Leeds and Norwich.
Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
I thought we were reasonable in parts, and on another would have (luckily) taken all of the points but for a defensive cock up. Southampton save for a couple of players look a pretty poor outfit too. It's clear we are struggling though, can we strengthen in January? Will we be cut adrift before then? Worrying but have to keep the faith.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
My worry if we strengthen in January is that we may well be the end of the window rather than the start. However good the signings are SD will not feel they are ready until late March/AprilNickBFC wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:59 pmI thought we were reasonable in parts, and on another would have (luckily) taken all of the points but for a defensive cock up. Southampton save for a couple of players look a pretty poor outfit too. It's clear we are struggling though, can we strengthen in January? Will we be cut adrift before then? Worrying but have to keep the faith.
Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Absolutely. You would hope, we can somehow make things happen early doors. This team and the manager need help.warksclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:04 pmMy worry if we strengthen in January is that we may well be the end of the window rather than the start. However good the signings are SD will not feel they are ready until late March/April
Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Like Cornet?warksclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:04 pmMy worry if we strengthen in January is that we may well be the end of the window rather than the start. However good the signings are SD will not feel they are ready until late March/April
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
We have four points from 9 games.
Yes we have been consistently poor this entire calendar year
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
We've won 4 times in 29 games, open your damn eyes
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
We had a crap start last season, some of you seem to forget that and explode in over reaction, calm yourselves down.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
And last season we won away at Liverool, Everton, Arsenal, Wolves, 12 massive points. We aren't doing that this season.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
I know it's a semantic argument but I don't think we've played all that poorly this season, but everyone else has played better.
It's like saying 'we're going backwards' when in truth we've taken two steps forward, but everyone else has taken five.
I watch other teams and most seem capable of doing something well just with varying degrees of consistency. Only one team look out and out worse than us and we drew with them at home.
Most seasons we eventually take our fate into our own hands and don't have to rely on other teams coming undone. I don't see that being the case this season, if we survive it will be by the skin of our teeth.
It's like saying 'we're going backwards' when in truth we've taken two steps forward, but everyone else has taken five.
I watch other teams and most seem capable of doing something well just with varying degrees of consistency. Only one team look out and out worse than us and we drew with them at home.
Most seasons we eventually take our fate into our own hands and don't have to rely on other teams coming undone. I don't see that being the case this season, if we survive it will be by the skin of our teeth.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Agree with this. We never sign players early Jan and when you account for Dyche’s 16 week bedding in period, it’s unlikely that any players we do sign will make a material impact.warksclaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:04 pmMy worry if we strengthen in January is that we may well be the end of the window rather than the start. However good the signings are SD will not feel they are ready until late March/April
I think we’ve got the players to stay up but appear stuck in a rut and since Dyche seems to want to persist with a striker that’s not scoring goals or adding much in terms of general play, I think we’re in trouble.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
We hoped Palace would get their appointment all wrong which early stages looks like they haven't. We hoped Brentford, Norwich and Watford would struggle early but only 1 has really (so far). We hoped Ashley would not sell Newcastle and that would keep them struggling and I suppose who knows they still might. Our established strikers except for Rochdale game are all out of form.
Just at the moment things are conspiring against us but we have to go head down and grind away and whatever will be, will be
Just at the moment things are conspiring against us but we have to go head down and grind away and whatever will be, will be
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Don't agree with that mate, apart from a 20 minute spell when they got up a real head of steam, we played reasonably well, defended OK and created several chances, even late on in the game. My only criticism is, the manager should have changed the formation sooner. From being in the stands you could tell just how much space the Saints had down our left hand side and they fully used it, thankfully not mortally as they missed some sitters. To me that performance was no worse than Brighton, Leeds, Everton where we played well for most of those games, but seem to have a crazy spell that costs us.Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:30 pmApart from one moment of quality, by Cornet, to get the 2nd equaliser, we were awful.
