Spijed wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:10 pm

For a start it's beyond reasonable doubt isn't it that the Saudi's behead people?

Do the Newcastle's owners personally behead people or are they just part of the regime that favours that particular form of punishment, distinct but important difference.

While it stinks to high heaven , when did the prem EVER give a monkeys cuss about “ where the money comes from “ ? The banner could have gone the whole hog and given a shout out to Jews and gays imo . Though looking at some of those socially awkward palace “ ultras” one can only hope they’ve deleted their browsing history when they get a knock

Spijed wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:04 pm

What's the difference then if someone turns up at a football match proclaiming ISIS or the Taliban are terrorists?

If it’s true, there’s a complete defence and any action will be unsuccessful as the reputation of the individual or individuals concerned has not been compromised.
If someone’s reputation has been unfairly tarnished, damages are awarded in accordance with the damages caused.

Wile E Coyote wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:00 am

free speech...nothing to debate.

If only free speech was allowed on here

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:12 pm

Do the Newcastle's owners personally behead people or are they just part of the regime that favours that particular form of punishment, distinct but important difference.

What like in the war (I was only following orders)

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:08 pm

That's proved beyond reasonable doubt but you still need to back up what you are saying, some of us thought jimmy saville was a sex pest preying on kids all them years ago but you can't just say things without proof to back up what you are saying.

On that subject a thought occurred to me - was Saville ever convicted - of anything?

Spijed wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:10 pm

For a start it's beyond reasonable doubt isn't it that the Saudi's behead people?

All Saudis?

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:25 pm

All Saudis?

You know what he meant. The Saudi regime.

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:01 pm

HaHaNo

The CPS uses definitions agreed with the National Police Chiefs' Council to identify racist or religious incidents/crimes and to monitor the decisions and outcomes:

"Any incident/crime which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's race or perceived race"
or

"Any incident/crime which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice based on a person's religion or perceived religion."

Pretty much what i said.

Interesting point re: Jimmy Savile as it appears the golden salamander is alive and well on the right of pic !

A few thoughts:

1. You cannot easily prosecute a head of state so “prove” is a different test than applied to the rest of us. Various intelligence agencies seem certain he ordered that offence.

2. The banner is clearly offensive. It is also clearly not an offence. And superb.

3. By this not being banned or prosecuted it will give the green light to other clubs to do the same (clubs could easily turn a blind eye to their own fans doing it because they hate this takeover too, Palace especially by the sounds of it). The chants will also become very creative.

4. The Premier League have probably gone too far here - this could be the tipping point that we look back on as ending the globalisation of football. Otherwise where does it end? Putin or Kim Jong Un couldn’t be stopped from buying a PL club because there is now a precedent with similar levels of depravity. Just because it is technically an ally can’t disguise it.

Well done Palace fans for not being subtle about this.

Well, this sports-washing isn't going to plan, is it. Their takeover has made even more people aware of what goes on in that country.

joey13 wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:21 pm

What like in the war (I was only following orders)

True it didn't do some of them any good at Nuremberg.

CaptainKirk wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:23 pm

On that subject a thought occurred to me - was Saville ever convicted - of anything?

A big fat NO pretty pointless now trying.

Apparently Brighton fans have asked to borrow the banner for their match with Newcastle in a couple of weeks time. This could get interesting.

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:37 am

I love the idea of hobophobia.

I love the idea that , for some , it's easier to point out spelling mistakes than to point out pure unadulterated hypocrisy.

The FA clearly believe they can cherry pick which "worthy cause " they'd like to virtue signal over.

They can't, and the vast vast silent majority of fans know it, and are sick and tired of it.

Qatar 2022 ? You're having a laugh....

RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:13 pm

I love the idea that , for some , it's easier to point out spelling mistakes than to point out pure unadulterated hypocrisy.

The FA clearly believe they can cherry pick which "worthy cause " they'd like to virtue signal over.

They can't, and the vast vast silent majority of fans know it, and are sick and tired of it.

Qatar 2022 ? You're having a laugh....

Rare I can say this RMc but I agree with you.

Jamesy wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:28 pm

You know what he meant. The Saudi regime.

He'd know that and he'd know that's what the rest of us were thinking if only he'd join us and come down from his high horse.

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:44 pm

Interesting point re: Jimmy Savile as it appears the golden salamander is alive and well on the right of pic !

Rick Wakeman.

Peter Loo wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:26 am

Unfortunately we have a dubious relationship with SA as we supply them with arms and they supply us with oil, so Governments in this Country don't want to "rock the boat" so to speak.. never the less a very relevant banner.

3% of our oil comes from Saudi Arabia. It's a small boat to rock. It's still a great banner though and should be passed around to be unveiled (no pun intended) at every game they play.

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:37 am

I love the idea of hobophobia.

I actually don’t mind tramps.

The Newcastle take over proves what many people have been saying for years, including me, that money is now the all powerful god of football. Owners can be or do what they like as long as they bring billions into the game. The game of football is dying and being turned into the plaything of stupidly rich people for the gratification of their immense egos. The real irony was Newcastle fans claiming they had got their club back. No they haven’t, they have just had it whipped straight from under them and they are to blind to see it.

RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:13 pm

I love the idea that , for some , it's easier to point out spelling mistakes than to point out pure unadulterated hypocrisy.

The FA clearly believe they can cherry pick which "worthy cause " they'd like to virtue signal over.

They can't, and the vast vast silent majority of fans know it, and are sick and tired of it.

Qatar 2022 ? You're having a laugh....

Apart from all the obvious reasons why the World Cup should not have been given to, or more to the fact, bought by Qatar, they should have had it taken away from them the day they said it could not be held in Summer.
Sorry chaps, but can you all postpone your leagues for a few weeks so we can move it to Winter? Should have told them to do one right there.
But of course money talks and so we all fall into line.

All the top European countries should have said no thanks, we'll give it a miss. They could then have held their own tournament in the Summer as normal and sold the TV rights for that. There is nothing FIFA could have done about it - they are not likely to ban them all from any future competitions as they would be pointless without the European countries.

On another issue, I am sick of Jimmy Geordie buying ridiculously expensive replica shirts for him and his 2 little geordies and then complaining about the price. Here's a thought - next time the new shirt comes out don't buy any, at all! The price would halve almost overnight.
This of course applies to all Clubs.
There is literally no limit to what people can achieve if they act together.
Did someone once ask: "What if they declared a war, but nobody went"?
Might be time for bed now.

Corky wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:59 pm

Apparently Brighton fans have asked to borrow the banner for their match with Newcastle in a couple of weeks time. This could get interesting.

That’s interesting,though if it’s in the public domain you’d imagine BHA would be warning fans in advance not to partake .Though if a more virtuous happy clappy club existed I’ve yet to see it ,so right up their alley .

Police confirm they are to take no further action according to the BBC.

Wonder if we will be seeing it more often then.

Claretincraven wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:06 pm

Police confirm they are to take no further action according to the BBC.

As correctly pointed out on this thread police are obligated to investigate any complaint made, a procedure that exists for reasons that are obvious. The banner isn't anything you wouldn't expect to see on the cover of Private Eye. If the PL take significant action they might be met with the kind of hostility the fans of a number of clubs have toward UEFA, except more unanimously felt within England, and fans wont have to jump on a plane to Switzerland to picket the competition organiser's headquarters. They'll be hoping this all just blows over quietly.

CaptainKirk wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:58 am

Apart from all the obvious reasons why the World Cup should not have been given to, or more to the fact, bought by Qatar, they should have had it taken away from them the day they said it could not be held in Summer.
Sorry chaps, but can you all postpone your leagues for a few weeks so we can move it to Winter? Should have told them to do one right there.
But of course money talks and so we all fall into line.

All the top European countries should have said no thanks, we'll give it a miss. They could then have held their own tournament in the Summer as normal and sold the TV rights for that. There is nothing FIFA could have done about it - they are not likely to ban them all from any future competitions as they would be pointless without the European countries.

On another issue, I am sick of Jimmy Geordie buying ridiculously expensive replica shirts for him and his 2 little geordies and then complaining about the price. Here's a thought - next time the new shirt comes out don't buy any, at all! The price would halve almost overnight.
This of course applies to all Clubs.
There is literally no limit to what people can achieve if they act together.
Did someone once ask: "What if they declared a war, but nobody went"?
Might be time for bed now.

What I’ve been saying for a year or two. Only thing I would argue with is why just European nations? Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay and other South American’s would probably have joined in. Imagine a world cup in the desert with no euro or SA nations. The guys who bought the World Cup would have more than a little egg on their collective faces.

Spiral wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:13 pm

As correctly pointed out on this thread police are obligated to investigate any complaint made, a procedure that exists for reasons that are obvious. The banner isn't anything you wouldn't expect to see on the cover of Private Eye. If the PL take significant action they might be met with the kind of hostility the fans of a number of clubs have toward UEFA, except more unanimously felt within England, and fans wont have to jump on a plane to Switzerland to picket the competition organiser's headquarters. They'll be hoping this all just blows over quietly.

Obliged, they are. Should have taken a matter of seconds to dismiss any complaint though.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:12 pm

Do the Newcastle's owners personally behead people or are they just part of the regime that favours that particular form of punishment, distinct but important difference.

Is it?

No further action to be taken.

Rowls wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:19 pm

Obliged, they are. Should have taken a matter of seconds to dismiss any complaint though.

I suspect it did, but I suspect they’ve also got other things to do and this complaint wouldn’t have been top of their to do list.

Dark Cloud wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:23 pm

Is it?

I know what you mean I don’t particularly like the Newcastle owners myself & the allegations which surround them but I also know in the eyes of the law if you are slandering somebody’s good name in public they’d better be a bloody good reason behind it & the onus is on the people to prove the Saudis are responsible for what’s been alleged in particular the Newcastle owners.

martin_p wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:43 am

I suspect it did, but I suspect they’ve also got other things to do and this complaint wouldn’t have been top of their to do list.

There are those who would have you believe that the police paused every other ongoing investigation and committed all available resources into this.

