Two more serious health related incidents

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bobinho
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Two more serious health related incidents

Post by bobinho » Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:57 pm

Two more tonite, games stopped/delayed due to very serious health issues in the crowd.

Hopefully those involved will be ok and make a full recovery, and hopefully there won’t be any more in the coming months…

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Herts Clarets » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:06 pm

Hope all concerned are OK. Times like this I think back to the FA Cup replay v Sheffield United in 1993. I was in the CF stand and a Blades fan was carried out of the away end clearly in a bad way. For what seemed like ages paramedics worked on him in front of the stand, a very difficult thing to see while the match was still being played. Sadly he didn't make it and died of a heart attack.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by conyoviejo » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:06 pm

The guy at the Chelsea game had a cardiac arrest,but is improving in hospital.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Sutton-Claret » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:10 pm

What happened tonight? I saw a lady and a young lad get hit with the ball... The lady seemed to be holding her nose like it was bleeding and the lad just looked upset and shocked. Was there another incident I missed?

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by gandhisflipflop » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:10 pm

Let’s not mention what could be causing it though....

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by AlargeClaret » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:12 pm

Silly thread really. There's ALWAYS occasional "serious health incidents" in crowds over most weeks,it's just that it's rarely reported except on perhaps a local level.When you have literally hundreds of thousands of people off all ages attending games every weekor more ,the length and breadth of the country,there's unfortunatley always going to be heart attacks,strokes etc. It's a fact of life.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by randomclaret2 » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:15 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:12 pm
Silly thread really. There's ALWAYS occasional "serious health incidents" in crowds over most weeks,it's just that it's rarely reported except on perhaps a local level.When you have literally hundreds of thousands of people off all ages attending games every weekor more ,the length and breadth of the country,there's unfortunatley always going to be heart attacks,strokes etc. It's a fact of life.
Exactly....all that has changed is that matches now seem to be stopped in such circumstances.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by AlargeClaret » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:18 pm

Indeed..especially when one of the "serious incidents" was a woman.i think? holding her nose? who'd been hit of the ball!

Murger
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Murger » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:21 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:18 pm
Indeed..especially when one of the "serious incidents" was a woman.i think? holding her nose? who'd been hit of the ball!
Erm no. There were 2 seperate heart related incidents. Nothing to do with someone being hit by a ball.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by bobinho » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:29 pm

Yeah random…. That’s it. That’s definitely it.

Remain open… just remain open.

I’m sure the truth will eventually come out, at some time in the distant future, when there’s no one left alone who can be sued or pursued.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Rileybobs » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:30 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:10 pm
Let’s not mention what could be causing it though....
Maybe it’s just in extremely poor taste to use the unfortunate health incidents of other people, which you know absolutely nothing about, to make a totally unsubstantiated link to the covid vaccine to push an agenda. Very tasteless, but then again unsurprising.
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bobinho
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by bobinho » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:31 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:18 pm
Indeed..especially when one of the "serious incidents" was a woman.i think? holding her nose? who'd been hit of the ball!
Wrong.

Neither of the incidents I mentioned were at our game.

I’m sure you will catch up, and eventually catch on.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Devils_Advocate » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:35 pm

What was it that they said were the two main drivers for the spread and impact of Covid

1/ a dense population
2/ a dense population

Sounds about right reading some of the views on this messageboard
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by brexit » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:36 pm

If rayner gets elected we will have a fitness to watch football test - the bob lord stand would be empty.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by gandhisflipflop » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:36 pm

Rileybobs wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:30 pm
Maybe it’s just in extremely poor taste to use the unfortunate health incidents of other people, which you know absolutely nothing about, to make a totally unsubstantiated link to the covid vaccine to push an agenda. Very tasteless, but then again unsurprising.
Call it tasteless all you want. You’re right, I don’t know anything about it, hence the word ‘could’. No agenda being driven, but if you think that it’s just a coincidence that all these cases keep happening, and it doesn’t at least make you think then you have your head firmly in the sand, which is unsurprising. I obviously want them to be okay, but how many more incidents do we need before we can at least talk about it?

