Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
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Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
I can't see it posted elsewhere, but there are calls for him to go by certain people after some rather inappropriate comparisons.
I remember Stan Ternent saying something similar, many years ago, when he was describing a refereeing performance, but maybe times have changed since then.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... 037474.amp
I remember Stan Ternent saying something similar, many years ago, when he was describing a refereeing performance, but maybe times have changed since then.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... 037474.amp
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
A stupid comparison and not something I’ve heard say before, then again I’ve compared things ‘to an abortion’ in the past and that’s a terrible comparison but something I’d heard a lot growing up.
Engage brain, before opening mouth!
Engage brain, before opening mouth!
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Not sure I’ve ever heard it used in that context.
A strange character for sure.
A strange character for sure.
Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
An inappropriate comment made by an intelligent but not well educated man.
No doubt he will apologise and should be forgiven, consequently.
Unfortunate.
No doubt he will apologise and should be forgiven, consequently.
Unfortunate.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
A bit gormless..with probably no intention to offend whatsoever...but in this day and age there's a thousand snowflakes under every stone just desperate to be outraged.
I really wish they'd focus on the genuinely nasty dangerous people, not clowns like Joey.
I really wish they'd focus on the genuinely nasty dangerous people, not clowns like Joey.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Just seen it. What a shocking analogy. Joey? Kin'ell man.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
A poor choice of words to describe a poor performance, but clearly said off the cuff on the spur of the moment without considering or realising how it could be seen or interpreted by some. Unfortunate, but surely an apology should suffice.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Unfortunate choice of words, but it's not a sacking offence. His results might be though, if they don't improve.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Hard lines, Joey. Poor words. Take your medicine and move on. Don’t read the paper underneath your chips tomorrow night.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Agree that it was probably clumsy rather than intentionally offensive but it's odd that neither he nor BRFC have apologised.
Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Is there a difference between the word holocaust and The Holocaust?
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Yes, most definitely.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
A storm causing a holocaust, is perfectly legitimate use of the word… and it’s legitimate use… IT IS WHY THE TERM WAS APPLIED To the death camps in the first place.
Joel Barton not only has nothing to apologise for,he was linguistically correct and Deserves an apology.
Joel Barton not only has nothing to apologise for,he was linguistically correct and Deserves an apology.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
In many ways it’s not too much different to saying ‘Salah murdered Maguire’ etc. I remember Alan Pardew once using the term ‘he’s absolutely raped him’ which I found particularly odd.
Either way, you’ve got to be lacking in brainpower and any kind of awareness to use the word holocaust in this context.
Either way, you’ve got to be lacking in brainpower and any kind of awareness to use the word holocaust in this context.
Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Probably just Barton trying to come across as a bit clever and throwing an obscure word in there, but I don’t think it deserves the uproar it seems to have got.
Stan Ternent calling Dean West ‘Fred’ used to always make me chuckle.
Stan Ternent calling Dean West ‘Fred’ used to always make me chuckle.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Yes me too.
Typical of the way things are though sadly. As I say the reason the Allies used the term in the first place was because it was a one word term for beyond desolation…
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
The word cones from the the Greek word holokauston, itself a translation of the Hebrew olah, meaning "completely burnt offering to God,"elwaclaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:19 pmYes me too.
Typical of the way things are though sadly. As I say the reason the Allies used the term in the first place was because it was a one word term for beyond desolation…
Long before the allies the lowercase "holocaust" has described violent deaths of large groups of people and is thought to go back to the 18th century. I believe Churchill amongst over used the word before the second world war when describing the genocide of the Armenians during the first world war.
Im sure all of this is what Joey was thinking about when he used "having a holocaust" to describe his players having a nightmare performance.
As people have pointed out idiots sometimes use foolish ill thought-out phrases but if you're gonna casually use a word like that then your fair game for the criticism.
