Two more serious health related incidents

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KRBFC
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by KRBFC » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:11 am

joey13 wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:25 pm
While prolonging the pandemic, brilliant 👍
Still not gonna put some random gunk into my body because someone else told me to.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Rowls » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:55 am


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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by gandhisflipflop » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:07 am

Rileybobs wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:43 pm
You’re suggesting that the two people referred to collapsed due to having had a covid vaccination, despite not knowing whether they’ve had the covid vaccination or the details of what caused the collapse. How incredibly stupid is that.

And how crass do you have to be to jump onto unfortunate incidents like this, with absolutely no knowledge or expertise on the subject, to push your unsubstantiated misinformation. What a wrong’un.
You really don’t understand the word ‘could’, do you? Could they have just collapsed for other reasons? Yes. Could it be vaccine related? Yes. To call me stupid and a ‘wrong-un’ just because I am questioning things is just infantile. I notice further down I have been called ‘anti vax’. When you have a society that instantly shut down debate like this and make topics that taboo whereby they can’t be questioned, and you can’t be sceptical, then I’d suggest that the people who do that are that entrenched in what they’re told that they’re unable to think for themselves.

I have said I hope the people are ok, I have chosen my words very carefully to use the word ‘could’ as I don’t know and neither do you rileybobs yet you choose to ignore this.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:21 am

Rowls wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:30 pm
I think you're in the age group that will benefit Lancaster and I'm happy my parents have had their boosters.*

I'm appalled that the government pressed ahead with vaccines for children against the advice of their own scientists.

For each and every demographic (age, weight, previous medical history, etc) there is a potential risk and a potential reward from the vaccine. We know that it provides good assistance in preventing serious illness from the virus and it also helps somewhat in lowering transmission (though apparently not effectively against new variants).

We also know that children are at a statistically negligent risk, young people likewise and that slim people are far more likely to shrug off the virus than the overweigh or obese.

The long term side effects of the vaccine are unknown but there are plenty of side effects that ARE known and we should all, as individuals, be permitted to make our decision with informed consent.

It is not a case of taking your advice from "scientists" or "weirdos of the internet" - it is a case of weighing the relevant risk and reward. Even for demographics for whom scientists recommend mass immunisation, there will be people for whom the side effects of the vaccine will end up worse than the virus.

We can have this debate openly and honestly or we can simply railroad it which certainly will push people more towards "weirdos on the internet".

Or we can just do away with centuries of human rights and bodily autonomy and make vaccine mandatory (threatened in German and Austria, set to go ahead in Greeze) or make it illegal for unvaccinated to make a living (Italy).

Make no mistake, there are serious issues here and if we take a wrong step in the wrong direction, who knows where society will end up?

Turning this debate into a tribal culture war issue won't help anybody.

* I've re read that and I didn't mean it to sound cheeky. I *think* you're around 55-65!
I'm 48!

F**k off with your 55-65!
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by NottsClaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:29 am

I’m old enough to remember the vaccine causing Eriksen to collapse.. and that lad Wyke at Wigan. Until it turned out they hadn’t been vaccinated and then we moved onto random crowd members.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:35 am

Rowls wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:55 am
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59418123
“ The vaccine is thought to have saved about a million lives from Covid.”

Always worth pointing out. Thanks for the link.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Inchy » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:47 am

For a balanced view whilst there is no evidence that the vaccine can cause heart problems, endocarditis is a known issue when contracting COVID.

People may not even be aware they have endocarditis until they have a real issue


So it’s if we are making stuff up it’s probably more likely these people are suffering the effects of an infection rather than a vaccine
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:49 am

The tin foil brigade went into full action mode on Saturday when there was a medical issue at Sheff Weds during the 1st half.

The stupids couldn't help themselves with their vaccine conspiracies, then it emerged it was a few lads fighting among themselves :D

Fair play those who won't put an unknown substance in their body, unless it is powder and it is weekend
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Hipper » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:49 am

elwaclaret wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:40 pm
People have always been taken ill at football matches. Previously they were quickly taken out of the terraces and shot.

