Youth

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
davetheclaret
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 10:48 pm
Been Liked: 14 times

Re: Youth

Post by davetheclaret » Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:12 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:51 pm
Fair point, I didn't mean Harker is better just a young kid off the bench may offer a bit more energy/rawness than what we've seen from Barnes/Rodriguez off the bench lately. I've seen Harker play twice, I'm certainly not in a position to be making wild claims that he's a PL ready striker, just I'd like to see anything but the standard Rodriguez/Barnes performance.
I understand your point but this bunch of lads are not ready for the 1st team, take Joel Mumbongo big strong lad but didn't look up to our 1st team on the odd few occasions when we was very short, Dyche see's them everyday he has sent him out on loan, but he isn't really setting it a light at Accrington, we are not playing basement football we are in the top league and you have to earn the right and be ready to play in any 1st and im afraid at the moment, and its only my opinion but that these lads are not ready for the premier league, when they are im sure they will be given the chance.
This user liked this post: Leisure

Rileybobs
Posts: 16684
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
Been Liked: 6893 times
Has Liked: 1471 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Youth

Post by Rileybobs » Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:12 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:02 pm
You're not wrong, this whole relegation thing with uncertain future finances is getting to me, it's not fun seeing my team unable to win, I know I know it was worse under Cotterill but I don't take much happiness from either run. It's brutal and football isn't any fun when your side can't win for toffee. I'm hoping for change and I just don't see it with Rodriguez/Barnes, hence the cry for anything but (regardless of how wild it may be).
That’s just irrational. The blind hope that trying anything different is more likely to give success. The best chance we have of winning games is to play our best players, whether you’re bored of seeing them or not.
This user liked this post: Silkyskills1

boatshed bill
Posts: 15107
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
Been Liked: 3137 times
Has Liked: 6682 times

Re: Youth

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:17 pm

davetheclaret wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:12 pm
I understand your point but this bunch of lads are not ready for the 1st team, take Joel Mumbongo big strong lad but didn't look up to our 1st team on the odd few occasions when we was very short, Dyche see's them everyday he has sent him out on loan, but he isn't really setting it a light at Accrington, we are not playing basement football we are in the top league and you have to earn the right and be ready to play in any 1st and im afraid at the moment, and its only my opinion but that these lads are not ready for the premier league, when they are im sure they will be given the chance.
You are almost certainly right.
Just to counter though: you say that they have to earn the right, I agree, but once having erned it does that mean they get to keep it?
i'm amazed at the length of contracts some of our under-performers are sitting on at present.

davetheclaret
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 10:48 pm
Been Liked: 14 times

Re: Youth

Post by davetheclaret » Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:32 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:17 pm
You are almost certainly right.
Just to counter though: you say that they have to earn the right, I agree, but once having erned it does that mean they get to keep it?
i'm amazed at the length of contracts some of our under-performers are sitting on at present.
Well McNeil earned the right and has kept his place, as for older pro's once you have signed them unless you can move them on they will sit and see their contracts out, there has been a few who i know both you and i wouldn't have given a contract to, but we don't sign the players, we just pay people a lot of money to do that, its football im afraid we aren't the only club out there paying some players for very little return.
This user liked this post: boatshed bill

Tall Paul
Posts: 7170
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:07 am
Been Liked: 2560 times
Has Liked: 690 times

Re: Youth

Post by Tall Paul » Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:04 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:12 pm
That’s just irrational. The blind hope that trying anything different is more likely to give success. The best chance we have of winning games is to play our best players, whether you’re bored of seeing them or not.
Image
These 2 users liked this post: Rileybobs KRBFC

KRBFC
Posts: 18018
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3784 times
Has Liked: 1071 times

Re: Youth

Post by KRBFC » Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:23 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:12 pm
That’s just irrational. The blind hope that trying anything different is more likely to give success. The best chance we have of winning games is to play our best players, whether you’re bored of seeing them or not.
I cannot argue with you here :D

KRBFC
Posts: 18018
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am
Been Liked: 3784 times
Has Liked: 1071 times

Re: Youth

Post by KRBFC » Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:24 pm

Tall Paul wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:04 pm
Image
Sums it up pretty well :lol:

Forgotten
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:20 am
Been Liked: 4 times
Has Liked: 4 times

Re: Youth

Post by Forgotten » Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:28 am

I think that there’s more to be gained by giving a youth player a chance on the biggest stage than you’re all suggesting.

Rightly, you have to earn your place in a squad. Once you’re there training day in day out, you want to feel like you’ve got a chance to push through. Otherwise you’re just making the numbers up.

Giving young players 6,7 even 10 minutes at the end of a game is that chance. It makes you want it even more next time out!

It gives the fans a lift, and it gives the whole academy a huge boost. It’s proof you can get premier league minutes at BFC.