Worst performance of the season by a mile.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
We werent awful yesterday and Andreshotboots has it right. However I am almost resigning myself to going down this season now as 4 wins in the last 29 games and the lack of terrible teams in the PL this year mean I just cant see us recovering from where we are now to the extent we get past 3 teams. The only hope is we maybe find a way of accommodating Cornet (who has to stay fit) in forward positions whilst also giving Dwight freedom and somehow still keeping a solid framework across the pitch. Wood has to come good too. The lack of investment in our centre midfield overr the past 3 seasons is really hurting us now. I'm still hoping and prying but logic surely says it looks unlikely we\ll survive.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Belting post - summed up in a nutshell.NewClaret wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:56 pmAgree with this. We never sign players early Jan and when you account for Dyche’s 16 week bedding in period, it’s unlikely that any players we do sign will make a material impact.
I think we’ve got the players to stay up but appear stuck in a rut and since Dyche seems to want to persist with a striker that’s not scoring goals or adding much in terms of general play, I think we’re in trouble.
Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Norwich down
Burnley down
Newcastle will stay up with the money they have
Watford will stay up with the tinker man in charge
So it's one from Leeds, Southampton and Palace, I think Leeds will make the 3rd place up along with us and Norwich
For some reason our defense is a joke this season and with them being solid in the past that was a big reason why we've stayed up. Playing McNeil on the right doesn't work because he needs to chop back onto his other foot to whip in a ball, by doing this it invites defender's to take the ball off him or cover the forwards because its not a first time ball and they have more time, Cornet is on the wrong wing his game is to cut in and shoot he can't do that out wide left, I also feel Taylor's game is suffering without the cover of McNeil.
Burnley down
Newcastle will stay up with the money they have
Watford will stay up with the tinker man in charge
So it's one from Leeds, Southampton and Palace, I think Leeds will make the 3rd place up along with us and Norwich
For some reason our defense is a joke this season and with them being solid in the past that was a big reason why we've stayed up. Playing McNeil on the right doesn't work because he needs to chop back onto his other foot to whip in a ball, by doing this it invites defender's to take the ball off him or cover the forwards because its not a first time ball and they have more time, Cornet is on the wrong wing his game is to cut in and shoot he can't do that out wide left, I also feel Taylor's game is suffering without the cover of McNeil.
Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Rubbish on another day we could of conceded 4 or 5 it was woodwork and bad finishing that prevented it being that, this against a team that has scored only one goal at home this season so farAndreshotboots wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:45 amDon't agree with that mate, apart from a 20 minute spell when they got up a real head of steam, we played reasonably well, defended OK and created several chances, even late on in the game. My only criticism is, the manager should have changed the formation sooner. From being in the stands you could tell just how much space the Saints had down our left hand side and they fully used it, thankfully not mortally as they missed some sitters. To me that performance was no worse than Brighton, Leeds, Everton where we played well for most of those games, but seem to have a crazy spell that costs us.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
On another day we could have also scored 4 or 5, against a team who've just beaten Leeds, something that we've failed to do since their promotion.
Stats can be interpreted however you want. Myself, and all the other Clarets around me yesterday didn't come out of that stadium thinking we'd been awful, apart from that mad spell where they got their first goal, and far more importantly, neither did either manager who both commented it was a fair result.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
It's fine to have a different opinion and glad you enjoyed your away day.Andreshotboots wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:45 amDon't agree with that mate, apart from a 20 minute spell when they got up a real head of steam, we played reasonably well, defended OK and created several chances, even late on in the game. My only criticism is, the manager should have changed the formation sooner. From being in the stands you could tell just how much space the Saints had down our left hand side and they fully used it, thankfully not mortally as they missed some sitters. To me that performance was no worse than Brighton, Leeds, Everton where we played well for most of those games, but seem to have a crazy spell that costs us.
