The farce that is playing out from the back.

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
gandhisflipflop
Posts: 5500
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:05 pm
Been Liked: 2317 times
Has Liked: 1399 times
Location: Costa del Padihamos beach.

The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by gandhisflipflop » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:28 am

I really do not understand why so many teams insist on playing out from the back. I watched United last night and Villareal did this constantly and they were eventually caught out. A ball out from the keeper, their cb got caught and it left ronaldo 1v1. If we did this it would drive me crazy! The amount of goals I see like this these days it’s just madness. Our goal last season vs Arsenal at home is another prime example. Barcelona and Guardiola seemed to start this trend off, and when they did it it was fantastic to watch, but ultimately they had the best in the world at the time that was able to do it consistently, the same with city now. This has lead to every man and his dog attempting it and it’s just gone complete overkill. Sides like Norwich coming up and trying it, got found out and went down. Goalkeepers are now judged on their passing rather than the job they are actually paid to do - keep the ball out of the bloody net! I know we can be a pain to watch at times but predominantly our defenders defend, and our goalkeeper does his job well. I yearn for football to return to the days where teams had their own style and way of playing, rather than the identikit teams we see today which leaves little to the imagination.

Sorry had to get that off my chest. UTC.
These 5 users liked this post: Woodleyclaret Spijed Colburn_Claret Clarethalffull PaintYorkClaretnBlue

Burnley1989
Posts: 7345
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:19 am
Been Liked: 2274 times
Has Liked: 2153 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Burnley1989 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:33 am

I’ve no doubt the statistics back up that you keep possession far better that lumping it forward and hoping to hit your striker.
In this situation I think us Burnley fans are probably wrong even though my feelings are the same as yours, I actually love it when teams do it to us, particularly with players like Vydra and Cornet to put pressure on.

TheFamilyCat
Posts: 10841
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:56 pm
Been Liked: 5520 times
Has Liked: 208 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by TheFamilyCat » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:34 am

I'm more than happy for average teams to keep trying to do it against us.
These 5 users liked this post: Dark Cloud RalphCoatesComb Bosscat Taffy on the wing HandforthClaret

TheFamilyCat
Posts: 10841
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:56 pm
Been Liked: 5520 times
Has Liked: 208 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by TheFamilyCat » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:36 am

Burnley1989 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:33 am
I’ve no doubt the statistics back up that you keep possession far better that lumping it forward and hoping to hit your striker.
In this situation I think us Burnley fans are probably wrong even though my feelings are the same as yours, I actually love it when teams do it to us, particularly with players like Vydra and Cornet to put pressure on.
I disagree. Most teams may keep possession for three or four passes then end up hitting it long. They just delay the inevitable and invite pressure onto players who aren't good enough to get away with it.
These 2 users liked this post: minnieclaret Colburn_Claret

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 11039
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1559 times
Has Liked: 359 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:39 am

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:36 am
I disagree. Most teams may keep possession for three or four passes then end up hitting it long. They just delay the inevitable and invite pressure onto players who aren't good enough to get away with it.
This argument was made on here last year. Pretty sure all the stats indicated that teams that passed it out from the back conceded less and scored more.

There’s a reason all the best teams in world football play out from the back.

Burnley1989
Posts: 7345
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:19 am
Been Liked: 2274 times
Has Liked: 2153 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Burnley1989 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:39 am

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:36 am
I disagree. Most teams may keep possession for three or four passes then end up hitting it long. They just delay the inevitable and invite pressure onto players who aren't good enough to get away with it.
That’s how I feel it just amazes me that with that they wouldn’t be aware of this and would continue if it didn’t work better for them in the long run.

Jakubclaret
Posts: 9434
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
Been Liked: 1180 times
Has Liked: 778 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Jakubclaret » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:40 am

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:34 am
I'm more than happy for average teams to keep trying to do it against us.
& it’s paying dividends with a cursory glance at the league table.

TheFamilyCat
Posts: 10841
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:56 pm
Been Liked: 5520 times
Has Liked: 208 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by TheFamilyCat » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:40 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:39 am
This argument was made on here last year. Pretty sure all the stats indicated that teams that passed it out from the back conceded less and scored more.

There’s a reason all the best teams in world football play out from the back.
I'm talking about the average and poor teams (Norwich as a prime example) doing it.

RVclaret
Posts: 13836
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:30 am
Been Liked: 3707 times
Has Liked: 2499 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by RVclaret » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:41 am

When it comes off it’s beautiful to watch. Watch some of Maurizio Sarri’s Napoli from 2015-2018, their tactics involved literally sucking teams in to press them and then playing through the press with one touch vertical passing which opened up space for Insigne/Higuain/Mertens to attack.