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by milkcrate_mosh » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:43 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:36 pm
I don’t know anything about it
well said
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Rileybobs » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:43 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:36 pm
Call it tasteless all you want. You’re right, I don’t know anything about it, hence the word ‘could’. No agenda being driven, but if you think that it’s just a coincidence that all these cases keep happening, and it doesn’t at least make you think then you have your head firmly in the sand, which is unsurprising. I obviously want them to be okay, but how many more incidents do we need before we can at least talk about it?
You’re suggesting that the two people referred to collapsed due to having had a covid vaccination, despite not knowing whether they’ve had the covid vaccination or the details of what caused the collapse. How incredibly stupid is that.

And how crass do you have to be to jump onto unfortunate incidents like this, with absolutely no knowledge or expertise on the subject, to push your unsubstantiated misinformation. What a wrong’un.
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by bobinho » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:46 pm

None so blind…..

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Rowls » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:50 pm

I can remember a guy keeling over and dying when we beat Man Utd in 2009.

He was fairly elderly as I recall.

Seems unusual that this is happening quite so often these days. And twice in one match is especially exceptional.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by SalouClaret » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:53 pm

I stubbed my toe today and I'm fully vaccinated. Spooky!

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by ClaretAndJew » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:59 pm

Covid and the vaccine aren't even real it's just saline solution.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:00 pm

No point mentioning it.

People are firmly stuck in their ways and will only think twice if it happens to someone they know pr right in front of them.

It might not be the Vaccine but something is definitely wrong and needs looking into sharpish.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by ClaretAndJew » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:03 pm

It's definitely the vaccine. Guaranteed.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Rowls » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:09 pm

I've heard varying accounts and it's best not to jump to conclusions but certain things have made me very reticent to believe organisations I recently trusted.

I remember the BBC telling me "the taking of the knee was very well observed" at the England vs Scotland game when you could hear the volume of the boos being turned down. That felt like living in what people have described living in the Soviet Union was like.

And then there's the masks. The government advisers and the WHO were very clear on their efficacy at the start of the covid outbreak. Now they mandate them, even though the case for not wearing them is even clearer given the complete lack of correlation between states who mandate them and states who do not.

The clearest examples are the within the UK (England vs Scotland and Wales) the USA (Florida and Texas vs most other states) and Europe (England vs Germany and France in particular). When you see new prominent strains doing just as they please in terms of spreading, and note that how strictly masks are mandates has little to no discernible impact. So why are the masks being mandated?
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Rowls » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:13 pm

Of course, these figures (deaths from cardiac arrests) etc should be kept and made public so we should be able to find out and see if this is the case.

I saw some early figures not long ago that looked extremely worrying but not from a particularly reliable source. I really do fear there is a major scandal simmering under the surface with all this. Not just any potential side effects of the vaccines (there WILL be some, we know that) but with all the other non-covid illnesses and diseases which seem to have all been put aside.

The glut of information we are bombarded with these days has not made our lives any simpler. It has made them more opaque.

THIS, if ImplodingTurtle ever still reads this board, is what the "Post Truth" world was always about. Information has cast doubt where once there was clarity.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by martin_p » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:14 pm

Rowls wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:50 pm
I can remember a guy keeling over and dying when we beat Man Utd in 2009.

He was fairly elderly as I recall.

Seems unusual that this is happening quite so often these days. And twice in one match is especially exceptional.
Sad as that is I bet it didn’t get any major attention outside of Burnley.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by martin_p » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:16 pm

There’s some seriously sad and sick people on this thread. One thing the vaccines have caused without a shadow of a doubt is an increase in crass stupidity.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Rowls » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:17 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:03 pm
It's definitely the vaccine. Guaranteed.
It's definitely NOT the vaccine! Guaranteed.

It's just as silly to say this ClaretAndJew.