But seriously my dad got some fantastic treatment when he tumbled down three rows of the Bob Lord head first at the Villa league cup game a few years ago. The fact that he was whipped into the medical room and everyone was there on standby probably saved his life that night… (club even sent him a video of the game)
I can't vouch for the first paragraph :-) but what seems to be happening now is that the club medics are getting involved and therefore the game is stopped and it comes to our attention. In the past the St John's crew would deal with similar issues and you'd rarely hear about it. Also we now appear, or are supposed to be, more sensitive to these matters and have to make platitudes on the subject.

It's hardly surprising that amongst large crowds there will be those at severe risk of some trauma.
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by RicardoMontalban » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:03 am

I guess in a way it’s good that people are being mindful of what they put into their bodies but it has to be done with a bit of realism. Of course there are risks associated with the vaccines, as there are with any medicines. Just look on the back of a pack of antihistamines or paracetamol and there is advice. There have been cases of blood clotting but when the doses administered are in the 10s of millions they are statistically small and your chances of catching the virus and being seriously poorly are much higher. You can get seriously ill off the flu vaccine if you’re allergic to the wrong things.

As Rowls’ article states, the vaccine is thought to have saved many times the lives it has cost by preventing serious infection. Add to that the unknowable number of transmissions it has prevented then I do think the benefits far outweigh the risks. But this is the world we live in at the moment where no choice appears to be without risk.

There’s zero evidence as yet that last night’s two incidents were caused by the vaccine. Maybe they were both sufferers of long covid? Something else we know precious little about. Or maybe they were just people with health conditions who got sick. As someone who sat in the Bob Lord for years I saw plenty of them every week.

Bottom line is we don’t know.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Inchy » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:11 am

We don’t know.

Really we don’t know anything, unless you’re a virologist or other scientific expert.

I don’t know anything. Does the vaccine cause heart problems? Don’t know. The scientists haven’t highlighted it as an issue.
Does COVID cause heart problems? Yes, I do know that, because the scientists have proven this through study.


If I don’t know something I don’t put 2 and 2 together and suggest uneducated theories. I wait to see what the scientific experts report.

As a general rule it’s far better to listen to experts than to make stuff up
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Rowls » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:11 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:35 am
“ The vaccine is thought to have saved about a million lives from Covid.”

Always worth pointing out. Thanks for the link.
Not only "worth pointing out" but also in line with the industry regulator.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv-radio-and-o ... oronavirus

I don't doubt that estimate but where does it come from? Is it in the UK or worldwide? How elderly are these saved lives? How did they arrive at that figure.

As figures and stats go, it's a robust one. Like "we send the EU xxx million pounds every day let's spend it on the NHS instead" and "if we leave the EU the average household will be XX thousand poorer".

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:12 am

Inchy wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:11 am
We don’t know.

Really we don’t know anything, unless you’re a virologist or other scientific expert.

I don’t know anything. Does the vaccine cause heart problems? Don’t know. The scientists haven’t highlighted it as an issue.
Does COVID cause heart problems? Yes, I do know that, because the scientists have proven this through study.


If I don’t know something I don’t put 2 and 2 together and suggest uneducated theories. I wait to see what the scientific experts report.

As a general rule it’s far better to listen to experts than to make stuff up

When you say experts I take it you don't mean Sharon and Tracey with their status updates on facebook, where reading this thread and others some clearly are.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Rowls » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:14 am

Inchy wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:47 am
For a balanced view whilst there is no evidence that the vaccine can cause heart problems, endocarditis is a known issue when contracting COVID.
People may not even be aware they have endocarditis until they have a real issue
So it’s if we are making stuff up it’s probably more likely these people are suffering the effects of an infection rather than a vaccine
Hi Inchy,

A good post, with the correct tone when many are reaching for hyperbole and wanting to turn this into a tribal issue.