Obviously it’s not easily done due to the pressure and some teams do mess up if certain players or the coaching isn’t good enough. For example Potter’s Brighton didn’t master it for two seasons but now it seems to have clicked, they now play some excellent passing football through the field.

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 11039
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1559 times
Has Liked: 359 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:50 am

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:40 am
I'm talking about the average and poor teams (Norwich as a prime example) doing it.
I think they would argue that what got them to the premier league

claretonthecoast1882
Posts: 10085
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Been Liked: 4161 times
Has Liked: 57 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:54 am

Because a few managers with the most expensive and best squads in the world do it, then the brainwashed think it is the only way to do things.

Can't think of anything more stupid than going up against a team with better players and playing the way they do. Sheep will be sheep though.

taio
Posts: 11520
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:17 am
Been Liked: 3220 times
Has Liked: 340 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by taio » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:59 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:50 am
I think they would argue that what got them to the premier league
Obviously the counter-argument and stronger case is adapt for the Premier League or you are likely to be relegated

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 11039
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1559 times
Has Liked: 359 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:07 am

taio wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:59 am
Obviously the counter-argument and stronger case is adapt for the Premier League or you are likely to be relegated
To be fair Taio I would say 90% of premier league teams play out from the back.

Quickenthetempo
Posts: 17913
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:35 am
Been Liked: 3841 times
Has Liked: 2065 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:11 am

Crystal Palace did it very well on Saturday in the first half. People assume it's our midfield that let us down but we usually stand 10 yards off players and aren't quick enough to get there, or sharp enough reading the game.
When we got a lot closer to them 2nd half they struggled more, but Palace are only a few games into playing this way.

taio
Posts: 11520
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:17 am
Been Liked: 3220 times
Has Liked: 340 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by taio » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:14 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:07 am
To be fair Taio I would say 90% of premier league teams play out from the back.
Not to the extent of what is being described here i.e. where some some of the top teams are often playing it out from their own box. 90% of teams aren't doing that. And the poorer teams that try to overplay out from the back are more likely to be relegated.

box_of_frogs
Posts: 4955
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:47 am
Been Liked: 1087 times
Has Liked: 996 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by box_of_frogs » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:17 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:39 am
This argument was made on here last year. Pretty sure all the stats indicated that teams that passed it out from the back conceded less and scored more.

There’s a reason all the best teams in world football play out from the back.
Because they’re the best teams with the best players. Stats are pretty useless for this IMHO, as you can make them fit whatever you’re trying to prove. The only benefit I see for most teams outside of the top 6-8, is the fact that it gives your players a slight rest versus the hit it long but it might come right back at you tactic.

Woodleyclaret
Posts: 6887
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:25 pm
Been Liked: 1468 times
Has Liked: 1839 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Woodleyclaret » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:30 am

Playing across the back four against fast teams like Palace is utter madness
We get robbed often in cm and are on the back foot straight off
We need to encourage our wide players to want the ball attack the opposition and press
Dwight though ofter drifts off his wing leaving Charlie no option but to pass sideways or try a charge from his own half

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 11039
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1559 times
Has Liked: 359 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:37 am

box_of_frogs wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:17 am
Because they’re the best teams with the best players. Stats are pretty useless for this IMHO, as you can make them fit whatever you’re trying to prove. The only benefit I see for most teams outside of the top 6-8, is the fact that it gives your players a slight rest versus the hit it long but it might come right back at you tactic.
True you can make any stat support a view.

I would suggest that all off the worlds top managers are not just “brainwashed” and are actually very good at there jobs.

It’s been proven over the last 20 odd years that playing out from the back is the most successful way of playing football.

However as you highlighted you need the correct players. Which is why for the life of me I can’t understand how anyone wants to play three at the back, a formation which relies on the progressive passing of CBs

Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Spijed » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:44 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:11 am
Crystal Palace did it very well on Saturday in the first half. People assume it's our midfield that let us down but we usually stand 10 yards off players and aren't quick enough to get there, or sharp enough reading the game.
When we got a lot closer to them 2nd half they struggled more, but Palace are only a few games into playing this way.
On their main forum their fans were critical of the way they were playing out from the back saying it was the wrong tactic in the second half.

minnieclaret
Posts: 6842
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:05 am
Been Liked: 2012 times
Has Liked: 2287 times
Location: lismore co. waterford

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by minnieclaret » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:52 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:39 am
This argument was made on here last year. Pretty sure all the stats indicated that teams that passed it out from the back conceded less and scored more.
There’s a reason all the best teams in world football play out from the back.
There are stats and stats. That one is fake.
How many goal do you see that start from the keeper passing it out at the back v. how many goals do you see conceded from the same start?
Conceded wins every time.
The best teams score more and concede less is the reason they are the best teams. Nothing to do with the starting position.
There is another stat that most goals are scored from less than 5 touches, you don’t score if 3 of them are in your own penalty area.

