• Must win again Brentford?

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:33 pm**

Some will say that it is still early in the season, but given that we haven't won yet, and the home record is really poor, surely we simply have to end this hoodoo next week, otherwise it's going to be a long hard winter.

As much as I can't think of another manager more capable than Dyche of keeping this group of players up, I feel we'd be in real trouble without a welcome three points.

UTC!

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:36 pm**

I put on the other thread that it doesn't bear thinking that we could have played 10 games without a win. I dread to think how many teams have done that and survived.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:38 pm**

We’re picking up points now, that’s just one defeat in four, but find ourselves behind the curve. Not by a great deal, but we have passed up opportunities to win a number of our ‘winnable’ games this season so this puts a lot of pressure on the Brentford game.

It’s not a must win, but if we don’t win you do wonder where our 9 wins are going to come from.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:39 pm**

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:36 pm
I put on the other thread that it doesn't bear thinking that we could have played 10 games without a win. I dread to think how many teams have done that and survived.

Palace survived a few seasons ago after a very poor start, not sure it was 10 without a win though.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:39 pm**

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:36 pm
I put on the other thread that it doesn't bear thinking that we could have played 10 games without a win. I dread to think how many teams have done that and survived.

One or two may have done, but probably with a change of manager. We aren't going to do that, and nor should we, in my opinion, but we need to be playing much better in all departments for the results to come.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:40 pm**

9 wins seems unrealistic to me and almost unachievable. Is that 4 wins in our last 29 league games?

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:40 pm**

I think we’re still in with a great chance of staying up. But it will take a shift in something to sort our defence out. We’re not defending too badly, but we seem to concede 2 a game no matter what happens...

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:42 pm**

boatshed bill wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:39 pm
Palace survived a few seasons ago after a very poor start, not sure it was 10 without a win though.

Palace lost their first 7 games, but won their 8th against Chelsea.

In 2014/15 we got our first win in game number 11, but we all know how that season ended.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:42 pm**

Its not just a bad start though we had a very poor end to last season aswell. This form has been around for a long time now.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:43 pm**

Burnley have had 6 wins in the prem since January 2021… 6!! We are in big big bother

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:43 pm**

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:42 pm
Palace lost their first 7 games, but won their 8th against Chelsea.

In 2014/15 we got our first win in game number 11, but we all know how that season ended.

Yep, just checked.
They had 4 points from the first 11 games.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:44 pm**

I thought we were incredibly fortunate last season, 3 really poor sides below us and no fans in the ground/decisions enabled us to nick wins at Everton/Liverpool/Arsenal.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:46 pm**

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:44 pm
I thought we were incredibly fortunate last season, 3 really poor sides below us and no fans in the ground/decisions enabled us to nick wins at Everton/Liverpool/Arsenal.

The correct decisions, you mean?

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:48 pm**

Thats 12 games now without a win, and the home form has been really poor for a while

its not a must win, but we have to keep our performance levels up and then the wins will come

And we are still only a win away from escaping the relegation zone potentially

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:48 pm**

Paddy1882 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:43 pm
Burnley have had 6 wins in the prem since January 2021… 6!! We are in big big bother

Even with that really poor run we would average 32 points over a season. So I think it’s obvious that our form needs to improve to survive relegation. But it wouldn’t take the most miraculous improvement to do so.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:48 pm**

fidelcastro wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:46 pm
The correct decisions, you mean?

Correct decisions indeed, I never said they weren't correct.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:49 pm**

fidelcastro wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:46 pm
The correct decisions, you mean?

He’s right about there being three awful teams last season. There’s Norwich this season but, aside from that, struggling to suggest two more teams were likely to finish above. How many home wins have we had in 2021 ? Is it the one ?

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:50 pm**

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:48 pm
Correct decisions indeed, I never said they weren't correct.

Why mention them then?

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:50 pm**

fidelcastro wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:39 pm
One or two may have done, but probably with a change of manager. We aren't going to do that, and nor should we, in my opinion, but we need to be playing much better in all departments for the results to come.

That's what I find most concerning. The defence have been really, really poor this season, but the midfield have also been lacking, and the strikers haven't exactly been firing. Wood is woefully out of form again. The bright spark has undoubtedly been Cornet.

So yes, all departments need to improve. It that asking too much? Are too many of our players now on the decline? Or can Dyche turn it around again and find a different, more cohesive formula? I think we'll know much more next Saturday at 5pm.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:51 pm**

boatshed bill wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:39 pm
Palace survived a few seasons ago after a very poor start, not sure it was 10 without a win though.

That is true I think it was the manner of the defeats meaning the performances which was more startling, in our case the performances are bringing about draws & not just defeat after defeat which brings about hope & the rest around don't seem that much better than we are even though most have had a win.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:51 pm**

Seeing as we go to Chelsea afterwards no win after 11 games would leave us until mid-Nov before we could get our next chance, which would be Palace at home & that would probably be seen as a must win.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:51 pm**

fidelcastro wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:50 pm
Why mention them then?