However, we do know that the vaccine can cause heart problems: It is a stated side effect. It's on the NHS website.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by joey13 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:24 am

KRBFC wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:11 am
Still not gonna put some random gunk into my body because someone else told me to.
Random gunk , I’ve got mates like you who say the same thing , yet in the 80s 90s and 2000s didn’t seem to mind what they put in their bodies :lol:

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by joey13 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:26 am

Rowls wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:14 am
Hi Inchy,

A good post, with the correct tone when many are reaching for hyperbole and wanting to turn this into a tribal issue.

However, we do know that the vaccine can cause heart problems: It is a stated side effect. It's on the NHS website.
So does paracetamol

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:32 am

Rowls wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:11 am
Not only "worth pointing out" but also in line with the industry regulator.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv-radio-and-o ... oronavirus

I don't doubt that estimate but where does it come from? Is it in the UK or worldwide? How elderly are these saved lives? How did they arrive at that figure.

As figures and stats go, it's a robust one. Like "we send the EU xxx million pounds every day let's spend it on the NHS instead" and "if we leave the EU the average household will be XX thousand poorer".

Thanks again for the BBC link.

Always worth pointing out how many lives have been saved so thanks for bringing to everyone’s attention.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:33 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:21 pm
I've got my 3rd jab booked for next week

Thats because I'm perfectly sane and I believe that people who are experts in the field of immunisation and virology are better bets than weirdos of the internet

But hey, its your opinion that really matters when its stuff like this isn't it?
Aye, boosted since 4th November here

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Inchy » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:34 am

Rowls wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:14 am
Hi Inchy,

A good post, with the correct tone when many are reaching for hyperbole and wanting to turn this into a tribal issue.

However, we do know that the vaccine can cause heart problems: It is a stated side effect. It's on the NHS website.


Have you ever read the listed side effects of any drug?

It’s pretty substantial for even the most basic over the counter meds. I don’t believe it’s a common side effect, most likely a rare side effect meaning it’s listed because not to list it opens up a litigation nightmare but if it’s a rare side effect it’s more likely to be coincidental than an actual side effect.

Psychosis is a rare side effect of many over the counter drugs, but it’s probably more likely the psychosis is not driven by taking the drug and more the reasonable realisation that we are living in an episode of black mirror

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Rowls » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:35 am

joey13 wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:26 am
So does paracetamol
From NHS:

Paracetamol: "Paracetamol very rarely causes side effects if you take it at the right dosage.
If you're worried about a side effect or notice anything unusual, talk to your pharmacist or doctor.
Serious allergic reaction
In rare cases, it's possible to have a serious allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) to paracetamol.
These are not all the side effects of paracetamol. For a full list, see the leaflet inside your medicines packet."

Covid Vaccine(s): Like all medicines, the COVID-19 vaccines can cause side effects, but not everyone gets them.
Most side effects are mild and should not last longer than a week, such as:
a sore arm from the injection
feeling tired
a headache
feeling achy
feeling or being sick
You may also get a high temperature or feel hot or shivery 1 or 2 days after your vaccination. You can take painkillers such as paracetamol if you need to. If your symptoms get worse or you're worried, call 111.
If you have a high temperature that lasts longer than 2 days, a new, continuous cough or a loss or change to your sense of smell or taste, you may have COVID-19. Stay at home and get a test.
You cannot catch COVID-19 from the vaccine, but you may have caught it just before or after your vaccination.
More information
GOV.UK: what to expect after your COVID-19 vaccination
GOV.UK: information for children and young people on what to expect after COVID-19 vaccination
Information:
Report a side effect
Report a vaccine side effect on the COVID-19 Yellow Card website
Very rare side effects
Allergic reactions
Most people with allergies (including food or penicillin allergies) can be vaccinated against COVID-19.
Tell healthcare staff before you're vaccinated if you've ever had a serious allergic reaction (including anaphylaxis). They may ask what you're allergic to, to make sure you can have the vaccine.
Serious allergic reactions to the COVID-19 vaccines are very rare.
If you do have a reaction, it usually happens in minutes. Staff giving the vaccine are trained to deal with allergic reactions and treat them immediately.
If you have a serious allergic reaction to the 1st dose of a vaccine, you should not have the same vaccine for your 2nd dose.
Blood clotting
The MHRA is carrying out a detailed review of reports of an extremely rare blood clotting problem affecting a small number of people who had the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine.
It's not yet clear why it affects some people.
The COVID-19 vaccine can help stop you getting seriously ill or dying from COVID-19. For people aged 40 or over and those with other health conditions, the benefits of being vaccinated with the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine outweigh any risk of clotting problems.
For people under 40 without other health conditions, it's preferable for you to have the Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna vaccine instead of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine.
Find out more about COVID-19 vaccination and blood clotting on GOV.UK"