If I was his chairman Its not his language that would be worrying me but his ability (or lack of it) as a football manager
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
I didn’t say it wasn’t Ill advised… just linguistically legitimate. There seems a complete lack of any allowance for “misspoke” in today’s world. The dunking stool of the modern world.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:35 pmThe word cones from the the Greek word holokauston, itself a translation of the Hebrew olah, meaning "completely burnt offering to God,"
Long before the allies the lowercase "holocaust" has described violent deaths of large groups of people and is thought to go back to the 18th century. I believe Churchill amongst over used the word before the second world war when describing the genocide of the Armenians during the first world war.
Im sure all of this is what Joey was thinking about when he used "having a holocaust" to describe his players having a nightmare performance.
As people have pointed out idiots sometimes use foolish ill thought-out phrases but if you're gonna casually use a word like that then your fair game for the criticism.
If I was his chairman Its not his language that would be worrying me but his ability (or lack of it) as a football manager
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Apparently the word pre-dates ‘the Holocaust’ by some 700 years. Which makes me think about how some words become associated with something whilst actually not being part of it. As you rightly point out it means burnt offering or sacrifice. It also relates to mass killings of any kind (nuclear Holocaust would be a true and rightful meaning given the nature of what would happen if such a hell were to be let loose).Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:35 pmThe word cones from the the Greek word holokauston, itself a translation of the Hebrew olah, meaning "completely burnt offering to God,"
Long before the allies the lowercase "holocaust" has described violent deaths of large groups of people and is thought to go back to the 18th century. I believe Churchill amongst over used the word before the second world war when describing the genocide of the Armenians during the first world war.
Im sure all of this is what Joey was thinking about when he used "having a holocaust" to describe his players having a nightmare performance.
As people have pointed out idiots sometimes use foolish ill thought-out phrases but if you're gonna casually use a word like that then your fair game for the criticism.
If I was his chairman Its not his language that would be worrying me but his ability (or lack of it) as a football manager
Having said that I think Joey has done nothing other than an error of judgment. It is difficult these days though to know what is appropriate and what isn’t. People can no longer be spontaneous for fear of saying the wrong thing. Yes some things are offensive to some people and understandably so, but if things are uttered in anger or frustration or the heat of the moment I do not think the person saying them should be hung out to dry by the PC police. People should perhaps have a quiet word with the offender, not try to publicly humiliate them or demand they lose their jobs.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Sorry I should have quoted when you said the following which I believe is inaccurate. Joey did not use the word in the context of a storm but in the context of his players having a nightmare it also has nothing to do with why the word was applied to the Nazi deathcamps.elwaclaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:51 pmI didn’t say it wasn’t Ill advised… just linguistically legitimate. There seems a complete lack of any allowance for “misspoke” in today’s world. The dunking stool of the modern world.
As for the dunking stool of the modern world just as Joey is free to use these words then others are just as free to criticise.elwaclaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:03 pmA storm causing a holocaust, is perfectly legitimate use of the word… and it’s legitimate use… IT IS WHY THE TERM WAS APPLIED To the death camps in the first place.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
I agree with most of what you say but in labelling peoples right to criticise something as "PC Police" in the same way words like woke and virtue signalling are thrown about you seem to be guilty of the very thing you are moaning about.houseboy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:57 pmApparently the word pre-dates ‘the Holocaust’ by some 700 years. Which makes me think about how some words become associated with something whilst actually not being part of it. As you rightly point out it means burnt offering or sacrifice. It also relates to mass killings of any kind (nuclear Holocaust would be a true and rightful meaning given the nature of what would happen if such a hell were to be let loose).
Having said that I think Joey has done nothing other than an error of judgment. It is difficult these days though to know what is appropriate and what isn’t. People can no longer be spontaneous for fear of saying the wrong thing. Yes some things are offensive to some people and understandably so, but if things are uttered in anger or frustration or the heat of the moment I do not think the person saying them should be hung out to dry by the PC police. People should perhaps have a quiet word with the offender, not try to publicly humiliate them or demand they lose their jobs.