Because they enabled us to win unlikely games away at Liverpool/Everton/Arsenal, read my post you boring mutt

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:51 pm**

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:44 pm
I thought we were incredibly fortunate last season, 3 really poor sides below us and no fans in the ground/decisions enabled us to nick wins at Everton/Liverpool/Arsenal.

Strange thing to say. So the lack of fans contributed to us winning games, but presumably didn’t contribute to us losing games? And ‘decisions’ (not sure what that even means) resulted in us winning games but not losing games?

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:52 pm**

SkiptonClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:49 pm
He’s right about there being three awful teams last season. There’s Norwich this season but, aside from that, struggling to suggest two more teams were likely to finish above. How many home wins have we had in 2021 ? Is it the one ?

No, there are three awful sides this season too.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:52 pm**

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:50 pm
That's what I find most concerning. The defence have been really, really poor this season, but the midfield have also been lacking, and the strikers haven't exactly been firing. Wood is woefully out of form again. The bright spark has undoubtedly been Cornet.

So yes, all departments need to improve. It that asking too much? Are too many of our players now on the decline? Or can Dyche turn it around again and find a different, more cohesive formula? I think we'll know much more next Saturday at 5pm.

I think that sums up the situation pretty well.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:52 pm**

I think Dyche has lost the dressing room. We are no longer hard to beat and the players look lack lustre nearly every game.

Difficult to see who we can beat in this league at the moment

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:53 pm**

a win against Brentford makes the point at Leicester and Southampton great points. It is a must win for me for confidence alone

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:54 pm**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:52 pm
I think Dyche has lost the dressing room. We are no longer hard to beat and the players look lack lustre nearly every game.

Difficult to see who we can beat in this league at the moment

What makes you suggest that Dyche has lost the dressing room?

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:54 pm**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:52 pm
I think Dyche has lost the dressing room.

We were having a sensible and reasonable discussion on here, Newcastle.

If you can't manage that, well, you know what to do.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:55 pm**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:52 pm
I think Dyche has lost the dressing room. We are no longer hard to beat and the players look lack lustre nearly every game.

Difficult to see who we can beat in this league at the moment

"Lost the dressing room", haven't heard that one for ages.

But I don't agree. I believe the core (you could say clique) of our first team have had it too easy for too long, no pressure to perform.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:55 pm**

Don't feed him.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:56 pm**

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:51 pm
Because they enabled us to win unlikely games away at Liverpool/Everton/Arsenal, read my post you boring mutt

I read it perfectly well. Decisions happen in every game.
I don't know why you've mentioned them, unless we got on the right side of some bad officiating.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:57 pm**

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:54 pm
We were having a sensible and reasonable discussion on here, Newcastle.

If you can't manage that, well, you know what to do.

You may not agree but our record over this year is absolutely shocking.

Under Dyche with worse starting elevens we have been able to grind out results, we are conceding goals for fun at the moment.

I can understand poor results/form but it is the lack of effort that makes me think he has lost the dressing room.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:57 pm**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:52 pm
I think Dyche has lost the dressing room. We are no longer hard to beat and the players look lack lustre nearly every game.

Difficult to see who we can beat in this league at the moment

Think it’s more that time has caught up with a number of the squad. Unfortunately we’re going to pay the price for not investing in younger players. Doesn’t help that we endlessly seem to give contract extensions to players in their 30’s and, in the case of Lennon, even re-sign them after (rightly) someone’s decision to get shut of them in the first place.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:57 pm**

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:54 pm
What makes you suggest that Dyche has lost the dressing room?

Aren't you aware, we have several body language experts on here?

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:58 pm**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:57 pm
You may not agree but our record over this year is absolutely shocking.

Under Dyche with worse starting elevens we have been able to grind out results, we are conceding goals for fun at the moment.

I can understand poor results/form but it is the lack of effort that makes me think he has lost the dressing room.

We are not lacking effort. We are lacking form and quality.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:58 pm**

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:51 pm
Strange thing to say. So the lack of fans contributed to us winning games, but presumably didn’t contribute to us losing games? And ‘decisions’ (not sure what that even means) resulted in us winning games but not losing games?

Well have we won since the fans have been back in? Look at the facts, currently the fans being absent had no bearing on our home form. It's factual atm, have your opinion but you can't argue with facts we can't win with or without fans at home.

The decision part is specific to 2 wins we got last season, Arsenal and Liverpool away. If we are relying on those type of decisions at places like Anfield to win enough games to survive we are in deep deep trouble.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:59 pm**

A couple of useless stats for you:

Our worst run to date under SD, whilst not from the start of the season was 5 points from 12 games during our Europa season. The last game in that bad run was the loss to Everton at home 5-1. We had 12 points after 19 matches. We then got 18 points from the next 8 matches.