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by aggi » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:40 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:12 am
Who's saying Covid-19 doesn't include increased risk of heart attacks? It's the science denying "crew" that appear to not want to consider the increasing concern , from respected bodies, of the link between cardio illness and vaccines.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.


From CNN.


"The new report comes as the Israeli Ministry of Health finds a "likelihood of a link" between the second dose of the Covid-19 vaccine and myocarditis, most commonly among males ages 16 to 30.
The June 1 report by a work group of the CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices states that within 30 days of receiving the second dose of either Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, "there was a higher number of observed than expected myocarditis/pericarditis cases in 16-24-year-olds."
Loads of nutters on the internet, intellectual heavyweights like Lawrence Fox for instance https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1463781964226469888 For whatever reason they have, any health issue and the only response is "it's the vaccine".
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martin_p
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by martin_p » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:43 am

Rowls wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:11 am
I don't doubt that estimate but where does it come from? Is it in the UK or worldwide? How elderly are these saved lives? How did they arrive at that figure.
Well your first question is answered in the article you link! The second is irrelevant unless you are placing a higher value on one life over another. The third is a valid question but not one you’d expect to read in an article that is only ever going to touch on the issues at a high level. I suspect the answer will be out there somewhere though.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by joey13 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:49 am

Rowls wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:35 am
From NHS:

Paracetamol: "Paracetamol very rarely causes side effects if you take it at the right dosage.
If you're worried about a side effect or notice anything unusual, talk to your pharmacist or doctor.
Serious allergic reaction
In rare cases, it's possible to have a serious allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) to paracetamol.
These are not all the side effects of paracetamol. For a full list, see the leaflet inside your medicines packet."

Covid Vaccine(s): Like all medicines, the COVID-19 vaccines can cause side effects, but not everyone gets them.
Most side effects are mild and should not last longer than a week, such as:
a sore arm from the injection
feeling tired
a headache
feeling achy
feeling or being sick
You may also get a high temperature or feel hot or shivery 1 or 2 days after your vaccination. You can take painkillers such as paracetamol if you need to. If your symptoms get worse or you're worried, call 111.
If you have a high temperature that lasts longer than 2 days, a new, continuous cough or a loss or change to your sense of smell or taste, you may have COVID-19. Stay at home and get a test.
You cannot catch COVID-19 from the vaccine, but you may have caught it just before or after your vaccination.
More information
GOV.UK: what to expect after your COVID-19 vaccination
GOV.UK: information for children and young people on what to expect after COVID-19 vaccination
Information:
Report a side effect
Report a vaccine side effect on the COVID-19 Yellow Card website
Very rare side effects
Allergic reactions
Most people with allergies (including food or penicillin allergies) can be vaccinated against COVID-19.
Tell healthcare staff before you're vaccinated if you've ever had a serious allergic reaction (including anaphylaxis). They may ask what you're allergic to, to make sure you can have the vaccine.
Serious allergic reactions to the COVID-19 vaccines are very rare.
If you do have a reaction, it usually happens in minutes. Staff giving the vaccine are trained to deal with allergic reactions and treat them immediately.
If you have a serious allergic reaction to the 1st dose of a vaccine, you should not have the same vaccine for your 2nd dose.
Blood clotting
The MHRA is carrying out a detailed review of reports of an extremely rare blood clotting problem affecting a small number of people who had the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine.
It's not yet clear why it affects some people.
The COVID-19 vaccine can help stop you getting seriously ill or dying from COVID-19. For people aged 40 or over and those with other health conditions, the benefits of being vaccinated with the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine outweigh any risk of clotting problems.
For people under 40 without other health conditions, it's preferable for you to have the Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna vaccine instead of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine.
Find out more about COVID-19 vaccination and blood clotting on GOV.UK"
https://www.gponline.com/gp-warning-par ... le/1336369