Devils_Advocate
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
Been Liked: 5202 times
Has Liked: 920 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Devils_Advocate » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:54 am

Burnley1989 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:33 am
I’ve no doubt the statistics back up that you keep possession far better that lumping it forward and hoping to hit your striker.
In this situation I think us Burnley fans are probably wrong even though my feelings are the same as yours, I actually love it when teams do it to us, particularly with players like Vydra and Cornet to put pressure on.
^^^^This^^^^

Its horses for courses and think there's probably some teams where its more borderline and they'd be better off mixing it up more or being like us but the football analyst guys who the top managers (including Dyche) rely on will be assessing all sorts of things and it obviously indicates for most top level teams keeping possession outweighs the risks of making an error passing it out at the back.

It wouldn't work for Burnley and Im sure the analytics that Dyche uses backs that up hence why we dont do it however other clubs will employ the tactics that look to work best for them.

Devils_Advocate
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:43 pm
Been Liked: 5202 times
Has Liked: 920 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Devils_Advocate » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:56 am

minnieclaret wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:52 am
There are stats and stats. That one is fake.
How many goal do you see that start from the keeper passing it out at the back v. how many goals do you see conceded from the same start?
Conceded wins every time.
The best teams score more and concede less is the reason they are the best teams. Nothing to do with the starting position.
There is another stat that most goals are scored from less than 5 touches, you don’t score if 3 of them are in your own penalty area.
You dont score if you haven't got the ball either

claretonthecoast1882
Posts: 10085
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Been Liked: 4161 times
Has Liked: 57 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:56 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:37 am
True you can make any stat support a view.

I would suggest that all off the worlds top managers are not just “brainwashed” and are actually very good at there jobs.

It’s been proven over the last 20 odd years that playing out from the back is the most successful way of playing football.

However as you highlighted you need the correct players. Which is why for the life of me I can’t understand how anyone wants to play three at the back, a formation which relies on the progressive passing of CBs

PSG play out from the back and couldn't even win the french league with the cheating squad they have assembled.

If all 20 teams in the Premier League play out from the back only 1 can win it that means 19 can't, so how does your daft stat even get close to the truth. This is the problem for people who judge everything in football by stats rather than their own eyes.

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 11039
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1559 times
Has Liked: 359 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:01 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:56 am
PSG play out from the back and couldn't even win the french league with the cheating squad they have assembled.

If all 20 teams in the Premier League play out from the back only 1 can win it that means 19 can't, so how does your daft stat even get close to the truth. This is the problem for people who judge everything in football by stats rather than their own eyes.
And what were the team doing that won Ligue 1? yes they played out from the back.

Come on claret who have you seen win a league recently not playing out from the back? Before you say Leicester, they did play out from the back it was what made there counter attacks so successful.

Quickenthetempo
Posts: 17913
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:35 am
Been Liked: 3841 times
Has Liked: 2065 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:01 am

Spijed wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:44 am
On their main forum their fans were critical of the way they were playing out from the back saying it was the wrong tactic in the second half.
Different fans have different opinions but if you're playing 451 with Gallagher supporting the striker, then they will need to build up more as a team.

claretonthecoast1882
Posts: 10085
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Been Liked: 4161 times
Has Liked: 57 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:08 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:01 am
And what were the team doing that won Ligue 1? yes they played out from the back.

Come on claret who have you seen win a league recently not playing out from the back? Before you say Leicester, they did play out from the back it was what made there counter attacks so successful.

You said a stat shows that teams playing out from the back are the most successful. I am just showing you that a team that PSG couldn't even win the French league doing so.

You also said stats show teams playing out from the back concede less (again this stat is ********)

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 11039
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1559 times
Has Liked: 359 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:10 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:08 am
You said a stat shows that teams playing out from the back are the most successful. I am just showing you that a team that PSG couldn't even win the French league doing so.

You also said stats show teams playing out from the back concede less (again this stat is ********)
Yes and I am showing you that even though PSG didn’t win it a team with a considerably lower budget won it by playing out from the back

claretonthecoast1882
Posts: 10085
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Been Liked: 4161 times
Has Liked: 57 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:14 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:10 am
Yes and I am showing you that even though PSG didn’t win it a team with a considerably lower budget won it by playing out from the back
Stats will show England beat San Marino and we played out from the back. Do you think that is why we beat them ?