My view is Joey can use whatever terms he likes and people have the same right to use whatever terms they like to criticise him. He isnt being publicly humiliated or hung out to dry and a few hundred people on Twitter saying he should lose his job is nowhere near an outcry and again by being so dramatic about a storm in a teacup you seem to be acting like those you criticise
The only thing Joey should lose his job for is being a crap football manager
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Fair enough, came on here for the news as been a busy day… didn’t realise it was a storm in a teacupDevils_Advocate wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:07 pmI agree with most of what you say but in labelling peoples right to criticise something as "PC Police" in the same way words like woke and virtue signalling are thrown about you seem to be guilty of the very thing you are moaning about.
My view is Joey can use whatever terms he likes and people have the same right to use whatever terms they like to criticise him. He isnt being publicly humiliated or hung out to dry and a few hundred people on Twitter saying he should lose his job is nowhere near an outcry and again by being so dramatic about a storm in a teacup you seem to be acting like those you criticise
The only thing Joey should lose his job for is being a crap football manager
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
I think most of life is just storms in teacupselwaclaret wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:13 pmFair enough, came on here for the news as been a busy day… didn’t realise it was a storm in a teacup
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Silly statement to make, but certainly not a sacking offence. People get offended far too easily. I can't believe anyone genuinely believes Joey thinks defeat to Newport was as bad as 6 million Jews being slaughtered, so why would anyone want to take him literally. Unless they want the attention of course.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
You are correct and maybe I myself should be criticised for being like those I criticise. I think maybe I came across wrongly. No-one on this site believes in free speech more than I do but I perhaps failed to get across the fact that, in my opinion, there is a difference between saying something ‘general’ that could be labelled offensive and people making personal attacks on an individual because they said it. My point being that in this case Barton said something that, to certain sections of society was offensive (although he almost certainly didn’t mean to cause offence). But the response from certain people (not aimed at anyone on here by the way) has been in itself inappropriate.Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:07 pmI agree with most of what you say but in labelling peoples right to criticise something as "PC Police" in the same way words like woke and virtue signalling are thrown about you seem to be guilty of the very thing you are moaning about.
My view is Joey can use whatever terms he likes and people have the same right to use whatever terms they like to criticise him. He isnt being publicly humiliated or hung out to dry and a few hundred people on Twitter saying he should lose his job is nowhere near an outcry and again by being so dramatic about a storm in a teacup you seem to be acting like those you criticise
The only thing Joey should lose his job for is being a crap football manager
The problem with free speech is that it sometimes can cause offence but rather that than people being gagged for maybe having views that don't sit too well with many. But that is a whole other argument and not for on here.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
He he still alive? He should have been shot at dawn many moons ago.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Really, any need for this .dermotdermot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:38 amHe he still alive? He should have been shot at dawn many moons ago.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
There is also of course the 'nuclear holocaust'.
'Holocaust' is a legitimate word to use but has become a bit risky to say only because you know some people will jump on an opportunity to be offended.
Anyway, could this be the local media contacting various people that might be offended by Barton's comments. Afterall it seems to me unlikely that some of them would seek out Barton's views on Bristol Rovers performances.
'Holocaust' is a legitimate word to use but has become a bit risky to say only because you know some people will jump on an opportunity to be offended.
Anyway, could this be the local media contacting various people that might be offended by Barton's comments. Afterall it seems to me unlikely that some of them would seek out Barton's views on Bristol Rovers performances.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Do you not think that's it's possible for people to naturally feel offended by things? Granted, there are people who like to cause outrage over trivial matters, but I suspect had I been personally affected by The Holocaust then I would probably feel a bit offended that a football manager has likened those atrocities to a player having a bad game. It's an incredibly stupid thing to say and you've got to wonder what's going through his head to use that term in this context.Hipper wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:44 amThere is also of course the 'nuclear holocaust'.