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Rombald » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:51 am

Interested to know how many of those questioning the vaccine eat any old food, drink, drugs,
"I'll put that in my body, but not that"

Questioning is fine, but this is verging on stupid

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by AlargeClaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:54 am

Finally, people ( even the nut jobs on here ) realising that anything from a strepsil to a brufen pill has a whole raft of possible side effects

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by martin_p » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:00 am

AlargeClaret wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:54 am
Finally, people ( even the nut jobs on here ) realising that anything from a strepsil to a brufen pill has a whole raft of possible side effects
Lots of people have extreme reactions to peanuts but you don’t hear anyone going ‘bet he’d had peanuts’ every time someone has a problem in the crowd.
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by mealdeal » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:05 am

I went out with an American lass who worked on new drug development for Pfizer, back in the 2000s. She said that during trials, *every* effect is reported. Doesn't matter what it is or whether its a genuine side effect of the drug.

So, you could have eaten a dicky keeeebab the night before and by completely bad luck get a case of the squits when trialing immodium - on the leaflet it says it could cause the squits, because no one really knows. As time goes on the list of genuinely known side effects diminishes and they can produce the 1 in x statisitcs you see on the leaflets.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by dsr » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:06 am

martin_p wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:43 am
The second is irrelevant unless you are placing a higher value on one life over another.
Well, obviously people place a higher value on one life than another. If two people need a transplant, and only one is available, and one is aged 80 and the other aged 10 and there is similar likelihood of success, who do you think's going to get it?

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by RicardoMontalban » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:09 am

Rombald wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:51 am
Interested to know how many of those questioning the vaccine eat any old food, drink, drugs,
"I'll put that in my body, but not that"

Questioning is fine, but this is verging on stupid
My wife had that exact conversation with one of her colleagues who had used that as her reasoning for not having the vaccine. All the while sat the guzzling some fluorescent pop drink with a label written in Polish.

As laypeople we don’t know what’s in any medication. We can read the label but would we be any the wiser?

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by martin_p » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:18 am

dsr wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:06 am
Well, obviously people place a higher value on one life than another. If two people need a transplant, and only one is available, and one is aged 80 and the other aged 10 and there is similar likelihood of success, who do you think's going to get it?
In that context yes, but in the context of lives saved by a vaccine it has no relevance (and to be pedantic if it was an adult heart available it wouldn’t be compatible with a ten year old).
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Goodclaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:57 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:49 am
The tin foil brigade went into full action mode on Saturday when there was a medical issue at Sheff Weds during the 1st half.

The stupids couldn't help themselves with their vaccine conspiracies, then it emerged it was a few lads fighting among themselves :D

Fair play those who won't put an unknown substance in their body, unless it is powder and it is weekend
We need more info on this COTC1882. How many of the fighters had been vaccinated? Were the better fighters unvaccinated? Had one of the fighters not previously had a fight until vaccinated? Until we get the detail it is very difficult to blame/not blame the vaccine.

;) :D
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:43 am

aggi wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:40 am
Loads of nutters on the internet, intellectual heavyweights like Lawrence Fox for instance https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1463781964226469888 For whatever reason they have, any health issue and the only response is "it's the vaccine".
Really don't understand why you want to introduce Lawrence fox into what I said, other than a strawman job.

However, it's still a fact that Israeli Ministry of Health. CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices
CNN, The American Heart Association And the WHO have all reported/or are concerned with the link between vaccines and heart problems.

As I said previously, Covid-19 causing heart issues and the vaccines causing heart issues isn't mutually exclusive .

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:54 am

Goodclaret wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:57 am
We need more info on this COTC1882. How many of the fighters had been vaccinated? Were the better fighters unvaccinated? Had one of the fighters not previously had a fight until vaccinated? Until we get the detail it is very difficult to blame/not blame the vaccine.