Ferguson was a master at this, exposed youth all the time. Sometimes for the shop window, sometimes because they’re good enough, but sometimes just to price the pathway existed.
This user liked this post: boatshed bill

davetheclaret
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 10:48 pm
Been Liked: 14 times

Re: Youth

Post by davetheclaret » Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:23 pm

Forgotten wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:28 am
I think that there’s more to be gained by giving a youth player a chance on the biggest stage than you’re all suggesting.

Rightly, you have to earn your place in a squad. Once you’re there training day in day out, you want to feel like you’ve got a chance to push through. Otherwise you’re just making the numbers up.

Giving young players 6,7 even 10 minutes at the end of a game is that chance. It makes you want it even more next time out!

It gives the fans a lift, and it gives the whole academy a huge boost. It’s proof you can get premier league minutes at BFC.

Ferguson was a master at this, exposed youth all the time. Sometimes for the shop window, sometimes because they’re good enough, but sometimes just to price the pathway existed.


Id love to see a side full of youth, but currently we don't have players in our u23 that are good enough and strong enough to push for a 1st team place, i think when people see u23s they think all these players are 22 or 23 they are not some are just 18 or 19 and some the likes of Richardson are getting valuable experience from being around the 1st team squad at the moment, those who are good enough when the time is right will get their chance, at the moment we can't take chances but gifting players 10 mins at the end of games, Dyche knows he has to pick points up and he's going to try and do that with the experienced squad that he has. As has been said in earlier posts id like to know who these players are that people think should be given a chance ?

Mattster
Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:02 am
Been Liked: 349 times
Has Liked: 117 times

Re: Youth

Post by Mattster » Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:00 pm

If there were any that Dyche felt were ready to take that step up then the game against Rochdale was the opportunity. Clearly he doesn't think any are ready yet.

With Long returning to fitness I would hope we're going to get Bobby Thomas out to League 1 or Championship level in January, his deal indicates he's one we have real hopes for and if he's not going to play for us then he needs to be getting first team football - he's better than PL2 level now and won't be getting much out of it.

Richardson probably would have featured against Rochdale if he hadn't picked up that injury against Wolves U23.

Next in the pecking order look like Dodgson, Gomez-Mancini and then I'd imagine Mellon given his early promotion to U23 level. I think Glennon will be gone in Summer, I don't think he's getting into the first team here unfortunately.

ClaretTony
Posts: 67423
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
Been Liked: 32238 times
Has Liked: 5253 times
Location: Burnley
Contact:

Re: Youth

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:04 pm

Mattster wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:00 pm

With Long returning to fitness I would hope we're going to get Bobby Thomas out to League 1 or Championship level in January, his deal indicates he's one we have real hopes for and if he's not going to play for us then he needs to be getting first team football - he's better than PL2 level now and won't be getting much out of it.
We said the same about Thomas while sat at Leyland last Friday night. He's a level above PL2 now and needs to get some more first team football. As you said, with Long back available, there is an opportunity to do that in January. Let's hope there is a good enough club shows interest.

But for those calling for the young players to be involved, I wish they would go and watch the under-23s.
This user liked this post: Mattster

boatshed bill
Posts: 15107
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
Been Liked: 3137 times
Has Liked: 6682 times

Re: Youth

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:07 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:04 pm
We said the same about Thomas while sat at Leyland last Friday night. He's a level above PL2 now and needs to get some more first team football. As you said, with Long back available, there is an opportunity to do that in January. Let's hope there is a good enough club shows interest.

But for those calling for the young players to be involved, I wish they would go and watch the under-23s.

Not L1!!
He's good enough for the Championship in my opinion.
Actually, he may well be better than Long ;)

Mattster
Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:02 am
Been Liked: 349 times
Has Liked: 117 times

Re: Youth

Post by Mattster » Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:14 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:04 pm
We said the same about Thomas while sat at Leyland last Friday night. He's a level above PL2 now and needs to get some more first team football. As you said, with Long back available, there is an opportunity to do that in January. Let's hope there is a good enough club shows interest.

But for those calling for the young players to be involved, I wish they would go and watch the under-23s.
I thought we may have been able to get him out to Cheltenham after they lost Tozer (CB with a long throw). They got Pollock in who has been brilliant, so good in fact that I could see Watford recalling him in January so there may be another shot at that.

davetheclaret
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 10:48 pm
Been Liked: 14 times

Re: Youth

Post by davetheclaret » Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:27 pm

Mattster wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:14 pm
I thought we may have been able to get him out to Cheltenham after they lost Tozer (CB with a long throw). They got Pollock in who has been brilliant, so good in fact that I could see Watford recalling him in January so there may be another shot at that.
Its a good shout mattster im sure Duff will know some of these lads but as yet hasn't returned for any, there were some on here a few year back saying Ali Koiki should be given a chance, he's now found his level and playing well for Northampton Town im told, we haven't let many go that have come back to bite us in the arse really, as i said before these players are watched day in day out by Dyche and his staff, we have a couple out on loan at the moment and as you say a couple more could go out in January. The fact we are picking players up released from the likes of United, Chelsea etc gives us a chance of another Dwight McNeil but we may have to turn an awful lot over to find one.