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:14 am

I like it, and I like our way of doing it as well (we mix it up a lot more than we get credit for)

And it has to be said, its a great way of teaching the basics of football like movement, control, quickness and accuracy of passing, so its also good to watch it being attempted by most teams at kids level

NottsClaret
Posts: 3576
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:05 am
Been Liked: 2588 times
Has Liked: 1 time

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by NottsClaret » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:22 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:14 am
I like it, and I like our way of doing it as well (we mix it up a lot more than we get credit for)

And it has to be said, its a great way of teaching the basics of football like movement, control, quickness and accuracy of passing, so its also good to watch it being attempted by most teams at kids level
That's true about kids' teams. Some of the football the juniors play even at grassroots level is ridiculous now compared to years gone by. There's teams in mid-level Sheffield u12s league playing like 2010 Barcelona - or at least trying to. Good to see. Although I quite like it when we leather it up to the big man too, so happy to watch it all.

Tall Paul
Posts: 7170
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:07 am
Been Liked: 2560 times
Has Liked: 690 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:38 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:01 am
And what were the team doing that won Ligue 1? yes they played out from the back.

Come on claret who have you seen win a league recently not playing out from the back? Before you say Leicester, they did play out from the back it was what made there counter attacks so successful.
Liverpool

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 11039
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1559 times
Has Liked: 359 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:39 am

Tall Paul wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:38 am
Liverpool
Yep Liverpool play out from the back.

claretonthecoast1882
Posts: 10085
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Been Liked: 4161 times
Has Liked: 57 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:40 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:01 am
And what were the team doing that won Ligue 1? yes they played out from the back.

Come on claret who have you seen win a league recently not playing out from the back? Before you say Leicester, they did play out from the back it was what made there counter attacks so successful.
Leicester played it long quite often to Vardy and still do

Tall Paul
Posts: 7170
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:07 am
Been Liked: 2560 times
Has Liked: 690 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:41 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:39 am
Yep Liverpool play out from the back.
More long passes than any other PL club when they won the title.

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 11039
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1559 times
Has Liked: 359 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:42 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:40 am
Leicester played it long quite often to Vardy and still do
Yes they suck teams in from playing out from the back. That allows them to break very quickly with direct balls.

They still play out from the back

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 11039
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1559 times
Has Liked: 359 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:42 am

Tall Paul wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:41 am
More long passes than any other PL club when they won the title.
See above post, same as Leicester. They still play out from the back

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:47 am

NottsClaret wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:22 am
That's true about kids' teams. Some of the football the juniors play even at grassroots level is ridiculous now compared to years gone by. There's teams in mid-level Sheffield u12s league playing like 2010 Barcelona - or at least trying to. Good to see. Although I quite like it when we leather it up to the big man too, so happy to watch it all.
Think its safe to say that nobody has had a greater influence on football than Pep Guardiola

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14562
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3435 times
Has Liked: 6339 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:48 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:47 am
Think its safe to say that nobody has had a greater influence on football than Pep Guardiola
Cruyff?
He's the one who inspired Pep, created the Barca academy and it's philosophy etc.

SalisburyClaret
Posts: 4077
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:32 pm
Been Liked: 1104 times
Has Liked: 709 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by SalisburyClaret » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:48 am

Playing out from the back (besides being monumentally boring to watch) carries a high risk - so the benefits have to outweigh that risk - do they?
Of course they don't, unless you have a billion-pound squad and an outstanding manager and even then you get caught out.
The only benefit is if you know the opposition's method of pressing and have a plan on how to open them up when they move into that position. Pep does this, the others just think it's about possession- and after a while they get fired.

Dark Cloud
Posts: 6586
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:03 am
Been Liked: 1981 times
Has Liked: 3299 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Dark Cloud » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:54 am

It always makes me smile when the goalie knocks it to the cb and he knocks it to the full back, who knocks it to the other cb, who knocks it to the goalie, who knocks it to the first cb, who then knocks it sideways to the other full back who then boots it as long and as far as he can up the line in a great impression of the brilliant Ray Deakin! What a load of emporers new clothes (imo!!)
This user liked this post: Woodleyclaret

claretonthecoast1882
Posts: 10085
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Been Liked: 4161 times
Has Liked: 57 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:55 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:42 am
Yes they suck teams in from playing out from the back. That allows them to break very quickly with direct balls.