We're so skewed to take a binary approach to these matters. There's always that temptation to do that most human of things - to take a side.

We need to see the figures on this, and the figures won't be available for some time yet.

Here some interesting information:

"Pfizer trials end May, 2023

Moderna trials end Oct, 2022"


This info from a well known twitter account. I haven't verified the information (hence the quotation marks), but he's usually got a good track record for accuracy. I think the dates relate to how long the usual medical trials would have taken.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Rowls » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:18 pm

martin_p wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:14 pm
Sad as that is I bet it didn’t get any major attention outside of Burnley.
It was mentioned in nearly every match report.

edit - But I'm not getting into a silly yes-no interlude with you on this one martin. Goodnight, God bless.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:21 pm

I've got my 3rd jab booked for next week

Thats because I'm perfectly sane and I believe that people who are experts in the field of immunisation and virology are better bets than weirdos of the internet

But hey, its your opinion that really matters when its stuff like this isn't it?
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by KRBFC » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:21 pm

I've no idea if it's the vaccine but neither does anyone else, who knows the long term effects from injecting your body with test samples? I'm not anti vaccine, I won't be putting this stuff into my body until there's some long term data gathered and the long term effects are revealed though.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Rowls » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:22 pm

martin_p wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:16 pm
There’s some seriously sad and sick people on this thread. One thing the vaccines have caused without a shadow of a doubt is an increase in crass stupidity.
I don't think that's listed as a side effect.

It's more likely that there's something inate within us as human beings that we tend to be tribal and take sides in matters like this. It hasn't helped that there has been such an effective putsch in favour of a single policy across most of the world.

The opposition in the UK don't seem to have opposed lockdown once - they've only ever called for more lockdown ("Harder! Faster!")

That's fine if you're a lockdown supporter, you can have your lockdown hard and fast or lament it wasn't even harder, even faster.

But for those of us who are sceptical about what lockdown has achieved there has been little or no effective political representation. It's been very concerning to see our liberties stripped away without so much of a whimper.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by joey13 » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:23 pm

I take it the anti vax idiots posting on here do realise having/had Covid 19 has an adverse affect on the heart

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by joey13 » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:25 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:21 pm
I've no idea if it's the vaccine but neither does anyone else, who knows the long term effects from injecting your body with test samples? I'm not anti vaccine, I won't be putting this stuff into my body until there's some long term data gathered and the long term effects are revealed though.
While prolonging the pandemic, brilliant 👍

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by CombatClaret » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:28 pm

It's nice to see consistency. The loonies in this thread are usually the loonies in threads about every other issue of the day.
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by milkcrate_mosh » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:30 pm

Rowls wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:17 pm
It's definitely NOT the vaccine! Guaranteed.

It's just as silly to say this ClaretAndJew.
Considering that no-one has demonstrated

1) there has actually been an increase in ooh cardiac arrests in the UK (usually about 30,000 a year)
2) the vaccinations status of the individuals that have needed medical assistance at a football match recently

Then portraying this as a situation where "the truth is probably somewhere in the middle" is just ceding ground to conspiracy theorists surely? Without any evidence of the phenomenon they're talking about actually exists why should people take it seriously? There's certainly nothing in the trial data to suggest an increase in unexplained cardiac events.

All cause mortality is published weekly in the UK, it shows very clear spikes in keeping with COVID waves but I'd challenge anyone to show any changes with a temporal relationship with the vaccine rollout.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Rowls » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:30 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:21 pm
I've got my 3rd jab booked for next week

Thats because I'm perfectly sane and I believe that people who are experts in the field of immunisation and virology are better bets than weirdos of the internet

But hey, its your opinion that really matters when its stuff like this isn't it?
I think you're in the age group that will benefit Lancaster and I'm happy my parents have had their boosters.*

I'm appalled that the government pressed ahead with vaccines for children against the advice of their own scientists.