'Holocaust' is a legitimate word to use but has become a bit risky to say only because you know some people will jump on an opportunity to be offended.
Anyway, could this be the local media contacting various people that might be offended by Barton's comments. Afterall it seems to me unlikely that some of them would seek out Barton's views on Bristol Rovers performances.
As for comments from representatives of the Jewish Labour Movement and various Holocaust memorial organisations, I expect these have been sought out by the BBC, and naturally these people will be keen to make sure that this word isn't trivialised. I can hardly blame them for that.
I wonder whether the mood would have been the same had one of our politicians used the same terminology rather than one of our ex-players.
Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Also, how did the BBC know he said the word with a capital H? All their reports appear to have assumed he said Holocaust?
I think it was an unwise word to use, though, simply because of The Holocaust.
I think it was an unwise word to use, though, simply because of The Holocaust.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Barton has the right to say it, people have the right to be offended by it and they have the right to voice their opposition and offence.
They do not have the right, however, to enforce any action by him, such as an apology, because of it.
IMO, of course.
They do not have the right, however, to enforce any action by him, such as an apology, because of it.
IMO, of course.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
It's a possibility that holocaust may be a common term to use on the training ground. "Fuckin ell Smithy, you've had an 'olocaust there mate".
Still not wise to use it in an interview but would go some way to rationalise why it was used.
Still not wise to use it in an interview but would go some way to rationalise why it was used.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Whatever your political leanings that's hardly an appropriate comment in the wake of an MP being murdered is it.dermotdermot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:38 amHe he still alive? He should have been shot at dawn many moons ago.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Daft comment by Barton, and he could surely have found a better word to describe Bristol Rovers performance than that.
However he shouldn't lose his job over this, results is an entirely different matter mind you.
However he shouldn't lose his job over this, results is an entirely different matter mind you.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
He shouldn't be forced to apologise but you'd think that after causing offence (real offence, to people who suffered as a result of the Holocaust) he would do so voluntarily
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
This is my reading of the situation. Amongst the lads they probably use the term 'having a holocaust' for 'having a nightmare' in just a jokey way as groups of mates and colleagues do for probably loads of stupid analogies.TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:40 amIt's a possibility that holocaust may be a common term to use on the training ground. "Fuckin ell Smithy, you've had an 'olocaust there mate".
Still not wise to use it in an interview but would go some way to rationalise why it was used.
Im sure amongst my friends I say inappropriate things but we know each other and we know it is just messing about and we wouldn't act the same with outsiders who might take things in the wrong way
I think Joey just let the word slip in the interview as he sort of immediately corrects himself and changes it to nightmare and im sure no offence was intended but if you are in the public arena then you open yourself up by using language like he did.
Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Yes, of course. And they have every right to be if they wish. But why do they need to tell everyone about it? Who are they talking to? Most people know about the Holocaust (not just Jews died of course) and if they don't, well a quiet word would suffice surely.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
It was clearly not in anyway intoning “ the holocaust “ he was simply bemoaning the inconsistency of his players ie “ one week great the next “ an absolute holocaust “ it’s certainly a very shoot from the hip choice of words but there’s no way in holy hell he was referencing the mass deaths of Jews . A quick apology would suffice for the offended imo
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
I was working at Highbury Stadium yesterday and the impression I got from talking to the workforce is the place is a lot calmer since he was sacked by Fleetwood
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
Why? Exactly. Could you enlighten us as to how you have come to the conclusion that a man should die? Or is summary execution fine in your world?dermotdermot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:38 amHe he still alive? He should have been shot at dawn many moons ago.
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Re: Joey Barton puts his foot in it... again!
What isit that you do for work LC?Local cricketer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:52 pmI was working at Highbury Stadium yesterday and the impression I got from talking to the workforce is the place is a lot calmer since he was sacked by Fleetwood