Last season we were only one point better off than we are now but still scraped together 39 points by the end of the season.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:59 pm**

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:48 pm
Even with that really poor run we would average 32 points over a season. So I think it’s obvious that our form needs to improve to survive relegation. But it wouldn’t take the most miraculous improvement to do so.

32 points won’t be enough this season or I’d be shocked if it was. Norwich are down apart from that everyone are picking points up from each other. Next 2 at home are must win IMO

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:59 pm**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:52 pm
I think Dyche has lost the dressing room. We are no longer hard to beat and the players look lack lustre nearly every game.

Difficult to see who we can beat in this league at the moment

That surely means that we must be a very good team to still pick up draws at places like Leicester and Southampton when the manager has lost the dressing room!

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:01 pm**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:52 pm
I think Dyche has lost the dressing room. We are no longer hard to beat and the players look lack lustre nearly every game.

Difficult to see who we can beat in this league at the moment

Unsubstantiated nonsense. Present some sound supportive evidence and you might have an outside chance of someone taking your post seriously

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:03 pm**

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:58 pm
Well have we won since the fans have been back in? Look at the facts, currently the fans being absent had no bearing on our home form. It's factual atm, have your opinion but you can't argue with facts we can't win with or without fans at home.

The decision part is specific to 2 wins we got last season, Arsenal and Liverpool away. If we are relying on those type of decisions at places like Anfield to win enough games to survive we are in deep deep trouble.

We haven’t won since I last had my hair cut either. You’ve contradicted yourself because you have acknowledged that our home form hasn’t improved since fans have returned.

What decisions did we get against Arsenal and Liverpool that we shouldn’t have got?

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:04 pm**

I think claims the manager has lost the dressing room is incredibly OTT, the players have showed desire fight and energy, no questions about commitment from me. The recruitment is the reason we are shite, Rodriguez £10m and £50k a week, why? Why not Yaremchuk for 10 million euros? or Andre Silva for £6m? Silva banged in 30 league goals in the Bundesliga after being sold for £6m.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:04 pm**

Paddy1882 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:59 pm
32 points won’t be enough this season or I’d be shocked if it was. Norwich are down apart from that everyone are picking points up from each other. Next 2 at home are must win IMO

I know 32 won’t be enough. But I’m suggesting that a couple of extra wins over the course of a calendar year isn’t exactly a seismic shift in form.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:05 pm**

Goddy wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:01 pm
Unsubstantiated nonsense. Present some sound supportive evidence and you might have an outside chance of someone taking your post seriously

4 wins in 29 games.

None in the last 12 kind of supports the theory

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:07 pm**

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:42 pm
Palace lost their first 7 games, but won their 8th against Chelsea.

In 2014/15 we got our first win in game number 11, but we all know how that season ended.

Funnily enough in that season we actually managed to get ourselves back on an even keel. After our poor start we then got 16 points from the next 11 matches, leaving us on 20 points after 21 matches.

Missing the penalty at home to Leicester that year didn't help...

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:07 pm**

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:05 pm
4 wins in 29 games.

None in the last 12 kind of supports the theory

No it doesn't. It supports the view that we aren't good enough right now. If you are sure in your head Dyche has lost the dressing room do you want him gone?

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:09 pm**

taio wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:58 pm
We are not lacking effort. We are lacking form and quality.

The quality comes before the form, without the quality in this league it's unlikely you'll ever find any sort of consistent good results, we haven't phased the old guard out & replaced with younger on a incremental basis often enough.

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:11 pm**

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:04 pm
I know 32 won’t be enough. But I’m suggesting that a couple of extra wins over the course of a calendar year isn’t exactly a seismic shift in form.

Completely agree but at present, we lose players to ACN as well in January… that’s a massive task. If Sean pulls it off he’s better than I already think he is

Posted: **Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:11 pm**

KRBFC wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:04 pm
I think claims the manager has lost the dressing room is incredibly OTT, the players have showed desire fight and energy, no questions about commitment from me. The recruitment is the reason we are shite, Rodriguez £10m and £50k a week, why? Why not Yaremchuk for 10 million euros? or Andre Silva for £6m? Silva banged in 30 league goals in the Bundesliga after being sold for £6m.

Didn't AC Milan pay close to €40 million for Silva before loaning him to Frankfurt?
Leipzig then paid around €27 million for him from Frankfurt

Our club doesn't have the contacts to make those sort of loan deals I'm going to suggest, so it's all very well you throwing these names round, but you're omitting certain details and ignoring our lack of European transfer network.
It took us a fair while to get the deal for Cornet over the line this summer as it was

Must win again Brentford?

Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?

Re: Must win again Brentford?