For each and every demographic (age, weight, previous medical history, etc) there is a potential risk and a potential reward from the vaccine. We know that it provides good assistance in preventing serious illness from the virus and it also helps somewhat in lowering transmission (though apparently not effectively against new variants).

We also know that children are at a statistically negligent risk, young people likewise and that slim people are far more likely to shrug off the virus than the overweigh or obese.

The long term side effects of the vaccine are unknown but there are plenty of side effects that ARE known and we should all, as individuals, be permitted to make our decision with informed consent.

It is not a case of taking your advice from "scientists" or "weirdos of the internet" - it is a case of weighing the relevant risk and reward. Even for demographics for whom scientists recommend mass immunisation, there will be people for whom the side effects of the vaccine will end up worse than the virus.

We can have this debate openly and honestly or we can simply railroad it which certainly will push people more towards "weirdos on the internet".

Or we can just do away with centuries of human rights and bodily autonomy and make vaccine mandatory (threatened in German and Austria, set to go ahead in Greeze) or make it illegal for unvaccinated to make a living (Italy).

Make no mistake, there are serious issues here and if we take a wrong step in the wrong direction, who knows where society will end up?

Turning this debate into a tribal culture war issue won't help anybody.

* I've re read that and I didn't mean it to sound cheeky. I *think* you're around 55-65!
Last edited by Rowls on Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by martin_p » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:32 pm

Rowls wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:22 pm
I don't think that's listed as a side effect.

It's more likely that there's something inate within us as human beings that we tend to be tribal and take sides in matters like this. It hasn't helped that there has been such an effective putsch in favour of a single policy across most of the world.

The opposition in the UK don't seem to have opposed lockdown once - they've only ever called for more lockdown ("Harder! Faster!")

That's fine if you're a lockdown supporter, you can have your lockdown hard and fast or lament it wasn't even harder, even faster.

But for those of us who are sceptical about what lockdown has achieved there has been little or no effective political representation. It's been very concerning to see our liberties stripped away without so much of a whimper.
You can think what you want about vaccines, but mentioning it every time someone has a heart problem given that heart disease has been a major cause of hospitalisation and loss of life for more years than I care to remember is crass stupidity.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Rowls » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:35 pm

martin_p wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:32 pm
You can think what you want about vaccines, but mentioning it every time someone has a heart problem given that heart disease has been a major cause of hospitalisation and loss of life for more years than I care to remember is crass stupidity.
Like it or not martin, these cases have become very frequent.

It could be a coincidence. It could be nothing.

Humans are always seeing patterns where there are none.

But neither you nor I are at liberty to say that this is not a possibly happening because neither of us could know with certainty at this point.

Questioning things is what we very much SHOULD be doing. It is not, as you so very wrongly assume, the same as promoting a particular side.

This is a serious question that has arisen (whether you like it or not) that we have a moral duty to answer.

Goodnight.
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by martin_p » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:38 pm

Rowls wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:35 pm
Like it or not martin, these cases have become very frequent.

It could be a coincidence. It could be nothing.
There is zero evidence of an increase in heart problems. You may perceive an increase because of the idiots who shout ‘vaccine’ every time someone has a heart flutter.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by elwaclaret » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:40 pm

People have always been taken ill at football matches. Previously they were quickly taken out of the terraces and shot.

But seriously my dad got some fantastic treatment when he tumbled down three rows of the Bob Lord head first at the Villa league cup game a few years ago. The fact that he was whipped into the medical room and everyone was there on standby probably saved his life that night… (club even sent him a video of the game)

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by Rowls » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:42 pm

martin_p wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:38 pm
There is zero evidence of an increase in heart problems. You may perceive an increase because of the idiots who shout ‘vaccine’ every time someone has a heart flutter.
As I have said, neither of us can know with certainty until the full facts emerge. Neither of us can claim there is "zero evidence" for anything right now; it takes time to collate such figures and cause and effect will need to be studied in depth.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by martin_p » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:45 pm

Rowls wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:42 pm
As I have said, neither of us can know with certainty until the full facts emerge. Neither of us can claim there is "zero evidence" for anything right now; it takes time to collate such figures and cause and effect will need to be studied in depth.
Yet you are certain ‘these cases have become more frequent’. You can’t have it both ways.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by LoveCurryPies » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:45 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:59 pm
Covid and the vaccine aren't even real it's just saline solution.
Don’t know if you are being serious.