;) :D
:D :D

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by KRBFC » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:31 pm

joey13 wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:26 am
So does paracetamol
The difference is paracetamol has been used for 50+ years, the long term effects are clear to all. For all you know, this vaccine could knock 30 years off 50% of people's life, it hasn't stood the ultimate test yet, the test of time.

I know it's cool to be a complete sheep these days and just repeat ''well the government said so'' or ''the newspaper told me it's true''. I'd like to see with my own eyes though, I'm not anti vaccine, I've had other vaccines.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Rombald » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:35 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:31 pm
The difference is paracetamol has been used for 50+ years, the long term effects are clear to all. For all you know, this vaccine could knock 30 years off 50% of people's life, it hasn't stood the ultimate test yet, the test of time.

I know it's cool to be a complete sheep these days and just repeat ''well the government said so'' or ''the newspaper told me it's true''. I'd like to see with my own eyes though, I'm not anti vaccine, I've had other vaccines.
Or alternatively, listen to medical experts

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:41 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:31 pm
The difference is paracetamol has been used for 50+ years, the long term effects are clear to all. For all you know, this vaccine could knock 30 years off 50% of people's life, it hasn't stood the ultimate test yet, the test of time.

I know it's cool to be a complete sheep these days and just repeat ''well the government said so'' or ''the newspaper told me it's true''. I'd like to see with my own eyes though, I'm not anti vaccine, I've had other vaccines.
"I'd like to see with my own eyes though"

That would be perfectly fine, if you had the required expertise

I mean, I don't think that expertise is at "international vaccination side effect expert level"

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by KRBFC » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:50 pm

Rombald wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:35 pm
Or alternatively, listen to medical experts
or I can make my own decision and refuse the vaccine.... I'm not pretending to know more than the experts or even discrediting them, the anti vaxxers are typically a weird bunch spreading misinformation and making up wild theories, I definitely don't fall into that group.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by claret2018 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:57 pm

Lol course you don’t

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by martin_p » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:22 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:31 pm
The difference is paracetamol has been used for 50+ years, the long term effects are clear to all. For all you know, this vaccine could knock 30 years off 50% of people's life, it hasn't stood the ultimate test yet, the test of time.

I know it's cool to be a complete sheep these days and just repeat ''well the government said so'' or ''the newspaper told me it's true''. I'd like to see with my own eyes though, I'm not anti vaccine, I've had other vaccines.
You do understand that COVID wasn’t going to stand aside and wait for the vaccine to undergo ‘the test of time’ right? The issue is now, not in five or ten years time. It’s up to you whether you have the vaccine or not but if it’s people who have chosen not to be vaccinated who keep this pandemic going then you’re going to get some criticism.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Murger » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:34 pm


Loyalclaret
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Loyalclaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:41 pm

Please can you gives us a brief synopsis of what the page says?

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Murger » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:43 pm

Loyalclaret wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:41 pm
Please can you gives us a brief synopsis of what the page says?
You could always read it.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:55 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:07 am
You really don’t understand the word ‘could’, do you? Could they have just collapsed for other reasons? Yes. Could it be vaccine related? Yes. To call me stupid and a ‘wrong-un’ just because I am questioning things is just infantile. I notice further down I have been called ‘anti vax’. When you have a society that instantly shut down debate like this and make topics that taboo whereby they can’t be questioned, and you can’t be sceptical, then I’d suggest that the people who do that are that entrenched in what they’re told that they’re unable to think for themselves.

I have said I hope the people are ok, I have chosen my words very carefully to use the word ‘could’ as I don’t know and neither do you rileybobs yet you choose to ignore this.
Hi gandhisflipflop, I had a heart attack in 2016. Of course, when I was in hospital and through my cardio rehabilitation process I met a number of other people who'd also suffered heart attacks. The first words one guy on the ward said to me was "I died last Friday." It was his second heart attack and his wife found him collapsed on the bathroom floor. When the paramedics arrived they couldn't find any sign of life - but they did what they are trained to do and he was recovering in hospital.