Of course it was not a criminal offence and God help us if it ever was in this country. However, the targets could sue for liable. They have unlimited resources.

Interesting to see what they do if anything. If they don't sue, then people will say the allegations on the banner must be true. If they do then Newcastle will become very unpopular throughout the land.

Can't see them letting these banners, and whatever else comes out when all banners are prevented from getting into stadiums, just mushroom.

summitclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:49 am

Of course it was not a criminal offence and God help us if it ever was in this country. However, the targets could sue for liable. They have unlimited resources.

I'm sure if they could that the Saudis would take the offensive banner into a remote embassy, chop it into small pieces using a bone saw, carry the fragments of cloth away in bin bags and dissolve them in acid to hide any trace of there ever being a banner in the first place.

Edit: Or would that be censorship?

The best thing about the takeover is that it has enlightened more people to what the Saudi regime gets up to. This is sport-washing in reverse.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:20 pm

I do love how suddenly everyone values the life of Jamal Khashoggi

Nothing "suddenly" about it. Most decent folks should be unhappy about the cowardly torture and killing of a journalist prepared to challenge the Saudis. Western governments are terrified of them - if it weren't for guys like that, there'd be more people like you appear to be, completely oblivious or, even worse, completely indifferent.

I would be very surprised if the owners want to make a big fuss in court over this.

There are too many ways that could go wrong and end up implicating the very people the owners want to protect. Also, how is libel proven on the balance of probabilities? A lot of detail would be needed as to the facts behind some high profile political events, no way are they wanting to go there. Finally, who do they sue? This thing could end up being passed around thousands of people over the season.

More likely is the the PL pressure clubs to ban it from within, but that will just drive it outside the stadium or replace it with chants. Thin end of the wedge for the PL. Best they can hope for is fans tire of it - probable in due course.

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:40 pm

I would be very surprised if the owners want to make a big fuss in court over this.

There are too many ways that could go wrong and end up implicating the very people the owners want to protect. Also, how is libel proven on the balance of probabilities? A lot of detail would be needed as to the facts behind some high profile political events, no way are they wanting to go there. Finally, who do they sue? This thing could end up being passed around thousands of people over the season.

More likely is the the PL pressure clubs to ban it from within, but that will just drive it outside the stadium or replace it with chants. Thin end of the wedge for the PL. Best they can hope for is fans tire of it - probable in due course.

What will be interesting is how rigorous any bag searches are for opposing fans when teams now visit SJP.

They won't want banners to be on display on a fortnightly basis in the away end.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:54 pm

What will be interesting is how rigorous any bag searches are for opposing fans when teams now visit SJP.

They won't want banners to be on display on a fortnightly basis in the away end.

No ****** would see them up there anyway.

The EPL really do have a problem of their own making, and whatever they do, there's no escaping the grubby state it is in.

evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:02 pm

Nothing "suddenly" about it. Most decent folks should be unhappy about the cowardly torture and killing of a journalist prepared to challenge the Saudis. Western governments are terrified of them - if it weren't for guys like that, there'd be more people like you appear to be, completely oblivious or, even worse, completely indifferent.

I'm not oblivious, I just understand it's the way of the world, there's evil, greed and violence at the very top, it's one big fight for power and wealth. Wether that's Kim killing his brother in N Korea, The Tories dropping bombs on Syrian children and families, The Mexican government funding and turning a blind eye to cartels, the Saudis murdering the journalist. I could go on and on but what is the point? it's been going on since the beginning of time, my voice changes nothing.

As for Khashoggi, he sounded like a jealous ex girlfriend, airing out all the dirty laundry after a breakup.

I'm just surprised Putin hasn't had Navalny murdered yet

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:02 pm

As for Khashoggi, he sounded like a jealous ex girlfriend, airing out all the dirty laundry after a breakup.

So he deserved to be chopped up into small pieces? A submissive 'it's the way of the world' is exactly what these regimes want to hear. Complicity of the 'nimby' variation.

Ignore him, he's trolling again.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:53 pm

I'm not oblivious, I just understand it's the way of the world, there's evil, greed and violence at the very top, it's one big fight for power and wealth. Wether that's Kim killing his brother in N Korea, The Tories dropping bombs on Syrian children and families, The Mexican government funding and turning a blind eye to cartels, the Saudis murdering the journalist. I could go on and on but what is the point? it's been going on since the beginning of time, my voice changes nothing.

You forgot Blair & Bush war mongering and going into Iraq

Silkyskills1 wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:57 pm

So he deserved to be chopped up into small pieces? A submissive 'it's the way of the world' is exactly what these regimes want to hear. Complicity of the 'nimby' variation.

Not what I quite said, you might not want to hear it but its the truth, people are prepared to do whatever to secure and retain power. Khashoggi was all pally pally with the leaders for years, he was the ex girlfriend bitter and creating drama and the reason he was killed is because he likely knew too much from the time he was happy to support and be friendly with the regime. Look across the world at the people in power and their scummy actions, your voice has 0 impact so you'd be wasting your time letting it bother you.