The Covid wards and Intensive Care Units are mostly full of unvaccinated people. My daughter just finished a 22 hour shift. That’s due to staff being off with Covid or self isolating, or the overseas nurses who left after Brexit.

Keep on spreading your false claims C&J....you are part of the minority that are killing people and putting peoples lives at risk through misinformation.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by dsr » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:48 pm

Just for perspective: on average, in England, 15,000 people per day are admitted to hospital as an emergency. That is about 25 per 100,000.

Tonight, approximately 200,000 people attended PL football matches. We know that two of them required emergency admission to hospital. The expected number would be 50. Should we be concerned?
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by RingoMcCartney » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:55 pm

martin_p wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:38 pm
There is zero evidence of an increase in heart problems. You may perceive an increase because of the idiots who shout ‘vaccine’ every time someone has a heart flutter.
You say "zero evidence", however-

A link between Covid-19 vaccination and a cardiac illness may be getting clearer - CNN
https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/09/health/m ... index.html

(CNN)Vaccine advisers to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention say there has been a higher-than-expected number of cases of a heart ailment among young people, most often males, who've recently received their second doses of the Pfizer and Moderna Covid-19 vaccines.



November 22 2021, the American Heart Association.

"American Heart Association (AHA) is now warning that mRNA vaccines ‘dramatically increase the inflammation on the endothelium (inner heart membrane)’ after a new study of 566 patients found that risks of severe problems increased to 1 in 4, compared to 1 in 9 before"

diamondpocket
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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by diamondpocket » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:56 pm

Rowls wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:35 pm
Like it or not martin, these cases have become very frequent..
Please show us the data for this statement then. You have to back up VERY FREQUENT with respect to the past, 10 years let's say, that would be interesting to see the number of heart deaths in that time compared with this year with the vaccine. Remember there are how many millions who have been vaccinated, and the number of heart related deaths this year is.........? Is it that different to previous years.

I'm not doubting you, I don't know the answer to my questions. But I would like you to prove that these cases are very frequent, i.e. an anomaly is what you are saying.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by aggi » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:57 pm

It's weird how the question everything/do your own research crew never seem to come across the fact that COVID effects include increased risk of heart attacks. It suggests that they're not very good at doing their own research.

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:12 am

aggi wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:57 pm
It's weird how the question everything/do your own research crew never seem to come across the fact that COVID effects include increased risk of heart attacks. It suggests that they're not very good at doing their own research.
Who's saying Covid-19 doesn't include increased risk of heart attacks? It's the science denying "crew" that appear to not want to consider the increasing concern , from respected bodies, of the link between cardio illness and vaccines.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.


From CNN.


"The new report comes as the Israeli Ministry of Health finds a "likelihood of a link" between the second dose of the Covid-19 vaccine and myocarditis, most commonly among males ages 16 to 30.
The June 1 report by a work group of the CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices states that within 30 days of receiving the second dose of either Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, "there was a higher number of observed than expected myocarditis/pericarditis cases in 16-24-year-olds."

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Re: Two more serious health related incidents

Post by dsr » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:26 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:55 pm
November 22 2021, the American Heart Association.

"American Heart Association (AHA) is now warning that mRNA vaccines ‘dramatically increase the inflammation on the endothelium (inner heart membrane)’ after a new study of 566 patients found that risks of severe problems increased to 1 in 4, compared to 1 in 9 before"
It would be helpful to quote this in context. Because what it appears to say is that severe problems occur in 1 in 9 of the population, which is clearly nonsense. You need to define or post a link to the report if you want people to understand what it means.
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