They still play out from the back
Using this weird logic any move that starts from the keeper is playing out from the back, even if he rolls it 10 yards and a defender plays an 80 yard ball

Lancasterclaret
Posts: 23343
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:09 pm
Been Liked: 8058 times
Has Liked: 4714 times
Location: Riding the galactic winds in my X-wing

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:59 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:48 am
Cruyff?
He's the one who inspired Pep, created the Barca academy and it's philosophy etc.
Probably

Been refined to almost perfect by Pep though
This user liked this post: GodIsADeeJay81

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 11039
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1559 times
Has Liked: 359 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:00 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:55 am
Using this weird logic any move that starts from the keeper is playing out from the back, even if he rolls it 10 yards and a defender plays an 80 yard ball
I suggest you Google the definition of playing out from the back. It will help you understand

claretonthecoast1882
Posts: 10085
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Been Liked: 4161 times
Has Liked: 57 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:01 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:00 am
I suggest you Google the definition of playing out from the back. It will help you understand
Irony

Newcastleclaret93
Posts: 11039
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:29 pm
Been Liked: 1559 times
Has Liked: 359 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:03 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:01 am
Irony
First post that came up on google.

“teams tend to play out from the back which means that they pass the ball out from the goalkeeper to defenders rather than kicking it long. ... They do this to try and entice the opposing team to press them so that there will be more space in behind them.”

This is exactly what Leicester and Liverpool did during there league wins.

Rowls
Posts: 13163
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:00 pm
Been Liked: 5065 times
Has Liked: 5124 times
Location: Montpellier, France

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Rowls » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:06 am

I’m looking forward to watching the current Newcastle team develop this style under Howe.
This user liked this post: GodIsADeeJay81

GodIsADeeJay81
Posts: 14562
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:55 am
Been Liked: 3435 times
Has Liked: 6339 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:06 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:03 am
First post that came up on google.

“teams tend to play out from the back which means that they pass the ball out from the goalkeeper to defenders rather than kicking it long. ... They do this to try and entice the opposing team to press them so that there will be more space in behind them.”

This is exactly what Leicester and Liverpool did during there league wins.
Claretonthecoast suggested it's just a keeper who passes it to a defender, which is what you've stated....
Hence the irony comment.

What the defender does with it after that is up to them, but if a defender kicks it long, then it's still technically playing out from the back if he got the ball from the keeper.

dsr
Posts: 15132
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:47 pm
Been Liked: 4548 times
Has Liked: 2241 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by dsr » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:07 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:56 am
You dont score if you haven't got the ball either
It works both ways. As you accurately point out, you don't score if you don't have the ball (Chris Wood's goal v. Arsenal being an exception :D ) but on the other hand, you don't score if you have the ball in your own half.

There are two things you must do with the ball. Get it to your own players in a goalscoring position, and stop the opposition from getting it to their players in a goalscoring position. All else is detail. If you have players like Burnley, tippy tapping to the centre halves may not be the best way to achieve either. If you have players like Man City, it may be.
These 2 users liked this post: Spijed Dark Cloud

Peter Loo
Posts: 1343
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:16 pm
Been Liked: 135 times
Has Liked: 97 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Peter Loo » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:14 am

gandhisflipflop wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:28 am
I really do not understand why so many teams insist on playing out from the back. I watched United last night and Villareal did this constantly and they were eventually caught out. A ball out from the keeper, their cb got caught and it left ronaldo 1v1. If we did this it would drive me crazy! The amount of goals I see like this these days it’s just madness. Our goal last season vs Arsenal at home is another prime example. Barcelona and Guardiola seemed to start this trend off, and when they did it it was fantastic to watch, but ultimately they had the best in the world at the time that was able to do it consistently, the same with city now. This has lead to every man and his dog attempting it and it’s just gone complete overkill. Sides like Norwich coming up and trying it, got found out and went down. Goalkeepers are now judged on their passing rather than the job they are actually paid to do - keep the ball out of the bloody net! I know we can be a pain to watch at times but predominantly our defenders defend, and our goalkeeper does his job well. I yearn for football to return to the days where teams had their own style and way of playing, rather than the identikit teams we see today which leaves little to the imagination.

Sorry had to get that off my chest. UTC.
My sentiments almost entirely and what the Premier League do others are bound to follow.

Watching local football and it's the same sort of nonsense going on week after week.

Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: The farce that is playing out from the back.

Post by Spijed » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:19 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:55 am
Using this weird logic any move that starts from the keeper is playing out from the back, even if he rolls it 10 yards and a defender plays an 80 yard ball
Pope passes it to Mee quite a few times during a game.

Total football!
These 3 users liked this post: dsr Rowls Clarethalffull

Post Reply