Heart disease and heart attacks are amongst the biggest causes of death in the UK. The British Heart Foundation www.bhf.org.uk can provide all the information required to learn a lot more about heart disease and strokes, including the numbers that die each year.

Is there a link between heart attacks and covid-19? It is quite possible that deaths from heart attacks will be higher through the period of the pandemic (I don't know, I haven't looked for any data, I'm just saying it is possible). If there are more people with heart disease the most likely cause will be delays in accessing medical assistance and, possibly, delays in getting to see a GP as a result of the lockdown. However, from my experience, if you ever need to speak to a doctor and there's even a remote chance you might be suffering a heart attack you immediately become their number one priority. Since my heart attack if I've contacted my GP their response has always been "can you come in now..."

I've had my two AZ vaccines and my Pfizer booster. I feel a lot safer having had the vaccines and the booster. Are their possible adverse side-effects? Yes, on rare occasions - but we are all much safer from getting vaccinated.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:58 pm


The UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA), in partnership with the Royal College of General Practitioners (RCGP) and the Royal College of Emergency Medicine (RCEM), has produced this clinical guidance to support the detection and management of clinical cases of myocarditis and pericarditis associated with coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccination.

It is a living document and will be reviewed and updated as further data becomes available.

Background
Background to myocarditis and pericarditis after COVID-19 vaccination and guidelines:

this is a rare condition following vaccination
most patients who develop symptoms do so within a week of vaccination
most patients who develop symptoms have usually been vaccinated with a mRNA vaccine (Pfizer or Moderna)
myocarditis and pericarditis following vaccination is usually mild or stable and most patients typically recover fully without medical treatment
myocarditis – significant left ventricular (LV) fibrosis has been described in a high percentage of children admitted to hospital, with a small percentage of these having non-sustained ventricular tachycardia (VT)

no follow-up data is available yet on hospitalised patients
diagnosis of myocarditis and pericarditis should follow published international guidelines
the majority of cases appear to be mild and self-limiting; any acutely ill or unstable patients should be referred to hospital directly
the long-term consequences of this condition secondary to vaccination are yet unknown, so any screening recommendations need to be balanced against the frequency and severity of the disease with the aim to prevent complications, in particular of myocarditis (arrhythmias, long term myocardial damage or heart failure)

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Zlatan » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:59 pm

Don’t want to p!ss on your chips, or perhaps I do, but most over the counter drugs for many conditions also can cause myocarditis and pericarditis. Tell me, are you going to refuse antibiotics or paracetamol if told to take it?

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Billy Balfour » Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:01 pm

I was reading a 'stating the bleeding obvious' report yesterday. Basically, the data and conclusion said that areas with low educational attainment levels have the lowest vaccine take up rates.

It didn't need a report, though. You can see this by looking at the vaccine map.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Volvoclaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:06 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:11 am
Still not gonna put some random gunk into my body because someone else told me to.
What, like a brain cell?

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:13 pm

Loyalclaret wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:41 pm
Please can you gives us a brief synopsis of what the page says?
Ok

Its a discussion between a load of Burnley fans, none of whom are vaccine experts, about taking the vaccine

Some of them think they are experts because they use Dr Google

Everybody else is desperately trying not to tell them that they are f**king insane because they use Dr Google when thousands of experts are telling everyone that its safer than catching the actual disease

That help?
This user liked this post: Volvoclaret

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:23 pm

For context btw before anyone gets too offended

I spent my morning taking my wifes best friend to hospital, whose immune system is completely screwed, and has spent the last twenty years in and out of hospital (end result in only having one eye and a hole in the side of her skull due to a variety of problems) and has spent the whole pandemic isolating like mad because Covid might overload her system resulting in death

Now she is a real human being, and if taking the vaccine means she can not basically be stuck in her house for the rest of her life, I'm prepared to take the vaccine

Remind me again what your reasons for not taking it are?

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Volvoclaret » Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:29 pm

Having lost my Mum and my daughter in law being on a ventilator for weeks through this virus, I'm with you all the way Lancaster.

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