Mattster
Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:02 am
Been Liked: 349 times
Has Liked: 117 times

Re: Youth

Post by Mattster » Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:34 pm

davetheclaret wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:27 pm
Its a good shout mattster im sure Duff will know some of these lads but as yet hasn't returned for any, there were some on here a few year back saying Ali Koiki should be given a chance, he's now found his level and playing well for Northampton Town im told, we haven't let many go that have come back to bite us in the arse really, as i said before these players are watched day in day out by Dyche and his staff, we have a couple out on loan at the moment and as you say a couple more could go out in January. The fact we are picking players up released from the likes of United, Chelsea etc gives us a chance of another Dwight McNeil but we may have to turn an awful lot over to find one.
I don't think we have many, if any, left from Duff's time here to be fair so he won't have an inside track on the lads here now, bar contact with our coaching staff.

davetheclaret
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 10:48 pm
Been Liked: 14 times

Re: Youth

Post by davetheclaret » Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:01 pm

Mattster wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:34 pm
I don't think we have many, if any, left from Duff's time here to be fair so he won't have an inside track on the lads here now, bar contact with our coaching staff.
Fair point Mattster, Richardson has had a connection with the club for sometime and Thomas may have come as Duff left, but i've never heard he's wished to take any of our players on loan.

ClaretTony
Posts: 67423
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
Been Liked: 32238 times
Has Liked: 5253 times
Location: Burnley
Contact:

Re: Youth

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:21 pm

Mattster wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:34 pm
I don't think we have many, if any, left from Duff's time here to be fair so he won't have an inside track on the lads here now, bar contact with our coaching staff.
Michael Duff sat in the stand when our u23s played Millwall on the Turf in September 2018 and later that day was confirmed as the new Cheltenham manager, and what a good job he's done by the way.

The team that day, officially his last Burnley team was: Adam Bruce, James Clarke (Mansfield), Teddy Perkins (Watford), Oliver Younger (Sunderland), Anthony Glennon (Burnley), Tunde Bayode (Colne), Christian N’Guessan (Ebbsfleet), Mace Goodridge (Chorley), Ali Koiki (Northampton), Tinashe Chakwana, Dan Agyei (Oxford). Subs: Harry Allen (Burnley), Jordan Cropper, Ed Cook, Kian Yari, Marley Blair (Yeovil).

I've named the clubs they play for now as far as I know.

superdimitri
Posts: 4936
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:04 pm
Been Liked: 1005 times
Has Liked: 725 times

Re: Youth

Post by superdimitri » Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:31 pm

Some of the players seem to be stuck in limbo. Too good for u23 football but not good enough to attract enough interest to go out on loan at a meaningful level.

Forgotten
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:20 am
Been Liked: 4 times
Has Liked: 4 times

Re: Youth

Post by Forgotten » Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:49 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:04 pm
We said the same about Thomas while sat at Leyland last Friday night. He's a level above PL2 now and needs to get some more first team football. As you said, with Long back available, there is an opportunity to do that in January. Let's hope there is a good enough club shows interest.

But for those calling for the young players to be involved, I wish they would go and watch the under-23s.
We do watch the 23s. We’re not calling for serious game time, just the opportunity for the gaffer to throw players in and let them get a feel for the speed, thrill and prestige of the premier league. That takes minutes and is better than throwing an old head whose been there done it and is likely leaving in January.

Otherwise players feel like they’re just making up numbers, their heads start to wander and look for playing time away from the club they love and want to represent! I think we’ve been lucky to keep Richardson for so long, it’s a good job his advisors have their heads in the right way round!

superdimitri
Posts: 4936
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:04 pm
Been Liked: 1005 times
Has Liked: 725 times

Re: Youth

Post by superdimitri » Tue Feb 15, 2022 6:02 am

Didn't want to start a new thread but I found this an interesting read:
https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... ons-league

Young lad didn't really get a chance at Wolves, ended up moving to Famalicao, a newly promoted team in Portugal and doing so well there that he earned a move to Sporting.

I know it's an easier league but surely he's more than capable of breaking through in a team like ours.

Point being, sometimes you just have to give youngsters a chance. Performing well for the u23s is positive but sometimes a chance is all the right player needs to raise his game.

Post Reply