But that bad spell was terrible and it gives me nightmares thinking of it.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Highlights on the TV can be very misleading, but it looked like we have Cornet to thank for our point yesterday. He looks to be an all action player and can take his chances. This is what we need right now. Hopefully his knowledge of the Premiership and overall physical fitness will mean he can eventually play the full 90 minutes. Agree with the OP that it was a battling point, I know that games should not be classed as 'must win' but next Saturday's game is a big one now for us. We need to get our first home win since January and our first Prem win of the season now. We don't want to be in a position where we start to get cut off from the teams above us. Plenty for Dyche to think about this week.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
I’m a big believer that form is temporary, we’ve been on a shocking run and some big mistakes have been made to get us to this place; and some stinking luck along the way. I do think this endless sniping helps generate a feeling of doom and gloom on here that is not real. There is a lot more positivity coming out of the boardroom and I’m grateful for that. I think we have more than enough about us as a club to steer clear of relegation but the more fans bicker the less confident the crowd becomes and the more up tight the players become. It isn’t age that is killing us it’s fear. Our team ethic will win through. We will stay up.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
I'm not sure if you still go on from posts on here but the fans have been really supportive on the games with great vocal backing, especially at away games.elwaclaret wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:00 pmI’m a big believer that form is temporary, we’ve been on a shocking run and some big mistakes have been made to get us to this place; and some stinking luck along the way. I do think this endless sniping helps generate a feeling of doom and gloom on here that is not real. There is a lot more positivity coming out of the boardroom and I’m grateful for that. I think we have more than enough about us as a club to steer clear of relegation but the more fans bicker the less confident the crowd becomes and the more up tight the players become. It isn’t age that is killing us it’s fear. Our team ethic will win through. We will stay up.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
That is pretty much the point. You see a different thing on the games, so it remains, crisis what crisis? long may that continue because once that doom and gloom hits the place we are in trouble… and it can be fan created, just as it can come from any part of the club… we need to recognise the whole needs to be the whole on and off the field.Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:05 pmI'm not sure if you still go on from posts on here but the fans have been really supportive on the games with great vocal backing, especially at away games.
Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Calm down now, halfway by Christmas at least IMHO
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Thought Taylor was left high and dry lots of time in 2 v 1s. Not his fault.
But there is a strong case for 3 at the back when Mee is back if we expect Taylor, Lowt's pushing higher.
We are not far away just not quite there.
It will happen.
Cork was not his usual. Brownhill better in the middle.
SD really should have changed things Cork off for JGB or even Lennon
Keep the faith.
But there is a strong case for 3 at the back when Mee is back if we expect Taylor, Lowt's pushing higher.
We are not far away just not quite there.
It will happen.
Cork was not his usual. Brownhill better in the middle.
SD really should have changed things Cork off for JGB or even Lennon
Keep the faith.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Newcastle are very much in it. Tell me do you think world class players are going to join a club in a relegation battle with absolutely no hope of Champions a League football next season if they do stay up? City took a couple of years to get it sorted and Newcastle will be the same. It could take a season in the Championship first. And there is a limit to how much they can spend (albeit a big limit). I still think they are a relegation favourite despite their new found wealth.s6t9a2f3f wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:11 pmConsidering Newcastle who are one of the current bottom 3 will probably go for broke come January (as they can afford to) we have to look at 2 teams above us to drag into the battle come after xmas period. The surprise is Brentford 8 clear of us with a game in hand and Watford after today 6 clear - they will come back but back far enough - not sure. This is the 2nd season in a row our start has been particularly weak and considering we are always considered possible relegation fodder in this league we cannot afford these starts. Two wins back to back can change things though and pretty quickly and hopefully that comes quickly and just gives us some breathing space we dont want every game to seem a pressure 6 pointer. Great point today as mid week Southampton were very good.
Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Probably depends on 2 obvious things - how good and how much of a influence a new manager has and how quickly. Other obvious thing is can they keep key players like maxi and Wilson fit and playing. Regards January I was not looking at Mbappe and the likes but for argument sakes if big earners from other clubs are available (like say Barkley) on loans to end of season their wages won't deter Newcastle and IF the likes of us and Norwich look adrift come January 1-2 players like that might get them to 4th bottom come May.houseboy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:44 pmNewcastle are very much in it. Tell me do you think world class players are going to join a club in a relegation battle with absolutely no hope of Champions a League football next season if they do stay up? City took a couple of years to get it sorted and Newcastle will be the same. It could take a season in the Championship first. And there is a limit to how much they can spend (albeit a big limit). I still think they are a relegation favourite despite their new found wealth.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Dyche was performing miracles with a championship- at -best quality squad 3 years ago, and that squad has barely changed since then, aside from getting 3 years older.
Barnes, Jay, Cork, Johan and probably more haven’t looked like PL players for a while now. This season you can throw Wood into that mix as well.
We are desperate for a striker who can score goals. That should be our priority in January otherwise it’s a tight call between who will finish rock bottom out of us and Norwich.
Barnes, Jay, Cork, Johan and probably more haven’t looked like PL players for a while now. This season you can throw Wood into that mix as well.
We are desperate for a striker who can score goals. That should be our priority in January otherwise it’s a tight call between who will finish rock bottom out of us and Norwich.
Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
And what about the inability to keep clean sheets?claret2018 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:32 am
We are desperate for a striker who can score goals. That should be our priority in January otherwise it’s a tight call between who will finish rock bottom out of us and Norwich.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Southampton was one of our best performances of the season. We should have been 3 or 4 up in the first half hour. We would have won if Tarky hadn't made his error. OK we had a dodgy 15 mins - who doesn't? Defending in the second half was like our old selves. We're deep in the brown stuff at the moment but it's not all doom and gloom
Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Which implies, given our current appalling record in 2021, that we have gone backwards
Collins and Cornet look to be good investments but two players don't make a team
This ageing squad is now well past it's use by date as far as several players are concerned, plus others like Pope, Tarks and McNeil seem to be more error prone this season
We are certainly in the relegation scrap - most bookies have us third favourites and given the form of 2021 you can't argue with that
We have to somehow keep within the reaches of 16th/17th place come Jan, otherwise there will be few, if any, players looking to come here
Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Its a dilemma really, the 2 signings do look good but lets be realistic if we drop down we start next season without Tarks, Cornet (and then probably either or both McNeill and Pope). So it becomes a rebuild continuation whichever way we go.jojomk1 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:11 amWhich implies, given our current appalling record in 2021, that we have gone backwards
Collins and Cornet look to be good investments but two players don't make a team
This ageing squad is now well past it's use by date as far as several players are concerned, plus others like Pope, Tarks and McNeil seem to be more error prone this season
We are certainly in the relegation scrap - most bookies have us third favourites and given the form of 2021 you can't argue with that
We have to somehow keep within the reaches of 16th/17th place come Jan, otherwise there will be few, if any, players looking to come here
The other dilemma is the players out of contract come end of season if we are in a relegation dog fight what wages do you offer them ? do you offer them a premiership wage extension in say janauary for 12 months but come June that wage might drop 50% ? must be very difficult to judge.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
The Brentford game is massive. A win and we can move on, brimming with confidence.
Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Absolutely pal, do you think its become massive as well because we only drew with Norwich at home ? surely pre season when you looking at the fixture list for 38 plus potential points home games against the 3 promoted clubs must be high on the list to contribute against those 38 plus points ? Even if we draw Saturday thats 2/6 points against 2 newly promoted clubs at home.Billy Balfour wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:24 pmThe Brentford game is massive. A win and we can move on, brimming with confidence.
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
If Wood doesn’t start scoring regularly we’ll go down. Vydra has his positives but he’s simply not a regular goalscorer in the PL (in the Championship, probably). Time has caught up with Jay Rod and Barnes (similar issues in midfield). Unless of course we sign a striker in January. Unlikely ?
Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Perhaps we have found a new goal scorer in Maxwel Cornet to help Wood share the goals around. He's got 3 in 4 and no reason to think, injuries permitting that he won't get into double figures and beyond.SkiptonClaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:51 pmIf Wood doesn’t start scoring regularly we’ll go down. Vydra has his positives but he’s simply not a regular goalscorer in the PL (in the Championship, probably). Time has caught up with Jay Rod and Barnes (similar issues in midfield). Unless of course we sign a striker in January. Unlikely ?
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Re: Battling point but the bottom 3 looking vulnerable
Good points. Be interesting to watch though.s6t9a2f3f wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:25 amProbably depends on 2 obvious things - how good and how much of a influence a new manager has and how quickly. Other obvious thing is can they keep key players like maxi and Wilson fit and playing. Regards January I was not looking at Mbappe and the likes but for argument sakes if big earners from other clubs are available (like say Barkley) on loans to end of season their wages won't deter Newcastle and IF the likes of us and Norwich look adrift come January 1-2 players like that might get them to 4th bottom come May.